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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 475

post #14221 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

(even used, it's still too expensive for my blu-ray budget)

 

Get me under $10 and I'm in!

 

Just finished watching Tron Legacy(rental from Amazon).  A lot of bass, almost seemed a little excessive at times as in.....hard to be climactic when it is so in your face nonstop the entire movie.  But it was still pretty good.

post #14222 of 16207
I have a potentially dumb question. Is reference level playback putting the volume at 0 on the receiver?
post #14223 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Get me under $10 and I'm in!

Currently, the best delivered blu-ray I find on Amazon Prime is $16.99 plus any applicable sales tax.

(dang.....the darn thing hopped into a shopping cart and all on it's own will be here on Monday)

I am so mad at myself.....eek.gif.....rolleyes.gif.....biggrin.gif

(i know the wife, who's not here right now, will forgive me when she gets back as i know she'll love this flix)

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/14/14 at 9:21am
post #14224 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

A lot of bass is a statement of quantity, and the amount of bass in a movie can be quantified. That's the main point of the other site's measurements of movies.

I bring up the conversation about preference because it doesn't matter if you like 'em or not, TMWTIF and DiT and PacRim and TIH and WOTW and AIL all have tons of bass. By contrast, even if it's your favorite movie with bass ever, Gone With the Wind doesn't have much bass.


I understand all that, but what I am saying is what determines "MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF BASS FOR BASS'S SAKE" as far as a films bass track goes is a matter of opinion/perspective which I gave a perfect example of with DiT as I know you see that film one way and me another. I don't understand the "seems to get lost in this thread" comment in light of how much perception/opinion can play into determining whether a bass track should fall in the MAOBFBS category or not from one listener to the next. confused.gif
post #14225 of 16207
"Gone With The Wind" confused.gif Did they even "HAVE" bass in those days? tongue.gif
post #14226 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


What AVR and Center Channel are you using? I ask to see if at reference the system is stressing which will cause output problems at reference level play.

My cure to a similar problem, was to upgrade the Center Channel and the old AVR to a XT32/SubEQ HT capable receiver. The old were very capable but not good enough; Marantz SR5007 and Klipsch KV-4 center channel. The end of the tale, in our 3300^3 room, open to other large spaces, as good as they still are, they can't keep up with the demands of today's sound tracks so they were retired to the gee-rage as backup.

Another trick you can try, jack the subwoofer levels up 10dB and turn the (MVC) main volume control down to -10dB MVC which will give you all the managed subwoofer provided bass and at the same time reduce the harshness of the center channel. It never hurts to dial in an extra 3dB into the center channel during movies to improve on listenability of the center channel.

After movie viewing, when back to regular cable programming, I dial the system back to flat playback so as to not have bass heavy television content.

Hope the above helps with your concerns.

-


Thank You for that information, I live in the UK and have an excellent package known as the mission six pack.

 

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/28077987/Mission-6-Pack-AV-Loudspeaker-System-Mission-70-Satellites

 

These are now close to 14 years and are run in well..the tracks that have centre harshness are movies that are dialled up too loud such as STID etc.

 

White House Down is very average..if you have the movie you will understand especially when comparing to Pacific Rim, sounds muddy and dialogue can be incoherent at times, especially during the action scenes.

 

My system is calibrated to 75db with the subwoofer 80db. I'm using a DSP-AX763 Yamaha which is the UK version of the US RX-V663 Yamaha.


Edited by zero zero seven - 2/14/14 at 9:39am
post #14227 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by emerson1 View Post

I have a potentially dumb question. Is reference level playback putting the volume at 0 on the receiver?

If properly calibrated, yes.
post #14228 of 16207
It depends on the AVR and speakers.
post #14229 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by zero zero seven View Post


Thank You for that information, I live in the UK and have an excellent package known as the mission six pack.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/28077987/Mission-6-Pack-AV-Loudspeaker-System-Mission-70-Satellites

---snip---

My system is calibrated to 75db with the subwoofer 80db. I'm using a DSP-AX763 Yamaha which is the UK version of the US RX-V663 Yamaha.

Unfortunately, as nice as these speakers are, they're not reference capable speakers as they're rated at 20w - 50w which means in a perfect world, you're maxing out the speakers to get to reference level playback. At this point, the speakers expectedly are going be distorting. At lower levels, they'll do fine but at reference, there's expectedly going be technical troubles.

According to the factory specs you linked to, the sub is limited to 36Hz which isn't very low, fine for most music but not adequate for today's movie sound tracks and due to these points, sound quality is going be limited accordingly. Nice AVR. Are you able to upgrade your speakers and subwoofer?

If I've misunderstood or misread anything, please let me know.
post #14230 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by emerson1 View Post

I have a potentially dumb question. Is reference level playback putting the volume at 0 on the receiver?

Like MKtheater pointed out, it depends: what brand/model AVR and speakers do you use?
post #14231 of 16207
Toe,

I brought it up because I see a pretty solid correlation between a preference for movies with exaggerated bass, exaggerated bass response via running extremely hot or huge house curves, and exaggerated claims of bass (or lack thereof) in movies. In short, people who like fish stories tend to tell fish stories.

In a few more months, I actually hope to have statistical analysis of people's stated system response, ratings of bass in movies, and the actual quantified bass content in movies. I think I can show a valid causal link between system response and stated preference for a particular style of bass movie. That is, until people start lying more frequently about their in-room responses and levels by cheating on REW...(which is pretty easy to do, mind you). tongue.gifwink.gif Disclaimer - this paragraph is partially tongue-in-cheek, but the first paragraph is completely serious.

And, that's my 1,000th post. Kinda a dumb post for #1K, but so be it. wink.gif Now I've officially got that "AVS Special Member" for my girlfriend. wink.gif
post #14232 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


Unfortunately, as nice as these speakers are, they're not reference capable speakers as they're rated at 20w - 50w which means in a perfect world, you're maxing out the speakers to get to reference level playback. At this point, the speakers expectedly are going be distorting.

According to the factory specs you linked to, the sub is limited to 36Hz which isn't very low, fine for most music but not adequate for today's movie sound tracks and due to these points, sound quality is going be limited accordingly. Nice AVR. Are you able to upgrade you speakers and subwoofer?

If I've misunderstood or misread anything, please let me know.

If I understand correctly wouldn't all systems sound similar if calibrated to 75db minus the bass of course? My sound system is astonishing at reference without any distortion at all. Even if my speakers are 60watts rms it should sound the same as someone with speakers with 100watts rms right because 75db would be 75db? Correct me if I'm wrong.

post #14233 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by zero zero seven View Post

If I understand correctly wouldn't all systems sound similar if calibrated to 75db minus the bass of course? My sound system is astonishing at reference without any distortion at all. Even if my speakers are 60watts rms it should sound the same as someone with speakers with 100watts rms right because 75db would be 75db? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Sonic/timbre differences of speakers aside, I'm going off this post of yours:

Quote:
I find the track has some awful mixing with the centre channel recorded too low making the dialogue somewhat harsh at reference as the bandwidth is stretched. The centre can be drowned out with all the mayhem.

It is definately one of Sony's worse mixes.

Collectively WHD has received many positive sonic reviews. I'm currently waiting on our blu-ray copy to arrive so I've not heard the sound track and cannot respond from personal experience.

I tread very lightly when commenting on another person's system. My comments are based on THX reference standards and what I know about power output of AVR, speaker sensitivity, size of room, distance from (MLP) main listening position, et cetera. In my comments, I do not wish to step on anybody's toes and cause upset although as an American, that seems to be cultural trait. tongue.gif
post #14234 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Toe,

I brought it up because I see a pretty solid correlation between a preference for movies with exaggerated bass, exaggerated bass response via running extremely hot or huge house curves, and exaggerated claims of bass (or lack thereof) in movies. In short, people who like fish stories tend to tell fish stories.

In a few more months, I actually hope to have statistical analysis of people's stated system response, ratings of bass in movies, and the actual quantified bass content in movies. I think I can show a valid causal link between system response and stated preference for a particular style of bass movie. That is, until people start lying more frequently about their in-room responses and levels by cheating on REW...(which is pretty easy to do, mind you). tongue.gifwink.gif Disclaimer - this paragraph is partially tongue-in-cheek, but the first paragraph is completely serious.

And, that's my 1,000th post. Kinda a dumb post for #1K, but so be it. wink.gif Now I've officially got that "AVS Special Member" for my girlfriend. wink.gif



While there is certainly some merit to that and it would be very interesting to see, you can still only objectify it so much and there is a very subjective element to what constitutes a MAOBFBS track depending on the listener even if all other variables have been squashed. You and me could be sitting in either a theater that has been calibrated flat, or with a house curve and we could both come away with different opinions/perceptions of the LFE and how it interacted with the film. You could come out saying it was MAOBFBS (I like this new abbreviation/acronym by the way tongue.gif ) and I could come out still saying the over the top LFE had purpose, fit the film, and supported the intended feel of the movie. I very much respect the objective side of all things A/V, but I think it is important not to discount the subjective element too much as well because even if the only variable is a different set of ears, people could come away with very different opinions on any given track. That is my only point and I understand what you are saying as well.

I have mentioned several times that my favorite bass tracks are what we typically think of when we say "bass fest" like TIH, Matrix Revolutions, Tron Legacy, etc.......but that does not mean I don't appreciate the tracks that call for a more artful and refined use of bass like Captain Phillips for example which I was extremely impressed with as I wrote even if I would never use it as "demo" material since it is not my preference for that.
Edited by Toe - 2/14/14 at 10:43am
post #14235 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Toe,

---snip---

Disclaimer - this paragraph is partially tongue-in-cheek, but the first paragraph is completely serious.

... confused.gif

Oh great! I'm now officially confused.

...tongue.gif
post #14236 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

... confused.gif

Oh great! I'm now officially confused.

...tongue.gif

As opposed to your usual "unofficially" confused?














biggrin.gif
post #14237 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

As opposed to your usual "unofficially" confused?

biggrin.gif

If it's unofficial, I have plausible deniability.

...biggrin.gif
post #14238 of 16207
Holy Acronym Batman .... maybe we could add a dictionary to the first post. I've been following this thread for a while, but it's gotten crazy in the last few days!
post #14239 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie Isaac View Post

Holy Acronym Batman .... maybe we could add a dictionary to the first post. I've been following this thread for a while, but it's gotten crazy in the last few days!

Somebody has a thread running with all the initials but I can't find it. Maybe someone else?
post #14240 of 16207
That'd be me, and the link to it's in my signature.
post #14241 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


I tread very lightly when commenting on another person's system. My comments are based on THX reference standards and what I know about power output of AVR, speaker sensitivity, size of room, distance from (MLP) main listening position, et cetera. In my comments, I do not wish to step on anybody's toes and cause upset although as an American, that seems to be cultural trait. tongue.gif



Do you know that THX "reference playback level" is not the same as Dolby "reference playback level"?
post #14242 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by zero zero seven View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Unfortunately, as nice as these speakers are, they're not reference capable speakers as they're rated at 20w - 50w which means in a perfect world, you're maxing out the speakers to get to reference level playback. At this point, the speakers expectedly are going be distorting.


According to the factory specs you linked to, the sub is limited to 36Hz which isn't very low, fine for most music but not adequate for today's movie sound tracks and due to these points, sound quality is going be limited accordingly. Nice AVR. Are you able to upgrade you speakers and subwoofer?


If I've misunderstood or misread anything, please let me know.
If I understand correctly wouldn't all systems sound similar if calibrated to 75db minus the bass of course? My sound system is astonishing at reference without any distortion at all. Even if my speakers are 60watts rms it should sound the same as someone with speakers with 100watts rms right because 75db would be 75db? Correct me if I'm wrong.


A -30 dBfs signal per channel will give you 75 dBspl by calibration. However, if there is content recorded at 0 dBfs, you need to play your speakers at 105 dBspl (75 dBSPL plus 30 dB = 105 dBspl theoretical).

Now most normal people do not playback their systems at full calibrated "reference level", so most of the time most people have enough speaker and power to run their systems at their normal playback volumes.
post #14243 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

That'd be me, and the link to it's in my signature.

Sweet! Thanks!
post #14244 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

Do you know that THX "reference playback level" is not the same as Dolby "reference playback level"?

Yeeeeeees? confused.gif

(am i in trouble again)

...tongue.gif

A suggestion, just go ahead and link to the two different standards rather than sound all ominous.
post #14245 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

A -30 dBfs signal per channel will give you 75 dBspl by calibration. However, if there is content recorded at 0 dBfs, you need to play your speakers at 105 dBspl (75 dBSPL plus 30 dB = 105 dBspl theoretical).

What you left out, 85dB is playback level and 105dB is peak headroom with subs at 95dB with 115dB peak headroom. Unfortunately, in conversations of this type, playback levels and peak playbacks levels or headroom, are discussed as if one and they're not.

Quote:
Now most normal people do not playback their systems at full calibrated "reference level", so most of the time most people have enough speaker and power to run their systems at their normal playback volumes.

Correct. The person I was responding to mentioned reference level play and that was the comment I was responding to when he posted:

"I find the track has some awful mixing with the centre channel recorded too low making the dialogue somewhat harsh at reference as the bandwidth is stretched. The centre can be drowned out with all the mayhem.

It is definately one of Sony's worse mixes."

A point I quoted forward in my first response the the comment, hence my conversation about reference level playback.

(if this is going turn into another argument, this will be my last response on this issue to you)

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/14/14 at 11:51am
post #14246 of 16207
I think he was trying to explain the difference between a -20dbfs and a -30dbfs (which most mfgs use) when used for calibrating.
post #14247 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


Sonic/timbre differences of speakers aside, I'm going off this post of yours:
Collectively WHD has received many positive sonic reviews. I'm currently waiting on our blu-ray copy to arrive so I've not heard the sound track and cannot respond from personal experience.

I tread very lightly when commenting on another person's system. My comments are based on THX reference standards and what I know about power output of AVR, speaker sensitivity, size of room, distance from (MLP) main listening position, et cetera. In my comments, I do not wish to step on anybody's toes and cause upset although as an American, that seems to be cultural trait. tongue.gif

Please keep me updated on how it sounds on your system, and please be honest. It will then explain room acoustics and listening levels and also the track itself on different systems.

 

White House Down needs to be discussed.

post #14248 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

I think he was trying to explain the difference between a -20dbfs and a -30dbfs (which most mfgs use) when used for calibrating.


Yes the OP was talking about 75 dBspl being the calibrated reference level setting. That is the calibration SPL level that is used in consumer equipment and it is based on calibration tone level of -30 dBfs.

The commercial setups like used in mixing rooms use -20 dBfs levels, so 85 dB spl is their calibration level.

With both calibration schemes, peak levels come out to be 105 dBspl output with 0 dBfs input.
post #14249 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

Do you know that THX "reference playback level" is not the same as Dolby "reference playback level"?

Yeeeeeees? confused.gif

(am i in trouble again)

...tongue.gif

A suggestion, just go ahead and link to the two different standards rather than sound all ominous.


The difference is how a THX unit and a Dolby unit handles dialnorm. Your receiver may have a dialnorm readout or a dialnorm offset readout. Take a look at it when you use DD material on your system (TV or DVD / bluray).

There are ways to test it, but you will not do the tests so no need to discuss them!
post #14250 of 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

I think he was trying to explain the difference between a -20dbfs and a -30dbfs (which most mfgs use) when used for calibrating.

Then a suggestion, instead of asking me if I know the difference, lay it all out. Post links that show the difference. Of course I know the difference. Is this a mid-term test, subwoofers 101? If you follow my posts, I'll ask a question and then follow it up with the rational behind my question so nobody has to second guess the motives of my question. The point, folks around these here parts like to lay traps so they can say "Gotcha!"

(does everybody have to turn everything into an argument)

...confused.gif
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