Samsung D7000 & D8000 Settings/Calibration Thread - Page 41

Side question, I've exchanged my ps64d8000 due to peeling screen. As it turns out the new set is much brighter, looks more impressive in regular viewing, however the lowest black is now also lighter and has a glow to it the previous set did not have. Maybe the black filter is now different or Good ol Samsung quality control means many of us are treated to unique sets. In default movie mode, black has the green specs going through at 55 brightness, dropping it eliminates spots but the MLL will only drop so far.

Anyway the question is, how are plasma panels driven? In CRT days the chassis gain could be adjusted to drive the tube with more or less power, too much and you'd get the speckles in black. Is plasma similar in this regard? We talk about calibration using software, but is there a hardware component beyond this than can achieve results beyond what is available at the push of button? Certainly turning a pod to lower the power to my panel to improve the blacks a touch would be desirable. Perhaps the power gain is even able to be driven by software in the service menu?

muzzakus,

The new panels certainly do have a different anti-reflection filter. It is not as good as the original but at least it seems not to peel.

I haven't seen or measured any difference (within the repeatability of my meters) in the black level between the original and the new panels.

WRT changing voltage to reduce the black level -- no, no, no. Plasma operation is totally different from CRT. Search Wikipedia and read http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1291382


Larry

Thanks Larry, good info there. But from what I gather overall, there is room for upper and lower voltage window based on sets ability to dynamically adjusting it due to heat, startup etc.

If what I surmise is correct there could be some potential for slight adjustments to a baseline voltage thus effecting MLL. Complete speculation, thanks for
the quality link, enjoyed the tech talk.

I have a question about the d series panels and Plasma's in general.

Does anyone ever see a very, very faint grayish Line about 4" from the top of the screen?

Before recommending service to my panel, it seems like the last few Plasma's over the size of 50" had this same thing.

My c8000 did this too. Another member recommended that I service and replace it. I did. But this one does it too.

I went to a BB and both of their d Plasma's did it as well and at the same parts of Lion King. It is a shot of the sky with movement.

Seems subtle and you do not always even see it, anyone seeing this occasionally? I doubt that all 4 displays I have owned in the last 3 years were duds, showing the same exact thing.

Tried different cables, line conditioners, etc.

I'm on my 2nd 64D8000 and what you described sounds like my 1st set. It was very bright but the blacks weren't very dark. My 2nd set wasn't as bright but has darker blacks which I think is how the tv is suppose to look. Quality control might be the issue?

After further reading I'm quite confident too much voltage can create a brighter picture and higher MLL. Therfore lowering the voltage should inturn produce a dimmer picture, deeper blacks and eliminate sparkles. Obviously up to a threshhold or correct function would be affected.

Such adjustment perhaps should be considered as part of optimal calibration? But what do I know. I guess the question is, can small voltage increments be made within the service menu without popping the bonnet?

Here's some material for those inclined :

http://forums.legitreviews.com/about14611.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=635482
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2928513/Sa...Plasma-Display
http://jopezu.com/plasma.htm
http://www.techlore.com/forum/thread...072-plasma-TV/

I think some retailers remove the filter as mine was very very reflective and it's not supposed to be with the filter on.

The voltage you are describing is used in what's called the pre-initialization phase. This is the phase in the drive pulse where the pixels are "warmed up" so that they can respond quickly enough to display a moving image. Too much voltage creates pixels that fire before they are supposed to (blue and red speckle). Too little voltage creates misfires (black speckle). The mll induced by the pre-initialization voltage can not be adjusted or you will run into the problems you have linked to. The light output on plasmas is not proportional to voltage, it's proportional to the frequency in which the pixels are turned off and on (read about pulse width modulation). The only way to reduce/eliminate mll is to change the driving scheme by using more efficient phosphors and/or different gases.

Thanks Zoyd, but is not the infamous Panasonic rinsing blacks over time directly linked to deliberate pre programmed voltage increase as compensation for an aging and dimming panel? Or a higher MLL for the first few minutes on a cold panel till steady operating temp is reach also not directly linked to the voltage? Im not sure why this is not indeed the pre-initialization voltage discussed. Just trying to wrap my head around it, and also as to why the same model of tv could have such differing results, different phosphors & gasses? or a simpler reason?

Good point, however the voltage was probably pre-programmed to rise to avoid misfires (not dimming) as the panel aged. There will always be some engineering margin built into such decisions and on some percentage of the panels they produced you could probably set the voltage back to it's day 0 value and recover the mll without misfires. So you could argue that given panel variation there may be some extra margin in the pre-initialization voltage of some panels that would allow you to reduce it without misfires.

Do you mean the reflective coating on the glass? That seemed the same on both units I had. It was the picture brightness and black level that was different.

The 1st unit was awesome in a bright room and too bright in the dark at cell 20. It also buzzed like crazy. If they can only make a set that can look like that during the day and dimm down to normal at night. It would be impressive to say the least.

Hi, zoyd.

The voltage rise was indeed pre-programmed to rise to prevent unwanted pixel firing. The patents that xrox found clearly show the technique used. Many Panasonic owners (including a number of electronic and software engineers) attempted to set the voltage back by both hardware and programming methods. Over at least a two year period, nobody was successful.


Larry

Isn't this thread supposed to be about calibration?

Yes. But setting the black level value is a part of calibration.

Larry

I am 30 days in with my 64D8000 and have decided to go with TiVoHD's settings after trying a ton of them out.. With DirecTV you might want to change your HDMI black level to Normal and fire up the sharpness a bit (26 on mine) and go to Standard vs. Warm2 for Sports, but other than that they look awesome! Just a pointer I wanted to share with any other newbees as this took me a ton of hours to figure out!!!

I'm a little puzzled about which settings apply to which modes/inputs/etc. Specifically:

- Which settings (if any) are per-input? (i.e. HDMI1 vs. HDMI2 vs. Component vs. USB)
- Which settings (if any) are per-material? (i.e. 480i vs. 1080i vs. 1080p/24)
- Which settings (if any) are per-mode? (Movie vs. Dynamic, etc.)

And are input/material/mode all independent? Or are the per-material settings also specific to each input? Are the modes overarching, or are they also per input?

In short, how many different places do I need to enter settings (cell light, brightness, contrast, screen adjust, pixel orbiter, game mode, etc.)?

Question in Screen fit the picture seems to not fill the whole screen with my DVR CABLE BOX, there is a black space on the top of the pic, some show and commercial show more line others less

any clue how to fix it ?
I have my cable box to up convert so channels like fox will. Be 1080i for football games (since there high def sucks for games)

Any thoughts would be great

^^^ Take it off of Screen Fit and use 16x9 for cable or satellite.

I remember reading that Chad B., a professional calibrator, quite respected in these forums, had listed the 16x9 setting for non-Blu-ray/Dvd feeds on one of the calibrations he did for an AVS member (which was posted by that member).

Personally, I leave it on Screen Fit and just deal with the few instances (in my case) of underscan.

That must be a problem with the cable box and/or the broadcast itself.

Screen Fit mode provides perfect 1:1 pixel mapping (luminance map) with 1080p input signals (and other 16:9 resolutions -including interlaced ones- scale correctly as well) on every D-series PDP which I saw and calibrated.

Can't you use the CI slot and the TV's built-in tuner?

I don't know why Chad recommended using 16:9 for the cable/satellite box.

Maybe that particular customer watched channels that showed many old analog-NTSC-converted-to-digital programs. In that case, the analog data contained in the vertical blanking interval would show as the dancing white lines at the top of the screen when set for Screen Fit display. The inherent overscan with the 16:9 display will hide this.

Otherwise, there is no need to use 16:9. As janos said, screen fit provides 1:1 mapping which is most desirable.

Larry

Pardon me if I missed this but my new PN59D8000 doesn't have the CALIBRATE-DAY or CALIBRATE-NIGHT picture options (like my PN58C8000). The modes I have are Dynamic, Standard, Movie and Relax............Am I missing something here?

My D8000 does the same thing with my PVR when set to screen fit, with some programs it will have really skinny black bars down the sides and sometimes a little top and bottom.

My PVR has an option to enlarge the screen by increments of 1 through to 5 which basically overscans at very small percentages. It remembers the settings for each different channel and on channels I have had to have the setting on +1 when I change it back to the inbuilt tuner, the inbuilt tuner which is set to 16x9 (screen fit not available) is overscanning quite a bit more than my PVR. You can tell by where the channel logo's are situated and their size.

All in all if your PVR or cable box does not have these settings options and you are having problems with the screen aspect, 16x9 would be your only bet

Does anyone know what the latest version number is for the D7000? I have called a few stores around me and it seems like there is a lot of 502's and 503's. I found one 504 and told them to hold it for me. Could someone with a August/September build tell me what their version number is? I just want to make sure I get a good build.

Chad recommended screen fit for my cable input. So i'm sure that was a user specific case. He pulled up a pattern to show the difference between screen fit and 16:9 and it was easily apparent which to use.

Humm, well with blu ray I fine with screen fit. The cable box which is Charter DVR Scientific Atlantic Explorer 8300HDC I have it hooked up via HDMI, my tv is 51D7000 Aug build. No peeling or buzzing after about two weeks, and a lot of use. (so far so good)
I have the DVR picture format on up convert 1 to get 1080i, for programming that is not.
As far as I know no cable HD programming is 1080p on charter it all reads 1920*1080i @60Hz

I'm fine with using 16:9 for HD programming, but I prefer to use and have the best tightest pic possible

All you guys and this forum are fantastic a a ton of help, the calibration info has been priceless so thanks all.
I'll keep tweaking till is as good as I can get it

Oh, one last thing if I just keep it at screen fit will there be burn in ?
Or any problems with the strip of black

What is the CI slot ?

It stands for Common Interface. It is found only in European markets where the DVB broadcast system is used. Where the ATSC broadcast system is used (in North America, for example) there is no CI slot.

Janos lives in Europe -- Hungary I believe.

Larry

right on, I'm in LA
THAX Guys !

^^Bump