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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 316

post #9451 of 16116
I am going out right now and buying this movie. Can you guys feel that explosion at the end? I mean really feel it? If so then it has to be louder than 20 dBs under reference. I start to feel things at 115 dBs and above. I will let you guys know later.
post #9452 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

JWagstaff's post above answers your question. smile.gif

Interesting, so you ate saying distance doesn't affect what you hear!

http://sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm
post #9453 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am going out right now and buying this movie. Can you guys feel that explosion at the end? I mean really feel it? If so then it has to be louder than 20 dBs under reference. I start to feel things at 115 dBs and above. I will let you guys know later.

I could definitely feel the end explosion, but it was no WOTW/FOTP type feel.
post #9454 of 16116
FOTP hits 120-122 dBs on my meter.

WSE, distance only tells you how much power you will need.
post #9455 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Interesting, so you ate saying distance doesn't affect what you hear!

http://sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm

no, your receiver calibrates for distance so reference is the same level.
post #9456 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Interesting, so you ate saying distance doesn't affect what you hear!

http://sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm

What I am saying is that assuming you are calibrated to reference level and you then listen at reference level and find this hurts your ears, it is not because you are 8.5' away from whatever speakers you are using (B&W in your case) but some other reason.

What is considered too loud and painful as far as your hearing is certainly somewhat dependent on the person as well. For example, my ex had two daughters and the younger one found my normal listening level uncomfortable while the older one loved it and they would argue at times about where the volume should be (we would of course turn it down a bit so nobody was uncomfortable). Me, the ex and the older daughter would always listen at reference if the younger one was not there since we loved it at that volume and it was not uncomfortable to us. Just one example and I could give others.

Having said that, there are a number of variables that can make reference level painful to your ears and obviously you should turn it down in that case.

I assume you are calibrated and know what reference level is in your setup?
post #9457 of 16116
Oblivion was terrific! Holy cow what a great home theater experience and I loved the movie.

HSU ULS 15 X 5
post #9458 of 16116
Oblivion has some of the most complex bass passages I've heard going at one time while being pitch perfect down to WOTW subterranean levels. Forget about the so so comments on this movie's sound track being low ( doing so will damage something) also forget about it being anything under 5 stars ( this will cause you to rent instead of buying) this is a challenging soundtrack its flat out taunt, tight , impactful and extremely immersive, The lows are atmospheric and slide in on a moments notice and slam you ! and while that is occurring, the lows are still intact and the soundtrack ( which is nice and has its own lows) is still going, this is Fidelity in its purest form.

Slap this one way up on the 5 star list, if not I'll settle for a 5.5 biggrin.gif
post #9459 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

What I am saying is that assuming you are calibrated to reference level and you then listen at reference level and find this hurts your ears, it is not because you are 8.5' away from whatever speakers you are using (B&W in your case) but some other reason.

What is considered too loud and painful as far as your hearing is certainly somewhat dependent on the person as well. For example, my ex had two daughters and the younger one found my normal listening level uncomfortable while the older one loved it and they would argue at times about where the volume should be (we would of course turn it down a bit so nobody was uncomfortable). Me, the ex and the older daughter would always listen at reference if the younger one was not there since we loved it at that volume and it was not uncomfortable to us. Just one example and I could give others.

Having said that, there are a number of variables that can make reference level painful to your ears and obviously you should turn it down in that case.

I assume you are calibrated and know what reference level is in your setup?

Yes my system is calibrated for me listening at reference level is too loud! Which is why the volume never goes above -20!
post #9460 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

What I am saying is that assuming you are calibrated to reference level and you then listen at reference level and find this hurts your ears, it is not because you are 8.5' away from whatever speakers you are using (B&W in your case) but some other reason.

What is considered too loud and painful as far as your hearing is certainly somewhat dependent on the person as well. For example, my ex had two daughters and the younger one found my normal listening level uncomfortable while the older one loved it and they would argue at times about where the volume should be (we would of course turn it down a bit so nobody was uncomfortable). Me, the ex and the older daughter would always listen at reference if the younger one was not there since we loved it at that volume and it was not uncomfortable to us. Just one example and I could give others.

Having said that, there are a number of variables that can make reference level painful to your ears and obviously you should turn it down in that case.

I assume you are calibrated and know what reference level is in your setup?

Yes my system is calibrated for me listening at reference level is too loud! Which is why the volume never goes above -20!



A lot of receivers do not calibrate 0 dB on the receiver's master volume readout as "reference level". For my receiver, -22 dB represents calibrated "reference level". My typical "loud" volume setting is about 5 dB below "reference level" (or about -27.5 dB on the master volume).

As a further note, my old 2 channel Pioneer receiver reduced volume level by 20 dB when the mute button was activated. Listening to movies (DVD / blueray) at 20 dB below reference level is a very low listening level for movies.
post #9461 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Yes my system is calibrated for me listening at reference level is too loud! Which is why the volume never goes above -20!

Is "0" reference level in your setup?
post #9462 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

bosso,

I think your settings on SL are too hot. For comparison's sake, I've highlighted the hottest part of that final explosion in your last graph that shows as 0dBfs in your pic, and graphed it direct from the disc with 0 offset in the below pic:



Looks to me like you're about +16 over what's on the disc. Oblivion just ain't that hot, and certainly not purples hot in every scene or anywhere close to it. Since we've briefly discussed this before on the D-B.com forums, I think it must happen through a combination of running your system hot and using too much offset.

Every one of my caps are digital direct from the disc, but I do a +9 offset to make them more viewable (not including the one in this post, which is 0 offset, exact bit-for-bit what's on the BR disc). More offset makes movies look more impressive, but kinda misrepresents what's actually on the disc, ya know?



Bosso does not calibrate his levels, so 0 dB does not represent 0 dBFS on any of his charts.
post #9463 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

What I am saying is that assuming you are calibrated to reference level and you then listen at reference level and find this hurts your ears, it is not because you are 8.5' away from whatever speakers you are using (B&W in your case) but some other reason.

What is considered too loud and painful as far as your hearing is certainly somewhat dependent on the person as well. For example, my ex had two daughters and the younger one found my normal listening level uncomfortable while the older one loved it and they would argue at times about where the volume should be (we would of course turn it down a bit so nobody was uncomfortable). Me, the ex and the older daughter would always listen at reference if the younger one was not there since we loved it at that volume and it was not uncomfortable to us. Just one example and I could give others.

Having said that, there are a number of variables that can make reference level painful to your ears and obviously you should turn it down in that case.

I assume you are calibrated and know what reference level is in your setup?

How does room treatments and dealing with reflections and cleaning things up play into this? Perhaps some loud first reflections or a non flat eq could make it unpleasureable?
post #9464 of 16116
Double post
Edited by Toe - 8/9/13 at 1:52am
post #9465 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

How does room treatments and dealing with reflections and cleaning things up play into this? Perhaps some loud first reflections or a non flat eq could make it unpleasureable?

Absolutely. I noticed a significant difference in my room when I added first reflection panels, bass traps, velvet (this was to kill light from my screen and I don't know what it does as far as deadening the room so this may or may not be a factor) and eq. What was once a bright more harsh type of listening environment went to a much warmer much more comfortable audio experience.

Also, moving from a low output receiver to separates and my much more powerful stand alone amp allowed me to turn the volume up more since my speakers were powered much more efficiently and the sound was noticeably cleaner at higher volume levels as a result.

Before doing all this, reference level would not have been near as pleasant in this room and I would not be surprised if my normal listening levels were -5 to -10db below ref instead of right at it. Music and concerts were/are an even more noticeable improvement over movies.



To stay on topic, has anyone seen Attack the Block and if so is this a decent LFE film? Just got this from Netflix and have not heard much about it.
post #9466 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

To stay on topic, has anyone seen Attack the Block and if so is this a decent LFE film? Just got this from Netflix and have not heard much about it.
Don't remember about the LFE but the movie wasn't half bad.
post #9467 of 16116
You guys really need to start checking Josh Ricci's data-bass.com forums where pretty much every bass movie you've ever wondered about is digitally measured direct from the disc and scored on an objective ranking system. Just please leave all the hyperbolic exaggeration and OMG OMG OMG's stuff out of the discussion - that's what this thread is for. wink.gif
post #9468 of 16116
^^^ the hyperbole is a bit over the top.
post #9469 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Is "0" reference level in your setup?

Just so we are clear reference level is 85db?
post #9470 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

You guys really need to start checking Josh Ricci's data-bass.com forums where pretty much every bass movie you've ever wondered about is digitally measured direct from the disc and scored on an objective ranking system. Just please leave all the hyperbolic exaggeration and OMG OMG OMG's stuff out of the discussion - that's what this thread is for. wink.gif

Nube, what are the chances of getting Hellboy 2 put through the data-bass scale by one of you guys over there? I know this track won't measure up to the big boys, but I am still curious where it would rank (3-4 range overall score would be my guess) on that system.
post #9471 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Just so we are clear reference level is 85db?

I know its 85 going off Avia which is how I am calibrated.
post #9472 of 16116
yea 85 dB, 105 dB peak max

sub is 95 dB, 115 dB peak max
post #9473 of 16116
You guys need to know that the movies ranked 3.5 and higher at DB will be one awesome bass movie! We needed to really know the differences of each movie and which movies are actually really recorded with deeper, louder, and more bass.
post #9474 of 16116
Toe,

It's really maxmercy's project - he deserves a lot of credit for determining how to measure bass content objectively. He's the smart, motivated, and accomplished young man who's figured all of this out. I've lauded him plenty in the past but, really, he deserves a few beers. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the industry could benefit from a guy like this in their stables. He hasn't stopped at merely measuring that content.

Anyway, I can try to dig out Hellboy 1 & 2 discs and get them into the data-bass, but it'll be next week (at least) before I can measure. Going backpacking up into the Sangre De Cristos for the weekend, starting in T minus 3hrs and counting...

JWagstaff,
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

yea 85 dB, 105 dB peak max

sub is 95 dB, 115 dB peak max

Right, for the individual, discrete channels that is correct as reference levels, but not the max possible. With bass management (redirection from the other channels), 7.1 mixes can ask for up to 128dB peaks and 5.1 mixes can ask for up to 126dB peaks from your subs.
post #9475 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Toe,

It's really maxmercy's project - he deserves a lot of credit for determining how to measure bass content objectively. He's the smart, motivated, and accomplished young man who's figured all of this out. I've lauded him plenty in the past but, really, he deserves a few beers. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the industry could benefit from a guy like this in their stables. He hasn't stopped at merely measuring that content.

Anyway, I can try to dig out Hellboy 1 & 2 discs and get them into the data-bass, but it'll be next week (at least) before I can measure. Going backpacking up into the Sangre De Cristos for the weekend, starting in T minus 3hrs and counting...

JWagstaff,
Right, for the individual, discrete channels that is correct as reference levels, but not the max possible. With bass management (redirection from the other channels), 7.1 mixes can ask for up to 128dB peaks and 5.1 mixes can ask for up to 126dB peaks from your subs.

Major props to Maxmercy. wink.gif Is he going to Cedia next month by chance? If so, I would love to meet him and buy him a drink. I know you and others have put a lot of time and effort into that thread as well though and just know a lot of us bass heads VERY much appreciate and have enjoyed your efforts. Thanks!

Edit: Just hit that thread for the first time in a few weeks and it looks like the movie I was asking about above (Attack the Block) has been measured.......nice! Looking forward to watching that more now.

No worries on HB2. If you find time at some point, that would be great and much appreciated. Enjoy your backpacking trip which sounds awesome. We are hiking up to Chasm Lake which sits directly below the infamous Longs Peak tom which I have done many times, but it just gets more beautiful each trip it seems! smile.gif
post #9476 of 16116
Is the movie Flight of the Phoenix a good movie or is it just good for the Bass demo?
post #9477 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

yea 85 dB, 105 dB peak max

sub is 95 dB, 115 dB peak max
I thought it was 75db all around.
post #9478 of 16116
Jimmy steward's was better.
post #9479 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

I thought it was 75db all around.

75 dB is usually the SPL the avr's pink noise is while calibrating. It calibrates at that level so that it doesn't blow speakers/ isn't too loud. So basically it's being calibrated at -30 dB. Same with the sub, but then the LFE channel is at +10 dB compared to the speakers.
post #9480 of 16116
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

Is the movie Flight of the Phoenix a good movie or is it just good for the Bass demo?

I believe it's a consensus number two pick. The plane crash scene Can be argued as the best bass demo there is
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