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Samsung D7000 & D8000 Settings/Calibration Thread - Page 44

post #1291 of 3298
Arent there settings somewhere on this set for cinema smooth and 96p? Never seent hem anywhere on there. Also maybe one of you will know what in the world I can do to get this movie to show in the proper aspect ratio. it's suppsoed to be 1.87:1 yet ahs bars on all four sides, while other movies of the same AR fill the screen. So I assume it's due to the whole anamorphic vs. not, but have never witnessed a situation on any other tv where no setting can get it to fill the screen properly. Only this tv.
post #1292 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnight77 View Post

Arent there settings somewhere on this set for cinema smooth and 96p? Never seent hem anywhere on there. Also maybe one of you will know what in the world I can do to get this movie to show in the proper aspect ratio. it's suppsoed to be 1.87:1 yet ahs bars on all four sides, while other movies of the same AR fill the screen. So I assume it's due to the whole anamorphic vs. not, but have never witnessed a situation on any other tv where no setting can get it to fill the screen properly. Only this tv.

Cinema Smooth invokes 96Hz to allow for proper 3:2 pull down. To choose it, you need to set the "Film Mode" setting to CInema Smooth.

For your picture issue, choose "Screen Fit" to fully fill the screen, utilizing every pixel. But, your source (cable box, PS3, etc.) need to be outputting the proper signal. Make sure you have them set to output to a widescreen tv.
post #1293 of 3298
@zoyd

Well, I am not entirely sure how to compare the values with yours because I have different number of items in some sub-menus and I rarely see the name or the ID of the items. But some menus seem to be identical (these are mostly the calibration settings).

I will try to read some service manual to find the meaning of the settings.


0 Sub Setting defaults
[0] 0.95
[1] 0
[2] 100
[3] 0
[4] 0
[5] off
[6] on
[7] 60
[8] 110
[9] off
[10] off
[11] off
[12] on
1 EPA Standard defaults
[0] ... 95
[1] ... 45
[2] ... 50
[3] ... 50
[4] ... 0
[5] ... 9
2 WBMovie defaults/switches
[0] W/B MOVIE ON/OFF
[1] MODE Dynamic/Movie/Natural
[2] Color Tone Cool/Normal/Wamr1/Warm2
[3] MSub Brightness 128
[4] MSub Contrast 128
[5] N_Rgain 1
[6] N_Bgain -7
[7] N_Roffset -3
[8] N_Boffset -1
[9] W2_Rgain 10
[10] W2_Bgain -38
[11] W2_Roffset -4
[12] W2_Boffset 5
[13] Movie Contrast 95
[14] Movie Bright 55
[15] Movie Color 50
[16] Movie Sharpness 20
[17] Movie Tint 0
[18] Movie Backlight 16
[19] Movie Gamma OFF/0.85+
[20] M_Sub_Gamma 0
[21] HDMI Black Level Normal
3 WCE Wide Color Enhancer
[0] ... 70
[1] ... 16
[2] ... 64
[3] ... 16
[4] ... 38
[5] ... 18
[6] ... 50
[7] ... 17
[8] ... 64
[9] ... 17
[10] ... 64
[11] ... 16
[12] ... 64
[13] ... 16
[14] ... 64
[15] ... 16
[16] ... 64
[17] ... 16
[18] ... 64
[19] ... 16
[20] ... 64
[21] ... 16
[22] ... 64
[23] ... 16
4 VDEC
[0] AGC_mode 3
[1] AGC_manual_gain 74
[2] IFcomptype 1
[3] IFcompSel 15
[4] Saturation Cb/Cr 145
[5] Secam Filter Sel 0
[6] RGB Delay 150
[7] Peaking Gain 0
[8] Coring Gain 3
[9] Chroma Peak_NTSC 10
[10] 2D V Peak 0
[11] 2D H Peak 0
[12] 2D Peak Gain 0
5 Sharpness
[0] Post_H1 34
[1] Post_H2 16
[2] Post_H3 10
[3] Post_H4 12
[4] Post_V1 28
[5] Post_V2 20
[6] Post_H2 Overshoot 20
[7] Post_H2 Undershoot 20
[8] Post_H3 Overshoot 20
[9] Post_H3 Undershoot 20
[10] Core Gain1 1
[11] Core Gain2 2
[12] D_Tot_Gain 34
[13] S_Tot_Gain 34
7 Enhance
[0] BLE_Gain 26
[1] D Sub Color 80
[2] D Skin Hue 64
[3] D Skin Sat 16
[4] S Sub Color 65
[5] S Skin Hue 54
[6] S Skin Sat 16
[7] M Sub Color 58
[8] M Skin Hue 70
[9] M Skin Sat 16
[10] Sub Tint 53
[11] CE_Normal_Left_Gain 25
[12] CE_Normal_Right_Gain 25
[13] CE_Normal_Offset -5
[14] CE_Special_Left_Gain 15
[15] CE_Special_Right_Gain 10
[16] CE_Special_Offset -50
[17] CE_S_Left_Gain 10
[18] CE_S_Right_Gain 10
[19] CE_S_Normal_Offset 0


I was clueless about Sharpness because I have no Pre_* values to match the Post values with them.
But it seems that zeroing out every values does nothing with Sharpness=0 but it seems to make everything between 0-50 identical and only >50 creates an insane sharpening.
So I guess I am only unsatisfied with Sharpness=0 in Movie mode because of the internal 4:2:2 chroma downsampling (which doesn't happen in PC mode) but there is no blurring with 0.


What else do you think I should try to tweak?

1: Wide Color Enhancer
It sounds like a very bad joke. But I have no clue how to disable it by modifying these values (I don't even know the name of the menu items...) and I have no clue when it is effective.
As much as I understand, WCE is some kind of gamut mapping, like a Saturation Color Rendering Intent (in ICC terms).
But it shouldn't be effective with anything else than may be Native or Auto (in Dynamic mode?) but never with Custom color (or Movie/Cal modes). But who knows...? I experienced some non-linearity in the CMS, may be WCE caused that (not the imperfect CMS algorithms and the rounding errors alone...).


2: Enhance
What enhancements can depend on these settings? I have no clue when they are effective.
But I think these are only there for the "Skin Tone" and "Dynamic Contrast" or "Black Tone" enhancements which can be disabled in the normal user menu.
But then again... who knows...?

BLE = Black Tone
post #1294 of 3298
I agree about Enhance, so far there is nothing in there you can't achieve in the user menu. The WCE might only be active when the input signal is xvYCC (or maybe deep Color) so it may also be useless. The labels for that one with my default settings are:

WCE
[0] MCC2_U 100
[1] MCC2_V 60
[2] MCC3_U 168
[3] MCC3_V 168
[4] MCC4_U 132
[5] MCC4_V 118
[6] MCC5_U 128
[7] MCC5_V 158
[8] PPHC_R1 4
[9] PPHC_R2 2
[10] PPHC_G -3
[11] PPHC_B 8
[12] PPHC_C 10
[13] PPHC_M -27
[14] PPHC_Y 4
[15] PPSC_GAIN1_R 128
[16] PPSC_GAIN2_R 130
[17] PPSC_GAIN2_G 128
[18] PPSC_GAIN2_B 134
[19] PPSC_GAIN2_C 128
[20] PPSC_GAIN2_M 133
[21] PPSC_GAIN2_Y 138

Color non-linearity is interesting, I started testing that the other day but didn't get too far. I noticed there is a measurable difference in red when using the small vs. large APL patterns, dE ~ 3-4, do you notice such things?
post #1295 of 3298
Yes, the APL can also make a difference but I think it's only another symptom.
I found that the primary channel gradients have fluctuating chromaticity: calibrate your colorsapce at 75% and then check the gamut readings at 40% and 100%. The difference isn't huge or unbearable (I don't really see it with my naked eyes, it's hard to catch even on test patterns and I think it's nothing to worry about with movies, but still...).

I found it's the nest to use Small APL patterns for everything.

Yes, it makes sense if the xvYCC mode uses those settings WCE settings.
I have different number of items and very different values by the way.
post #1296 of 3298
So to summarize, the practical applications of service menu editing with the debug console that I have found so far are:

1. Changes do not reset user settings (yay! I don't have to re-enter all my 10-pt. cal numbers after tweaking)
2. Two additional custom color tables can be constructed.
3. The gamma setting can be used to achieve 2.4 in Cal D/N modes (previously it was tough to do this without running into limits on the 10 pt. adjustments)
4. ADC calibration is easy to do in different picture modes.
post #1297 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

4. ADC calibration is easy to do in different picture modes.

So I am not the only one who wants to play with the "ADC Results" values as a part of the gray scale calibration?

I think I will use these instead of the Contrast/Brightness controls because these are practically the same, but there are controls for all the RGB color channels separately.

EDIT: Ah, forget it. It's not a good idea because these settings are shared across every picture modes and inputs, so only one of them could be fine-tuned.
post #1298 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob67 View Post

Cinema Smooth invokes 96Hz to allow for proper 3:2 pull down. To choose it, you need to set the "Film Mode" setting to CInema Smooth.

For your picture issue, choose "Screen Fit" to fully fill the screen, utilizing every pixel. But, your source (cable box, PS3, etc.) need to be outputting the proper signal. Make sure you have them set to output to a widescreen tv.

I did. I already had the blu ray player set to 16:9 and the tv to screen fit and it would not work. Had black bars on all four sides. Same with every other combo of settings.
post #1299 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnight77 View Post

I did. I already had the blu ray player set to 16:9 and the tv to screen fit and it would not work. Had black bars on all four sides. Same with every other combo of settings.

Has to be your player or the media you are attempting to watch. If it is a DVD, make sure the upscale settings on your player are properly set and make sure the DVD is anamorphic widescreen.

My PS3 upscales DVDs flawlessly on this set with the proper ratio.
post #1300 of 3298
The disc I am guessing was not anamorphic, but even when it's not I have always seen them work on other tvs I could have sworn. But yes that's my guess since other movies with the same AR work properly. This movie was released probably 10-15 years ago.
post #1301 of 3298
Ah, just as I thought, the "ADC Results" can be used to "permanently" adjust the gray-scale as much as possible with two tree-axial controls.

I started from a default Movie mode and I set the Cell Light to 20, Sharpness to 0, Gamma -2, Color Tone to Normal and I set this Normal color tone to 0,0,0,0 (all of these in the TDM) and I disabled the noise filter in the normal user menu (I didn't find it in the TDM yet).

I set the ADC Results to 200,200,200,0,0,0 to start with and I used the latter three to set up the white temperature to D65 at IRE100 (I used a small white rectangle on a black background) and the first three to independently align the primary color gradients to black (I had to lower the values until every color noise disappeared from the black background).

I rebooted the TV just in case, and it seems OK.

It's a bit tricky to handle these controls because every primary channels behave according to the control you touched last time -> the black alignment required two iteration steps and a last check after a reboot. And I had to switch between Movie and some other Picture modes after I made any changes to the last white point controls to make it effective. But it didn't take too long and I am happy with the results.

The peak white luminance is ~107 now, I will decide if I want to keep it or increase the last three controls together to decrease it a bit.


May be it's only placebo, but it seems like my gray-scale is a tiny bit smoother than it was when I used the 2p user menu controls over the underlaying SM Movie_WP adjustments. I think those controls are offsets for these values but I am not sure. And I never touched the Green Gains in either the SM or in the user menu. Now, I played with all the six values together to optimize them...
post #1302 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

May be it's only placebo, but it seems like my gray-scale is a tiny bit smoother than it was when I used the 2p user menu controls over the underlaying SM Movie_WP adjustments. I think those controls are offsets for these values but I am not sure. And I never touched the Green Gains in either the SM or in the user menu. Now, I played with all the six values together to optimize them...

I do not think the normal WB controls are offsets to these. These controls occur before the 10bit VP when mapping input signals to the video processor (like an ICC profile but with the ability to under and overshoot the VP range ) so I would be a little worried if they stray too far from their calibrated values, especially if the high end of one color was much different from another color (banding perhaps?) What were the differences between original and final values? Any evidence of color clipping? I also don't see why they would generate any smoother grayscale than the 2pt in the VP does.
post #1303 of 3298
the AVforum.com review (which I realize is UK) of the d8000 64inch says that you can't turn off noise reduction unless you're in game mode. Has this been fixed by firmware? Can you make all the expert calibrations in game mode? Or is this only a UK issue I don't need to worry about?
post #1304 of 3298
I don't know, but Samsung is dumb. Not only is the whole brightness fluctuations some experience due to soemthing as simple as Samsung not letting a feature be optional, but the morons make it where if you're in game mode YOU MUST use movie sound setting and can't change it to standard or normal or whatever it's called. The point of game mode is mostly to cut down on lag, not to force someone to use a surround type of audio! So for rock band 3 it's not good to play in game mode,l for example due to the music not sounding right.
post #1305 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

These controls occur before the 10bit VP when mapping input signals to the video processor (like an ICC profile but with the ability to under and overshoot the VP range ).

Is the VP 10-bit only? As I remember Samsung claimed 18-bit for the C Series and my previous display with it's 12-bit VP didn't tolerate the calibration this much (yap, it also depends on the algorithms, calculation precision isn't everything, but...).


For some reason I thought ADC is placed after the VP where the analog LVDS signal is converted from the digital data. (And I wondered why it's ADC and not DAC. And now that I wrote it down I remember I solved this puzzle earlier and I just forgot it. )

In this case, it's better to keep the ADC Results at their nominal values.
By the way, do you know the nominal values? (Not your actual auto-calibration results.) The automatic calibration can give me slightly different results depending on where I left the values before I run it.

Anyway, forget about it. I took some more gray-scale readings today and it isn't that smooth.
Yes, there is a small Red clipping at the upper end, so IRE100 is cut to produce D65 and otherwise the whole gradient is smooth but evenly reddish below ~IRE95.
post #1306 of 3298
Sorry, bad choice of words, the ADC is 10 bit (look at the target values) so the VP can be better resolution with upsampling. LVDS is digital. Nominal values from the service manual for _L=131 and _H=107. The HDMI target values are not editable, upper one is 940 which leaves some room for Superwhites, but was thinking of setting for full scale 16-235 to increase resolutions, what do you think?
post #1307 of 3298
I need BTB and WTW because this is my PC monitor, and my VGA card always outputs Full Range RGB. (The range expansion hurts the video a bit but it's not that bad with 10 bit/color and I am free to add some dithering if I wish...)
Try to run a calibration with 16-235 RGB signal.

My ADC Results from the last autocal are L=134 H=49 (I calibrated with 0-255 RGB signal), so these settings aren't exchangeable between different models.

Where did you get the Service Manual? (Did you buy it or you just found it somewhere?)

----

Does anybody have a spreadsheet which can help to find the gamut luminance targets (especially for the secondary colors)?

I want to use ArgyllCMS instead of CalMan (it supports an "Adaptive HiRes" mode for my spectro), and I don't mind to combine it with MS Excel.

I know the reference x,y coordinates of the primaries and secondaries, and I can also calculate the luminance targets for the primaries, but I am clueless about the secondaries.
post #1308 of 3298
You can find a secondary brightness calculator on this page. I ended up buying the service manual.
post #1309 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

You can find a secondary brightness calculator on this page. I ended up buying the service manual.

Thanks.

Are the White Balance parameters under ADC/WB used by the VP or is this a pre-VP stuff too?
(I reset these values to 128 earlier because I couldn't calibrate them from Dynamic mode anyway.)
post #1310 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

Thanks.

Are the White Balance parameters under ADC/WB used by the VP or is this a pre-VP stuff too?
(I reset these values to 128 earlier because I couldn't calibrate them from Dynamic mode anyway.)

I don't know which side of the digitizer these apply to, they are all 128 by default.
post #1311 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

I want to use ArgyllCMS instead of CalMan (it supports an "Adaptive HiRes" mode for my spectro), and I don't mind to combine it with MS Excel.

I've been tempted to try their hi-res driver, have you compared your plasma WB or chromaticity between 10nm and 3.33nm resolutions?
post #1312 of 3298


dE2000 ~0.5 for white. I care more about the adaptive integration time mode. It's useful for displays with relatively high contrast and it's also more plasma dither friendly.

Quote:
they are all 128 by default.

I know. But how do you set them?
I want to keep as many settings at their default values as possible, so it's easier to handle the others (and avoid any possible counter-corrections...)

The service manual used to instruct the technician to calibrate every new panels with these WB settings. I guess it's better to keep these at 128 and set up Warm2 for D65.
post #1313 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

I know. But how do you set them?

Find these in your TDM

ID_WB_SUB_BRIGHTNESS = 118 [Sub Brightness] GetValue 128
ID_WB_ROFFSET = 119 [R-Offset] GetValue 128
ID_WB_GOFFSET = 120 [G-Offset] GetValue 128
ID_WB_BOFFSET = 121 [B-Offset] GetValue 128
ID_WB_SUB_CONTRAST = 122 [Sub Contrast] GetValue 132
ID_WB_RGAIN = 123 [R-Gain] GetValue 128
ID_WB_GGAIN = 124 [G-Gain] GetValue 128
ID_WB_BGAIN = 125 [B-Gain] GetValue 128
ID_WB_MOVIE_ROFFSET = 126 [Movie R-Offset] GetValue 0
ID_WB_MOVIE_BOFFSET = 127 [Movie B-Offset] GetValue 0
ID_WB_MOVIE_RGAIN = 128 [Movie R-Gain] GetValue 0
ID_WB_MOVIE_BGAIN = 129 [Movie B-Gain] GetValue 0
post #1314 of 3298
Sorry. I know how to change these values. I was curious if you leave them at 128 or you use them for your gray-scale calibration.
But your table answers my question: you leave them at 128. I did the same in the past (these controls were available in the plain Service Menu) and I decided to do it now too.

Did you intentionally increased your "Sub Brightness" or was it your default value?
I reset all of these values on my first main-board (which had factory calibrated values) and my current main-board (replacement) arrived with all-128 WB settings.

This Sub Brightness seems to be effective in non-Movie modes only but the Sub Brightness and the Gains/Cuts are "system wide" (they apply even for the PC mode which needs different ADC calibration settings).
post #1315 of 3298
You mean the sub-contrast value 132? That was my display's default.
post #1316 of 3298
good day all, I have the 51d6500 and when I set black level using the calibration disc from here, the one where you have the bars flashing and you want 17-25 to flash I belive. On my 42b450 I can set this perfectly no green,red, blue dancing pixels in bars but when I try this on the d6500 I get the dancing pixels in the bars. On the rest of the screen there is no green pixels mixed with the black, so I know the brightness and contrast isnt set to high. is something wrong with my tv or is that normal with a bigger screen and going from 720p to 1080p. I also get a lot of dithering(green pixels) from going from black to grey although I can only see up close maybe 2 ft away. I have uverse but I also see it on blu rays from ps3 also. Just curious if this is normal

thanks
stuart
post #1317 of 3298
If you are getting dancing green pixels on that brightness patter, in the left handside area thats blakc, brightness may still be too high. I use DVE, and when brightness is too high, the video black areas have green dancing pixels. Once brightness is right by the pattern, sometimes it takes one more click to kill the "greenies".
post #1318 of 3298
It's normal to see dithering (dancing pixels) in the 1st 1-2 bars on these displays with brightness set correctly.
post #1319 of 3298
In bars yes, in black outside, no. I use the DVE pluge as stated, not as familiar with the 709.
post #1320 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by movielocke View Post

the AVforum.com review (which I realize is UK) of the d8000 64inch says that you can't turn off noise reduction unless you're in game mode. Has this been fixed by firmware? Can you make all the expert calibrations in game mode? Or is this only a UK issue I don't need to worry about?


It was a problem only with the European models. It has been since fixed with a firmware update. Although there are similarities between the EU and North American models, there are differences too.

Larry
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