The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 186

Originally Posted by bossobass 


No, J, I don't care to disclose anything you ask because you'll just look for more to ask and beat this to death.

Just because Flag lowered his levels for the 2nd run doesn't mean anything. You know this, so why use it in your query (unless you don't know this)?

Here's the SL caps of a) Thor on DVD and b) Thor on BR:



Nothing was changed except the disc. As you can see, the BR clipped mine as well as individual frequencies well exceeded 0dBFS, so be sure to factor that into your maths. The BR levels are +10dB over the DVD levels. I asked Max to look into whether or not it clips on the disc and maybe he'll get around to it and we'll go from there.

Please do not give me a tutorial on peaks and maths and channels and THX. You asked how, I just explained how... for the 2nd time.

Originally Posted by Flageborg 


No, calibrated master volume "reference level" is 115dB+++ at MV = 0 dB

Originally Posted by bossobass 


Honestly, people need to read more and skim less.

I said I was rating HG a 5 for the sole reason that it proved beyond a doubt that sound designers know exactly what content they're dealing with and that it in no way could be "unintended artifact" because someone had to spin the generator knob from 'x' Hx to 'x' Hz below 20 Hz.

It has nothing whatever to do with content or the standard star rating. It is just that it can be used heretofore as a reference to refute the incredibly errant "They can't monitor the content so everything below 20 Hz is unintended artifact", a ridiculous statement that resurfaces in some form every year since I've been a member here. That makes it a 5 score. IMO.

Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass 

Anyone else care to give this waterfall and peak/average chart a bass rating?
If I am not mistaken, the chart tells all!

Originally Posted by Flageborg 

Tomorrow I will be watching this movie, and then do some charts with SL....
http://www.elkjop.no/product/filmer-og-serier/film-blu-ray/BDVDPROMETH/prometheus-blu-ray

Originally Posted by TimVG 

Look, it's very simple. Those are opinions by people with no capability of reproducing sub 20hz content on a serious level and have no point of reference. Sure for them the midbass fest is awesome. But for those who can, and are used of producing very low content, it's very annoying to read how avengers is a 4,5 or even a 5 star bass movie. It's not. It's a 5 star mid bass movie but it's oceans away from a true, full range, non-filtered bass heavy movie with a 5 star rating. Absurd to put it on the same level as X-Men FC. Some here do have a system capable enough of reproducing said content, and we even have the objective graphs to back up our claim. Of course this one sounds as good as TIH to most folks, but let me repeat it: for those with a capable enough system, the difference couldn't be greater.
This whole star rating thing isn't working if we're totally honest. What we need is a subdivision based on actual content, not on what's popular. That way, everyone'll be happy.

Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass 

Anyone else care to give this waterfall and peak/average chart a bass rating?

If I am not mistaken, the chart tells all!

Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 

Look, everyone has their own opinion on what bass they enjoy. I mean this is an opinion thread on Bass and people give opinions. Some of the folks like deep pounding bass and others like softer bass and then there are those that enjoy nice tight bass and I am very happy with my dual PSA XV-15's. It is really interesting to get a perspective from all the angles. I myself like a nice deep punch. It's nice that you have your system tuned to 11hz and don't have the same opinion of the movie that others did, but everyone has an opinion.
Don't take this the wrong way, but some people around seem to think that this is THIER thread only just because they have more bass than others and the others opinions don't count. This is a public forum and others enjoy talking bass whether they have a $99 sub or a 10K system. Not everyone has the cash to go out and buy what it takes to duplicate bass under 20hz. The goal is to get your system to what sound good to "YOU" and it is nice to have this thread to get opinions from all the guys. Just my two pennies.

Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 

Look, everyone has their own opinion on what bass they enjoy. I mean this is an opinion thread on Bass and people give opinions. Some of the folks like deep pounding bass and others like softer bass and then there are those that enjoy nice tight bass and I am very happy with my dual PSA XV-15's. It is really interesting to get a perspective from all the angles. I myself like a nice deep punch. It's nice that you have your system tuned to 11hz and don't have the same opinion of the movie that others did, but everyone has an opinion.

Don't take this the wrong way, but some people around seem to think that this is THIER thread only just because they have more bass than others and the others opinions don't count. This is a public forum and others enjoy talking bass whether they have a $99 sub or a 10K system. Not everyone has the cash to go out and buy what it takes to duplicate bass under 20hz. The goal is to get your system to what sound good to "YOU" and it is nice to have this thread to get opinions from all the guys. Just my two pennies.

Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 

Look, everyone has their own opinion on what bass they enjoy. I mean this is an opinion thread on Bass and people give opinions. Some of the folks like deep pounding bass and others like softer bass and then there are those that enjoy nice tight bass and I am very happy with my dual PSA XV-15's. It is really interesting to get a perspective from all the angles. I myself like a nice deep punch. It's nice that you have your system tuned to 11hz and don't have the same opinion of the movie that others did, but everyone has an opinion.

Don't take this the wrong way, but some people around seem to think that this is THIER thread only just because they have more bass than others and the others opinions don't count. This is a public forum and others enjoy talking bass whether they have a $99 sub or a 10K system. Not everyone has the cash to go out and buy what it takes to duplicate bass under 20hz. The goal is to get your system to what sound good to "YOU" and it is nice to have this thread to get opinions from all the guys. Just my two pennies.

Originally Posted by bossobass 

I'm of the opinion that a spectrograph of a scene shows everything regarding content and intensity... because it does. This should be a no-brainer, but there are suddenly folks in this thread attempting to say that this simple fact is somehow not true.
How is it that your opinion is that you're sure the spectrographs of Inception "look pretty good"?

Originally Posted by djbluemax1 

Once again, no frame of reference. How is the capture setup calibrated? Those volumes are pretty low and the strongest signal is at 100Hz. But is that the movie? Or the capture setup?

Provide graphs with the same settings of some of the acknowledged 5 star scenes/movies like WOTW and TIH and we'll be able to estimate how much bass that movie does or doesn't have.


Max

Originally Posted by lfe man



If you do, make them bigger what you are used to do them and don't say that use that IE zoom function, i don't touch that pile of shite program even with long stick.

Originally Posted by bossobass 

I just wanted to clarify my stance on this Avengers soundtrack for the few who seem rabid about my opinions and especially because they've chosen to give this soundtrack a 5 star (or A level, or whatever the top rating for others may be) rating.

First, yes, this soundtrack is filtered with at least a 4th order HPF at 30 Hz. There is no question about that, so please don't try to bait me with baloney on this point.

Second, concerning the so-called filtered 5 star soundtracks claim, alleging that there are "massive" numbers or "the vast majority" of titles that fit this description and that the titles with <20 Hz content are "less than 1%" baloney, let's just try to add that claim up. There are over 1,000 titles in this Master List thread, virtually all of which have <20 Hz content. So, that would mean that there are at least 100,000 titles of 5 star filtered soundtracks available.

...right.

As far as Avengers being 5 star, I've sized and cropped the best examples of a true 5 star movie with bass to Avengers from 0 to 60 Hz. Both are mic'd at the LP at 0dBRL (reference level at my seat), with the subwoofer calibrated flat with the mains. I also zoomed in on a scene from A to show the filter estimate vs the scale I use in SL:



So, all I can say is, if A is 5 stars, TIH must be 200 stars.

With Thor, the BR is +10dB hotter than the DVD and the A graphs I did were of the DVD, so the intensity of the graph may be higher with A on BR, I don't know, but that's not gonna change anything in the comparison besides the simple fact that to most folks louder means better. Bumping the levels up changes nothing but the master volume level. It's simple enough to run my subs hot with Hulk as well, but loudness is not what I use to rate soundtracks.

Bottom line: there is no comparison whatsoever from any angle you look at it. Quantity, bandwidth, quality, enhancement of the viewing experience, added realism, etc., etc. Hulk is 5 stars, A is not. A is not 4 stars and I feel I was kind in giving it 3 stars.

Since this thread was jacked by a few haters maxmercy has pinged me to say he's done with posting peak-to-average graphs or any other graphs/tests he runs. I can't say I blame him or any of the others who've stopped posting such in this thread, but I'm taking a sentence here to ask him: Doc, please reconsider and please post the Thor PtoA graph and any future graphs you create here. I find them extremely valuable and I appreciate the time it takes to do them and post them here.

I bought this Saturday 9/29 and we watched it in our basement HT, loved the movie, loved the 7.1 sound.
My 4 kids loved "Puny God", that is their quote of the week.

Qualifier: I did NOT read any review here or the "complaint" comments in the master bass thread in the sub section till today, so my experiences were NOT biased by any pre-reading.

I did feel while bass was there, something was missing on the LFE that while not running the "experience" actually caused me to look at my EP2500 to see if it dialed it down....
(I have a 15 year old Spanish foreign exchange student living with us thru June-2013, so after his homework he sometimes plays games on the PS3 , and I showed him how to dial the amp down so the IB sub won't be a nuisance at 10pm)

Part of me hopes the producers of the blu-ray realize they "missed a LFE switch" on their mastering, fess up to it, and re-released the disc and give early buyers some exchange program.
The movie is overall that good and deserves the appropriate LFE to go with it.

Originally Posted by bsoko2 

Avengers - has been beaten to death, ressurected, then dead again and again. Can we all it DEAD?

Originally Posted by dominguez1 

Just watched the Avengers. What a HUGE disappointment! I struggle giving it 3 stars, but I guess I will.

No pressure waves, no couch wobble, no weight in the room...reminded me of a video game. What a shame.

Enjoyed the movie, but it will never make a demo list....ever. When you compare TIH with this...Avengers is a joke. 

Originally Posted by Auditor55 

WOW, comments like the above is why Auditor55 is needed in the subwoofer forum. I see I have much work to do:).

Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass 

See old posting shown below for a similar type of chart that I posted for Star Trek. A different frequency range was used on Star Trek as shown on the charts.
As usual the white line in the upper spectrogram represents "reference level" (ballpark -20 dB FS). Do you need anything else for a comparison? The amplitude graph on the right side shows composite input signal levels.
Note that Bosso adds 16 dB to his waterfalls (Offset = +16).

---

I changed the frequency range a bit, and did not resize.



Star Trek starting at 40 minutes and 15 seconds. This is the part when Sulu is introduced, the fleet warps out into space and the Enterprise follows with it's own warp (top).



The sound mixer is working all channels when they go to warp. The end result is that there is significant bass being redirected at the same time from all channels to the subwoofer.









TOP Spectrogram: White line represents estimated "Reference Level", Red line represents long term average, and Green line represents peak levels. Note that the signal generator used for the "reference level" estimate was only rated to 10 Hz.





RIGHT Amplitude Graph: Blue is left side amplitude, Red is right side amplitude, White is overlap between the two channels.







Left channel on left and Right channel on right. Seems to be some significant infra here at times (red & pink color in waterfall). A little stereo bass can be seen at times here also (compare R & L channels).



















LFE channel on left and Center channel on right. LFE channel has the highest amplitude of any channel. At times the Center channel also has a very high amount of energy relative to the Right and Left channels.



Also notice the frequency range that the LFE channel is working at high levels. Turn off your LFE channel and listen to this sample to see what that means.













Left Surround channel on left and Right Surround channel on right.

Originally Posted by MKtheater 


I still don't understand these graphs. The white line is reference but I see stuff over reference volume? I also see -20 dBs and below on the right and reference is 0 dBs.

BTW are all the peak and average graphs running at reference so when I see a -5 dBs at 30 hz I know it is playing 110 dBs max peak(highest possible 118 dBs with all channels rerouted and active)?

Originally Posted by bcrowso 

Hate to be blunt, but this is an enthusiast's thread about bass WITH frequency charts- not how dope does your soundbar system rock your mom's basement. I have been following this thread since the old thread and have enjoyed seeing what the people with sub 20hz setups think of various soundtracks coupled with frequency charts..... honestly, I could care less about what someone with a 99 dollar sub who likes "softer bass" thinks of a sound track. And it has nothing to do with money spent: I scored an new old stock 15" adire tempest as well as a 300 watt bash plate amp on craigslist for 50 bucks. Coupled with a used behringer parametric eq in a 214 liter sonotube tuned to 15 hz in a dedicated sound proofed theater room with ~18 total linear feet of superchunk basstrapping and countless hours of eq tuning I feel i can somewhat hang with the sub 20 hz crowd (flat to ~13 hx with room gain). Rambling aside I have never felt this to be an "elitist" thread- simply one that offers objective data coupled with a vast knowledge base- please let's keep it as such.... I have learned a great deal over the years in this thread alone!

Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 

Oh I'm sorry, I read it wrong, This is the Enthusiast thread with charts. Gotcha! So only Enthusiast need apply right?

Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 

Oh I'm sorry, I read it wrong, This is the Enthusiast thread with charts. Gotcha! So only Enthusiast need apply right?

Originally Posted by raistline 

Can't we all just get along and stop this pointless bickering and these venomous comments. Really now, what is the point in this comment here other than to insight a quarrelsome response. I think everyone would be best served if you and others stopped with these kind of arguments.
I am sure that I am not the only one who is sick of this 20+ page argument of back and forth riddled with nothing but ridicule and piousness.
Please, I beg of you, everyone. Let's just get back on the primary subject matter of this forum and agree to disagree about what each individual person finds to be most pertinent.

Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass 





See old posting shown below for a similar type of chart that I posted for Star Trek. A different frequency range was used on Star Trek as shown on the charts.

As usual the white line in the upper spectrogram represents "reference level" (ballpark -20 dB FS). Do you need anything else for a comparison? The amplitude graph on the right side shows composite input signal levels.

Note that Bosso adds 16 dB to his waterfalls (Offset = +16).

---

I changed the frequency range a bit, and did not resize.



Star Trek starting at 40 minutes and 15 seconds. This is the part when Sulu is introduced, the fleet warps out into space and the Enterprise follows with it's own warp (top).



The sound mixer is working all channels when they go to warp. The end result is that there is significant bass being redirected at the same time from all channels to the subwoofer.









TOP Spectrogram: White line represents estimated "Reference Level", Red line represents long term average, and Green line represents peak levels. Note that the signal generator used for the "reference level" estimate was only rated to 10 Hz.





RIGHT Amplitude Graph: Blue is left side amplitude, Red is right side amplitude, White is overlap between the two channels.







Left channel on left and Right channel on right. Seems to be some significant infra here at times (red & pink color in waterfall). A little stereo bass can be seen at times here also (compare R & L channels).



















LFE channel on left and Center channel on right. LFE channel has the highest amplitude of any channel. At times the Center channel also has a very high amount of energy relative to the Right and Left channels.



Also notice the frequency range that the LFE channel is working at high levels. Turn off your LFE channel and listen to this sample to see what that means.













Left Surround channel on left and Right Surround channel on right.