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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 458

post #13711 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post

ya know tho, i do get a cool effect during "fn irene"...but i'm sure nuthin' like da big boys

We get down to 11Hz before the graph turns into a falling stone and we have the BHD blu-ray for our viewing so I'm hopping we can enjoy that scene at full reference level play.
post #13712 of 16109
Except real helicopters produce single digits. A real door slamming on a car does too. Has pop measured his near field subs alone? Usually near field sealed subs can't get low frequencies, pounds 20hz and above though. He is also on concrete which does not help.
post #13713 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post
 
80 Hz 12/24 is the "THX" crossover. It's designed for use with THX speakers and subs. It only works correctly with speakers designed to THX specifications.

Here's how it works: THX-type speakers have a -3 dB point of 80 Hz and they're sealed so they have a 12 dB/octave roll-off below their F3. Combine those speakers with a 12 dB/octave LPF and you get a *combined* 24 dB in-room roll-off of the speakers. Mate those speakers to a subwoofer that can extend up to 160 Hz, (one octave above 80 Hz), and then add a 24 dB/octave HPF to it, you get a true Linkwitz-Riley 24/24 (4th order), crossover. This crossover is known to be free from phase shift: http://www.rane.com/note160.html

As I said, this crossover only works correctly with speakers designed to the THX specification. A speaker with a lower or higher F3 won't roll off at the right point for this crossover. A ported speaker will roll off at 24 dB/octave below port tune, and port tune will likely not be 80 Hz. With non-THX design speakers, the crossover frequency and slope is a crapshoot. It would be nice if receivers had not only adjustable crossover frequencies, but also adjustable slopes, so the ideal combination of frequency and slope could be selected.

Please don't take this to mean that THX spec'd speakers are required to get good sound. Certainly non-THX speakers can be used for "good" sound. Even THX doesn't get THX speakers right. There are a number of THX certified speakers that don't actually hit the spec. Klipsch THX speakers have an F3 of 48 Hz and they're ported. The Crystal Acoustics THX Ultra2 speakers have an F3 of 33 Hz and are dual ported. The Atlantic Technology 8200e's have a -3 dB of 60 Hz, (although they are a sealed design.) Bottom line, even THX doesn't "certify" speakers that actually *use* their spec.

Craig

Edit: F# to F3

 

Hey Craig... you seem to have a very good grasp of this, and I know from previous experience that you have the ability to explain complex things clearly and lucidly. So I wonder if you can shed any light on something that has intrigued me for some time. It is a little OT for this thread, even though it involves subwoofers, so if you feel it is more appropriate answered elsewhere, please redirect me.

 

As you may know I have a full set of THX Ultra 2 speakers - the sealed MK S150s for LCR, the tripole SS150T for surround and the new M7 for heights. I dont have a THX spec sub as you know, but I do have the very capable dual Submersive F2s.

 

In my Onkyo 5509, which is also THX Ultra 2 certified, I can set crossovers for the satellites to 80Hz and THX comes up in brackets indicating that the AVR is going to use the appropriate XO slopes.

 

Also on the AVR, there is a setting which asks me if I have a THX sub. I have always set this to NO because, well, I don't. I assume from reading the last few posts that setting this to YES changes some characteristics of the sub crossovers, but I have no real idea of what.

 

Currently, I am using a XO of 100Hz for the LCR and 120Hz for the surrounds and heights. Mark Seaton recommended I do this and I have never questioned Mark's advice and nor would I. But personally, I am equally comfortable with 80Hz for the LCR.

 

Question is - should I leave things as they are or are there benefits to changing the XOs to 80Hz (THX) and setting the sub to YES for 'do you have a THX sub?'?

 

Max - if you are interested in adding to this too, I would, as always, welcome your input.

 

Thanks guys.

 

Craig, I know you like graphs of the LF response <g> so thought you may care to see my latest. I am using XT32/Pro and 3 channels of PEQ filtration 'on top' by way of my Behringer Feedback Destroyer.

 

I am not sure I can improve on this but I would still love to hear your thoughts on the THX business. 

 

 

 

Best,

 

Keith

post #13714 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpitz View Post

I see. I read somewhere that wides are preferred over highs since there is more content on the x-axis vs the y.axis... so the sound should be 'richer'...

In theory, yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post

Maybe, but there's a lot of factors involved as to which setup would work better in your system. My setup already does a pretty good job of creating phantom images in between the mains and side surround so I don't even know if I'd bother even if I had a spot in my room to put them.

I went with height because when I went to 7.1 the soundstage the surround were throwing off was absolutely massive and making the front seem small by comparison.

This is the money answer. Room treatments, size, layout, etc, will all contribute to whether heights or wides are more beneficial in your room. I have a narrower room with 9' ceilings and I found heights to improve the overall sound stage better than wides. My TD15's also throw a really good image as it is, so the wides weren't as beneficial as a speaker that has a more collapsed sound stage.
post #13715 of 16109
i wasn't gonna admit this, but what the hell...


last week i watched star trek into darkness for the first time..i know, kinda late

anyway, i wasn't impressed at all with PQ and soundtrack was OK, nuthin' special...i got outa my chair, went to remove the disc while credits were rolling and noticed my processor displayed DD5.1...what the...? i knew this was a 7.1 disc


i had watched the DVD of the entire movie...

yes...i felt like a pud
post #13716 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post

i wasn't gonna admit this, but what the hell...


last week i watched star trek into darkness for the first time..i know, kinda late

anyway, i wasn't impressed at all with PQ and soundtrack was OK, nuthin' special...i got outa my chair, went to remove the disc while credits were rolling and noticed my processor displayed DD5.1...what the...? i knew this was a 7.1 disc


i had watched the DVD of the entire movie...

yes...i felt like a pud

If it makes you feel better I did the same thing. Fortunately, I found out only 20 minutes into it.
post #13717 of 16109
Metallica Through the Never – DTS MA

I’ll make this one simple
If even a fan at all – go pick up the disc
Clear the house – grap some brewskies
turn the dial up and enjoy
Low end on this is so gooooooooooood
Pounds and extremely tight
hugh soundstage with depth
Highly recommended
post #13718 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post

Metallica Through the Never – DTS MA

I’ll make this one simple
If even a fan at all – go pick up the disc
Clear the house – grap some brewskies
turn the dial up and enjoy
Low end on this is so gooooooooooood
Pounds and extremely tight
hugh soundstage with depth
Highly recommended

I have watched it 2+ times already and agree it sounds great. How about that intro before "One"? eek.gif Solid 3d as well. Music I always use a flat response EQ preset on my SMS, but I had to watch this one a second time with my house curve and BKs on (I almost always turn them off for music) just to take in the various effects with a bit more impact. It was an awesome experience both ways, but the music was definitely a bit tighter with my flat response which is to be expected of course.

My big gripe with this disc after a few watches now is that there is no concert only option which would have been fantastic and was part of the original plan, but got scrapped. Was also a bit annoyed that they did not hone in on Hammett more during his blistering guitar work. Still a great disc, but a concert only option would have really pumped up the replay value for me.

As far as live shows go though, I thought the recording/mix was excellent. Awesome low end as you mention which is crucial IMO with live music (why cant Rush ever get this right?????).
Edited by Toe - 2/1/14 at 4:19pm
post #13719 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I have watched it 2+ times already and agree it sounds great. How about that intro before "One"? eek.gif Solid 3d as well.
Watched it last night although I couldn't crank it cause the whole house was asleep. But I can tell the bass hits hard. And they sound incredible!! That intro was so sick!! Looked like actual bullets

Also I agree the 3d was outstanding. Some of the best I've seen. Just wish they included a 2d disc.
post #13720 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Don't kid yourself, there is nothing to the big boys on the Irene scene, from anything I've experienced and that includes pretty much the best this forum has to offer.

This is obviously a VERY subjective post - but to me the ultra low subsonic frequency chase is for naught.

Since a demo session with sixteen 18" subwoofers in a 1,500 cubic foot room didn't do it for me - - I'm personally not going to worry about pursuing the very lowest frequencies. That system was my litmus test. A very nice system indeed, but still the audible bass frequencies are much more impressive and present - even in the tracks meant to showcase the subsonic stuff. We did some DSP testing on different ULF clips at popalocks and when the sub 14hz stuff was absent I didn't give a toot. When we tested with only stuff below 14hz and a low pass filter removing everything above 14hz - it just wasn't anything to swoon about on any of the media. The cool thing was the sixteen subs and the acoustic energy they could produce - moving pantlegs, shaking walls, moving grocery bags in the next room, shaking doors like something paranormal, etc --- least of which was the subsonic ULF demos.

A helicopter sounds way better/more impressive in something like the movie Drive underpass scene where the bass frequency isn't even loaded at the lowest hz level.

With due respect, please stop saying "chase". There's nothing to chase. Build the system for accuracy and the full BW playback is there. Simple to build and less expensive than your next projector. And, no one needs 16X18" to achieve it. cool.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post

Too bad this thread has derailed so much - barely see one movie observation a page now
lets actually watch some movies and tell us what you thought of the audio - Cheers

Absolutely agree. Haven't seen a SL cap for ages, though it certainly has been a slow period for good ST releases.

I haven't caught it if it's been discussed, so I thought I'd comment on the latest DTS logo. I call it the 'splat' logo and it certainly packs a wallop.



I forget what movie I recently watched which this logo preceded, but it was unexpected and was encoded pretty hot... kicked my a$$. biggrin.gif

I imagined it would trigger protection circuitry in most systems, so I wondered why it hasn't been discussed (again, sorry if it was and I missed it).
post #13721 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Watched it last night although I couldn't crank it cause the whole house was asleep. But I can tell the bass hits hard. And they sound incredible!! That intro was so sick!! Looked like actual bullets

Also I agree the 3d was outstanding. Some of the best I've seen. Just wish they included a 2d disc.

No doubt! The bullet effect was amazing.

Agree about the 2d disc, but you should be able to just force the 2d by turning off 3d support (first get the disc running in 3d) in either your TV, blu player, video processor, etc.....in my setup, I can just go into my output menu on my Lumagen mini VP once the disc is playing in 3d and disable 3d which will give just the left or right stream for 2d. Of course this won't work unless your full chain is 3d compatible (won't work on a non 3d display). Having said that, 3d is clearly the way to go for this one IMO after sampling both.
post #13722 of 16109
While we are on the topic of music, I don't know if there are any Grateful Dead fans here, but I ran down a rare copy of the DVD-A version of American Beauty in 96/24 5.1 and listened to it yesterday..................BLEW MY MIND!!! eek.gif This is the 4th time I have purchased this album over the years and I have listened to it countless times and know it like the back of my hand and it really was like hearing it for the first time yesterday. The detail, clarity, separation, THE BASS (was not expecting this!) was all just amazing. Reason I mention it here is I was pleasantly surprised how powerful and detailed the bass was in particular on the kick drum and Phil Leshe's bass guitar. It was absolutely perfect on my flat response with no bump in level and again, it put the album in a whole new light. Mickey Hart mixed both this and Workingmans Dead in 2003 IIRC, but both have been discontinued and are a bit hard to come by (and a bit pricey because of it), but if there are any Heads here, I cant recommend AB on DVD-A enough and I have since ran down a copy of Workingmans Dead and have that on the way as well. WELL worth the money!
post #13723 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I have watched it 2+ times already and agree it sounds great. How about that intro before "One"? eek.gif Solid 3d as well. Music I always use a flat response EQ preset on my SMS, but I had to watch this one a second time with my house curve and BKs on (I almost always turn them off for music) just to take in the various effects with a bit more impact. It was an awesome experience both ways, but the music was definitely a bit tighter with my flat response which is to be expected of course.

My big gripe with this disc after a few watches now is that there is no concert only option which would have been fantastic and was part of the original plan, but got scrapped. Was also a bit annoyed that they did not hone in on Hammett more during his blistering guitar work. Still a great disc, but a concert only option would have really pumped up the replay value for me.

As far as live shows go though, I thought the recording/mix was excellent. Awesome low end as you mention which is crucial IMO with live music (why cant Rush ever get this right?????).

I was thinking the same thing after I watched it - concert only would have been nice option for 2nd disc -
as so rare to get that kind of weight in any audio recordings -
having 2.35 ratio pretty sweet also - sadly not a fan of 3d but glad was well done for the ones who are
post #13724 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Watched it last night although I couldn't crank it cause the whole house was asleep. But I can tell the bass hits hard. And they sound incredible!! That intro was so sick!! Looked like actual bullets

Also I agree the 3d was outstanding. Some of the best I've seen. Just wish they included a 2d disc.

I saw the trailer and I want to see it. And I am not a fan of rock music.
post #13725 of 16109
rolleyes.gif Thanks alot guys mad.gif I just got back from picking up "Rush" stupid 9hz ! biggrin.gif
post #13726 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

rolleyes.gif Thanks alot guys mad.gif I just got back from picking up "Rush" stupid 9hz ! biggrin.gif

Very good movie though.
post #13727 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post

I was thinking the same thing after I watched it - concert only would have been nice option for 2nd disc -
as so rare to get that kind of weight in any audio recordings -
having 2.35 ratio pretty sweet also - sadly not a fan of 3d but glad was well done for the ones who are

No doubt! The weight really was awesome and wish we got this more with live recordings in particular. I love when I get the feeling like I got on this Metallica show that I could actually turn the bass down a notch since it is almost always the opposite. Very well recorded/mixed show!

Agreed on the 2.35 ratio as this was a rare treat for a concert that was a nice bonus on my 2.35 screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bori View Post

I saw the trailer and I want to see it. And I am not a fan of rock music.

It's fascinating from a production standpoint alone IMO. I read in the Metallica forum for this movie that it cost 30m to make which is insane for a concert film! eek.gif
post #13728 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I have watched it 2+ times already and agree it sounds great. How about that intro before "One"? eek.gif Solid 3d as well. Music I always use a flat response EQ preset on my SMS, but I had to watch this one a second time with my house curve and BKs on (I almost always turn them off for music) just to take in the various effects with a bit more impact. It was an awesome experience both ways, but the music was definitely a bit tighter with my flat response which is to be expected of course.

My big gripe with this disc after a few watches now is that there is no concert only option which would have been fantastic and was part of the original plan, but got scrapped. Was also a bit annoyed that they did not hone in on Hammett more during his blistering guitar work. Still a great disc, but a concert only option would have really pumped up the replay value for me.

As far as live shows go though, I thought the recording/mix was excellent. Awesome low end as you mention which is crucial IMO with live music (why cant Rush ever get this right?????).
That's a damned good question. I have every concert blu they've put out and the sound is subpar on all of them.....some worse than others. When I read some of the reviews for their latest concert blu release and how it is even worse than before, I decided to pass. With all that money they have, why can't they get it right?!!!
I just recently picked up Muse, "Live at Rome Olympic Stadium" and even though there isn't a whole lot of ulf, the sound is very well mixed......one of the better concert blus in my collection. Excellent pseudo 4k video too.
post #13729 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

That's a damned good question. I have every concert blu they've put out and the sound is subpar on all of them.....some worse than others. When I read some of the reviews for their latest concert blu release and how it is even worse than before, I decided to pass. With all that money they have, why can't they get it right?!!!
I just recently picked up Muse, "Live at Rome Olympic Stadium" and even though there isn't a whole lot of ulf, the sound is very well mixed......one of the better concert blus in my collection. Excellent pseudo 4k video too.


No doubt. It really is strange. I have not found a single live Rush recording yet that I liked which is a shame since they are such a great band. IIRC, Alex Lifeson usually does the mixing for the dvds.........his ears must be shot from years of guitar playing or something. tongue.gif

Thanks for the Muse rec! Not familiar with them, but always open to new music, especially if it is great on a technical level. Just put this in my Amazon cart. cool.gif
post #13730 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

No doubt. It really is strange. I have not found a single live Rush recording yet that I liked which is a shame since they are such a great band. IIRC, Alex Lifeson usually does the mixing for the dvds.........his ears must be shot from years of guitar playing or something. tongue.gif

Thanks for the Muse rec! Not familiar with them, but always open to new music, especially if it is great on a technical level. Just put this in my Amazon cart. cool.gif
I wasn't either until I picked it up a month ago based on Jeffrey Kaufman's bluray.com review. It took a few spins for it to take hold and now it's my guilty pleasure go to disc. And what's kinda funny is I come from a fairly prog, avant garde preference with bands like Dream Theater, Jeff beck to name a few. BTW, Jeff Beck's "Live at Ronnie Scotts" bluray is just flat out awesome. Great sound and Jeff still plays like a 20 year old. Has a young female bass player that is smokin hot musically and nice to look at too.
BTW; one thing I forgot to mention about the Muse blu is they have what has to be the biggest darned stage set EVER!!! A buddy came over to check out this concert and we figure the stage set alone has to cost somewhere between 2 and 3 million dollars. I think they have at least ten semis to haul the stuff around. You will be amazed!!!
post #13731 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

I wasn't either until I picked it up a month ago based on Jeffrey Kaufman's bluray.com review. It took a few spins for it to take hold and now it's my guilty pleasure go to disc. And what's kinda funny is I come from a fairly prog, avant garde preference with bands like Dream Theater, Jeff beck to name a few. BTW, Jeff Beck's "Live at Ronnie Scotts" bluray is just flat out awesome. Great sound and Jeff still plays like a 20 year old. Has a young female bass player that is smokin hot musically and nice to look at too.
BTW; one thing I forgot to mention about the Muse blu is they have what has to be the biggest darned stage set EVER!!! A buddy came over to check out this concert and we figure the stage set alone has to cost somewhere between 2 and 3 million dollars. I think they have at least ten semis to haul the stuff around. You will be amazed!!!

Awesome! Looking forward to checking it out.

Agreed on the Jeff Beck disc. I have that one as well and it is fantastic!

Speaking of Dream Theater, Live at the Budokan is one of my top concert blus! Another fantastic recording/mix. Have you heard this album by chance......

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-8&_dynSessConf=&id=pcat17071&type=page&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=15&sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960&fs=saas&saas=saas&keys=keys&st=Dream+theater+DVD-A

Really tempted to pick this up to check out the DVD-A 5.1 mix
post #13732 of 16109
OK...watching Ender's Game right now and holy cow the bass is pretty stupid!!!
At the 1:05:25 during the rocket launch...this is at the limits of my 21's!!!
I am actually hearing my subs bottoming out. (4x FTW21's and 4x SI18's)

WOTW does not do that at the same level...

Had to pause that scene and write this...someone please graph that part...thanks
Can't believe how much the subs are moving!

Carry on
post #13733 of 16109
Any good action movies lately with good bass?
post #13734 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

OK...watching Ender's Game right now and holy cow the bass is pretty stupid!!!
At the 1:05:25 during the rocket launch...this is at the limits of my 21's!!!
I am actually hearing my subs bottoming out. (4x FTW21's and 4x SI18's)

WOTW does not do that at the same level...

Had to pause that scene and write this...someone please graph that part...thanks
Can't believe how much the subs are moving!

Carry on

How about the spoiler alert option wink.gif however can't wait till next week to buy this one smile.gif
post #13735 of 16109
Ender's game thanks biggrin.gif
post #13736 of 16109
Rush was fantastic. Great use of lfe and awesome story!!!
post #13737 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

OK...watching Ender's Game right now and holy cow the bass is pretty stupid!!!
At the 1:05:25 during the rocket launch...this is at the limits of my 21's!!!
I am actually hearing my subs bottoming out. (4x FTW21's and 4x SI18's)

WOTW does not do that at the same level...

Had to pause that scene and write this...someone please graph that part...thanks
Can't believe how much the subs are moving!

Carry on

 

post #13738 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post



Omg I thought it went deeper than that.
Very surprised
Still very powerful scene
post #13739 of 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Awesome! Looking forward to checking it out.

Agreed on the Jeff Beck disc. I have that one as well and it is fantastic!

Speaking of Dream Theater, Live at the Budokan is one of my top concert blus! Another fantastic recording/mix. Have you heard this album by chance......

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-8&_dynSessConf=&id=pcat17071&type=page&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=15&sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960&fs=saas&saas=saas&keys=keys&st=Dream+theater+DVD-A

Really tempted to pick this up to check out the DVD-A 5.1 mix
Live at Budokan has seen years and years of reference duty. Most folks who have never heard of them have to pick their jaw up off the floor after the 3 hour set.

Yeah, I've got the latest self titled CD/DVDa combo and the 5.1 mix is excellent. I think they have a new sound engineer as this is the first time LaBrie's voice has come through nice and clear and he's better than ever. Can't say that about the rest of the band because you just can't improve upon virtuoso perfection, if ya know what I mean. wink.gif

DT has a new concert blu and it too is phenomenal. I actually like the mix better on this one than Budokan but you really need to turn it up to realize it's full potential. JP's guitar sounds absolutely incredible thanks in part to the new DiMarzio "Illuminator" pickups he's using now. Some of the best sounding guitar I've ever heard on any disc.
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Dream-Theater-Live-at-Luna-Park-Blu-ray/83934/#Review

The bass on the Luna Park blu is pretty darned nice too.
post #13740 of 16109
Quote:
This *only* works to result in a 4th order, (24 dB/octave) in-room roll off if the speakers also have a 12 dB/octave roll off starting at 80 Hz. This would require a sealed or infinite baffle speaker with an F3 of 80 Hz. How many speakers do you know of that have that exact spec?

Mine do, and they aint THX certified. wink.gifsmile.gif
Quote:
Since a demo session with sixteen 18" subwoofers in a 1,500 cubic foot room didn't do it for me - - I'm personally not going to worry about pursuing the very lowest frequencies.

I'm only running 1/2 the firepower of PL (8 18's), but I didn't build my system strictly for subsonic frequencies. I built mine to be accurate at reference with the ability to reproduce the entire track (single digit or not) with as little distortion as possible. wink.gif

That's like saying people who spend thousands on a projector are crazy. Aren't they "chasing" the best video representation as possible? After all, what is HT about, if it's not this? To me it's about replicating as close as possible, what I feel that scene would have entailed (minus the drama, lol).

Call us purists; but that's what this hobby is all about to some of us. If it weren't for the purists; there would be no reason for the current technology. We'd all be watching 32" 4:3 TV's on our betamax players.
Edited by bass addict - 2/1/14 at 8:28pm
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