The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 238

Nice try but you are making statements relative to a flat response ("you don't have to run the subs hot to get full effects or[sic] that scene." ) and you are nowhere near it.

Hows so? 105db is 105db @ 20hz, no matter if 100hz is 95db the effects are the same if you are talking about the 20hz content.

But the overall effect of the scene will be different relative to a flat response.

 

Take WOTW Pod scene for example. As an extreme, if 21hz to 100hz was 15db down compared to 20hz and below, you would most definitely notice the ULF effect more. However, if everything was flat, the ULF would not be as prevalent; as the above 20hz would mask the ULF (relative to it running the ULF hot).

 

Yes, 105db at 20hz is the same output in both instances, but the combined effect and relative sound and tactile feeling of each curve would be perceived much differently.

And that's all fine, Dave, but it's still about double the actual volume of somebody with a flat response listening at reference. That's a big difference!

JD,
You should have said that we should try listening to it with a house curve and then it sounds incredible. I watched Captain America hot and the LFE was great, same for amazing Spider-Man. At reference they were both OK and at least full bandwidth. I course running hot for me goes for all movies like WOTW so I can still compare fairly. I just feel and here any movie with bass.

So are we saying that if on average we watch most movies at -10dB, and we want reference gain for LFE, then we should run +10 on the sub channel. Does not sound right to me.

Yes that is right, but the response for the LFE still needs to be flat and you better have speakers to keep up or they will get drowned out. The whole point of HT is that we can watch any way we want but if we want to compare we need to have a reference poin and since there is a reference level it makes things easier.

I watch many movies at -8 to -15dB. Running the sub this hot (+8 - +15dB) would make it a horrible experience, at least for me. I can imagine it would be like watching movies in a done out show car with Cerwin Vegas.

By the way, does Audyssey not tweak LFE channel somewhat when it knows you are at -15dB and output accordingly somewhat?

Not everyone runs room correction, but even for those that do, if they change the trim levels post setup, Audyssey won't override them. So, no.

You need better mains or something. I can run my subs 10 dBs hot and it still sounds awesome! Of course the subs are flat within their band but the speakers keep up in dynamics anyways.



This is with a 80hz crossover and mains on. +/- 2.5 dBs from 6-100hz.

I don't use room correction.

I am not sure how someone can determine if others need better mains from that statement. Good one.

Yes those cerwin wegas sounded awesome to the acne nosed dude with the mullet hair doo too.

Glad you enjoy your system at +10dB on LFE.

bass frequencies that are flat but 10 dBs louder should not sound bad, just louder and in a proper room they should not drown out the speakers, vocals, etc... If they do then something is wrong with the setup, either subs, room, speakers, etc... It could be a peak or null or something.

BTW, it is just a guess. How does anyone determine what is good, most people stick speakers and subs in their living rooms and claim miracles anyways. We get so many opinions and comparisons of speakers and subs and most of the time they don't even know why things sound different and claim one to be better than another without making things on a level playing field. I know this because I was one of them and was scrutinized so I started to get more precise in my comparisons. Measurements can tell you many things and why certain things sound better than others. Why me, well I post many times and try many things and share my experiences. Warts and all.

I would go with Mark Seaton, who has seen many a room, who said he has never seen one that would not benefit from electronic room correction.

Well, I use EQ, just manually. My room keeps the response the same at every seat when I EQ the main LP. It is a beautiful thing. Well not exactly the same but within a certain range to be inaudible. Our mics measure more accurately than we can hear. Variances within a certain +/- range can't be heard. Of course everyone is different.

If you have Audyssey Dynamic EQ engaged then yes Audyssey is constantly tweaking lfe as well as other frequencies so as to keep it as realistic sounding at lower volumes as it would if played back at reference. I think that's why it would sound horrible if you were to run your sub 10db hot and engage dynamic EQ at the same time.
My understanding is that the closer the volume is turned towards reference the less dynamic EQing Audyssey is applying and once reference level is reached no dynamic EQing is being applied.
I'm purely talking about the Audyssey Dynamic EQ function. Audyssey room correction has to have been run for the dynamic EQ function to work.
Edited by crazy4daisy - 2/22/13 at 1:51pm

That is what I thought. Running at +10dB LFE and listening at -10dB volume at 19 minutes in Cloverfield is asking trouble ain't it? lol I just assumed most people would use Audyssey. I paid for a decent receiver, it has tools to help me tweak room variances. Personally, I would use it.

Not if you have enough woofage (headroom)

Think of it as Dynamic EQ for abused ears.

Alright. Who has enough headroom to take on @edoggrc51's challenge? Volume at 0dB. LFE at +10dB.

Scenes:

WOTW where the alien pod first emerges from the ground

Cloverfield at 19:30 and watch for 4 mins

Disclaimer: if you are not familiar with these scenes, do not try this at home. Some users have reported not daring to go past -10dB on WOTW let alone at reference and +10 LFE.

Should be great if a system can handle if.

Hey hey! I said volume at -10 with subs 10bd's hot. lol

I have done that plenty of times. I did it for WOTW and FOTP as well. I even showed a video at one time peaking the meter. Let me get you some data.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kgUbAeoI7U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp4jY3rJya4&feature=endscreen&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG0qBO4W3Wo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGf32aDeLc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pi3k3aP4FA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oADUmJGetXc

I understand what both of you are saying, but wouldn't watching the scene with a house curve where the loudest base frequency is @ reference have less tactile effects then a ruler flat room response @ reference?

will there be any updates made to the master list as movies come out? i have a few that should be added (im sure im not alone) would i post that here or i.m. the op?

what is the latest??

The problem is that your 20hz will be much louder than a flat response 20hz and the midbass will be lower. Normally you would get strong say 20-40hz in a scene with 5-10hz components involved but you are making the 5-10hz stronger so it will feel stronger down low in your room. I like that myself but that is not a flat response at reference. I know what you are doing and it does sound awesome like that because what you are bumping up is all the pressure, tactile, effects and the audible range is still heard nicely.

After posting all those videos I forgot how much time I used to spend down there. Those videos were done with my JBL 3622N's and 8 sealed eD 190v2's all powered with EP-2500's and an Ada processor at the helm.

Just in case someone is interested - The Art of Flight is available for streaming at Netflix (HD and 5.1)!

That is good to know. One of my absolute favorite blu rays for A/V. Well worth streaming if you have Netflix, but dont know if you want to buy the disc or not.

Watched Sinister last night and while not the lowest or loudest LFE out there, there was plenty of it and it was used VERY well I thought as it felt like its own character in the film and really helped pull me in. There is one great LFE scene toward the end as well which is worth mentioning (not CitW great, but still very good).

I am really curious about the upcoming Wreck it Ralph as far as LFE. Could go either way obviously, but if anyone happens to get this early, I would love to hear your thoughts on the low end.

Dredd - four stars from me. Almost four and a half. More loud than low, for the most part.

The classroom scene was the most fun I've had in a while. Nothing audible, no pressurization in this room, just a subtle trembling of the couch indicating the tapped horns were letting loose with the really low content. Very effective, I thought.

Your school of thought and mine seems pretty much the same. Flat does nothing for me.