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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 172

post #5131 of 16132
Anyone else find the bass in Men In Black 3 (blu-ray) way too loud? I figured it might've been my new receiver since this is the first movie I've tested it on but I dropped the gain on the receiver and the volume on the subs themselves and it was still way too loud. I then turned off one sub and left just the one on and it was still overwhelming.
post #5132 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Some of you guys are a real piece of work. You read a chart and it actually prevents you from being able to enjoy a terrific movie with great sound and impressive bass which might happen to not have a lot of content below 20hz. Absolutely ridiculous. rolleyes.gif Maybe y'all should just try to watch and enjoy the movie before looking at the charts.

I must say, this post is a riot.

The 'charts' tell me if it's worth buying or not. That's what this thread is all about.

Apparently, you prefer "Wow, it's really good! Get your copy now!", or worse yet, "Just buy it and see if you like it", but "some" of us prefer a bit more substantiation before we add another title to our library that will never get played twice, if it's alright with you, that is. rolleyes.gif

The sound design and mix supervisor is the same guy who covered those duties for Thor (Christopher Boyes) and the preliminary charts tell me that exactly the same filtering was used. The method seems to be to filter ULF to allow headroom to over blow (and even clip) 30-50 Hz.

You and others may call that "impressive bass", but then, who's the piece of work here?

I find the SL caps to be interesting and good information, as I would not have purchased Thor on BR had I been given the data up front and will not purchase Avengers for the same reason. OTOH, if you want to send me a free copy, I'll gladly ignore the charts and give it a spin. wink.gif
post #5133 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post


Apparently, you prefer "Wow, it's really good! Get your copy now!",

I know I do. A chart only tells a small part of the story. In fact I would hate to miss out on a good bass movie because some chart says it does not have much ULF.
post #5134 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

I know I do. A chart only tells a small part of the story. In fact I would hate to miss out on a good bass movie because some chart says it does not have much ULF.

Cool, where are you reviews?
post #5135 of 16132
No biggie. Don't watch the movie. Problem solved. It can't possible sound any good because it's got little or no content under 20hz.rolleyes.gif

Bosso, I'd suggest you skip watching movies altogether. Who need all that action, visuals, character developement and plot stuff. Just run videos of the waterfalls accompanied by a soundtrack of sinewave sweeps from 4 to 20hz. What could be better than that?
post #5136 of 16132
Oh, and don't forget to make some popcorn.tongue.gif
post #5137 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

No biggie. Don't watch the movie. Problem solved. It can't possible sound any good because it's got little or no content under 20hz.rolleyes.gif
Bosso, I'd suggest you skip watching movies altogether. Who need all that action, visuals, character developement and plot stuff. Just run videos of the waterfalls accompanied by a soundtrack of sinewave sweeps from 4 to 20hz. What could be better than that?

I suggest you and Gary J start a new thread; Movies We say You Should Buy.

No charts, no commentary, no rating system, just "impressive" or "not impressive".

Since neither of you have ever posted anything in this thread that's in keeping with its title and intended content, that would seem to be the logical move, no?

Oh, and, you'll probably need more than popcorn. tongue.gif

BS aside, Dr Pain MD and LFE Man have contributed monumentally to this forum. It pi$$es me off when know-it-all snarks invade the thread as a slap in the face of their efforts.
post #5138 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

I must say, this post is a riot.
The 'charts' tell me if it's worth buying or not. That's what this thread is all about.
Apparently, you prefer "Wow, it's really good! Get your copy now!", or worse yet, "Just buy it and see if you like it", but "some" of us prefer a bit more substantiation before we add another title to our library that will never get played twice, if it's alright with you, that is. rolleyes.gif
The sound design and mix supervisor is the same guy who covered those duties for Thor (Christopher Boyes) and the preliminary charts tell me that exactly the same filtering was used. The method seems to be to filter ULF to allow headroom to over blow (and even clip) 30-50 Hz.
You and others may call that "impressive bass", but then, who's the piece of work here?
I find the SL caps to be interesting and good information, as I would not have purchased Thor on BR had I been given the data up front and will not purchase Avengers for the same reason. OTOH, if you want to send me a free copy, I'll gladly ignore the charts and give it a spin. wink.gif
I understand what you are saying but aren't you losing sight of why anyone watches movies in the first place? While bass is enjoyable on a primal level an incredible movie regardless of bass can be enjoyed on a much deeper and immersive level. I can't imagine passing up an experience like 2001: A Space Odyssey simply because it has barely any (if any at all) ULF.
post #5139 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

I suggest you and Gary J start a new thread; Movies We say You Should Buy.
No charts, no commentary, no rating system, just "impressive" or "not impressive".
Since neither of you have ever posted anything in this thread that's in keeping with its title and intended content, that would seem to be the logical move, no?
Oh, and, you'll probably need more than popcorn. tongue.gif
BS aside, Dr Pain MD and LFE Man have contributed monumentally to this forum. It pi$$es me off when know-it-all snarks invade the thread as a slap in the face of their efforts.

Talk about losing sight of the forest for the trees...

Bosso, if I were going to run a study on "The Deleterious Effects of Long-Term Exposure of Ultra Low Frequencies on Normal Brain Function," I'd be citing you as an example.

Seriously folks, the charts are great for educational purposes and I do appreciate the effforts of those who post them up here, but it is absurd to judge the enjoyability of a movie from a bass-worthy standpoint purely form the absence of <20hz content in the charts.I'm as much as a bass lover as all of you here. I've had subs in my systems, both home and car, since the '80s, but taking this to the degree a demonstrated by a handful of some bass extremists here is absurdity.
post #5140 of 16132
Interesting debate(s) smile.gif

I use and value this thread more in the way it is titled, as a reference:
"which movies contain truly low bass, backed up by data from the hard work posted by others"
For this I say Thank You!! to all contributors

As for which movies to buy; I make this determination largely from many factors, for example:
the genre, what reviewers are saying, what friends have said, did I like it in the theater, did I like it on Redbox, favorite actors, etc ,etc....
occasionally (when I am on the fence about demo material) this thread then becomes a "should I buy it factor"
post #5141 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post


BS aside, Dr Pain MD and LFE Man have contributed monumentally to this forum. It pi$$es me off when know-it-all snarks invade the thread as a slap in the face of their efforts.

Check out LFE Man Bass Movie of the Week/Month in post #1. !!!
post #5142 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSW View Post

I understand what you are saying but aren't you losing sight of why anyone watches movies in the first place? While bass is enjoyable on a primal level an incredible movie regardless of bass can be enjoyed on a much deeper and immersive level. I can't imagine passing up an experience like 2001: A Space Odyssey simply because it has barely any (if any at all) ULF.

No doubt. If all Bosso or some others care about is ULF content, buy a test tone disc and just keep playing ULF tones over and over and over. This will also get rid of all the distracting visual information going on since there will be no distracting picture to deal with! rolleyes.gif

Bosso, send me your copy THOR since it is of no use to you considering there are no ULFs.....it is garbage! I will take one for the team and some how deal with it being in my collection. Happy to help out! smile.gif

Like a poster mentioned above, maybe each one of us should actually listen to the Avengers track as a whole before judging it? Crazy concept, but its worth a shot! By the way, we dont have to buy it........you can now rent movies! This is a great way to test out a movie you are not sure that you want to purchase!

rolleyes.gif

Seriously, I enjoy seeing the charts and very much appreciate the efforts of those who put them up, but some much needed perspective is in order especially when most of us have not even heard this track yet!
Edited by Toe - 9/18/12 at 6:46am
post #5143 of 16132
I guess you need a disc that just plays short clips from movies and put them all together for that ultra low stuff below 18hz....sounds enjoyable...not for me.

I do like the chart and I love bass, but it certainly isn't gonna get me real excited when there is really low stuff to be heard, since there is very little IMO...I can get down to 10 with some authority, but it makes no difference to me...99% of the movies probably don't go much below 18 anyway.

Bosso, I love your passion, but many aren't as thrilled about the ultra low stuff as you are...whether they can or not makes no difference, they just don't care...Iam one of them, but still like to see the charts, one of reasons I like this thread...but its not the deciding factor for me to buy it.
Edited by mrcoop - 9/18/12 at 7:10am
post #5144 of 16132
For all you guys who don't think under 20hz matters you can do this, just compare TIH with Thor and decide for yourselves. Both have huge amounts of bass above 20hz but TIH has lots of under 20hz which gives it that kick!

Anyways, I love movies and having bass is why I built what I did. I don't expect all movies to have ULF but they would if movies were unfiltered. The Avengers was a great comic book movie which being a guy I loved super heros as a kid so this was awesome. I will buy it for sure. I just tweaked my new front stage and watched some movies and WOW, I think I have found what I was looking for! The sound was incredible, big and poweful like the JBLs, clear and dynamic like the JTR's, and great feel like SHO-10's and triads! Anyways, I put in Avatar and forgot how awesome of a picture that has as well as great audio! The bass was actually quite impressive and I could feel everything BUT it did not have that deep stuff. I still enjoyed it and again, it had some powerful bass in spades! I then threw in LOTR and the bass was not louder at all, it was deeper with the same spl.

I buy movies because I enjoy them hoping for 5 star bass soundtracks but this thread is about finding out which ones have 5 star bass tracks which means the best of the best, ULF's included.
post #5145 of 16132
Mk, I'm definitely not in the camp who says that <20hz doesn't count, but I'm also not in the camp who thinks that if there is not <20hz present, the bass automatically sucks.

To me, the waterfall charts are for educational purposes. They help to train your ear and/or gut to better understand what's being reproduced. They do not automatically tell you how enjoyable the soundtrack is.
post #5146 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

For all you guys who don't think under 20hz matters you can do this, just compare TIH with Thor and decide for yourselves. Both have huge amounts of bass above 20hz but TIH has lots of under 20hz which gives it that kick!
Anyways, I love movies and having bass is why I built what I did. I don't expect all movies to have ULF but they would if movies were unfiltered. The Avengers was a great comic book movie which being a guy I loved super heros as a kid so this was awesome. I will buy it for sure. I just tweaked my new front stage and watched some movies and WOW, I think I have found what I was looking for! The sound was incredible, big and poweful like the JBLs, clear and dynamic like the JTR's, and great feel like SHO-10's and triads! Anyways, I put in Avatar and forgot how awesome of a picture that has as well as great audio! The bass was actually quite impressive and I could feel everything BUT it did not have that deep stuff. I still enjoyed it and again, it had some powerful bass in spades! I then threw in LOTR and the bass was not louder at all, it was deeper with the same spl.
I buy movies because I enjoy them hoping for 5 star bass soundtracks but this thread is about finding out which ones have 5 star bass tracks which means the best of the best, ULF's included.

Who is saying under 20hz doesnt matter? What me and others are saying is that just because a track stops at 20hz does not make it garbage from a LFE perspective. Thor is a great example of a filtered track that is still demo worthy in the minds of many even in light of the filtering. I agree TIH edges it out, but hell TIH edges ouy everything IMO. Both are still awesome LFE tracks overall.
post #5147 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Who is saying under 20hz doesnt matter? What me and others are saying is that just because a track stops at 20hz does not make it garbage from a LFE perspective. Thor is a great example of a filtered track that is still demo worthy in the minds of many even in light of the filtering. I agree TIH edges it out, but hell TIH edges ouy everything IMO. Both are still awesome LFE tracks overall.

I agree, BUT the reason TIH beats many is because it has a full bandwidth badass track! That is why the 5 stars are 5 stars, not only do they have that Thor 20hz and above, they have a tactile sensation and pressure you don't get with Thor, that is all I am saying. Like I said, I just watched some of Avatar and it had some nice quality bass that made my hair stand up! Add that tactile and pressure low stuff it would have been a 5! I still show the Dark Night as I demo and it is not 5 stars. I am going to start using TIH, Immortals, and Battle:LA to change things up. I know for a fact when I demo Avatar people are still blown away as the picture is so good and they still feel the bass. That also has a great score with clarity and dynamics, like Immortals! There is a sense of feel with the high end that I love. Dynamics!!! Priest has it as well! I love the sound of that thru the speakers.
post #5148 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Priest has it as well! I love the sound of that thru the speakers.

I'm planning on buying Priest, any particular scene that you recommend on this movie?
post #5149 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I agree, BUT the reason TIH beats many is because it has a full bandwidth badass track! That is why the 5 stars are 5 stars, not only do they have that Thor 20hz and above, they have a tactile sensation and pressure you don't get with Thor, that is all I am saying. Like I said, I just watched some of Avatar and it had some nice quality bass that made my hair stand up! Add that tactile and pressure low stuff it would have been a 5! I still show the Dark Night as I demo and it is not 5 stars. I am going to start using TIH, Immortals, and Battle:LA to change things up. I know for a fact when I demo Avatar people are still blown away as the picture is so good and they still feel the bass. That also has a great score with clarity and dynamics, like Immortals! There is a sense of feel with the high end that I love. Dynamics!!! Priest has it as well! I love the sound of that thru the speakers.

You have a level headed perspective on it, as do I and most others. There are a few people who blow the whole 20hz filter WAY out of perspective though and that is what gets some of us. Nobody is saying filtering is good, but we need to keep it in perspective in light of not only the audio track as a whole, but the entire movie experience as well.
post #5150 of 16132
Priest is very loud, clear, and dynamic! Any scene with audio you can feel the energy in the air(from the speakers). Immortals has it too, just watch the opening scene with the titans. You can feel the energy like a live recording, that is how I know I will like the soundtrack. As for bass, Any of the train scenes has it but I will have to watch it again to know all the spots, it has been a while. Super hero, vampires, basically any super powers(Matrix) and I like the film. If it is done well, it becomes one of my must own(The batman trilogy), Iron man, Avengers, etc... My two favorite movies for story telling are Braveheart and Gladiator. For audio they are good but not great.
post #5151 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

You have a level headed perspective on it, as do I and most others. There are a few people who blow the whole 20hz filter WAY out of perspective though and that is what gets some of us. Nobody is saying filtering is good, but we need to keep it in perspective in light of not only the audio track as a whole, but the entire movie experience as well.

Well, lets just look at the 5 star bass lists, how many movies are there? Not many at all but when we throw those in we say Man! I wish all the movies had bass like this! Many 4.5 star movies have full bandwidth as well, I think it just adds that depth to make it more real sounding. I have the luck of owning an office about 20 feet away from a road that is 40 MPH. I can hear and then feel big trucks going by all the time, I want that experience in my room! I hear them coming and then pass by, then all of a sudden my counter wobbles and nothing is heard at that time, so cool! I want cool! No to filters! I know that truck sound was not filtered and I get the whole experience, this is real life and I want my movies to be like real life, except without 150-200 dBs of real explosions, 120 dBs is just fine just keep the whole range, please? I can imagine Avatar with a full range! Look at captain America, full range bandwidth but not loud(I think). I just turn that up and now it is awesome. At least I had a choice.
post #5152 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I want my movies to be like real life, except without 150-200 dBs of real explosions, 120 dBs is just fine just keep the whole range, please?

What, you're too good for full, realistic dynamic range? You're not a real man unless you've fired off some 357 rounds with no hearing protection biggrin.gif
post #5153 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

What, you're too good for full, realistic dynamic range? You're not a real man unless you've fired off some 357 rounds with no hearing protection biggrin.gif

"WWWHHHHHHAAAAAATTTTTTT?"

biggrin.giftongue.gif
post #5154 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Well, lets just look at the 5 star bass lists, how many movies are there? Not many at all but when we throw those in we say Man! I wish all the movies had bass like this! Many 4.5 star movies have full bandwidth as well, I think it just adds that depth to make it more real sounding. I have the luck of owning an office about 20 feet away from a road that is 40 MPH. I can hear and then feel big trucks going by all the time, I want that experience in my room! I hear them coming and then pass by, then all of a sudden my counter wobbles and nothing is heard at that time, so cool! I want cool! No to filters! I know that truck sound was not filtered and I get the whole experience, this is real life and I want my movies to be like real life, except without 150-200 dBs of real explosions, 120 dBs is just fine just keep the whole range, please? I can imagine Avatar with a full range! Look at captain America, full range bandwidth but not loud(I think). I just turn that up and now it is awesome. At least I had a choice.

I get it and agree. What I dont get is the spoiled lets blow it all out of perspective "I wont even watch the movie because it does not have LFE below 20hz" mentality by some here. That is ridiculous.
post #5155 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Priest is very loud, clear, and dynamic! Any scene with audio you can feel the energy in the air(from the speakers). Immortals has it too, just watch the opening scene with the titans. You can feel the energy like a live recording, that is how I know I will like the soundtrack. As for bass, Any of the train scenes has it but I will have to watch it again to know all the spots, it has been a while. Super hero, vampires, basically any super powers(Matrix) and I like the film. If it is done well, it becomes one of my must own(The batman trilogy), Iron man, Avengers, etc... My two favorite movies for story telling are Braveheart and Gladiator. For audio they are good but not great.

Thanks for the info!

I'll have to wait a bit until Fry's has it on sale and I might buy it on 3D.......LOL*

* That will help me to increase my 3D collection.........Avengers and Prometheus are already pre-ordered.
post #5156 of 16132
I will just say to each their own. I know I will enjoy Avengers in my HT and it will still sound better than the theater, however it had the potential for the all time top bass movie, I mean it had the Hulk!
post #5157 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I will just say to each their own. I know I will enjoy Avengers in my HT and it will still sound better than the theater, however it had the potential for the all time top bass movie, I mean it had the Hulk!
HAD The Hulk, you mean the took him out of the movie. *gasp*

Please say it ain't so. tongue.gif
post #5158 of 16132
I suspect that there is a bit of creeping in of the loudness wars going on in some of these movie mixes, combined with targeting the lowest common denominator. All of that extra low bass energy sucks up headroom and signal strength. If you remove it, what the old sound guys usually call the "mud", you can mix what is left in the more audible and much more easily reproduced range just a little bit hotter, making it more impressive on the typical system that might be reproducing it. The average person buying a movie do they even have a HTIB? Maybe? Possibly a very low cost 10" sub from someplace like BB? Perhaps a small 5% amount of the total even went so far as to do some research online and bought a decent $500 subwoofer. Can you blame the mixing engineer for targeting the 95% instead of the 5% really if that is indeed part of what is going on? The average theaters certainly aren't doing much of anything below 25-30Hz either. We know at least some of the sound stages are done by 25Hz as well.

TIH has been mentioned a couple of times. I would be willing to bet that if you watch TIH on a 95% of the movie buyers system, which doesn't have any real power below 30Hz, it would not be nearly as powerful or loud subjectively. Thor on the other hand would not sound that much different and would probably be much more impressive than TIH on that type of set-up.
post #5159 of 16132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I get it and agree. What I dont get is the spoiled lets blow it all out of perspective "I wont even watch the movie because it does not have LFE below 20hz" mentality by some here. That is ridiculous.

You miss the point just to voice an irrelevant opinion.

When I say I was disappointed in the Thor soundtrack, it's because of several factors that go to poor quality. A) filtering is ridiculous, not the fact that some see it for what it is, B) Thor seems to have been filtered so that a small slice of BW could be bumped way out of proportion. Some may be oblivious to that and just dig really loud 45 Hz peaks, but others find it not so "impressive" sounding and, most importantly, C) It appears that the BR version of Thor was goosed significantly (see the comparison between the DVD and the BR below) for an unknown reason. From the SL graphs posted so far, it looks as though exactly the same thing was done with Avengers by the same team in the same sound house. Those purple peaks shown in the Thor cap below are at >+10dBFS, clipping the SL app vs the DVDs 0dBFS, which is what my settings are calibrated to show. These are not perfectly calibrated settings, but they're relative in my system for comparison.

3c4a501bcebe72a69825d2e20a3dba8d.jpg

It doesn't play well, sound good or reflect my moneys worth, regardless of BW of the content. IMO, it's severely clipped. Maybe someone with less commentary and more elbow grease like maxmercy will run the peak to average graph and investigate clipping while you pony up to buy your copy and tell us how good it sounds to you.

Another poster using my settings shows the same MO and, again, thanks for the heads up. That sort of thing is not for me and I appreciate the data before I waste the dough.

I gave flag a thumbs up for the heads up before I buy the thing for the reasons stated, not that I had to go that far into depth to defend a simple thank you post, much less being called a piece of work, ridiculous and the other similarly lame comments. I said nothing about ULF and have no idea who you're supposedly quoting in your post as no one else did either.

Buy and like whatever floats your boat. No one is blasting you for preferring a poorly done transfer. I come to this thread to get better info first, not to hear a bunch of irrelevant opinions.
post #5160 of 16132
I stand by my comments Boso. Every single time we get something like this there are a few people who blow it so far out of perspective that it is flat out ridiculous. Buy a test tone disk and just play 20hz and under test tones and be done with every other element that goes into a movie experience that apparently does not mean $hit if the low end of a track is not ****ing perfect. Give me a break!

I dont like filtering either, but Jesus how about some perspective? rolleyes.gif

Send me your copy of Thor if it is that bad so someone can enjoy it.
Edited by Toe - 9/18/12 at 12:33pm
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