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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 291

post #8701 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

OZ

Tornado



Fireworks



Witch fight


While nothing near the brick wall that Avengers employed, there does seem to be a shallow high pass being used here. Lots of output 20 and above (especially 30 and above) and a good deal less below 20.
post #8702 of 16212
Thanks for the Oz graphs, MK. They confirm what I experienced on a 3-5hz capable system. It is a good bass movie, but it in no way compares to the heavy hitters because it has no substantial ULF effects. It's more along the lines of a 4 to 4.5 star movie, due to the strongest content being 30-50hz. Really good sound mix in general, and the visuals were pretty good, too. I didn't hate the movie like some others, but it's not gonna win any awards for scripting/acting/directing.
post #8703 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Thanks for the Oz graphs, MK. They confirm what I experienced on a 3-5hz capable system. It is a good bass movie, but it in no way compares to the heavy hitters because it has no substantial ULF effects. It's more along the lines of a 4 to 4.5 star movie, due to the strongest content being 30-50hz. Really good sound mix in general, and the visuals were pretty good, too. I didn't hate the movie like some others, but it's not gonna win any awards for scripting/acting/directing.

Yea I thought the script was not good and James Franco put out a sub par performance. As we can see from MK's graphs at least it had some decent bass.
post #8704 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Yea I thought the script was not good and James Franco put out a sub par performance. As we can see from MK's graphs at least it had some decent bass.

I particularly liked the fireworks lfe. The 40-60 Hz slams were on par for a lifelike sound IMO
post #8705 of 16212
My favorite bass in OZ was the witch fight at the end. That 30-20hz sweep is my favorite effect when the bad witch tried to drop the ceiling on the good witches head. Yes, under 20hz is -15 dBs from reference so 10-20hz requires 100 dBs. This is why, while not accurate, running my subs LFE 10 dBs hot for these kind of movies helps so much. It makes the movie have 115 dBs from 10-20hz and 130 dBs above! Of course you need some woofs for this. With movies like WOTW it is already 115 dBs at 5-20hz and why 5 stars. It also has the 120 dBs 20hz and above so you can see how graphs can really help rate movies without guessing. Every good bass movie has 120 dBs above 30hz, it is the extension and proper use that makes movies better than others.
post #8706 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

My favorite bass in OZ was the witch fight at the end. That 30-20hz sweep is my favorite effect when the bad witch tried to drop the ceiling on the good witches head. Yes, under 20hz is -15 dBs from reference so 10-20hz requires 100 dBs. This is why, while not accurate, running my subs LFE 10 dBs hot for these kind of movies helps so much. It makes the movie have 115 dBs from 10-20hz and 130 dBs above! Of course you need some woofs for this. With movies like WOTW it is already 115 dBs at 5-20hz and why 5 stars. It also has the 120 dBs 20hz and above so you can see how graphs can really help rate movies without guessing. Every good bass movie has 120 dBs above 30hz, it is the extension and proper use that makes movies better than others.

Yea I was hesitant on spoilers but o well. The green lightning laser whatever that came out of the bad witches hands was cool. My UMM-6 will arrive sometime in the far future and I can get started on generating some graphs
post #8707 of 16212
What program do you use to generate these graphs?
post #8708 of 16212
Spec lab
post #8709 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Yea I was hesitant on spoilers but o well. The green lightning laser whatever that came out of the bad witches hands was cool. My UMM-6 will arrive sometime in the far future and I can get started on generating some graphs

That is not a spoiler, you expect some kind of fight and besides, this is a prequel and know what happens to each witch anyways.
post #8710 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Spec lab

Does spec lab run on Mac OS? If not perhaps a cheap windows notebook would be good since everything else will run on windows. Is spec lab similar to REW?
post #8711 of 16212
It is not similar to REW, I think is works fine on MacOS as Bosso uses a Mac, I believe. I tried to copy his settings because of the higher resolution. You sacrifice transients.
post #8712 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Does spec lab run on Mac OS? If not perhaps a cheap windows notebook would be good since everything else will run on windows. Is spec lab similar to REW?

1) SpecLab does not run on Mac. It's Win/Linux.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It is not similar to REW, I think is works fine on MacOS as Bosso uses a Mac, I believe. I tried to copy his settings because of the higher resolution. You sacrifice transients.

It only lists "Windows 98, 2000, ME, XP (home and professional), Linux/WINE, but obviously not under Windows Vista." on its download page at http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.html. Perhaps it can work in a virtual OS?

2) A cheap windows notebook will likely not have a sound card adequate for (or even capable of) SpecLab measurements. This is the problem I've run into on mine, and why I use a USB sound card for REW measurements. It's technically possible to get SpecLab to work, using their audio utility control panel, but I haven't figured out how to get it to work with my 4yo Win7/Intel Celeron netbook's integrated software-based sound.

3) SpecLab is nothing like REW. It's much less user friendly, and much more technical. If REW is highly technical to you, SpecLab will be too much. wink.gif
post #8713 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

1) SpecLab does not run on Mac. It's Win/Linux.
It only lists "Windows 98, 2000, ME, XP (home and professional), Linux/WINE, but obviously not under Windows Vista." on its download page at http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.html. Perhaps it can work in a virtual OS?

2) A cheap windows notebook will likely not have a sound card adequate for (or even capable of) SpecLab measurements. This is the problem I've run into on mine, and why I use a USB sound card for REW measurements. It's technically possible to get SpecLab to work, using their audio utility control panel, but I haven't figured out how to get it to work with my 4yo Win7/Intel Celeron netbook's integrated software-based sound.

3) SpecLab is nothing like REW. It's much less user friendly, and much more technical. If REW is highly technical to you, SpecLab will be too much. wink.gif

Well I have poked around REW but my mic is still back ordered. Learning new software is something I rather enjoy and consider myself a tetchy person. Are there any benefits over REW or will REW be fine for the basic measurements desired in a general sense?
post #8714 of 16212
Thanks for the clarification Nube. I was guessing. Yes, REW is much easier to figure out than speclab.
post #8715 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Well I have poked around REW but my mic is still back ordered. Learning new software is something I rather enjoy and consider myself a tetchy person. Are there any benefits over REW or will REW be fine for the basic measurements desired in a general sense?

REW and SpecLab are made for two entirely different purposes. REW lets you measure your audio system's response (and all sorts of other things) with a fair amount of ease. SpecLab only measures the frequencies and their amplitude in particular content, whatever it is. You use REW for your system, and SpecLab for the content.

To my knowledge, only one person on these forums (bossobass) has combined the two programs to measure his system's response, the content, then his system's reproduction of that content. As I understand it, MK is gearing up to start doing this as well.
post #8716 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

REW and SpecLab are made for two entirely different purposes. REW lets you measure your audio system's response (and all sorts of other things) with a fair amount of ease. SpecLab only measures the frequencies and their amplitude in particular content, whatever it is. You use REW for your system, and SpecLab for the content.

To my knowledge, only one person on these forums (bossobass) has combined the two programs to measure his system's response, the content, then his system's reproduction of that content. As I understand it, MK is gearing up to start doing this as well.

Ah I see. So more options with both. Perhaps down the road I may do spec labs. But I have a Mac mini so I would have to get another unit to do so.
post #8717 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It is not similar to REW, I think is works fine on MacOS as Bosso uses a Mac, I believe. I tried to copy his settings because of the higher resolution. You sacrifice transients.

Hi James,

Transients are recorded in max's peak vs average graphs. The higher resolution to low single digits is preferred in the waterfall graphs. I've compared all settings and with all windowing and my conclusion, obviously, was to opt for the settings I now use because of the huge increase in resolution down low.

You def need to play with your 'offset' setting to get the intensity set right. There is virtually no soundtrack with individual frequencies at +5dBFS and if there were, it most certainly would not be Avengers. wink.gif

Your intensity settings make Avengers look like a monster bass movie and the reality is that it's a w-e-a-k bass movie at best, with filtering well above 20 Hz.

Here's a comparo of the fight scene in HULK vs most of the battle scene in Avengers. The settings were the same for both mic'ing the system at the LP. I slowed the scroll speed for both soundtracks to get more data in the graph and to show the obvious filtering of the A soundtrack. I also zoomed one of the A soundtrack snips to analyze the filter:



Hulk has a few frequencies that tickle -5dBFS and Avengers is around -7dB below that level with 2-1/2 octaves less bandwidth.
post #8718 of 16212
I like the higher Rez settings and know Maxmercy captures the transients. I know I need to lower the input some. If I redo TIH and WOTW it would give a good comparison but I will lower input. Since I can not compensate for rolloff under 5hz I will have to calibrate a 10hz
0 dBFs signal. I used a 3 hz 0 dbFs signal so when it hit purple I was good but everything above 5 hz will get more purple as shown.
post #8719 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post


Hi James,

Transients are recorded in max's peak vs average graphs. The higher resolution to low single digits is preferred in the waterfall graphs. I've compared all settings and with all windowing and my conclusion, obviously, was to opt for the settings I now use because of the huge increase in resolution down low.

You def need to play with your 'offset' setting to get the intensity set right. There is virtually no soundtrack with individual frequencies at +5dBFS and if there were, it most certainly would not be Avengers. wink.gif

Your intensity settings make Avengers look like a monster bass movie and the reality is that it's a w-e-a-k bass movie at best, with filtering well above 20 Hz.

Here's a comparo of the fight scene in HULK vs most of the battle scene in Avengers. The settings were the same for both mic'ing the system at the LP. I slowed the scroll speed for both soundtracks to get more data in the graph and to show the obvious filtering of the A soundtrack. I also zoomed one of the A soundtrack snips to analyze the filter:



Hulk has a few frequencies that tickle -5dBFS and Avengers is around -7dB below that level with 2-1/2 octaves less bandwidth.

MK, thanks again for your graphs. I was trying to make this point subtly before, but know there's a lot of work that you put into it, and didn't want to point this out when I was not 100% sure.

 

Bosso, thanks for chiming in as well. I knew Avengers was anemic in the ULF department, and your representation of Avengers matches much more of what I experienced on my system.

 

Oz now makes more sense as well. It felt more like a Thor/Underworld type movie to me, as compared to a TIH or WOTW. MK's graph showed some serious activity to 5hz, and it just didn't seem to come across that way for me.

post #8720 of 16212
When I lower the input the change will be about 5 dBs so any dark red will turn to red. The purple will turn to pink or white.
post #8721 of 16212
Just call me mr. Purple. Kidding!
post #8722 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Just call me mr. Purple. Kidding!

Nice
post #8723 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Just call me mr. Purple. Kidding!

"You're not Mr. Purple. Some other guy, on some other job is Mr. Purple. You're Mr. Pink!!!"
post #8724 of 16212
Thanks for posting those graphs. I was under the impression from other posts on the forum that Avengers was filtered at 30 hz. There seems to be some good bass down to 20 hz in the film. Much better than I was expecting!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Avengers

Shield collapsed cave



Hulk smashing big alien



Thor lands on plane



Iron Man hits thor and lands in forest



Thor's Hammer VS Cap's Shield

post #8725 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post

Thanks for posting those graphs. I was under the impression from other posts on the forum that Avengers was filtered at 30 hz. There seems to be some good bass down to 20 hz in the film. Much better than I was expecting!
No, see bosso's post above. Mk is running too hot on his graphs.
post #8726 of 16212
if man of steel isn't filtered it will be like 2 hours straight of ULF bass.
post #8727 of 16212
Thanks for bringing that to my attention dominguez1. I was thinking to myself bring on the bass before I took a good look at bosso's post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

No, see bosso's post above. Mk is running too hot on his graphs.
post #8728 of 16212
It seems my rolloff compensation is not working and my sound card has a 10 dB per octave rolloff starting at 20hz. So this means I am only 20 dBs hot! Disregard all graphs until I get this right. Everything is right except level. I used 5 hz to calibrate not knowing it was 20 dBs down. When I add my compensation file it turns everything purple so something is wrong.
post #8729 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

if man of steel isn't filtered it will be like 2 hours straight of ULF bass.

Saw that in theaters this past Sunday. The action in that movie was borderline ridiculous.

I tried to enjoy it, but they had it LOUD and it felt like this particular theater was neutered more than most.

Should be fun if the content is there. At least more enjoyable IMHO.
post #8730 of 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Saw that in theaters this past Sunday. The action in that movie was borderline ridiculous.

I tried to enjoy it, but they had it LOUD and it felt like this particular theater was neutered more than most.

Should be fun if the content is there. At least more enjoyable IMHO.

Was it an IMAX? Or regular?
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