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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 379

post #11341 of 16213
Just watched The prestige again. Don't know if I have mentioned on this thread before. But some of the scenes with the tesla machine were really really low.
post #11342 of 16213
Just finished my second viewing of PR using the DTS MA 5.1 mix and came away with a different experience. In my first post on the difference between the 7.1 and 5.1 on my 5.1 setup , I found my processor gave me more spaciousness due to the matrixing (possibly). I did something different this time around as others have reported running there subs hotter than I normally ever would, my max I ran my sub on WOTW was +6 at reference on the Master volume. Well this time I got so much impact , extension and bass variation I'm left a little speechless at the result, I kept increasing the sub level until I got scared and backed of at +11 hot at anywhere from -3 to full tilt at Master volume reference and at this point until I run some true 5 star movies like this will put PR's 3.5 to now maybe 4.5 bass up against the big boys(subjectively of course), as its overall bass balance and quantity relative to the rest of the mix is a slaughter house! and will have you batting your eyes from the impact when something gets hit! PR is indeed redeemed in my eyes as one of the top contenders for sound track of the year, it has its faults but makes up for it in many other ways.

Bone and teeth rattling stuff cool.gif but go hot! biggrin.gif
post #11343 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Just finished my second viewing of PR using the DTS MA 5.1 mix and came away with a different experience. In my first post on the difference between the 7.1 and 5.1 on my 5.1 setup , I found my processor gave me more spaciousness due to the matrixing (possibly). I did something different this time around as others have reported running there subs hotter than I normally ever would, my max I ran my sub on WOTW was +6 at reference on the Master volume. Well this time I got so much impact , extension and bass variation I'm left a little speechless at the result, I kept increasing the sub level until I got scared and backed of at +11 hot at anywhere from -3 to full tilt at Master volume reference and at this point until I run some true 5 star movies like this will put PR's 3.5 to now maybe 4.5 bass up against the big boys(subjectively of course), as its overall bass balance and quantity relative to the rest of the mix is a slaughter house! and will have you batting your eyes from the impact when something gets hit! PR is indeed redeemed in my eyes as one of the top contenders for sound track of the year, it has its faults but makes up for it in many other ways.

Bone and teeth rattling stuff cool.gif but go hot! biggrin.gif
would you mind explaining what you mean when you say running the sub hot?

"my max I ran my sub on WOTW was +6 at reference on the Master volume."?

" kept increasing the sub level until I got scared and backed of at +11 hot at anywhere from -3 to full tilt at Master volume reference"?

Sounds like hot means increasing the sub's gain or volume? Is that right?
post #11344 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmusic View Post

would you mind explaining what you mean when you say running the sub hot?

"my max I ran my sub on WOTW was +6 at reference on the Master volume."?

" kept increasing the sub level until I got scared and backed of at +11 hot at anywhere from -3 to full tilt at Master volume reference"?

Sounds like hot means increasing the sub's gain or volume? Is that right?[/quote]

Correct wink.gif If you use Auydyssey use the receiver or processor to do so, and not the gain on the back of the sub.
post #11345 of 16213
Little movie fest last night
Conjuring has some really nice LFE scenes
Digs pretty deep with some volume – nice surprise

White House down was really week – crap film as well

Also 2nd viewing of PR – I’m really disappointed in the audio mix
as was expecting/wanting so much more
Just not a quality sound design at all - a lot of undefined flabby bass
no slam ,dynamics – boring
post #11346 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Just finished my second viewing of PR using the DTS MA 5.1 mix and came away with a different experience. In my first post on the difference between the 7.1 and 5.1 on my 5.1 setup , I found my processor gave me more spaciousness due to the matrixing (possibly). I did something different this time around as others have reported running there subs hotter than I normally ever would, my max I ran my sub on WOTW was +6 at reference on the Master volume. Well this time I got so much impact , extension and bass variation I'm left a little speechless at the result, I kept increasing the sub level until I got scared and backed of at +11 hot at anywhere from -3 to full tilt at Master volume reference and at this point until I run some true 5 star movies like this will put PR's 3.5 to now maybe 4.5 bass up against the big boys(subjectively of course), as its overall bass balance and quantity relative to the rest of the mix is a slaughter house! and will have you batting your eyes from the impact when something gets hit! PR is indeed redeemed in my eyes as one of the top contenders for sound track of the year, it has its faults but makes up for it in many other ways.

Bone and teeth rattling stuff cool.gif but go hot! biggrin.gif

Audiofan,
I completely understand what your saying and completely agree.
I found PR lacked in bass for what it`s about BUT there`s nothing wrong with adding some LFE to a movie that needs it a little more.

PR definitely needs the subs run hot...and by doing so completely changes the way it feels.

I wouldn't add say +12 with OLF has the bass would overwhelm everything else and it just wouldn't sound right.
I ALWAYS adjust the sub output when watching movies.
It's unfortunate but no 2 movies sound alike or have the same amount of bass output. I adjust accordingly.

At the end of the day it's all about personal preference and I love it hot!

Enjoy.

(Superman MOS) tonight for me and after seeing some graphs on it, I'll definitely run the subs HOT!)
post #11347 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Nice, I bought that because of this thread. I also got Olympus has fallen and World War Z. Need some time with the new Submersive pair this weekend smile.gif

Keep your eye on the drywall and paint between seams
post #11348 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Just finished my second viewing of PR using the DTS MA 5.1 mix and came away with a different experience. In my first post on the difference between the 7.1 and 5.1 on my 5.1 setup , I found my processor gave me more spaciousness due to the matrixing (possibly). I did something different this time around as others have reported running there subs hotter than I normally ever would, my max I ran my sub on WOTW was +6 at reference on the Master volume. Well this time I got so much impact , extension and bass variation I'm left a little speechless at the result, I kept increasing the sub level until I got scared and backed of at +11 hot at anywhere from -3 to full tilt at Master volume reference and at this point until I run some true 5 star movies like this will put PR's 3.5 to now maybe 4.5 bass up against the big boys(subjectively of course), as its overall bass balance and quantity relative to the rest of the mix is a slaughter house! and will have you batting your eyes from the impact when something gets hit! PR is indeed redeemed in my eyes as one of the top contenders for sound track of the year, it has its faults but makes up for it in many other ways.

Bone and teeth rattling stuff cool.gif but go hot! biggrin.gif

I understand running subs hot, as I've done it plenty of times. But I take issue with a couple points. Even running it 30 dbs hot won't change the extension one bit. Secondly, you can't really give it kudos for "bass balance" when you've completely changed the balance by running it very hot.

That said, whatever it takes for you to enjoy it more is fine. But that shouldn't change it from what you initially saw as a 3.5. star movie. If you run all other movies just as hot, it would relegate PR back down to your original rating, would it not?
post #11349 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

I understand running subs hot, as I've done it plenty of times. But I take issue with a couple points. Even running it 30 dbs hot won't change the extension one bit. Secondly, you can't really give it kudos for "bass balance" when you've completely changed the balance by running it very hot.

That said, whatever it takes for you to enjoy it more is fine. But that shouldn't change it from what you initially saw as a 3.5. star movie. If you run all other movies just as hot, it would relegate PR back down to your original rating, would it not?

Damn us logical thinkers!! Stealing his mojo!
post #11350 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

I understand running subs hot, as I've done it plenty of times. But I take issue with a couple points. Even running it 30 dbs hot won't change the extension one bit. Secondly, you can't really give it kudos for "bass balance" when you've completely changed the balance by running it very hot.

That said, whatever it takes for you to enjoy it more is fine. But that shouldn't change it from what you initially saw as a 3.5. star movie. If you run all other movies just as hot, it would relegate PR back down to your original rating, would it not?
I was wondering when somebody else on this thread would acknowledge this. Thx.
post #11351 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

I understand running subs hot, as I've done it plenty of times. But I take issue with a couple points. Even running it 30 dbs hot won't change the extension one bit. Secondly, you can't really give it kudos for "bass balance" when you've completely changed the balance by running it very hot.

That said, whatever it takes for you to enjoy it more is fine. But that shouldn't change it from what you initially saw as a 3.5. star movie. If you run all other movies just as hot, it would relegate PR back down to your original rating, would it not?

exactly! running the sub hotter does not increase extension. That was my main complaint with this movie, it was missing an octave. Unless one has a sub system that can play reference below 20hz they have no idea what they were missing and probably think PR had good bass.
post #11352 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

I understand running subs hot, as I've done it plenty of times. But I take issue with a couple points. Even running it 30 dbs hot won't change the extension one bit. Secondly, you can't really give it kudos for "bass balance" when you've completely changed the balance by running it very hot.

That said, whatever it takes for you to enjoy it more is fine. But that shouldn't change it from what you initially saw as a 3.5. star movie. If you run all other movies just as hot, it would relegate PR back down to your original rating, would it not?


+1 exactly!
post #11353 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Sutliff View Post

Just watached this is the end. I thought the bass was terrific. Really enjoyed it

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmusic View Post

Same here. Absolute loved Pacific Rim! I hope there is a part 2!

what kind of subs do you guys have?
post #11354 of 16213
OHF came in yesterday so I just had to watch it before I went to bed. Wow eek.gif The monument scene is off the charts! There's quite a few other scenes that feel like they reach down low too. It was fairly entertaining too; like Die Hard in the White House. biggrin.gif
post #11355 of 16213
I need to go back and watch OHF and WWZ on my main system. I know the monument scene, but does anyone know the approximate time stamp for the grenade scene in WWZ?
post #11356 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

I need to go back and watch OHF and WWZ on my main system. I know the monument scene, but does anyone know the approximate time stamp for the grenade scene in WWZ?

dont quote me but I think its around 1:15.
post #11357 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

I need to go back and watch OHF and WWZ on my main system. I know the monument scene, but does anyone know the approximate time stamp for the grenade scene in WWZ?

It is 1 hour, 5 minutes, 23 seconds in, and thats the first of the 2 grenades thrown, the second big one is only a few seconds after that. wink.gif

Then about 1:07:00 or so is another fairly nice bass scene with a chopper.

I bookmarked the scenes because they are so awesome. biggrin.gif
post #11358 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

It is 1 hour, 5 minutes, 23 seconds in, and thats the first of the 2 grenades thrown, the second big one is only a few seconds after that. wink.gif

Then about 1:07:00 or so is another fairly nice bass scene with a chopper.

I bookmarked the scenes because they are so awesome. biggrin.gif

Thanks bass and sling smile.gif
post #11359 of 16213
I had some friends over last night, we watched Pacific Rim, its a fun movie and a decent waste of time, Charlie Hunnam is the worst actor to come along since Nic Cage, but the 3D was pretty awesome. I do agree the bass is really just about all the same frequency, nothing really low that I could tell. But there sure is plenty of it.

Then we watched the new Total Recall, does anybody else remember having audio/video sync issues with Total Recall? I can handle it when the audio is "slightly" out of sync, but about halfway through that movie it was like watching old Japanese Kung Fu movies, I bet it was off by nearly a full second. I played it on a PS3 Slim, and an Oppo 103 and it was even worse on the PS3.
I wonder if I have a bad bluray or if I have some settings wrong in something somewhere. Should I be letting the Onkyo 818 do the sound processing, or the Oppo?
I have noticed it several other times where the audio will be perfectly in sync, then in other scenes of the same movie it is slightly out, what the heck causes that? Is it the HDMI cable that goes to my projector? its a 25 footer, and its just a half decent one. I dont buy the ridiculously expensive cables for anything because I know its all snake oil. What can I do to test to see what the problem is?

/rant ON

This is a pet peeve of mine, it seems that manufacturers are so overzealous to make a product that has a zillion options, (most of them are pointless) that they fail to realize we dont need every component in our system to be able to control every single aspect, I just want ONE component to be the control for everything, I dont want to have to be worried that there are 4 different components in the chain that are all modifying the sound or video and I have to change the settings in each one. One is set to bitstream, one is set to PCM yadda yadda yadda and if This is set to This, and That is set to That youre not getting the Other. I guess this is the price we pay for mixing different manufacturers of our components?

Anyways /rant OFF

tongue.gif
post #11360 of 16213
No sync problems with Total Recall here. Using an Oppo BDP 95 which is doing the decoding and sending the signal via single ended cables to the Parasound C-2 controller which I have set to analog bypass. I have had problems with a few discs a few FW updates ago and found that if I stopped the movie, ejected the disc, powered down the player, re-start the player, re-inserted the disc and taking up where I had left off usually solved the problem. But again that was a few FW updates back and haven't had a problem in quite some time.
Edited by Torqdog - 10/19/13 at 9:31am
post #11361 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

exactly! running the sub hotter does not increase extension. That was my main complaint with this movie, it was missing an octave. Unless one has a sub system that can play reference below 20hz they have no idea what they were missing and probably think PR had good bass.


I am strong down to the low teens with my 4 subs and my BKs hit single digits and I thought PR was a great overall LFE experience. Certainly not perfect mainly due to lack of extension which as I mentioned is obvious especially putting in something right after that does have better extension like I reported doing with Triangle the other night, but still one great LFE ride overall even if not as good as it could have been. I personally did not have a problem with the variety element here for whatever reason as I thought what they did worked well considering the film. What I liked about this LFE track is the bass hit in all the right spots and it hit with appropriate level/impact. Throw in the fact that the movie is just LOADED with the bass that is there and this is still one FUN LFE ride overall warts and all.

So overall, I don't think PR had "good" bass, I think it had great bass relative to the on screen action and I would give it a solid 4 easily, maybe 4.5. Put the missing extension in there which unfortunately we cant do, and this would be a 5 star overall IMO.

I certainly respect that a lot of you don't feel as strongly about this one though due to the lack of extension and for those who feel the variety was an issue, but it worked for me overall. Throw in some kick ass 3d and this is probably the most fun overall HT ride I have taken this year. cool.gif
post #11362 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Just finished my second viewing of PR using the DTS MA 5.1 mix and came away with a different experience. In my first post on the difference between the 7.1 and 5.1 on my 5.1 setup , I found my processor gave me more spaciousness due to the matrixing (possibly). I did something different this time around as others have reported running there subs hotter than I normally ever would, my max I ran my sub on WOTW was +6 at reference on the Master volume. Well this time I got so much impact , extension and bass variation I'm left a little speechless at the result, I kept increasing the sub level until I got scared and backed of at +11 hot at anywhere from -3 to full tilt at Master volume reference and at this point until I run some true 5 star movies like this will put PR's 3.5 to now maybe 4.5 bass up against the big boys(subjectively of course), as its overall bass balance and quantity relative to the rest of the mix is a slaughter house! and will have you batting your eyes from the impact when something gets hit! PR is indeed redeemed in my eyes as one of the top contenders for sound track of the year, it has its faults but makes up for it in many other ways.

Bone and teeth rattling stuff cool.gif but go hot! biggrin.gif

I understand running subs hot, as I've done it plenty of times. But I take issue with a couple points. Even running it 30 dbs hot won't change the extension one bit. Secondly, you can't really give it kudos for "bass balance" when you've completely changed the balance by running it very hot.

That said, whatever it takes for you to enjoy it more is fine. But that shouldn't change it from what you initially saw as a 3.5. star movie. If you run all other movies just as hot, it would relegate PR back down to your original rating, would it not?

Thanks, wth718, you're completely right.

audiofan1, as said by others, your issues with the mix are not resolved by turning it up to 11, though they may have resolved your issues with its entertainment value. Unfortunately, the mix is still the same mix. What I'm curious about here is that you only have a 5.1 sound system, yet you initially found the 7.1 track to have better imaging and spaciousness? That makes very little sense. Are you now saying that the extra 2 channels from the 7.1 track added something that was missing the first time you tried the comparison with the 5.1 track, but the second time you ran the 5.1 track it sounded even better because of the extra bass?

I think this is an issue of your audio memory. From research, we know that audio memory is typically pretty bad - no more than 15-20 seconds of "total recall" until the memory is lost forever. I think your subjective comments, while valid as they're your opinion, are pretty inconsistent and not generalizable. This doesn't really even regard the stuff you said about extension and bass variation seemingly changing after you "turned it up to 11." As wth718 correctly noted, that's just not possible - the mix didn't change; your listening environment's variables did.

I think what's really going on here is that you're perfect anecdotal proof of the research that says louder is almost always regarded as "better sounding" when comparing the same content. There's no problem with you liking things a certain way and manipulating your system to meet your own needs, of course. Perhaps, if you took measurements of your system's frequency response we could begin to deduce what's going on with your system and recommend how to improve it so you could find a way to enjoy your content with a flat frequency response, as it was mixed, so your ratings of content were truly "apples-to-apples," at least within your own ratings. wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

I need to go back and watch OHF and WWZ on my main system. I know the monument scene, but does anyone know the approximate time stamp for the grenade scene in WWZ?

I think this has been answered before, and as much as this thread and its predecessor have been a great resource for the last few years, I want to recommend you bookmark another site for future questions of that sort of thing:

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/12-the-low-frequency-content-thread-films-games-music-etc/

Most content you'll inquire about has been measured there, with graphs and timestamps of said content. It'll likely become an invaluable resource for reference material regarding bass in movies, as it's pretty well-organized and not 5000 pages long like this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

Then we watched the new Total Recall, does anybody else remember having audio/video sync issues with Total Recall? I can handle it when the audio is "slightly" out of sync, but about halfway through that movie it was like watching old Japanese Kung Fu movies, I bet it was off by nearly a full second. I played it on a PS3 Slim, and an Oppo 103 and it was even worse on the PS3.
I wonder if I have a bad bluray or if I have some settings wrong in something somewhere. Should I be letting the Onkyo 818 do the sound processing, or the Oppo?
I have noticed it several other times where the audio will be perfectly in sync, then in other scenes of the same movie it is slightly out, what the heck causes that? Is it the HDMI cable that goes to my projector? its a 25 footer, and its just a half decent one. I dont buy the ridiculously expensive cables for anything because I know its all snake oil. What can I do to test to see what the problem is?

Sorry, never experienced any of that sort of problems with Total Recall on my system.
post #11363 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

I understand running subs hot, as I've done it plenty of times. But I take issue with a couple points. Even running it 30 dbs hot won't change the extension one bit. Secondly, you can't really give it kudos for "bass balance" when you've completely changed the balance by running it very hot.

That said, whatever it takes for you to enjoy it more is fine. But that shouldn't change it from what you initially saw as a 3.5. star movie. If you run all other movies just as hot, it would relegate PR back down to your original rating, would it not?


Great points and I certainly agree. I run my subs hot below about 50hz, but I run them this exact same way for every movie so they all have the same advantage in this regard which gives the comparisons relevance.
post #11364 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Throw in some kick ass 3d
Kick-Ass comes in 3-D? LOL
post #11365 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Kick-Ass comes in 3-D? LOL

How about throw in some Titanic 3d? biggrin.gif
post #11366 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

I understand running subs hot, as I've done it plenty of times. But I take issue with a couple points. Even running it 30 dbs hot won't change the extension one bit. Secondly, you can't really give it kudos for "bass balance" when you've completely changed the balance by running it very hot.

That said, whatever it takes for you to enjoy it more is fine. But that shouldn't change it from what you initially saw as a 3.5. star movie. If you run all other movies just as hot, it would relegate PR back down to your original rating, would it not?

As the poster you comment on mentions bumping the SW trim to +11dB, I wanted to add:

If your master volume level is anywhere near 0dBRL and you bump the SW trim to +11dB, you're over driving the SW system.

After having measured various AVR and PrePro SW out signals with worst case scenario discs, voltage out can easily hit >10v and the signal is most likely clipping at the peaks and over driving your sub amplifier.

I wish people would attach data to these sorts of comments like "run it 'x'dB hot and all is well", or "WOTW @ +6dB hot is awesome", etc. Any data would do, even if it were just an uncorrected RS SPL meter peak reading of a scene showing that the peak is indeed rising equal to the sub trim or MVL increase with no compression.

The correct method is to carefully match your SW out signal to your sub amps input sensitivity and, after calibration, if you wish to run the sub hot, do it with the SW amps gain attenuator knob. Once you lazily use the AVR SW trim to run hot, you change the whole system playback dynamic. If the sub amps limiters kick in and the amp is boosting a clipped signal, that most certainly does not describe a "no problems" scenario.

As far as filtering the low end to allow headroom to boost the low freq effects during the re-recording mix process goes, this is purely for loudness in cinemas. We can always bump the level of the low end to our liking, as you noted, if we prefer a bumped low end, but we can't add 3 missing octaves.

Folks say (and it really started to heat up with Avengers) "Who cares if it was filtered, it's still 'A' quality sound. Only the ULF fanatics say otherwise, which is ridiculous...", etc, etc. They're like frogs in the water that's slowly heating up. They don't see the trend and won't complain until the low end has been neutered to the point of not even needing a subwoofer and loudness wars have resulted in clipping and dynamic range of 5dB being the norm, just like the recorded music industry has devolved into.

There are several effects in PR that originally went to single digits, before being filtered. Even with the filter, you can clearly see them if running accurate measurement hardware into SpecLab in real time while watching the movie. Had they left those several effects in with full bandwidth, the sound would have instantly jumped to world class. Those would have been the scenes and timestamps folks would be talking about (notice how there are no specific "Pods Emerge" or "Grenade" scenes being mentioned for PR?). That's my opinion, FWIW, YMMV.
post #11367 of 16213
In other words just because you pour syrup on s**t don't make it pancakes!eek.gif
post #11368 of 16213
Why is it preferable to change the sub's level by turning its gain dial rather than by changing the LFE channel level at the processor?
post #11369 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I am strong down to the low teens with my 4 subs and my BKs hit single digits and I thought PR was a great overall LFE experience. Certainly not perfect mainly due to lack of extension which as I mentioned is obvious especially putting in something right after that does have better extension like I reported doing with Triangle the other night, but still one great LFE ride overall even if not as good as it could have been. I personally did not have a problem with the variety element here for whatever reason as I thought what they did worked well considering the film. What I liked about this LFE track is the bass hit in all the right spots and it hit with appropriate level/impact. Throw in the fact that the movie is just LOADED with the bass that is there and this is still one FUN LFE ride overall warts and all.

So overall, I don't think PR had "good" bass, I think it had great bass relative to the on screen action and I would give it a solid 4 easily, maybe 4.5. Put the missing extension in there which unfortunately we cant do, and this would be a 5 star overall IMO.

I certainly respect that a lot of you don't feel as strongly about this one though due to the lack of extension and for those who feel the variety was an issue, but it worked for me overall. Throw in some kick ass 3d and this is probably the most fun overall HT ride I have taken this year. cool.gif

I agree if PR was not nutered it would be 5 star. There is a scene towards the end of the movie that tried to dig deep but you can tell it gets neutered. I need to watch it again to remember that part.
post #11370 of 16213
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I agree if PR was not nutered it would be 5 star. There is a scene towards the end of the movie that tried to dig deep but you can tell it gets neutered. I need to watch it again to remember that part.


Agreed. I noticed this quite a few times like the scene at the end that you mention and it also seemed like the Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
sonic wave that the monster blasted out that knocked out all the power in the fight about half way through the film out in the water before they fought in the city
wanted to dig deep, but got cut off. There were some moments in that Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
flashback sequence with the girl
as well that seemed to want to dig deeper.
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