or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Samsung D7000 & D8000 Settings/Calibration Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Samsung D7000 & D8000 Settings/Calibration Thread - Page 42

post #1231 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post


^^Bump

You have to get into the service menu to unlock. It's somewhere in this thread.
post #1232 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallen234 View Post

You have to get into the service menu to unlock. It's somewhere in this thread.

OK - is this the (MUTE 182 POWER) sequence?

Is my assumption correct that I can adjust each picture mode (Standard, Dynamic, Movie and Relax) that it will retain these settings when power is lost to the set? I may not need the Calibrate-Day and Calibrate-Night modes if I can adjust at least one of those standard four modes and have the set keep the settings permanently. I rarely use more than 1 mode anyway.
post #1233 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

OK - is this the (MUTE 182 POWER) sequence?

Is my assumption correct that I can adjust each picture mode (Standard, Dynamic, Movie and Relax) that it will retain these settings when power is lost to the set? I may not need the Calibrate-Day and Calibrate-Night modes if I can adjust at least one of those standard four modes and have the set keep the settings permanently. I rarely use more than 1 mode anyway.

yes, once in the service menu you can enable D/N mode under expert and it can be set as common for all inputs or on a per input basis (applies to the 10pt settings only).

All user menu settings are saved across power cycles. Only Movie and Cal D/N have 10 pt. grayscale/gamma adjustments and you can only build one custom color space per input. I calibrate Cal D/N for the obvious reason - a daytime and nighttime setting in which the only changes are contrast, brightness, and gamma.
post #1234 of 3298
@zoyd

Did you find a proper Sharpness value?
I can see either sharpening or blurring but it never feels unmolested. I am currently using 6, because it seems to be correct for the rest of the shades but it blurs the dark shades.
I think I will play with the detailed TDM Sharpness settings.
post #1235 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

yes, once in the service menu you can enable D/N mode under expert and it can be set as common for all inputs or on a per input basis (applies to the 10pt settings only).

All user menu settings are saved across power cycles. Only Movie and Cal D/N have 10 pt. grayscale/gamma adjustments and you can only build one custom color space per input. I calibrate Cal D/N for the obvious reason - a daytime and nighttime setting in which the only changes are contrast, brightness, and gamma.

Thanks everyone!

My C8000 had a GUI that was a bit more elegant than the new one. New one seems to be more generic and simple. I don't remember having to access a service menu to get full access - I remember my reasoning for buying the 8000 series over the 7000 was the better and more complete menus.
post #1236 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Where the ATSC broadcast system is used (in North America, for example) there is no CI slot.

Janos lives in Europe -- Hungary I believe.

Ah, yes, sorry.

Take it as Can't you use the TV's own built-in tuner?
post #1237 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

you can only build one custom color space per input

Oh, no. I wanted to unlock these modes in the disabled (*for EU models) Expert menu to walk through this limitation and reduce the number of my cables.

According to my measurements, 60 and 96 Hz (24Hz with CS) panel refresh modes require different calibration settings, including the Color Space settings.
I guess there is some unwanted interaction between the grayscale and color space controls and it's understandable that different panel refresh rates requires different grayscale settings.

So, I had to connect 2 (actually 3) cables and calibrate one input for movie watching and one for gaming. But it's annoying to switch between them.

I hoped Cal-Day/Night have their own independent settings memories for every settings.
post #1238 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

Oh, no. I wanted to unlock these modes in the disabled (*for EU models) Expert menu to walk through this limitation and reduce the number of my cables.

According to my measurements, 60 and 96 Hz (24Hz with CS) panel refresh modes require different calibration settings, including the Color Space settings.
I guess there is some unwanted interaction between the grayscale and color space controls and it's understandable that different panel refresh rates requires different grayscale settings.

So, I had to connect 2 (actually 3) cables and calibrate one input for movie watching and one for gaming. But it's annoying to switch between them.

I hoped Cal-Day/Night have their own independent settings memories for every settings.

Unfortunately, no (at least on NA models). Cal D/N share 2pt. and 10pt. WB and custom color is shared by all modes. What's even worse than not being able to use these modes for CS on/off calibration is that the custom color that works for Cal D/N is completely off for Movie mode. So you are essentially stuck with one mode again except for the ability to have two peak white/gamma settings. It may be possible to use the color mapping menu in the debug software to correct movie mode and use this as an additional fully calibrated mode if this mapping is the "native" color space in the user menu, I haven't tried that yet.

edit: In looking at the menu entries for colormapping I believe we will be able to customize both the Auto and Native colorspaces.

Confirmed - Native and Auto can be independently calibrated as additional colorspaces which will provide 2 completely independent modes per input (Movie + either Cal Day or Cal Night). Cal Day and Cal Night could also be assigned different colorspaces if desired although their WB settings are tied together.
post #1239 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

It may be possible to use the color mapping menu in the debug software to correct movie mode and use this as an additional fully calibrated mode if this mapping is the "native" color space in the user menu, I haven't tried that yet.

That could work.

Native should be uncorrected but... what the f&uck are those WCE settings?
I thought this Wide Color Enhancer is only a marketing BS and it only means that we have a wider phosphor gamut than Rec709.

I wanted to believe there is no any hard-coded idiotic feature which does some kind of gamut mapping with some magical saturation rendering intent or what not...
I wonder when it's effective? My best guess that it's always...

I am beginning to think I should chose the G30.
post #1240 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

That could work.

Native should be uncorrected but... what the f&uck are those WCE settings?
I thought this Wide Color Enhancer is only a marketing BS and it only means that we have a wider phosphor gamut than Rec709.

I wanted to believe there is no any hard-coded idiotic feature which does some kind of gamut mapping with some magical saturation rendering intent or what not...
I wonder when it's effective? My best guess that it's always...

I am beginning to think I should chose the G30.

It appears that native and auto are just two more RGBYCM(rgb) table adjustments and can be used just like the custom setting. So this is what I have done so far:

Calibrated Cal D/N + custom color space with CS off.
Calibrated Movie + native color space with CS on.

I am going to use the auto table for SD calibration with Cal D/N modes. About the WCE settings, I assumed these are related to the xvYCC wide gamut in the user menu.
post #1241 of 3298
Sounds promising. Is the above combination possible? (I am not entirely sure about what settings are shared across the modes and if there are other limitations in some particular modes...)

24Hz - Cal Day with CinemaSmooth, Native (Blu-Ray)
50Hz - Cal Night with Auto2, Auto (EU TV Shows)
60Hz - Movie, Custom (US TV Shows, PC games)
+ low latency PC mode for first person shooter games (it's independent already).

You say the Cal modes shares some settings and 100Hz (2x50hz) is already very similar to 96Hz (CS). 60Hz is significantly different.
post #1242 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

Sounds promising. Is the above combination possible? (I am not entirely sure about what settings are shared across the modes and if there are other limitations in some particular modes...)

24Hz - Cal Day with CinemaSmooth, Native (Blu-Ray)
50Hz - Cal Night with Auto2, Auto (EU TV Shows)
60Hz - Movie, Custom (US TV Shows, PC games)
+ low latency PC mode for first person shooter games (it's independent already).

You say the Cal modes shares some settings and 100Hz (2x50hz) is already very similar to 96Hz (CS). 60Hz is significantly different.

The most significant difference between 60Hz and 96Hz is the white balance and since the Cal D/N modes share WB settings you have to use Movie mode to fix it. So I recommend:

24Hz - Movie mode with CinemaSmooth, Native (Blu-Ray)
60Hz - Cal D/N, Custom color table, contrast etc. set normally for day or night viewing

50Hz - This depends on what differences you measure, group it with whichever white balance setting it is closer to from the above modes and then give it the auto color table if it needs color adjustment.
post #1243 of 3298
I can't follow you.

96Hz and 100Hz are very similar. That's why I want them to be Cal Day and Cal Night, so only a slight fine-tuning would be necessary between them.
-> Do they share the basic Cool,Warm WP settings or the 2p adjustments? 10p adjustments are also fine for a bit fine-tuning across the entire gray-scale...

60Hz is significantly different form 96/100HZ, that's why I want it separately -> Movie

My PC room is almost perfectly sealed from the external light.
post #1244 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

It appears that native and auto are just two more RGBYCM(rgb) table adjustments and can be used just like the custom setting. So this is what I have done so far:

Calibrated Cal D/N + custom color space with CS off.
Calibrated Movie + native color space with CS on.

I am going to use the auto table for SD calibration with Cal D/N modes. About the WCE settings, I assumed these are related to the xvYCC wide gamut in the user menu.


zoyd,

Where are you finding the native color space adjustments? I find the auto adjustments but the native is eluding me.

Larry
post #1245 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

zoyd,

Where are you finding the native color space adjustments? I find the auto adjustments but the native is eluding me.

Larry

A=Auto
N=Native
ColorMapping
[0] A_Red_R
[1] A_Red_G
[2] A_Red_B
[3] A_Green_R
[4] A_Green_G
[5] A_Green_B
[6] A_Blue_R
[7] A_Blue_G
[8] A_Blue_B
[9] A_Yellow_R
[10] A_Yellow_G
[11] A_Yellow_B
[12] A_Cyan_R
[13] A_Cyan_G
[14] A_Cyan_B
[15] A_Magenta_R
[16] A_Magenta_G
[17] A_Magenta_B
[18] N_Red_R
[19] N_Red_G
[20] N_Red_B
[21] N_Green_R
[22] N_Green_G
[23] N_Green_B
[24] N_Blue_R
[25] N_Blue_G
[26] N_Blue_B
[27] N_Yellow_R
[28] N_Yellow_G
[29] N_Yellow_B
[30] N_Cyan_R
[31] N_Cyan_G
[32] N_Cyan_B
[33] N_Magenta_R
[34] N_Magenta_G
[35] N_Magenta_B
post #1246 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

I can't follow you.

96Hz and 100Hz are very similar. That's why I want them to be Cal Day and Cal Night, so only a slight fine-tuning would be necessary between them.
-> Do they share the basic Cool,Warm WP settings or the 2p adjustments? 10p adjustments are also fine for a bit fine-tuning across the entire gray-scale...

60Hz is significantly different form 96/100HZ, that's why I want it separately -> Movie

My PC room is almost perfectly sealed from the external light.

Cal D/N share 2pt and 10pt white balance. You can do it your way, it just makes more sense for me keep the basic D/N function for cable viewing (60Hz) but since you don't need a day setting that doesn't matter.
post #1247 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Cal D/N share 2pt and 10pt white balance.

Ah, so one of them is practically redundant.
You probably need to re-adjust the 10p settings after you change the contrast/brightness settings significantly.
post #1248 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

Ah, so one of them is practically redundant.
You probably need to re-adjust the 10p settings after you change the contrast/brightness settings significantly.

No actually, that's the nice thing about them, you can change contrast and gamma and not have to readjust white balance or color.
post #1249 of 3298
Sorry for asking this, but: Did you check this with actual measurements?

It sounds hard to believe that changing Cell Light and/or Contrast and/or Brightness doesn't affect the gray-scale reproduction and/or may be the gamut luminances as well.

I can see as the gray-scale is "dancing" a little bit as I move the Contrast slider up or down. For example, if IRE80 was a little bit pinkish and I reduce the contrast then this pinkish shade moves to IRE90, and so on. (I talk about little differences, the grayscale is generally smooth - but not perfect...)
post #1250 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeJeffRun View Post

Good morning all.

I have been reading this thread with great appreciation since April, when I purchased a PN51D7000. Special thanks to LarryInRI, Koffas, Zoyd, and AtDaBeach for their continuing support of this forum.

My first attempt at DIY calibration took place last night (I should say all night). I'm getting used to the i1 D2 and ColorHCFR now, but certainly need more practice. Knowledge might also help.

I have not yet adjusted color, only greyscale. My results are attached. I would appreciate any suggestions, especially regarding gamma at the 80% and 90% levels.

Here are the settings:
Mode: Movie
Peak White: 35ftL
Cell Light: 13
Contrast: 92
Brightness: 57
Sharpness: 10
Color: 51
Tint: 51/49
Black Tone: off
Dynamic: off
gamma: 0
RGB Only: off
Flesh Tone: off
Edge Enhance: off
Motion Light: off
xvYcc: off
Color Tone: warm2
Digital Noise: off
mpeg Noise: off
HDMI Black Level: normal
Film Mode: off

Color Space: Auto(for now)

White Balance
r-offset 21
g-offset 26
b-offset 23
r-gain 13
g-gain 27
b-gain 31

10-point :
r1 -1
g1 0
b1 +1
r2 0
g2 0
b2 +1
r3 0
g3 0
b3 0
r4 0
g4 0
b4 0
r5 -1
g5 0
b5 -1
r6 0
g6 0
b6 0
r7 0
g7 0
b7 0
r8 0
g8 0
b8 0
r9 0
g9 0
b9 0
r10 0
g10 0
b10 0

Again, any and all feedback will be welcomed.

In my opinion, these are by far the best settings yet for the PN51D7000. I've had to toy with gamma and cell light, depending on vid source and ambient lighting, but these are the first calibrations that really make the TV pop. Great job!
post #1251 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

Sorry for asking this, but: Did you check this with actual measurements?

It sounds hard to believe that changing Cell Light and/or Contrast and/or Brightness doesn't affect the gray-scale reproduction and/or may be the gamut luminances as well.

I can see as the gray-scale is "dancing" a little bit as I move the Contrast slider up or down. For example, if IRE80 was a little bit pinkish and I reduce the contrast then this pinkish shade moves to IRE90, and so on. (I talk about little differences, the grayscale is generally smooth - but not perfect...)

I don't see any significant grayscale color shifts in the ramps and measurements agree. The average dE of Cal Day with respect to Cal Night is 2.0 with the largest shift at 30% stimulus of 3.9. The color agreement is even better with average dE agreement of 1.13, peak 1.9 (magenta). This is using the following settings:

Cal Night - Cell 18, Contrast 66, Brightness 57, average gamma 2.3
Cal Day - Cell 20, Contrast 76, Brightness 53, average gamma 2.2

By the way, the difference I measure in 60Hz vs. 96Hz is an average dE in the grayscale of 4.0 (pretty flat) and worst color difference in cyan (dE = 6)

SD vs. HD I measured dE's of 3-4 for both red and green, 10 for blue when SD patterns are played with HD primaries so I'm now using the Auto color table for SD material.
post #1252 of 3298
Hey guys,

I've been reading the forums for a while because I've been wanting to buy the PN51D8000 for quite a while. I finally rolled the dice and got lucky, I believe. My TV doesn't buzz unless your face is nearly in the screen.

That being said, I've been reading a lot of the calibration threads and I used one of the recommended settings (Zoyd) for movies and it looks beautiful. My only problem is that I played a PS3 game (NHL 12) and the colors just aren't that attractive. Gaming Mode is better than all the other settings but still not as beautiful as movie mode is to movies. The movie calibration simply makes the game too dark.

I was wondering if anyone had a recommended setting that I could use for gaming only.

Also, I unboxed my TV today and immediately applied the calibration. Is that ok?

Thanks :-)
Pat
post #1253 of 3298
I have a 59D8000. I have gone through and done many, many calibrations using CalMan and a colormunki. I feel like I am doing something fundamentally wrong. So one question I have is, when u adjust the 30 and 80 points using the 2pt is this like a course adjustment and the 10pt is the fine? Which adjustment is for gamma and which one is for WB? I guess my real question is what am I changing when I adjust these controls.

Thanks
post #1254 of 3298
Start with a default Movie or Cal-D/N mode (reset your settings).

Turn off any image "improvement" features you can in both Advanced Settings and Picture Options (dynamic contrast, black tone, noise filter, etc). And engage CinemaSmooth if available. (Make sure that ECO sensor and Power Saving are turned off in the General settings.)

Choose a target gamma: ~2.2 for bright, ~2.35 for dim and ~2.45 for dark rooms (I target 2.40 because the room is sealed but the walls are white...)
for ~2.2, leave your Gamma at 0, for ~2.3 set it to -1 and for ~2.4, set it to -2 (In case you calibrate with 60Hz, set it one notch lower if you go below 0).
-> You can measure the gray-scale to choose the value.

Set the Cell Light to get a comfortable peak white output (or measure 100% white with a Small APL gray-scale pattern and set it to achieve 80-120 for dark-bright room).

Go through the Basic Settings section of the AVSHD test disc to set up Contrast, Brightness and Sharpness using your naked eyes (skip Color and Tint).
(You may also want to take a look at the gray ramp from the Misc / Additional section to set the Contrast properly. -> lower it if near-white looks tinted)

Use the Red and Blue 2p controls to set 30% and 80% (do not touch the Green gain).
Move all the Red,Green,Blue gains from 10p together to get the luminance (gamma) as close as possible to your target curve.
Use the 10p Red and Blue gains to correct the white balance across the gray-scale (do not touch Green unless you want to alter the luminance).

Now start it over from the Basic adjustments:
Check if black (Brightness) is still aligned properly and you still didn't run out of the digital contrast.
Measure the whole gray-scale again and do some fine-tuning if necessary (for both gamma and white balance).
Repeat the whole cycle as many times as you feel it necessary but three times should be more than enough (unless you did something wrong).

Calibrate your Custom Color Space settings. (Set up every colors one-by-one...)

Check you gray-scale again and re-measure your 2D gamut. Do some fine-tuning if you feel it necessary.

If every charts look good in CalMan, then check the sanity of the settings by loading up the small and big step gray ramps and the color steps patterns from the Misc / Additional section (use your naked eyes).


Many will probably disagree, but I recommend to use the Small APL patterns (or may be small windows if you can, but not the big APL ones or the big windows) and measure the gamut at 100% (not default 75%).

Another advice: Set your player/box to output in this priority: YCC 4:2:2, YCC 4:4:4, RGB Limited, RGB Full (the actual names can vary from devices to devices, YCC is often Rec709, RGB sometimes just Limited and Full, etc).
post #1255 of 3298
Jnos666. Thanks for the reply. One thing that u stated is not to touch the green gain and offset at 30 and 80 when doing the 2pt. I have read that before from other people but was wondering why when cnet calibrated this set they adjusted the green gain and offset?
post #1256 of 3298
I have no idea why the CNET calibrator changed the Green gain.
There could be various reasons to do that but I couldn't find any with these D-series PDPs. It's the best to leave it as is.

For example, when you have 2p options only (no 10p) then you may want to tweak the tonal response (~gamma) a bit by adjusting the luminance at 30 and 80% levels. (It can be useful in PC mode.)
Another possible situation is when you have color clipping problems (you run out of the digital contrast) which can't be solved with the Contrast control and you try to lower all the gains a bit.
Nothing else comes to my mind but there could be various reasons.

My best guess is that the CNET calibrator wasn't familiar with the TV or he acted like an android and followed a strict routine, no matter what. Or he experimented even more than me and he found it better this way. I don't know...
post #1257 of 3298
Hi, I've a 64D8000 and miss the motion judder canceler of the 63C7700.
Do someone know if it's possible to activate it on the 64D8000? maybe through the service menu?
Thanks for your help on this.
post #1258 of 3298
I haven't seen anything referring to motion/judder controls in the SM.
post #1259 of 3298
Ok I tried entering in 4 of the 8000 series calibrations and I hated all of them...just looked way too dim

So far my favorite (don't throw stones) is Dynamic picture mode, the colors aren't perfect but I guess I like a bright image. Are there any customer calibrations that have an image more in line with the Dynamic picture mode?
post #1260 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

Ok I tried entering in 4 of the 8000 series calibrations and I hated all of them...just looked way too dim

So far my favorite (don't throw stones) is Dynamic picture mode, the colors aren't perfect but I guess I like a bright image. Are there any customer calibrations that have an image more in line with the Dynamic picture mode?

Well that's the thing about calibration, other than ranges for contrast and gamma there is only one answer. If each mode could be "calibrated" the picture would be identical for all modes. If you prefer an uncalibrated image then you'll have to adjust to your taste since there is no way for someone else to know what you prefer. Also remember that using the settings in this thread does not mean your display is calibrated, it is probably closer to calibrated than the factory settings but still could have significant errors in grayscale or color. TivoHD and Cue's D8000 settings should be fine for a bright room, try one of them out for a couple of days to see if they grow on you and you may prefer setting dynamic contrast to low or medium.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Samsung D7000 & D8000 Settings/Calibration Thread