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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 326

post #9751 of 16105
OK, Toe, I'll take a different tack.

Since I measured the digital content, bit-for-bit, from both Oblivion and OHF BR discs, here's how they shake out objectively:

Oblivion
Code:
Extension    1hz     5star
Level   111.81  4star
Dynamics        25.92   4star

OHF
Code:
Extension    1hz     5star
Level   112.25  4star
Dynamics        29.22   5star

While technically the same extension at the -10dBfs point, the shape of the curve in the Peak vs. Average graphs shows you why OHF is such a beast. Oblivion may have more from 40-60Hz, but OHF has a lot more from 1-20Hz. By these objective measures, Oblivion has less total bass content, 1-160Hz, than OHF, and that's with 2 additional channels (7.1 vs. 5.1 for OHF), or an extra 2dB of mixing headroom to play with!

Again, I don't want to make this out to seem like it's such a huge difference in the grand scheme of things - they're both really good, and we're splitting hairs in many ways. It's the < 20Hz ULF content that pushes OHF over the top. Below 30Hz, the winner is OHF. Above 30Hz, the winner is Oblivion. To beat a dead horse, it's that < 30Hz content which is much harder to reproduce, and much more impressive in a mix, in my opinion. The level of ULF content is what, for me, separates the big boys from the rest of the pack.
post #9752 of 16105
Nube, I appreciate the detailed explanation, but we are coming at this from two different pespectives. Humor me for a moment and stop coming at this from the db scale/system. Let me give a bit more extreme example to make my angle a bit more clear. Keep in mind I am talking about individual instances of bass no matter where it hits in the spectrum. Lets say you listen to a rap concert for two straight hours and then watch OHF.....which experience will have more actual bass as far as individual bass moments/instances?
post #9753 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Every measurement scheme has drawbacks.

At the time FOTP and TIH were compared, an 'average under the curve' scheme was utilized. Its inherent drawback was all a film would have to do is have either large sweeps, or narrow, high level effects evenly distributed along the frequency span, (with one big one below 10Hz) and you get lots of stars.

Now, the ranking system has evolved to take into account the films with 'broad-based' effects, like broadband explosions. It puts films that have narrow-band and broadband effects on equal ground. Unfortunately, the problem is time. It takes around a solid hour to measure a film. With the amount of films already measured, that it a LOT of time, at least a week's work of time-and-a-half.....something I do not have in abundance. The good thing is that the best films will rank well on any of the three ranking scales I have used thus far, only a quarter of a star difference, so keep that in mind.

In my opinion, TIH is the best bass film of all time (thus far). That it didn't garner the full 5 Stars in my system kinda disappointed me, but it is too loud for too long, squashing dynamics, making it a 4.75 Star film with the first and second, and current systems. Battle:LA is also incredible, but I have not measured it with the new system. HTTYD is equally impressive. All 5 Stars for me subjectively, but that takes my room, my freq response, and most important, my furniture's RESONANCES into account. People underestimate how much a film would not impact someone were they to sit on solid concrete chairs and not get that couch to move with certain effects. With ULF, sometimes the resonances in your room (or the drywall creaks) are the only clue that the ULF is there. The system takes all of those huge variances out, but it will not necessarily predict how it will play in your room. Once you know your room, you can look at the measurement and predict how a film will sound/feel. I can look at the PvA graph and tell that Olympus has Fallen will be a rock star in my room (couch moves a lot from 16-25Hz, and lots more from 18-22Hz). I got it on Netflix this evening, and will view it as soon as I have time to.

JSS

Thanks for the very informative post Maxmercy and thanks for all the time, effort and everything else you have done as far as the db thread goes. I have really enjoyed that thread since first learning of it months ago and you guys have eliminated the biggest issue with this AVS thread which is how loosely it is based as far as the grading parameters by establishing such a clear set of guidelines for how a track is scored. It eliminates the issues like me and Nube are having right now since there is no chance of two grading perspectives clashing to some degree since again the guidelines are clearly spelled out.

The bis bass scenes in OHF were amazing in my setup even with my subs dropping off in the low teens (my BK hit single digits at least). The Washington Monument scene is one that stands out in my mind as my subs were being pushed in a way that is very rare. I still need to check out the graph for this scene as I am curious just where this was hitting. It was obviously low, but not so low as to be out of range for my subs to some degree so there must be some extrememly strong content somewhere between 15-25hz if I had to guess (and of course whatever below that which my subs can't touch).

I agree with you on TIH and that is still my #1 LFE film most likely. By the time the credits roll, I am trying to figure out WTH just happened! smile.gif

Thanks again though and please don't take my comments in this thread as disrespectful toward the db thread since lime I mentioned, I have the utmost respect for what you and others have done in that thread. As far as this AVS thread goes though, my voting works a bit differently as I have explained quite a few times which adheres to the loose structure of this thread, just like Nubes more objective method is fair game as well here and again where the confusion sets in and what you guys have successfully eliminated in the db thread which is nice. Both threads have their place though in my mind even though neither is perfect.
post #9754 of 16105
Toe, I think I understand where you're coming from, but I won't ever agree that a longer duration of content in the range of 1-120Hz necessarily equates to "more" bass. It can be "more," all other things being equal (extension, level, dynamics, peak frequencies, etc.), but definitely is not always in practice, especially when all other things aren't equal. smile.gif

We're looking at this with different scales, and I can appreciate that. Reasonable minds can disagree on how to measure something. But, I just want to be clear what I'm talking about: a measurement of quantity that relies upon relational scales that aren't merely duration. Amount of bass, to me, is not just how long frequencies in the range of 1-120Hz are produced, though duration is a component of it.

Maybe I'm thinking about quantities of bass like the caloric content of different foodstuffs. (Note: I'm terrible with analogies, so apologies in advance. smile.gif) Fat contains 9 calories per gram. Protein has 4 calories per gram. Carbs contain 4 calories per gram. Insoluble plant fiber is very close to 0 calories per gram. They all are 1 gram by weight, but not all measured the same in their total caloric content. If I were to make a pile of each that reached 100 calories, the fiber pile would be enormous compared to the carbs & protein, and an absolute mountain compared to the pile of fat. The fiber pile would certainly look like a lot more food than the others, but would have exactly the same caloric content.

However, if I created piles by volume, things would look much different when measuring their caloric content. 10 liters of fat would have orders of magnitude (maybe 1,000x? 100,000x?) more calories than 10 liters of fiber. They would be the same by volume, but their caloric content would be vastly different. Their weight would be vastly different, too, because of their different densities. I could pile up enough fiber to equal the weight of the 10 liters of fat, and it'd look like a lot more food, but it still wouldn't equal the caloric content of fat.

Anecdotally, this is why I love big, fat steaks. wink.gif

Here's the Washington Monument SL scenecap from OHF. Scroll down to the next post for more graphs of OHF.
post #9755 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I think the problem is that most people hear the loud 30hz stuff and say that is great(I do) but all the great very low stuff is subtle and adds significantly to overall bass content in a measurement system. So it might not seem as impressive overall but actually has more measured bass. One of the loudest bass hits I have heard in my theater was when the Bat came out during TDKR but overall there are much better bass movies. BTW, I really liked and still watch TDKR as I thought the movie was really good.
Funny you mentioned this. Last weekend or the weekend before, we were watching TDKR on HBO and we got into it. I said what are watching it on HBO for when I have the BluRay. I switched it over and man, what a difference!! The opening of the movie with the C130 cargo plane is pretty intense. I think that movie has an incredible soundtrack on top of a great movie. One of my favorites.
post #9756 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Funny you mentioned this. Last weekend or the weekend before, we were watching TDKR on HBO and we got into it. I said what are watching it on HBO for when I have the BluRay. I switched it over and man, what a difference!! The opening of the movie with the C130 cargo plane is pretty intense. I think that movie has an incredible soundtrack on top of a great movie. One of my favorites.

yeah the sound on HBO's dark knight rises is so neutered, I flipped to it the other day and it just sounded so off, even the voices sounded wrong.
post #9757 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Toe, I think I understand where you're coming from, but I won't ever agree that a longer duration of content in the range of 1-120Hz necessarily equates to "more" bass. It can be "more," all other things being equal (extension, level, dynamics, peak frequencies, etc.), but definitely is not always in practice, especially when all other things aren't equal. smile.gif

We're looking at this with different scales, and I can appreciate that. Reasonable minds can disagree on how to measure something. But, I just want to be clear what I'm talking about: a measurement of quantity that relies upon relational scales that aren't merely duration. Amount of bass, to me, is not just how long frequencies in the range of 1-120Hz are produced, though duration is a component of it.

Maybe I'm thinking about quantities of bass like the caloric content of different foodstuffs. (Note: I'm terrible with analogies, so apologies in advance. smile.gif) Fat contains 9 calories per gram. Protein has 4 calories per gram. Carbs contain 4 calories per gram. Insoluble plant fiber is very close to 0 calories per gram. They all are 1 gram by weight, but not all measured the same in their total caloric content. If I were to make a pile of each that reached 100 calories, the fiber pile would be enormous compared to the carbs & protein, and an absolute mountain compared to the pile of fat. The fiber pile would certainly look like a lot more food than the others, but would have exactly the same caloric content.

However, if I created piles by volume, things would look much different when measuring their caloric content. 10 liters of fat would have orders of magnitude (maybe 1,000x? 100,000x?) more calories than 10 liters of fiber. They would be the same by volume, but their caloric content would be vastly different. Their weight would be vastly different, too, because of their different densities. I could pile up enough fiber to equal the weight of the 10 liters of fat, and it'd look like a lot more food, but it still wouldn't equal the caloric content of fat.

Anecdotally, this is why I love big, fat steaks. wink.gif

Here's the Washington Monument SL scenecap from OHF. Scroll down to the next post for more graphs of OHF.

Which weighs more: a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers?
post #9758 of 16105
Anyone know of good scary or horror movies with bass? I was looking at these 2 movies and was wondering if these got any good bass?











I heard the movie Triangle got excellent bass and a great movie as well. I will have to buy this movie for sure.

I guess I am looking for horror/scary movies with excellent bass.
Edited by mantaraydesign - 8/20/13 at 12:15pm
post #9759 of 16105
Neither of those is all that great. Triangle is one, as is The Woman In Black, and Rec 2 (Spanish language movie with subtitles, but the best bass out of the bunch).
post #9760 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

Anyone know of good scary or horror movies with bass? I was looking at these 2 movies and was wondering if these got any good bass?











I heard the movie Triangle got excellent bass and a great movie as well. I will have to buy this movie for sure.

I guess I am looking for horror/scary movies with excellent bass.

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/the-new-master-list-of-bass-in-movies-with-frequency-charts/8400_100#post_23386429

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/the-new-master-list-of-bass-in-movies-with-frequency-charts/8400_100#post_23394859

post #9761 of 16105
Cabin in the Woods had some good spots. It was mentioned earlier in here with graphs, just search for it. 😎
post #9762 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

Which weighs more: a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers?


Which is bigger?
Which has more structural integrity for building a house?
Which has better insulation value?
post #9763 of 16105
Thanks guys for some great ideas!
post #9764 of 16105
Thanks Nube, and I think you get the gist of what I am talking about and I certainly understand and respect your perspective as well. Just to be clear, this is just one small grading parameter for me and I certainly take into account the objective info as well along with the subjective category of execution. Because of this, OHF for example would never make my personal 5 star list even if its best scenes are subjectively and objectively worthy of that status or close to it which they are. This particular thread allows that type of discretion even if it doesn't agree with your rating system so hope you can at least respect that as far this thread goes no matter if you agree or not. I have voted this way for years in this thread, and I am not going to stop now since this is an important consideration for me to some degree. Obviously I would never push this particular grading parameter at db as I respect the very well established guidelines, but this is not DB.

Thanks for the link to the Washington Monument scene and looks like I was good at calling it as I thought a strong portion of that scene must have hit in the 15-25hz region and it looks VERY strong right about 20hz. That scene was a monster in my setup. I am sure that single digit content would take it to the next level and is impressive on a sub system that can do it justice and while my transducers get me there, it's obviously not the same as the subs doing it. Some day......... smile.gif
Edited by Toe - 8/20/13 at 1:01pm
post #9765 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I like to trap it and then lift the blanket up, let it fall down and all the air gets fanned out the the head! Some of you are thinking TMI I know. So I got to watch a Tron demo with Submersives and wow that was sick!


All fun and laughs until this happens lol

http://www.netrider.net.au/threads/dutch-oven-went-horribly-wrong.162208/
post #9766 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashi777 View Post

All fun and laughs until this happens lol

http://www.netrider.net.au/threads/dutch-oven-went-horribly-wrong.162208/

eek.gif
post #9767 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashi777 View Post

All fun and laughs until this happens lol

http://www.netrider.net.au/threads/dutch-oven-went-horribly-wrong.162208/

Anyone get a waterfall on that one scene???
post #9768 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post



Which is bigger?
Which has more structural integrity for building a house?
Which has better insulation value?
LOL!
post #9769 of 16105
Guys, what's the verdict on Iron Man 3?
post #9770 of 16105
You know guys, I keep forgetting about TIH as that was a great Bass fest, time to try that out first when I am ready!
post #9771 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

Anyone get a waterfall on that one scene???

Wow I just laughed for a minute straight. Shouldnt, but hey
post #9772 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

Anyone know of good scary or horror movies with bass? I was looking at these 2 movies and was wondering if these got any good bass?
I heard the movie Triangle got excellent bass and a great movie as well. I will have to buy this movie for sure.

I guess I am looking for horror/scary movies with excellent bass.


If you have a FRYS near then grab Triangle for 2.00 on BD.
Not my type of flick, but it's in my collection because of the brutal bass !!!

http://www.frys.com/product/6141919?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
post #9773 of 16105
Pulse.

Server scene.

WOW!

eek.gif
post #9774 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You know guys, I keep forgetting about TIH as that was a great Bass fest, time to try that out first when I am ready!
tih?
post #9775 of 16105
^^ TIH = The incredible Hulk
post #9776 of 16105
A list of abbreviations on this thread for the movie titles would help.
post #9777 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim_1335 View Post

Guys, what's the verdict on Iron Man 3?
It's not due for release in the US until September 24th, so I'd imagine we'll start seeing people graphing the Chinese MKV rips of the BR sometime in the next week. The production facilities received the BR master last week. The only thing to be aware of is if the Chinese pirates remux the audio, they sometimes screw up the mix (as they did on Epic and Oblivion's MKV rips).
post #9778 of 16105
Iron man 3 is already "out" there...
post #9779 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

A list of abbreviations on this thread for the movie titles would help.
I'll try to list the most common abbreviations from this thread, some of which aren't used that much because the movies aren't discussed much.

Note: if a link doesn't take you to the exact measurements of the movie, just hit F5 to reload the page. (This has to do with bad browser rendering when multiple image placeholders try to display at once, not the site itself or your computer.)

AGDTDH or DH5= A Good Day To Die Hard (aka Die Hard 5)

AIL = All Is Lost

ALVH = Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter

AOF = The Art of Flight

AOTC = Star Wars: Attack of the Clones

AVP = Alien vs. Predator

B:LA = Battle: Los Angeles

BHD = Black Hawk Down

CITW = Cabin In the Woods

COTT = Clash of the Titans

DOTM = Transformers: Dark of the Moon

EG = Ender's Game

FOTP = Flight of the Phoenix

GG or TGG = The Great Gatsby

HB1, HB2 = Hellboy, Hellboy 2: The Golden Army

HTTYD = How To Train Your Dragon

IM, IM2, IM3 = Iron Man 1, Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3

KFP = Kung Fu Panda

LFODH or DH4= Live Free or Die Hard (aka Die Hard 4)

LOTR FOTR = Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring

LOTR TTT = Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers

LOTR ROTK = Lord of the Rings: Return of the King

M&C = Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World

MoS = Man of Steel

MU = Monsters University

MWTIF = The Man with the Iron Fists

OHF = Olympus Has Fallen

Oz = Oz the Great and Powerful

PR or PacRim = Pacific Rim

ROTF = Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen

ROTS = Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith

SPR = Saving Private Ryan

STID = Star Trek Into Darkness

T1, T2, T3 = Terminators 1, 2 & 3

TS or T4 = Terminator Salvation

TDK = The Dark Knight

TDKR = The Dark Knight Rises

TDAT = The Day After Tomorrow

THL or HL = The Hurt Locker

TIH = The Incredible Hulk

T:L = Tron: Legacy

TPM = Star Wars: The Phantom Menace

TR = Total Recall

U:A = Underworld: Awakening

WOTT = Wrath of the Titans

WOTW = War of the Worlds

WWZ = World War Z

ZDT or ZD30 = Zero Dark Thirty
Edited by nube - 2/15/14 at 7:35am
post #9780 of 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray77085 View Post

If you have a FRYS near then grab Triangle for 2.00 on BD.
Not my type of flick, but it's in my collection because of the brutal bass !!!

http://www.frys.com/product/6141919?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Thanks!
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