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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 150

post #4471 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Years ago I was using WOTW to see what my safe headroom limits were and had the volume up way past where I would normally be. During the lightning strikes my receiver (mid grade Pio at the time) actually muted and went into protect twice. I think it is the second or third strike that triggered it but can't remember exactly. It seemed a little odd because there is very little upper frequency content during this and I believe I was using a 80Hz cross on the mains at that time. I can only assume that it triggered some type of DC fault protection. Either that or the current demands from the sub amps somehow browned out the AC line enough to trigger it even though they are on a separate breaker. Never had any other soundtrack do that.

Yeah, over the years, WOTW is the only disc that cooked amps (American Audio V6001, DOA) and popped fuses in amps where no other disc has.

Quote:
BTW you don't happen to have an SL capture of the final battle in X-men 1st class do you? Specifically where the navy bombards the beach and Magneto halts the shells? That part is violent in my room and one of my favorite bass effects I've encountered.

Just for you, Josh... and yes, it's a monster!:

X-Men1stClassCh29turnmissilesatthem.jpg
Quote:
Getting a little elitist there Scott? tongue.gif

We prefer 'realist'. biggrin.gif
post #4472 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

Loving all the suggestions for top 10 BD scenes and agree with all of them. One scene not mentioned so far is the plane fly over in Hanna at the beginning of the movie when she is still in the woods. What is great about it is that it is out of now where. I remember replaying that scene a few times when I first watched it.

Agreed, Hanna has lots of great stuff, and I liked the movie, too:

Here's the flyover:

Hannaflyover.jpg
post #4473 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post



Getting a little elitist there Scott? tongue.gif

Haha! Omg, I know...I'm such an ass****. tongue.gif

It is getting kind of old hearing about "awesome, omg so deep" all these simply average bass tracks are. Once one has been doing this for so long and knows the difference, it simply gets old. I'll be the first person to say that bass above 25hz is important and everything but when a movie is a 30hz fest (and most are) it's just inaccurate for a science vessel such as this thread is to claim otherwise. Yeah, I'm talking about YOU Underworld:Awakening. That's right, I said it. What? You wanna fight about it? tongue.gif

celtic-come-at-me-bro.jpg
post #4474 of 16105
Hey Scott, your sub looks insane man!! I can't believe your house is still standing lol.
post #4475 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Just for you, Josh... and yes, it's a monster!:
X-Men1stClassCh29turnmissilesatthem.jpg


Eeewww...eek.gif That would explain it. wink.gif
When I bought this I watched it for the first time with one of my buddies who is a car audio guy and yet owns a Best Buy HTIB system for his home theater rolleyes.gif. He gets this weird look on his face and turns to me during this part and yells "Is that the bass?!" Pretty funny. Probably my favorite movie soundtrack from 2011. Hanna was great as well.
post #4476 of 16105
Bosso/Scott,

On call earlier today, just saw both of your posts before hitting the rack.

Yes, I am probably gonna upgrade from the two 22Hz horns that I get 15Hz from by room gain and careful highpassing, as well as never listening above -7dB (-10dB most of the time) due to distortion problems (and to preserve the cochleas).

Looks like I will do a bunch of Dayton Ref HF 15" sealed in 3.5 cubes each for subs, 4 at first, and doubling that to eight (I already own three, two of which are in the big horns, and their performance below horn tuning made me decide on them, + reasonable price when on sale) and maybe a pair of fills for mode cancelling as time and budget allows. I should get down to 7-10Hz with no problem at -10dB, then the mains/surrounds become the weakest link....

For mains/surrounds, I am hamstrung by the non-AT screen, so tall and slim will be the course of action, but I will make the screen from blackout cloth, allowing me to put some absorption behind (rigid fiberglass, 4" thick, to get rid of the nice 1/4 wave suckouts a front wall 'gives' us... I will be doing lots of line array work (measuring the arrays I have, and doing experiments with cheap 2" and 5.25" drivers I also have to see how theory and real life compares), with CBTs in mind. It will all be documented over at DIYSG's forum. If the line array experiments do not pan out (I have a feeling CBTs/LineArrays may have a fatal flaw reproducing material at reference, based on theory), I have some ideas that maybe could turn into flat packs for people like myself:

WANTED: Reference Level (or within 3-4 dB) out of L/C/R/S at 4m with AVR power (100W, 8Ohms), with low distortion, slim profile.

This means 95dB sensitivity, minimum. No prob, 4Pi and SEOS have that covered.... But, my prob is the slim profile bit, something the monkey coffins cannot do, without compromise... I am thinking 2x10" woofers, dedicated 6-6.5" midrange, and a CD/waveguide up top. Problems? Yes. Need a well-damped room, as response is nearly omni up to 2-3kHz, making the room the limiting factor. But no different than a conventional line array with it's wide horizontal coverage and horrible vertical lobing (hopefully CBTs fix this). Of course, true point sources would be ideal, and a few ppl have taken on the DIY Synergy challenge. For an AT screen, difficult to beat. But so are SEOS and 4Pi types, and the MONSTER you plan on builidng, Scott.... I sincerely hope you have enough integration distance, because if you do, your ONLY problem will be the noisefloor of your electronics ACTUALLY BEING DEFINITIVELY AUDIBLE with over 100dB sensitivity in LCR. You will be able to hear a blu ray disc player's motor engaging and spooling up if you are not careful. Your amps will never even break a sweat, you will never use even 50W at a films loudest peaks for LCR (read: never). Most of the time, I doubt your amps will 'dig into' into the 1Watt range....

Bosso, what is your L/C/R/S setup? You run 6.1 IIRC, right? What layout?


JSS
post #4477 of 16105
I hope this War Of The Worlds: Goliath does not disappoint.
post #4478 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

I hope this War Of The Worlds: Goliath does not disappoint.

Produced by Tripod Entertainment. biggrin.gif
post #4479 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Bosso/Scott,
On call earlier today, just saw both of your posts before hitting the rack.

Bosso, what is your L/C/R/S setup? You run 6.1 IIRC, right? What layout?
JSS

I built a pair of speakers in the mid-90s and I've resurrected the idea of late. I call it the Anti-Horn. Prelim tests show its worth the effort to see how it pans out. Currently, I run modded active X-over 2-way Rockets. Good response save for a dip at 3.5K. Done on-the-cheap while I worked on the low end, which, as you know, has been a long (and expensive) odyssey.

I've always marveled at the posted graphs of measurements of the so-called CD'Waveguide, etc., schemes. I look at them and see a -20dB drop from on-axis to 'x' degree off-axis and I'm completely stumped by the ensuing rounds of applause, apparently just because the FR holds its linearity during that immense drop.

Here's one of those graphs I snagged. I ran a quick test at 1M, in-room (so not ideal conditions) of the 1st iteration of the Anti-Horn, scaling the graph to the one I snagged and using cheap tweeters I had laying around and with a 4.5K HPF engaged (just the tweets were measured):

Picture6.png

I agree with your bass/mid config. With Anti-Horn, you can predesign dispersion width and stay within (+/-) 2dB across the entire FR, across the entire dispersion width (theoretically at this point). We'll see how it turns out.

And, as is always my first concern, they look pretty cool as well. biggrin.gif

EDIT: This is a serious thread-jack. We can better flesh it out in a new thread, which I'll start when I have more actual data and pics...
post #4480 of 16105
Bosso, I note your previous comment about a popular 20hz capable sub vs. your Raven subwoofer system creation --- and assume may be the JTR Captivator to which you refer. ((post 4465) eek.gif yeah -- 4465 - this thread is huge!))

After attending three big subwoofer events, and being very active with local Missouri, and Kansas enthusiasts, -- and hearing more popular subs than most including a slew of five esteemed Submersive HPs in one setup, four Epik Empires, dual JTR orbit shifters, dual LMS-5400 sealed, dual JTR S1's, a pair of CHT sealed 18.1s, an ED sealed18 etc -- and many many many lesser subs -- it's yet to be proven to me subjectively that the stuff below 15 to 20hz even matters in real world material playback. I welcome the chance to experience something unique. I may have another chance coming up this weekend when I go to dlbeck's house during the Iowa speaker meet and experience a pair of JTR Cap s2's setup by Jeff himself the night before. (4) high excursion 18" drivers in the S2 pair powered by 8000 watts total with Jeff's DSP programming and setup skill should be able to provide the subsonic ULF experience. I look forward to this experience as sort of a moment of truth.

To extend this observation beyond my own experience I would also submit that it wasn't proven to the nine voting attendees in the 2012 KC Blind sub meet that extension below audible bass levels actually easily identifiable. The ported Captivator scored within 2-3 percentage points of first place overall on the very movie clips that are so praised on these forums for their subsonic content -- that subsonic ULF material which the ported Captivator does not even have the capability to playback. Moreover the Captivator's INuke DSP 3000 amp failed, overloaded and reset three times during the blind audition. We didn't release this information at the time of the blind audition, or stop the audition and restart or anything of that nature - we just let it ride. The three finishers before it (Seaton Submersive HP pair, JTR Orbit Shifter pair, JTR S1 pair) were on much more powerful dedicated plate amps for each sub. I contend that had the INuke amp not died 3x's during the movie selection, the caps might have finished first for movie viewing. Even if you don't want to play the "what if game" - if nothing else you must agree that the amp resetting itself three times during the audition would have negatively effected the Captivators overall group summary score during the movie contest. It's clear that it did from the comments. Multiple comments themed 'I love this sub audition, but it was mysteriously absent in some bass scenes - and the listed scenese were preciously the sections listed where the amp rebooted). Thus --- if nothing else the overall subjective human detectable difference between sealed capable to low ULF thresholds and ported subs which are incapable of such frequency reproduction would seem to be minimal.

I'm not closed minded to this subject, I've just not experienced anything that would lead me to believe there is some clearly experienced effect occurring that is missed in Theatrical movie reproduction of subsonic ultra low frequencies. As you've noted in my PMs to you I'm interested in finding this wow factor if it exists. I believe jedimastergrant, carp, MrSmithers, and pennynike1 will confirm that when we were testing ULF frequencies on carp's pair of submersive HPs in his room and adjusting 5 -15 hz to 75dB test tone levels most of the guys couldn't confirm if the subs were on or off. For the record, I was one of the ones in the group that could somewhat more readily tell, but the felt evidence of these subsonic tones was soooooo minimal as to be completely outdone by the feel of a 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 hz tone at 75dB. To put my thoughts into a illustration: --- If a pin drops in a quiet room you can hear it. If a pin drops in a busy nightclub you'd likely miss it. The sound is still there, but it is masked by all the other sounds. With subs --- the slight tingle feel of the 10hz might be there, but it is masked by the throbbing intensity of the 30hz tone which is also present.

This discussion topic has been beat to death. I apologize for another post on the matter, but I'm still wanting to experience the subsonic ULF contributing to movie watching in a clear and discernable way.


If you should hold a meet with your raven system, I would definitely like to participate.
post #4481 of 16105
I think for ULF to be noticeable you need a lot more sub than 2 submersives or sealed caps can deliver. You also need something else that will have a large effect; room gain. I just looked at Bossobass's new website, wow! Those sub systems look fantastic, and all of it seems perfectly thought out, there is nothing on those subs that seems random. (Price on request only btw?). The modularity is very interesting (need more output? Add more subs).

I'm very happy however with my captivators. I have very strong output to about 13hz, which isn't all that bad imo. My room is U shaped with false walls and has virtually no room gain, simply adding more sealed subs and more power is one way, but it would have cost me at least 2x as much to have a system with this kind of output, and I still would have been down 12db the octave below that. Strong output to 3hz would cost me a fortune in this room.

In a different room I'd look no further than 4 blackbirds (or raptors). They just look badass. I'd probably get two more as side tables, they look that good imo cool.gif
post #4482 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Bosso, I note your previous comment about a popular 20hz capable sub vs. your Raven subwoofer system creation --- and assume may be the JTR Captivator to which you refer. ((post 4465) eek.gif yeah -- 4465 - this thread is huge!))
After attending three big subwoofer events, and being very active with local Missouri, and Kansas enthusiasts, -- and hearing more popular subs than most including a slew of five esteemed Submersive HPs in one setup, four Epik Empires, dual JTR orbit shifters, dual LMS-5400 sealed, dual JTR S1's, a pair of CHT sealed 18.1s, an ED sealed18 etc -- and many many many lesser subs -- it's yet to be proven to me subjectively that the stuff below 15 to 20hz even matters in real world material playback. I welcome the chance to experience something unique. I may have another chance coming up this weekend when I go to dlbeck's house during the Iowa speaker meet and experience a pair of JTR Cap s2's setup by Jeff himself the night before. (4) high excursion 18" drivers in the S2 pair powered by 8000 watts total with Jeff's DSP programming and setup skill should be able to provide the subsonic ULF experience. I look forward to this experience as sort of a moment of truth.
To extend this observation beyond my own experience I would also submit that it wasn't proven to the nine voting attendees in the 2012 KC Blind sub meet that extension below audible bass levels actually easily identifiable. The ported Captivator scored within 2-3 percentage points of first place overall on the very movie clips that are so praised on these forums for their subsonic content -- that subsonic ULF material which the ported Captivator does not even have the capability to playback. Moreover the Captivator's INuke DSP 3000 amp failed, overloaded and reset three times during the blind audition. We didn't release this information at the time of the blind audition, or stop the audition and restart or anything of that nature - we just let it ride. The three finishers before it (Seaton Submersive HP pair, JTR Orbit Shifter pair, JTR S1 pair) were on much more powerful dedicated plate amps for each sub. I contend that had the INuke amp not died 3x's during the movie selection, the caps might have finished first for movie viewing. Even if you don't want to play the "what if game" - if nothing else you must agree that the amp resetting itself three times during the audition would have negatively effected the Captivators overall group summary score during the movie contest. It's clear that it did from the comments. Multiple comments themed 'I love this sub audition, but it was mysteriously absent in some bass scenes - and the listed scenese were preciously the sections listed where the amp rebooted). Thus --- if nothing else the overall subjective human detectable difference between sealed capable to low ULF thresholds and ported subs which are incapable of such frequency reproduction would seem to be minimal.
I'm not closed minded to this subject, I've just not experienced anything that would lead me to believe there is some clearly experienced effect occurring that is missed in Theatrical movie reproduction of subsonic ultra low frequencies. As you've noted in my PMs to you I'm interested in finding this wow factor if it exists. I believe jedimastergrant, carp, MrSmithers, and pennynike1 will confirm that when we were testing ULF frequencies on carp's pair of submersive HPs in his room and adjusting 5 -15 hz to 75dB test tone levels most of the guys couldn't confirm if the subs were on or off. For the record, I was one of the ones in the group that could somewhat more readily tell, but the felt evidence of these subsonic tones was soooooo minimal as to be completely outdone by the feel of a 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 hz tone at 75dB. To put my thoughts into a illustration: --- If a pin drops in a quiet room you can hear it. If a pin drops in a busy nightclub you'd likely miss it. The sound is still there, but it is masked by all the other sounds. With subs --- the slight tingle feel of the 10hz might be there, but it is masked by the throbbing intensity of the 30hz tone which is also present.
This discussion topic has been beat to death. I apologize for another post on the matter, but I'm still wanting to experience the subsonic ULF contributing to movie watching in a clear and discernable way.
If you should hold a meet with your raven system, I would definitely like to participate.

I'll convince you with a single scene. biggrin.gif

There has never been a single soul who didn't notice the difference in the with/without listening tests I've conducted. Age, gender, race, height or weight... irrelevant. Everyone notices the difference. The descriptives are the only thing that varies, which is why I prefer to use SpecLab and leave the translations of subjective comments to others.

You'd have to show me the FR at your seat and SpecLab caps, using a reliable measurement system for ULF of the scenes auditioned in your various listening experiences in order for me to be able to comment further on that. I'll just say that the subs you auditioned don't give much below 20 Hz, sealed, ported or whatever alignment notwithstanding. As I've said many, many times, the sealed alignment does not insure full bandwidth performance, and if it ain't coming out, you can't notice it.

Referring to a scene like the end of the cop car bashing of Abomination by Hulk as dropping a pin is so far off the mark. As far as auditory masking goes, how do you mask an effect that below human hearing with sounds in the audible region? Using the hulk as an example (because I have it handy, there are many more):

Hulkcarbaskzoomedin.jpg

All of this effect is below 20 Hz. There's no higher frequency content of any consequence to mask it, even if it could be masked. When this effect moves the floor, you'll feel it... period, no question, guaranteed. In basements with masonry walls and floor, which can't be rippled by sound pressure waves, it may take more output, but since there is up to 50 times less transmission loss in such a room, you typically have that output vs my room, which is a 2nd floor space. But, that's all just physics trivia. When I get finished messing with the latest new stuff, I'll let you know and set up a demo for you.
post #4483 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVG View Post

I think for ULF to be noticeable you need a lot more sub than 2 submersives or sealed caps can deliver. You also need something else that will have a large effect; room gain. I just looked at Bossobass's new website, wow! Those sub systems look fantastic, and all of it seems perfectly thought out, there is nothing on those subs that seems random. (Price on request only btw?). The modularity is very interesting (need more output? Add more subs).
I'm very happy however with my captivators. I have very strong output to about 13hz, which isn't all that bad imo. My room is U shaped with false walls and has virtually no room gain, simply adding more sealed subs and more power is one way, but it would have cost me at least 2x as much to have a system with this kind of output, and I still would have been down 12db the octave below that. Strong output to 3hz would cost me a fortune in this room.
In a different room I'd look no further than 4 blackbirds (or raptors). They just look badass. I'd probably get two more as side tables, they look that good imo cool.gif

Yes, it depends on the room one is in. I am not sure in all these GTG's if the low end was boosted for the sealed subs and whether if they had enough drivers and power for that boost? Keeping the subs within their limits and having enough for the bottom is what is needed. If the Caps fall off at 15hz but is playing 120 dBs from 15hz and up then it will sound stronger than say a sealed sub playing 110 dBs from 10hz and up. Now play the sealed subs from 5hz and up at 120 dBs and I bet the difference is felt. Of course you need a scene that has lots of 5-10hz rather than lots of 30hz. Let me guess, the scene with 30hz will sound similar, of course it will. The scene with strong 5-10hz(plane crash in WOTW) should show the difference. Whether someone wants that or not is up to them, but it is the accurate way of running the scene and how it was intended. To each their own and why we have our own setups. I had a friend who came with me to setup dual Cap1000's and he said his single CHT CS18.1 was deeper and felt as strong. I told him he was correct, EXCEPT, I told him his room was 1/3 rd the size so he should put those 2 subs in his room and then talk to me! It is amazing how people view things.
post #4484 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

I'll convince you with a single scene. biggrin.gif
There has never been a single soul who didn't notice the difference in the with/without listening tests I've conducted. Age, gender, race, height or weight... irrelevant. Everyone notices the difference. The descriptives are the only thing that varies, which is why I prefer to use SpecLab and leave the translations of subjective comments to others.
You'd have to show me the FR at your seat and SpecLab caps, using a reliable measurement system for ULF of the scenes auditioned in your various listening experiences in order for me to be able to comment further on that. I'll just say that the subs you auditioned don't give much below 20 Hz, sealed, ported or whatever alignment notwithstanding. As I've said many, many times, the sealed alignment does not insure full bandwidth performance, and if it ain't coming out, you can't notice it.
Referring to a scene like the end of the cop car bashing of Abomination by Hulk as dropping a pin is so far off the mark. As far as auditory masking goes, how do you mask an effect that below human hearing with sounds in the audible region? Using the hulk as an example (because I have it handy, there are many more):
Hulkcarbaskzoomedin.jpg
All of this effect is below 20 Hz. There's no higher frequency content of any consequence to mask it, even if it could be masked. When this effect moves the floor, you'll feel it... period, no question, guaranteed. In basements with masonry walls and floor, which can't be rippled by sound pressure waves, it may take more output, but since there is up to 50 times less transmission loss in such a room, you typically have that output vs my room, which is a 2nd floor space. But, that's all just physics trivia. When I get finished messing with the latest new stuff, I'll let you know and set up a demo for you.


Bosso.....what's your website? Not in your profile.
post #4485 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yes, it depends on the room one is in. I am not sure in all these GTG's if the low end was boosted for the sealed subs and whether if they had enough drivers and power for that boost? Keeping the subs within their limits and having enough for the bottom is what is needed. If the Caps fall off at 15hz but is playing 120 dBs from 15hz and up then it will sound stronger than say a sealed sub playing 110 dBs from 10hz and up. Now play the sealed subs from 5hz and up at 120 dBs and I bet the difference is felt. Of course you need a scene that has lots of 5-10hz rather than lots of 30hz. Let me guess, the scene with 30hz will sound similar, of course it will. The scene with strong 5-10hz(plane crash in WOTW) should show the difference. Whether someone wants that or not is up to them, but it is the accurate way of running the scene and how it was intended. To each their own and why we have our own setups. I had a friend who came with me to setup dual Cap1000's and he said his single CHT CS18.1 was deeper and felt as strong. I told him he was correct, EXCEPT, I told him his room was 1/3 rd the size so he should put those 2 subs in his room and then talk to me! It is amazing how people view things.

Agreed. Without room gain, a low tuned ported sub (12-18hz) will have a substantial advantage over a similar quality sealed sub in the deep bass region. For example, let's assume for the sake of argument a captivator has about 6db more output across the band than an SVS PB13U. If you take the numbers from Databass and compare the PB12U in 15hz tune, add 6db and compare it to the Paradigm Sub2 numbers (which should have comparable displacement, if not more, than the driver used in the captivator). Then we can see the ported sub has about 9db more output at 16hz, and only 3db less at 12,5.

But, as bossobass says, if you want more output then add more subs. Which is why I'm curious at the prices of the systems he's offering. 2 passive caps, an FP14k clone and a minidsp will set you back about $4000 + shipping and taxes. If what bosso is offering can offer equal performance in the deep bass region for the money (and automatically a lot more output in the very deep bass region).. Then it's game over for the caps I guess tongue.gif
post #4486 of 16105
^^^^^

There is no magic pixie dust in Bosso's subwoofer system. It is just well implemented and not a mindless mashup of components. Truth be told, it doesn't cost much to build something that performs identically. wink.gif

If I had $4,000 to spend on a DIY subwoofer system, it would absolutely decimate twin Cap's. Easy.
post #4487 of 16105
Of course, no doubt about it. DIY especially in that league of performance can and will save you a lot of $$ if done well.. But I'm not that handy, and not really that interested in building my own stuff. So I'm pretty curious about Bosso's prices.
post #4488 of 16105
Well, I bet this would give dual Caps a run for their money, and they were tuned to 13.4 hz! Total cost was $1000 for the subs and $500 for the two amps, or $1500.
Unfinished of course.


DifferentangleofJTRtriple8sandsonos.jpg

IMG_3571.jpg
post #4489 of 16105
But that's DIY again MK, and a not so inconspicuous example on top (I couldn't imagine putting it my livingroom, no dedicated space here) I know that a lot of DIY subs and even commercial subs will give the caps a run for their money, but I was merely curious about Bosso's prices, that's all. They look fantastic on the photos and I'm sure they're up to spec, so that leaves me wondering only about bang for buck.
post #4490 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVG View Post

But that's DIY again MK, and a not so inconspicuous example on top (I couldn't imagine putting it my livingroom, no dedicated space here) I know that a lot of DIY subs and even commercial subs will give the caps a run for their money, but I was merely curious about Bosso's prices, that's all. They look fantastic on the photos and I'm sure they're up to spec, so that leaves me wondering only about bang for buck.

Bosso's cost would depend on what output you need for your room. I am sure it is more expensive than my beautiful masterpieces wink.gif, but still worth it. That was my first ever DIY build. I know I can feel the difference between flat to 5hz and flat to 20hz in my room! Like I said though, I made sure the output was the same and the only difference was extension. I know with my 4 F-20's, there were bass waves missing from WOTW that I was used to. I had to change it immediately. Since adding my new system, now there are a couple bass waves from that scene and I never knew it. They are subtle but makes me smile!
post #4491 of 16105
I haven't experienced noticeable output below 12hz yet, but I'm sure it's noticeable. Why would the handful of people that can actually reproduce it defend it otherwise? For me it has to be a balance between WAF (pretty tolerant wink.gif) output (reference), bandwith and price. The caps offered this for me, so if there are other systems out there that offer more performance in my room, better looks and in a similar price range, of course I'm interested smile.gif
post #4492 of 16105
Blast from the past!

Ohh, how far you've come, James. smile.gif
post #4493 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I believe jedimastergrant, carp, MrSmithers, and pennynike1 will confirm that when we were testing ULF frequencies on carp's pair of submersive HPs in his room and adjusting 5 -15 hz to 75dB test tone levels most of the guys couldn't confirm if the subs were on or off.
I agree that there are a lot of useless posts on topic this but since you mentioned my name I wanted to clear up what I said that night at carp's which was basically that I wasn't sure if the bottom two octaves made a difference to me (because I've never been around a system capable enough to do it) but that the SubM's in carp's room don't go deep enough with enough authority to be able to confirm or deny. Unfortunately it's tough to prove a negative, the only way would be to demo the scenes with and without an HPF on a system like Bosso's (or on a system that was capable down to the level you wanted to test) or to build one yourself. That's kind of where I am right now..you don't know if you want it until you've experienced it but you can't experience it if you don't build or demo such a system.
post #4494 of 16105
MrSmithers, do you remember what SPL we stopped testing the subsonic ULF frequencies at? I know we tested lots of them at 75dB, but then we started turning them up and if I remember right we ended around 85+ dB and still were unable to really tell (as a whole group) if the subs were on or off.
post #4495 of 16105
I don't recall. It turns out giving Alex the volume control for an entire day makes you unable to remember things after tongue.gif
post #4496 of 16105
Lol - Guys, as i recall we started out listening at higher volumes and then i was asked to turn the volume knob down to -40 or -50. I am not an expert on ulf, but i would think that it would become more noticeable at reference.
post #4497 of 16105
EDIT: This is a serious thread-jack. We can better flesh it out in a new thread, which I'll start when I have more actual data and pics...

Agreed. I don't check too many places here on AVS anymore, lemme know with a PM when you start this thread. There are +/- to 'controlled' directivity, just like anything else.

I have to say, when I have run highpassing on my system to cut out below 20Hz, you really miss the 15-20Hz stuff. I can't wait to hear what I am missing on some of my fav films when I can get down to just under 10Hz....

JSS
post #4498 of 16105
What is the concept of a sub that is "tuned" for a certain frequency? Example, when someone says a sub is tuned for 20hz. Does that mean it achieves the best response at that frequency?
post #4499 of 16105
I think it's time for all you single digit fellows to re-watch Superman Returns. Allow me to re-re-repost my own measurements of it. biggrin.gif

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post #4500 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post

I would love to find out what frequency the uzzi fire is as well. The Seaton Submersive alongside Catalysts 12C's has produced the best uzzi fire sound I have heard in Underworld Awakening

Just off the cuff I'd suspect it's centered above 60Hz.. Where it's more Cat than sub giving the business... Hence it being standout. Not sure what else you're listening to for comparison but there are few other main LCR arrays that have the ability to deliver that region with that level of authority regardless of what subwoofer system is in place. Having 6 high quality 12" woofers optimized to deliver all their energy above 60Hz with a ton of wattage behind them goes a LONG way to delivering a notable presentation compared to many alternatives available. The only other options that come to mind with that kind of firepower would be Danley, Commercial grade cinema (JBL, Klipsch), Possibly some genelec or Meyer offerings. Most aren't found in the typical HT setup regardless of how out of hand the subwoofer system gets.

I standby my theory that the most impressive setup will be a very high performing LCR array with a sub array that can keep up that's had some effort done integrating the two. Going too nutty on an uber subwoofer system will be a dissapointment if the LCR's poop out early.
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