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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 330

post #9871 of 16085
What about Oblivion - Chapter 8?

Is it a 5? or less?

How do YOU experience Chapter 8 ?
post #9872 of 16085
Flageborg,

Is everything alright? Must've been a good party last night, because you're carrying on a conversation with yourself! cool.gif
post #9873 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

Avengers is widely regarded as having a really good soundtrack, I think what they did is focused the sound track on people who have htib subs or worse, so they didn't care about less than 30 hz. I think filtering at 30 hz makes small subs sound better, which is what 99.9% of people have.

Most commercial theaters don't go below 30Hz.
post #9874 of 16085
I have 5 ULs 15s. My room is open to the rest of the house. Oblivion sounded amazing. Guess it spoiled me.

Edit: my room is my profile pic
post #9875 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

I have 5 ULs 15s. My room is open to the rest of the house. Oblivion sounded amazing. Guess it spoiled me.

Edit: my room is my profile pic

I see 4. Where is the 5th?
post #9876 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I see 4. Where is the 5th?
He sits on it
post #9877 of 16085
Added after pic. Front left corner.
post #9878 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post


He sits on it

Actually I believe wingnut is a female.

post #9879 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

Actually I believe wingnut is a female.
Then I stand by my post 😉
post #9880 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Yes. Simply boosting below 80Hz will not duplicate the 'slam' of certain effects. Chest cavity resonates at ~50Hz and multiples of 50 above that. You need >105dB SPL above 50Hz to get the 'kick in the chest' feeling. Boosting below 40Hz will get you the rumble and shudder, but not the blast. When listening at -10dB, DynamicEQ helps, but nothing is the same as distortion-free Reference level with a clip-free track.

Most people have 'slam' problems due to 1/4 wave 'suckouts' at the important chest-slam frequencies. It takes very careful implementation of a sound system to room to achieve proper playback.

The Incredible Hulk uses all available amplitude on the track with very little clipping, and no overt, square-wave clipping, like in Immortals or Tron:Legacy. It is a bass monster, and my fav bass film. The best part is a 5-7Hz system will do it complete justice, unlike WotW, HTTYD and other films with content to 1Hz.

JSS

+1

As usual, outstanding stuff!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Could you explain in a bit more detail about these 1/4 wave suckouts? And how to deal with them so one maintains that chest slam effect to its full benefits?

Just recently helped a DJ with related issues, .. ie., summation, boundary interaction, etc.

An excerpt;
"What I'd focus on is the time signal alignment, and the proper acoustic summation of the mains and subs. Assure that the tops and subs are summing appropriately, whereby the resultant acoustic outputs are in phase and smoothly achieving the desired response.

Now the biggest caveat to quality mobile sound is possessing a solid grasp on boundary interactions, and how to achieve maximum acoustic summation and minimal cancelation effects. Anyone setting up and optimizing portable sound systems really needs to understand quarter wavelength effects, and how to use this to your advantage.

Again, you likely know this, but it's worth revisiting. There's two important interconnected elements at play; the manner in which your boxes sum, and the influences of the boundaries. In a typical sub/top scenario, either place the subs less than a quarter wavelength apart, or more than two wavelengths apart. This applies to the freqs within their coverage. So, ... 1120/freq=wavelength in feet, so if the subs are covering 100hz on down, either keep them closer than about 3 feet, or or more than about 50 feet apart.

All too often two subs spread apart, being used as bases for the tops or whatever, are working against each other as much as with one-another. There's so much precious gain to be achieved by co-locating them. The vast majority of set-ups get this simple fact wrong.

Now the second element is boundary loading. Whenever possible, the acoustic savvy sound man will utilize the surroundings to their advantage. Something as simple as utilizing an adjacent wall can gain you as much as 6dB across the board. Add in another boundary and place them in a corner and you gain another 6dB, totaling 12dB of acoustic gain. Don't be afraid to closely couple the driver, and fire the sub into the wall, or into the corner. This gives you a significant advantage and can entirely transform your otherwise modest sub into a beast.

There's no downside to these techniques, as long as you allow a minimum of several inches between the boundary and the driver, it'll work fantastic. Now you will need to assure proper time alignment and blending within the crossover region. This is easy with your measurement gear/running some alignment signal through the system.

After you consider acoustic advantages, you've got to make sure there's no disadvantages, via cancelations. A great rule of thumb is never place subs anywhere between about 2.5', and around 8 feet of a boundary. The problem is there will be acoustic cancelations within the sub's operating coverage."


I hope this helps, he was a DJ that had measurement skills, REW, etc, but wanted a better grasp on what he's up against.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

I have 5 ULs 15s. My room is open to the rest of the house. Oblivion sounded amazing. Guess it spoiled me.

Edit: my room is my profile pic

Just wanted to take a moment, .. nice set-up. Yeah, the subs are very HQ, as is everything, but that's not what I'm talking about. Your room set-up is so nice.

All too often I see AVS'ers and their system so diffraction cluttered up front. The propagated wave-launch needs to be as clean and unadulterated as possible. It just allows a higher degree of accuracy in imaging, smoother response, better clarity and detail. Those very early reflections/disturbances are important, and all too often the it would seem even knowledgeable enthusiasts get this wrong. The subjective differences can vary subtle to significant, and imaging coherence and listening into a detailed soundstage is an acquired skill. But once exposed to it, it very easy to tell the difference when the recorded event is reproduced with depth and width details resolved intact.

I know I'm not sharing anything new, but it's just worth repeating ... wingnut's room is a very nice example.

Nice open, clean and aesthetically pleasing room, distributed/multi-sub, sweet. cool.gif
post #9881 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Flageborg,
Is everything alright?

Yepp...but why don't you rather try to keep your focus on "BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts" ?
post #9882 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

Avengers is widely regarded as having a really good soundtrack, I think what they did is focused the sound track on people who have htib subs or worse, so they didn't care about less than 30 hz. I think filtering at 30 hz makes small subs sound better, which is what 99.9% of people have.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/the-new-master-list-of-bass-in-movies-with-frequency-charts/8880#post_23481939Read this.
post #9883 of 16085
I was wondering if anyone had ever graphed and rated wanted.
post #9884 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

Avengers is widely regarded as having a really good soundtrack, I think what they did is focused the sound track on people who have htib subs or worse, so they didn't care about less than 30 hz. I think filtering at 30 hz makes small subs sound better, which is what 99.9% of people have.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/the-new-master-list-of-bass-in-movies-with-frequency-charts/8880#post_23481939
Read this.

There is a difference between Avengers - Chapter 14 - and Oblivion - Chapter 16 - ....in the ULF section

Avenger_ch14_66.jpg

Oblivion_ch16_cave_attack_66.jpg
post #9885 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by missyman View Post

I was wondering if anyone had ever graphed and rated wanted.

Which chapter/scene would you like to have graphed?

How about this one?


Edited by Flageborg - 8/25/13 at 2:05pm
post #9886 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flageborg View Post

Which chapter/scene would you like to have graphed?

How about this one?

that would be great! Thanks in advance. I was wondering also if anyone ever rated wanted.
post #9887 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

+1

As usual, outstanding stuff!
Just recently helped a DJ with related issues, .. ie., summation, boundary interaction, etc.

An excerpt;
"What I'd focus on is the time signal alignment, and the proper acoustic summation of the mains and subs. Assure that the tops and subs are summing appropriately, whereby the resultant acoustic outputs are in phase and smoothly achieving the desired response.

Now the biggest caveat to quality mobile sound is possessing a solid grasp on boundary interactions, and how to achieve maximum acoustic summation and minimal cancelation effects. Anyone setting up and optimizing portable sound systems really needs to understand quarter wavelength effects, and how to use this to your advantage.

Again, you likely know this, but it's worth revisiting. There's two important interconnected elements at play; the manner in which your boxes sum, and the influences of the boundaries. In a typical sub/top scenario, either place the subs less than a quarter wavelength apart, or more than two wavelengths apart. This applies to the freqs within their coverage. So, ... 1120/freq=wavelength in feet, so if the subs are covering 100hz on down, either keep them closer than about 3 feet, or or more than about 50 feet apart.

All too often two subs spread apart, being used as bases for the tops or whatever, are working against each other as much as with one-another. There's so much precious gain to be achieved by co-locating them. The vast majority of set-ups get this simple fact wrong.

Now the second element is boundary loading. Whenever possible, the acoustic savvy sound man will utilize the surroundings to their advantage. Something as simple as utilizing an adjacent wall can gain you as much as 6dB across the board. Add in another boundary and place them in a corner and you gain another 6dB, totaling 12dB of acoustic gain. Don't be afraid to closely couple the driver, and fire the sub into the wall, or into the corner. This gives you a significant advantage and can entirely transform your otherwise modest sub into a beast.

There's no downside to these techniques, as long as you allow a minimum of several inches between the boundary and the driver, it'll work fantastic. Now you will need to assure proper time alignment and blending within the crossover region. This is easy with your measurement gear/running some alignment signal through the system.

After you consider acoustic advantages, you've got to make sure there's no disadvantages, via cancelations. A great rule of thumb is never place subs anywhere between about 2.5', and around 8 feet of a boundary. The problem is there will be acoustic cancelations within the sub's operating coverage."


I hope this helps, he was a DJ that had measurement skills, REW, etc, but wanted a better grasp on what he's up against.
Just wanted to take a moment, .. nice set-up. Yeah, the subs are very HQ, as is everything, but that's not what I'm talking about. Your room set-up is so nice.

All too often I see AVS'ers and their system so diffraction cluttered up front. The propagated wave-launch needs to be as clean and unadulterated as possible. It just allows a higher degree of accuracy in imaging, smoother response, better clarity and detail. Those very early reflections/disturbances are important, and all too often the it would seem even knowledgeable enthusiasts get this wrong. The subjective differences can vary subtle to significant, and imaging coherence and listening into a detailed soundstage is an acquired skill. But once exposed to it, it very easy to tell the difference when the recorded event is reproduced with depth and width details resolved intact.

I know I'm not sharing anything new, but it's just worth repeating ... wingnut's room is a very nice example.

Nice open, clean and aesthetically pleasing room, distributed/multi-sub, sweet. cool.gif
Thank you for the nice words. Interior design and home theater are my two big loves so naturally I try to marry the two and yes, I am a female, and no, I don't sit on my subs as someone who thought they were funny suggested.
post #9888 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by missyman View Post

that would be great! Thanks in advance. I was wondering also if anyone ever rated wanted.

It's a nice soundtrack and good deal of fun, but it's just not as impressive or aggressive as some of the top rated flicks. On the first page, 'Wanted' is rated as four stars.

"Sheep to Kill a Wolf" (00:06:25 - 00:07:00)


"Grocery Store Shootout" (00:14:45 - 00:15:30)


"Warehouse Shootout" (01:29:53 - 01:30:05)
post #9889 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flageborg View Post

There is a difference between Avengers - Chapter 14 - and Oblivion - Chapter 16 - ....in the ULF section

Avenger_ch14_66.jpg

Oblivion_ch16_cave_attack_66.jpg
That's not my post. JWagstaff posted that.
post #9890 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flageborg View Post

Which chapter/scene would you like to have graphed?

How about this one?



Those are NICE speakers man! What are those? Are they Martin Logans?
post #9891 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flageborg View Post

Which chapter/scene would you like to have graphed?

How about this one?



Those are NICE speakers man! What are those? Are they Martin Logans?
post #9892 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by eNoize View Post

It's a nice soundtrack and good deal of fun, but it's just not as impressive or aggressive as some of the top rated flicks. On the first page, 'Wanted' is rated as four stars.

"Sheep to Kill a Wolf" (00:06:25 - 00:07:00)


"Grocery Store Shootout" (00:14:45 - 00:15:30)


"Warehouse Shootout" (01:29:53 - 01:30:05)
thanks.i have wanted on Blu and haven't watched it since i got my subs andwas wondering if it'd be awesome. Looks like it'll be ok though.
post #9893 of 16085
"so if the subs are covering 100hz on down, either keep them closer than about 3 feet, or or more than about 50 feet apart."


Doesn't this make most home theater setups with 2-4 very capable subs spread in 4 corners, dual stacks or just duals on either side of the screen not good then? 3ft or 50 ft?

The top sentences were in response to this, my prior question. wink.gif
Could you explain in a bit more detail about these 1/4 wave suckouts? And how to deal with them so one maintains that chest slam effect to its full benefits?
post #9894 of 16085
For anyone who loves movie trailers as much as I do, this is what '47 Ronin' (DTS-HD MA 5.1) looks likes -- and it sounds great!

To download, right click and "Save link as . . ."
http://videos.movie-list.com/vob/Rugal2/remuxed/47_Ronin_Trailer_1_(2D)_1080p_DTS-HD_MA_5.1.mkv

The first half


The second half



And this is at the beginning of the teaser preview for 'Pompeii' off YouTube via the Sony Pictures channel
post #9895 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by eNoize View Post

For anyone who loves movie trailers as much as I do, this is what '47 Ronin' (DTS-HD MA 5.1) looks likes -- and it sounds great!

To download, right click and "Save link as . . ."
http://videos.movie-list.com/vob/Rugal2/remuxed/47_Ronin_Trailer_1_(2D)_1080p_DTS-HD_MA_5.1.mkv

 

Pretty cool site!

http://www.movie-list.com/forum/showthread.php?26671-Member-Submitted-Blu-ray-M2TS-Theatrical-Trailers-%28Only%29

post #9896 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

"so if the subs are covering 100hz on down, either keep them closer than about 3 feet, or or more than about 50 feet apart."


Doesn't this make most home theater setups with 2-4 very capable subs spread in 4 corners, dual stacks or just duals on either side of the screen not good then? 3ft or 50 ft?

The top sentences were in response to this, my prior question. wink.gif
Could you explain in a bit more detail about these 1/4 wave suckouts? And how to deal with them so one maintains that chest slam effect to its full benefits?

This is getting OT, but here's the quick explanation:

FOH is talking about large rooms, with big crowds. In an HT, distributed subs help cancel room modes. In larger spaces, room modes are not as concerning.

Bass frequencies are omnidirectional. So as a speaker radiates, if it is away from the wall, in the room, the part of the wave heading backwards hits the front wall and is reflected. It then runs into the forward wave, and if it is radiating at a frequency consistent with 1/4 wavelength from the wall, the waves are out of phase and they cancel. But the front wall is not the only wall in the room, and you can have suckouts at many frequencies. The videos over at real traps are very informative. Watch them, and watch them again. Early reflections are a bad thing for accurate fidelity, and all 1st reflections in typical HTs are early reflections.

To combat suckouts, you need either in-wall speakers, highly directional speakers down low, or absorption on the walls; front, rear, ceiling/sides, and floor in that order of importance. They are very hard to control, especially in the critical slam region between 100-250Hz.

One reason well mixed outdoor concerts have so much chest slam is that there are no suckouts. Only a very carefully set up HT will get you that kind of experience.

JSS
post #9897 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

OHF. Washington Monument Scene.

Absolutely incredible.
Finally had a chance to watch this and yeah, the Washington Monument scene rocked as did the White House blowing up scene. Lots of good ULF throughout and the gunfire was extraordinarily strong. Some of those scenes where the large caliber stuff was going off rattled my chest.

Whadda ride.....highly recommended.smile.gif
post #9898 of 16085
I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard. The scene where McClane throws a grenade and lights up the den in Chernobyl. That slow mo scene of the explosion sends a high SPL that lights up the max clipping LED (lift35 LED) on my Antimode 8033S-II. FYI, Even WOTW, TIH & Avengers don't light up the max clipping LED. A Good Day To Die Hard is the first movie to do that.

(this is with -3.5dB subwoofer trim level set on the AVR)

Wow...the soundtrack in A Good Day To Die Hard is indeed loud.
Edited by Skylinestar - 8/25/13 at 10:31pm
post #9899 of 16085
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

That's not my post. JWagstaff posted that.

Yes...it is your post...and your quote is included....in my quoting
post #9900 of 16085
The speakers are Swans 2.5
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