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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 325

post #9721 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

That's interesting, I got the dvd of Olympus Has Fallen twice now, hoping the third is the bluray. OTOH I did get the bluray of the Phantom and was just wondering just how that measured...
4.75 on the b-b.com scale. But a few instances of latent clipping

Thanks, just saw your post. Clipping I thought were from my lesser subs....
post #9722 of 16101
Yep, Olympus Has Fallen is a bigger & better bass movie than either Oz The Great and Powerful or Oblivion, as measured. It's also a decent movie, but not as good as Oblivion in terms of overall theatrical entertainment.

OHF does have some significant clipping, but it's not terribly noticeable because each instance (iirc) corresponds with effects that our ears expect to hear as clipped. It's much like repulsors/jet engine sounds in T:L and the IM series, and not as overt & odd sounding as the clipping in Immortals.

Ninja edit: one note about Olympus Has Fallen - it has a lot of very hot content centered at 20Hz, but what gives it that extra appeal to me is that it also has a lot of hot content in the ULF region. It uses this region more than either Oz or Oblivion, and it shows in the Peak vs. Average graphs.

You won't get as much from OHF if you're running ported or horn systems, or small sealed designs. OHF, like pretty much all of the 4.75-5 star movies, is best presented on high displacement-to-room-size, extremely capable, multiple-driver sealed sub systems that can do at or near 115dB to your LP across the entire bandwidth (not just pink noise), such as the DIY systems built by bosso, popalock, notnyt, and others. It'll sound good and be very resonant with ported/horn systems tuned ~17-18Hz, but won't have the full impact of all the content below that.

(Pet peeve: when people say "reference" but have no frame of reference in measured dB terms for what their system is capable of.)
Edited by nube - 8/18/13 at 1:00pm
post #9723 of 16101
^^^ Great! That's next on my list.
post #9724 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Yep, Olympus Has Fallen is a bigger & better bass movie than either Oz The Great and Powerful or Oblivion.
I watched Olympus Has Fallen last night. Not sure it had more bass than Oz or Oblivion.
post #9725 of 16101
As measured, OHF has slightly less total level than Oz but more than Oblivion. OHF & Oblivion have much deeper extension than Oz, but you won't notice this unless you have a very capable sealed system. OHF has slightly more high-level ULF than Oblivion, with a much lower frequency peak - check the PvA graphs to verify. OHF has much better dyanmic range than Oblivion, but slightly less than Oz.

Overall, OHF has more bass by objective measure. It barely missed 5 stars. Again, though, you won't notice this unless your system is multiple, large sealed subs that can do at or near real reference levels (not the supposed "reference" of 0 on your receiver) from ~5-15Hz. Also, they're all great bass movies, so each should sound fantastic on a variety of systems. smile.gif
Edited by nube - 8/18/13 at 1:20pm
post #9726 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

You won't get as much from OHF if you're running ported or horn systems, or small sealed designs.

I got plenty out of it tongue.gif

Then again, the THs are good to 14Hz in my current room, so they're still going where a lot of the horn designs out there are stopping.

That said, I thought Oz was slightly better for bass than both OHF and Oblivion. But they're all good solid 4.5 star movies.

Bullet to the Head I have a hard time rating... I almost want to go 4.5 on that one too, but I think I'll just do 4.
post #9727 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

I watched Olympus Has Fallen last night. Not sure it had more bass than Oz or Oblivion.
i definitely agree. Oblivion burnt an amp up in one of my subs .
post #9728 of 16101
These opinions are nice but they are measured and we know which one really has more bass. If one sounds like it has more bass than it should then you have a frequency anomaly or you are not getting the low stuff. I watch many movies that have more ULF than Midbass and although I is not as a WOW factor that stuff is really cool like the Amazing Spider-Man. The subtle stuff is wicked and I enjoy that. I love FOTP 32 hz blast bu I am starting to enjoy this low subtle stuff just as much. Dredd was cool like this too. Those still are not 5 stars but ULF without loud Midbass is very cool.
post #9729 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by missyman View Post

i definitely agree. Oblivion burnt an amp up in one of my subs .
Really?! Now that's a story to talk about.
post #9730 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

Really?! Now that's a story to talk about.
not really. I hate paying for one of my subs to get fixed.
post #9731 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

These opinions are nice but they are measured and we know which one really has more bass. If one sounds like it has more bass than it should then you have a frequency anomaly or you are not getting the low stuff. I watch many movies that have more ULF than Midbass and although I is not as a WOW factor that stuff is really cool like the Amazing Spider-Man. The subtle stuff is wicked and I enjoy that. I love FOTP 32 hz blast bu I am starting to enjoy this low subtle stuff just as much. Dredd was cool like this too. Those still are not 5 stars but ULF without loud Midbass is very cool.
Thanks for your honest statement. I reckon i have midrange subs.but i sure do enjoy them. Ed makes a nice product when I'm not pushingthem too hard
post #9732 of 16101
OHF. As a front to back, start to finish LFE experience, I would probably go 4. If I was judging just on its best scenes, a 4.5-5 (the Washington Monument scene was insane!!) A few more of these big scenes would have bumped the overall LFE experience up a notch IMO and as I have mentioned, my favorite OVERALL LFE tracks are ones that are loaded with the low end and leave the best (or near best) for last like TIH, Battle LA, Matrix Revolutions, etc.... Even with my subs dropping off at 13-14hz (my BKs hit single digits though which gives me the ULF to some degree at least), the big LFE scenes in this film were flat out awesome! My subs were being pushed in a way that is very rare at this tracks best LFE moments, and my BKs were pushed to their limits as well as they even bottomed a few times. I would love to feel that last bit of extension in a single digit sub system.


Also watched Bullet to the Head which I would rate 3.5-4 overall. The intro right from frame one was excellent and the low end supported the film well I thought.


As far as the quantity of LFE discussing above, we don't need a graph to know that something like Oblivion has more overall quantity of LFE vs something like OHF. Between the actual score/music which is flat out LOADED by itself (the isolated score experience is fantastic!) and effects, Oblivion clearly has more quantity of LFE vs OHF. Now Quantity in a certain part of the range and/or quality is a different matter, but for overall LFE quantity it is not even close between those two films with Oblivion clearly having more.
Edited by Toe - 8/19/13 at 12:18am
post #9733 of 16101
Anyone catch the latest DC animation of "Batman Returns" parts one and two ? If not and your a fan, its a must see but don't go in having the expectation of watching with kids will be a good idea! it wont this the real deal and was gripping and well done! Now as for the reason for posting this here biggrin.gif The bass ! if you love that room filling energizing bass that makes you wonder did I leave the LFE+Main setting on ( it made me check as I had used it for music earlier that day biggrin.gif ) ! this one has it in spades and its there through out it ample quantity and with visceral authority which only made the movie more engaging . I'd love to see this graphed !

get it wink.gif
post #9734 of 16101
I hope to see Oblivion this weekend. I trust the LFE will be awesome based on what you guys say. I also hope the movie is good.
post #9735 of 16101
Haha you guys are crazy. "I don't need a tape measure to tell me exactly how tall the ceiling is. I know it's 9ft tall just by looking at it!" wink.gif

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. I'll stick with objective measures that don't change from movie to movie.
post #9736 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Haha you guys are crazy. "I don't need a tape measure to tell me exactly how tall the ceiling is. I know it's 9ft tall just by looking at it!" wink.gif

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. I'll stick with objective measures that don't change from movie to movie.


I assume you are talking to me. My only point was take Oblivions isolated score for example, then watch OHF..........do you need a graph to tell you which track has more OVERALL LFE? Of course not. That is not a ding against the graphs in any way shape or form and its not a knock against either track one way or the other. IF you are wanting the most quantity of LFE though, one track clearly has more and we sure don't need a graph for that particular stat. This is largely dictated by the nature of the content obviously. wink.gif

Oh, and close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and farts is the way I always heard it.
post #9737 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I assume you are talking to me. My only point was take Oblivions isolated score for example, then watch OHF..........do you need a graph to tell you which track has more OVERALL LFE? Of course not. That is not a ding against the graphs in any way shape or form and its not a knock against either track one way or the other. IF you are wanting the most quantity of LFE though, one track clearly has more and we sure don't need a graph for that particular stat. This is largely dictated by the nature of the content obviously. wink.gif

Oh, and close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and farts is the way I always heard it.

Especially farting under the blanket with the girl then lifting it up to let it escape. She doesn't like being close then
post #9738 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Especially farting under the blanket with the girl then lifting it up to let it escape. She doesn't like being close then


tongue.gif

They get even more mad if you pull the full Dutch Oven and trap her under there.
post #9739 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

tongue.gif

They get even more mad if you pull the full Dutch Oven and trap her under there.

I like to trap it and then lift the blanket up, let it fall down and all the air gets fanned out the the head! Some of you are thinking TMI I know. So I got to watch a Tron demo with Submersives and wow that was sick!
post #9740 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post


Oh, and close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and farts is the way I always heard it.
Not quite........close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, farts, love and cleavage. wink.gifbiggrin.gif
post #9741 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I like to trap it and then lift the blanket up, let it fall down and all the air gets fanned out the the head! Some of you are thinking TMI I know. So I got to watch a Tron demo with Submersives and wow that was sick!
You thinking backwards if it's the demo you thought was sick 😳 But it makes two of us cuz my wife hates it too wink.gif
post #9742 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Not quite........close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, farts, love and cleavage. wink.gifbiggrin.gif

This saying is getting better and better as the posts go on. Nice! biggrin.gif
post #9743 of 16101
I think maybe the disconnect is that there is a way to actually and objectively measure the bass content of discs, which is what maxmercy has done at D-B.com. The level measurement compares movies by how much total content there is and, when combined with extension and dynamics measures and ratings, you get a score of exactly how much bass content is on a disc.

By these measures, and you might read how they're arrived at in the first post of that D-B thread, you know how much content is there, and because the process is repeated exactly the same way for each movie, it's a completely apples-to-apples comparison. It's not a graph, it's numbers, man, and bigger numbers are better. wink.gif.

Throw all that subjective guesswork of comparisons based on audio memory, or the different response & total output characteristics of your system vs. others, out the window - that's what maxmercy's done.
post #9744 of 16101
I understand all that Nube. My only point is that a movie like Matrix Revolutions due to the fact that the material in the last hour is nearly all action is clearly going to have more actual run time of LFE vs Looper for example and a graph is not needed to hear this. .
post #9745 of 16101
I don't think you understand it, then. The idea of "more" is not merely the length of the mix that contains content from 0-120 or 160Hz. It's the quality (or sound pressure, in pascals) of that content, with reference to (in part) what it takes to reproduce the content. This rating is derived by measuring the levels, the extension, the dynamics, etc.

It takes a lot more displacement and wattage for a driver to reproduce 100dB at 5Hz than it does to produce 100dB at 120Hz, hence the difference. If you objectively measure the total amount of bass content on a disc, then more is more. There is no debating that more is more, regardless of the genre, run time, etc., is there?

This is why Looper gets a significantly higher rating at D-B.com than Matrix Revolutions. Looper has deeper, higher SPL bass content and, because of this, yet regardless of the run time or amount of action on screen, it has more bass energy encoded in the mix. I hope that all makes sense.
post #9746 of 16101
Once again, I understand that. My comments are not in relation to the DB scale but in relation to the length of the mix. Matrix Revolutions from that standpoint clearly has much more instances of LFE vs Looper. I hope we can agree from that perspective since I don't know how you could argue that just due to the nature of the two films as MR has much more action obviously and has a need to call on the low end more because of it.
Edited by Toe - 8/19/13 at 12:30pm
post #9747 of 16101
I think the problem is that most people hear the loud 30hz stuff and say that is great(I do) but all the great very low stuff is subtle and adds significantly to overall bass content in a measurement system. So it might not seem as impressive overall but actually has more measured bass. One of the loudest bass hits I have heard in my theater was when the Bat came out during TDKR but overall there are much better bass movies. BTW, I really liked and still watch TDKR as I thought the movie was really good.
post #9748 of 16101
Another example is FOTP vs TIH. FOTP objectively measures higher vs TIH, but if your goal was to watch a movie start to finish and you were looking for the best overall bass experience, would anyone choose FOTP even though it objectively measures higher? No. FOTP has one awesome main memorable scene (plane crash) while TIH has three great scenes (bottling plant, campus scene and end fight) with each one better than the last overall.
post #9749 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I think the problem is that most people hear the loud 30hz stuff and say that is great(I do) but all the great very low stuff is subtle and adds significantly to overall bass content in a measurement system. So it might not seem as impressive overall but actually has more measured bass. One of the loudest bass hits I have heard in my theater was when the Bat came out during TDKR but overall there are much better bass movies. BTW, I really liked and still watch TDKR as I thought the movie was really good.

The lower you go is icing on the cake. Cake is great and the icing rounds out the experience. I settle for 13hz in my case and I can only live vicariously though others descriptions of brown notes. Lol
post #9750 of 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Another example is FOTP vs TIH. FOTP objectively measures higher vs TIH, but if your goal was to watch a movie start to finish and you were looking for the best overall bass experience, would anyone choose FOTP even though it objectively measures higher? No. FOTP has one awesome main memorable scene (plane crash) while TIH has three great scenes (bottling plant, campus scene and end fight) with each one better than the last overall.

Every measurement scheme has drawbacks.

At the time FOTP and TIH were compared, an 'average under the curve' scheme was utilized. Its inherent drawback was all a film would have to do is have either large sweeps, or narrow, high level effects evenly distributed along the frequency span, (with one big one below 10Hz) and you get lots of stars.

Now, the ranking system has evolved to take into account the films with 'broad-based' effects, like broadband explosions. It puts films that have narrow-band and broadband effects on equal ground. Unfortunately, the problem is time. It takes around a solid hour to measure a film. With the amount of films already measured, that it a LOT of time, at least a week's work of time-and-a-half.....something I do not have in abundance. The good thing is that the best films will rank well on any of the three ranking scales I have used thus far, only a quarter of a star difference, so keep that in mind.

In my opinion, TIH is the best bass film of all time (thus far). That it didn't garner the full 5 Stars in my system kinda disappointed me, but it is too loud for too long, squashing dynamics, making it a 4.75 Star film with the first and second, and current systems. Battle:LA is also incredible, but I have not measured it with the new system. HTTYD is equally impressive. All 5 Stars for me subjectively, but that takes my room, my freq response, and most important, my furniture's RESONANCES into account. People underestimate how much a film would not impact someone were they to sit on solid concrete chairs and not get that couch to move with certain effects. With ULF, sometimes the resonances in your room (or the drywall creaks) are the only clue that the ULF is there. The system takes all of those huge variances out, but it will not necessarily predict how it will play in your room. Once you know your room, you can look at the measurement and predict how a film will sound/feel. I can look at the PvA graph and tell that Olympus has Fallen will be a rock star in my room (couch moves a lot from 16-25Hz, and lots more from 18-22Hz). I got it on Netflix this evening, and will view it as soon as I have time to.

JSS
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