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Samsung D7000 & D8000 Settings/Calibration Thread - Page 86

post #2551 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

No effect, you should check your brightness setting just to be sure.

I am not exactly sure what may caused the differences but take a look at these two pre-cal measurements of a D550.
Things I did between these two pre-cal runs: logic borad update, main board update, ADC calibration. (The base WP calibration was already 8x128 as this was a replacement board and the technicians here do nothing after replacing parts...)

And as you can see it from the "final" report, it seems impossible to achieve as good results with the D550 as you got on your D8000.
The "good Samsung color" is only good on the D8000 with the Samsung chipset, not with these MStar boards...



I see you didn't use the report style with the absolute results. I think you should try it.


By the way, these kind of delta H,S,L charts does not work as fluid for these Samsungs as I hoped.
It seems perfect for the Panasonics where you have HSL controls but here it requires some brain-work to think it through what those numbers mean and what controls you have (HSL vs RGB -> for Red, R = luma, G+B moved together = S , the ratio of G-B = H but it gets more complicated with secondary colors...).
post #2552 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

I am not exactly sure what may caused the differences but take a look at these two pre-cal measurements of a D550.
Things I did between these two pre-cal runs: logic borad update, main board update, ADC calibration. (The base WP calibration was already 8x128 as this was a replacement board and the technicians here do nothing after replacing parts...)

And as you can see it from the "final" report, it seems impossible to achieve as good results with the D550 as you got on your D8000.
The "good Samsung color" is only good on the D8000 with the Samsung chipset, not with these MStar boards...



I see you didn't use the report style with the absolute results. I think you should try it.


By the way, these kind of delta H,S,L charts does not work as fluid for these Samsungs as I hoped.
It seems perfect for the Panasonics where you have HSL controls but here it requires some brain-work to think it through what those numbers mean and what controls you have (HSL vs RGB -> for Red, R = luma, G+B moved together = S , the ratio of G-B = H but it gets more complicated with secondary colors...).

yes, the D550 looks tough. I found that going through and minimizing dE(Luv) using the sat/luminance plots first in HCFR, which pushed red and magenta luminance down quite a bit compared to 100% windows, and then going to the report style helped speed things up.

I agree it's difficult to know which direction to push things toward improvements with this report style but I used those saturation and luminance tracking plots from HCFR as a guide to know where to tweak for highest benefit. A useful tool for displaycal would be realtime measurement/reporting, is this possible?

Is there an update to the report style which includes the absolute value button? I just downloaded what you posted.
post #2553 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Is there an update to the report style which includes the absolute value button? I just downloaded what you posted.

It was already included. Did you unpack the full archive to the DisplcalGUI folder (including both directories in the rar)?
post #2554 of 3298
yes, I put the .ti1 files in "ref" and report.html, compare.functions.js in "report" sub folders under DispCalGUI
post #2555 of 3298
I have a vga to hdmi converter which I have coming out of my laptop and going into the hdmi on my tv, pnxxd6500. The laptop only has a vga out. I am using a vga to hdmi converter. I get video which seems a little bit like somekind of interference in the signal shows through on the tv. I read that if you rename the video input to PC, that the image quality will be better. How do I go about renaming my hdmi2 to PC?? I apologise if this is not in the correct thread...
post #2556 of 3298
So I've been at this almost the entire day with PN59D7000. Thinking that I am stupid, but my display seams REALLY dim. I have Dell 27'' LCD right below my plasma, and compared to it the plasma looks INCREDIBLY dim.

I have messed around with dynamic contract, hdmi black level, and tried almost every single configuration in this thread, but the ABL on this display is EXTREMELY aggressive from what I can tell.

If a bright white flash envelopes the screen it looks like a muddy grey because the display brightness basically dims in half.

I feel like I'm alone in this though because I have seen so few people complain about this. I did not have this issue with my 5 year old Panasonic 42'' plasma.

At this point I'm very tempted to sell the set. I don't even understand how this even tolerable for others.

Very disappointed I'm if anyone could maybe give some insight I would really appreciate it. Could it be that my display is defective, is there any way to check and compare it against some of the settings in this thread?
post #2557 of 3298
Put that Dell LCD next to a Panasonic PDP which is set to Low panel brightness an it will be hard to tell if the plasma if even turned on.

Solution: Set the Brightness control lower (much lower, even as low as zero if necessary) on your LCD and watch the PDP in a dark room (block out the sunlight, turn of the lights, etc).
You will get used to this after a few days and you will like it because the LCD won't burn out your eyes anymore.
post #2558 of 3298
I've updated the 2nd post with new (and I think final) D8000 settings. Thanks to Janos for pointing me to the dispcalgui software and custom test reports that helped iron out some color problems at mid-APL levels. I've only listed settings for movie mode since the cal modes had some problems I couldn't calibrate out.
post #2559 of 3298
I finally completed a calibration of my PN51D7000. I posted prior results on March 1 on page 77 of this thread, but those results were not satisfactory to me. As before, I used ColorHCFR and an I1D2. Previously I said that we view in the evenings only, but have some dim lights on. With daylight savings now in effect, we are viewing both in daylight and in dim incandescent light.

Unlike my previous attempts, this calibration was guided by version two of Larrys methodology for using HCFR and the i1 LT (D2) or i1 Pro meters to calibrate the D7000 and D8000 models. What a gift. Thank you again, Larry, Zoyd, DonnyMac51 and all others who have contributed to that document and to this forum.

Here are my latest settings. They could be improved (gamma is not as flat as I would like, for instance), but I have no immediate plans to pursue this calibration further. I am, however, always interested in feedback and suggestions.

Mode Movie
Average gamma 2.26, target 2.25
Peak White 35.16
Cell light 14
contrast 90
brightness 70
sharpness 15
color 50
tint 50/50
black tone off
dynamic off
gamma -1
flesh tone 0
edge enhance off
motion lighting off
xvYcc off
color tone warm2
digital noise off
mpeg noise off

color space
Red_r 46
Red_g 50
Red_b 34
Green_r 80
Green_g 49
Green_b 3
Blue_r 38
Blue_g 0
Blue_b 49
Yellow_r 49
Yellow_g 52
Yellow_b 30
Cyan_r 100
Cyan_g 49
Cyan_b 52
Magenta_r 50
Magenta_g 56
Magenta_b 52

White Balance
r-off 27
g-off 26
b-off 19
r-gain 11
g-gain 28
b-gain 36

10-pt intervals
1: -2-2-1
2: 0 1 1
3: -1 0 0
4: -2-1-2
5: -1 0-2
6: 1 2 0
7: -1 0-1
8: 2 3 0
9: 2 2 2
10: 0 0 0

Grey Scale Delta E:
2.6\t2.4\t0.8\t1.4\t0.2\t1.5\t0.8\t0.3\t2.0\t0.7\t0.9

\t\t\tR\tG\tB\tY\tC\tM\t
Color Delta E:\t1.3\t1.0\t1.2\t1.0\t1.0\t0.6
Color Delta xy:\t0.001\t0.003\t0.002\t0.001\t0.002\t0.001
Color Delta Luma:\t=0 +0.1%+1.9%-0.4%-1.0%-0.5%

I wanted to tighten the blue delta luma but got tired and forgot.

Thank you all for your help and for this excellent thread.

Jeff\t3/31/12

 

SeeJeffRun_51D7_20120331.zip 2.95703125k . file
post #2560 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I've updated the 2nd post with new (and I think final) D8000 settings. Thanks to Janos for pointing me to the dispcalgui software and custom test reports that helped iron out some color problems at mid-APL levels. I've only listed settings for movie mode since the cal modes had some problems I couldn't calibrate out.

I have a 51D8000 also and am about to jump on your coat tails.
I assume your calibration is on a modded set, with your voltage tweaks for better blacks and fbr tweaks, but what about the WB settings in the SM (8 x 128, etc) and what about the custom APL windows?
post #2561 of 3298
Just a follow up on my previous rant. I'm much happier with the display now. One big advantage of using my computer is that I can resize the video to whatever size I want.

The other TV I was looking at was the 55'' Sony Bravia with the local dimming. I re-sized the video down 4 inches on each size and had black on the border. This display brightness increased drastically. Its almost as good as my LCD monitor now, and all I have to do is scoot the couch a bit closer and its the same experience.

Dark lighting also helped a lot after my eyes adjusted.

LOVE this screen now.
post #2562 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

I have a 51D8000 also and am about to jump on your coat tails.
I assume your calibration is on a modded set, with your voltage tweaks for better blacks and fbr tweaks, but what about the WB settings in the SM (8 x 128, etc) and what about the custom APL windows?

I'll post my whole set-up/calibration notes shortly and maybe the patterns too if I can get the BD in shape. I don't do any WB adjustments in the SM, just user menus. The only thing I do in the SM is turn off LCE (RS-232 access only). I've also gone back to factory ADC settings although there is no problem running the gain up a bit too clip some codes, I just didn't see any advantage to doing this.
post #2563 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I'll post my whole set-up/calibration notes shortly and maybe the patterns too if I can get the BD in shape. I don't do any WB adjustments in the SM, just user menus. The only thing I do in the SM is turn off LCE (RS-232 access only). I've also gone back to factory ADC settings although there is no problem running the gain up a bit too clip some codes, I just didn't see any advantage to doing this.

And by going back to factory ADC settings, do you mean you ran the ADC test pattern? If so, please include which one you used. If you just went to factory settings, do you mean the ones your 51D8000 came with or do you mean the 8 x 128 settings? I'm particularly interested in these ADC settings because my factory settings are very different from 8 x 128. I listed mine in a previous post (2531)
post #2564 of 3298
Yes, I ran the ADC pattern 16-255 from the disk I linked earlier but setting manually was fine too. Resulted in ADC _L values of 131 and _H values of 68. I used to have _H values of 111 which clipped above 240 with contrast at 92. Either set worked fine with minor adjustments to the gray scale in the user menu.

All of my WB values are set at 128, they all came from the factory that way and I haven't touched them.
post #2565 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Yes, I ran the ADC pattern 16-255 from the disk I linked earlier but setting manually was fine too. Resulted in ADC _L values of 131 and _H values of 68. I used to have _H values of 111 which clipped above 240 with contrast at 92. Either set worked fine with minor adjustments to the gray scale in the user menu.

All of my WB values are set at 128, they all came from the factory that way and I haven't touched them.

Your ADC values, both _L and _H are each only 1 point higher than my factory settings (67 and 130.) And they are not what your factory settings were.

My factory WB settings are not all 128, but they are fairly close. When I calibrate (Movie Mode) grayscale from the UM, I have to push red gain up to 38 in 2-point just to get enough headroom so that I can increase red to where it needs to be in 10-point. Even with that my red setting is 7 at the 10th point. My set seems to need a lot of extra red at the upper end just to get correct xy at all 10 points. I wonder if the red offset of 118, blue offset of 137, blue gain of 136 in the SM WB have anything to do with this ...

I'm tempted (and hesitant) to change everything in SM WB to 128 and see what happens. Or maybe I should put a pattern up and calibrate to 100% white in SM. Hesitant, because I get confused about the fact that this is basically Dynamic Mode/Cool and am not sure what that means wrt subsequent Movie mode WB calibration in UM of I calibrate D65 in SM.
post #2566 of 3298
Set your WB values to 128 and you should have an easier time, right now your blue gain there is too high, that's probably why you need more red. The alternative is to calibrate using the SM WB (which is the cool tone) and then use cool in the UM. Movie mode has separate values that are offsets to cool, you can also edit those in the SM but you shouldn't have to.
post #2567 of 3298
What is it called when you see "pixalization" in dark scenes with bright lights? Like movement of black/grey pixals around a light. I was watching fringe last night and noticed this a few times. Any ideas? I will try to take a picture of this when I get a chance.
post #2568 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Set your WB values to 128 and you should have an easier time, right now your blue gain there is too high, that's probably why you need more red. The alternative is to calibrate using the SM WB (which is the cool tone) and then use cool in the UM. Movie mode has separate values that are offsets to cool, you can also edit those in the SM but you shouldn't have to.

Just curious. How different are the SM WB values if SM WB calibration is done compared to all 128?

And, come to think of it, wouldn't the blue offset and blue gains be higher in the SM, since that is actually Cool color temp? I understand that Movie can be adjusted in UM, but aren't Cool and Standard color temps messed up with all 128 settings in SM?
post #2569 of 3298
so am i correct to assume i need an rs-232 to unlock movie wb in the sm?
post #2570 of 3298
zoyd,concerning your latest settings i see you have contrast set at 91. i thought i read somewhere that anything under 95 doesnt make use of the sets 10-bit processor? i too have my sm wb at 128and the adc is almost identical to yours and these settings look great btw!
post #2571 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Just curious. How different are the SM WB values if SM WB calibration is done compared to all 128?

With SM WB at 128 and SM movie offsets of:

r-offset 127
r-gain 139
b-offset 139
b-gain 89

my UM movie values are:

22 25 22 18 25 27


Quote:


And, come to think of it, wouldn't the blue offset and blue gains be higher in the SM, since that is actually Cool color temp? I understand that Movie can be adjusted in UM, but aren't Cool and Standard color temps messed up with all 128 settings in SM?

yes, WB SM = cool tone, everything else is an offset to that. You can calibrate cool to whatever color temp you want.
post #2572 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipoop2much View Post

so am i correct to assume i need an rs-232 to unlock movie wb in the sm?

yes, you can see those values using the emulator but to change them you need to edit with the top debug menu (TDM)

Quote:


zoyd,concerning your latest settings i see you have contrast set at 91. i thought i read somewhere that anything under 95 doesnt make use of the sets 10-bit processor? i too have my sm wb at 128and the adc is almost identical to yours and these settings look great btw!

That's the theory. To use the full 10 bits you set the ADC gain to clip above 235 with contrast set ~95 (any higher and the pinking is pretty bad) and then code 235 input = code 1023 in the DSP. I tested a fair amount of material with gradual gradients this way and could not see any difference in banding behavior. So technically it's the better approach but I haven't seen any actual benefit from doing it.
post #2573 of 3298
I have a question regarding the SM settings. If I´ve understood correctly, each panel comes with slightly different settings, due to a factory calibration. I had my panel replaced because of a dead pixel. Now, I´m wondering how much off my settings are with the new panel, as all of the settings are the same as before the panel was replaced.
I haven´t noticed that much of a difference, but what do you think, should I change them at all. I don´t have any equipment to calibrate with.
Here are my service menu settings:

sub brightness 128
r-offset 118
g-offset 128
b-offset 136
sub contrast 132
r-gain 116
g-gain 128
b-gain 125
post #2574 of 3298
I don't think they are actually calibrated (as in measured) at the factory, they probably do it for a few test samples for each model and then set them all to the same values. So without test equipment you should leave them there.

That brings up a good point though for those that have had main board replacements like me you might gotten a board with SM WB settings of 8x128 which means all the color tone selections will be off relative to factory settings.
post #2575 of 3298
Yeah, in my case, the main board replacement completely destroyed my Movie and Cal mode WB - extremely red in Warm 2. My board came with 7 ADC/WB values at 128, but sub-contrast at 132. Even with an ADC calibration and 8x128, my WB is terrible. It required major drops in SM gains to get things in line (I just went with the cool mode SM calibration since it's the simplest and safest, IMO).

I have always had the impression that Samsung was making set-specific adjustments to ADC/WB (based on a variety of results from people who have posted their settings). Maybe it's a lot-to lot thing, or maybe I'm just confused.

Zoyd, just wanted to confirm - the ADC test disc you currently have posted is the corrected version? I know the first one you put up had a problem, but the second one I downloaded (smaller file size) didn't seem to work right either. I see the file size is now back to the what it was when you first posted it (~36MB), but I haven't tried it yet.
post #2576 of 3298
yes, the one posted now should work fine using YCbCr, I haven't changed anything since the 1st update of that disk.
post #2577 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Your ADC values, both _L and _H are each only 1 point higher than my factory settings (67 and 130.) And they are not what your factory settings were.

My factory WB settings are not all 128, but they are fairly close. When I calibrate (Movie Mode) grayscale from the UM, I have to push red gain up to 38 in 2-point just to get enough headroom so that I can increase red to where it needs to be in 10-point. Even with that my red setting is 7 at the 10th point. My set seems to need a lot of extra red at the upper end just to get correct xy at all 10 points. I wonder if the red offset of 118, blue offset of 137, blue gain of 136 in the SM WB have anything to do with this ...

I'm tempted (and hesitant) to change everything in SM WB to 128 and see what happens. Or maybe I should put a pattern up and calibrate to 100% white in SM. Hesitant, because I get confused about the fact that this is basically Dynamic Mode/Cool and am not sure what that means wrt subsequent Movie mode WB calibration in UM of I calibrate D65 in SM.

If I remember Janos correctly, setting the movie mode to cool in the user menu will be at the calibrated D65 white point you did , if you did the calibration in the service menu, there is a specific way to do it also it skips the 2 point wb settings in the user menu and you just adjust the 10point to fine tune the gamma and the rest of the white balance. I don't want to confuse you. I understand what you mean, i had to read the way to do it in the service menu a few times over, anyone care to point this guy to the link or info i am talking about? Take it easy.
post #2578 of 3298
Without being able to edit movie mode WB settings in the SM you have basically three options which should work:

1. Leave the SM WB settings where they are. This is the cool setting in the UM.

Calibrate movie mode/warm2 using the 2pt and 10pt controls.

2. Set the SM WB settings to 128. This will change cool, standard, warm1, warm2 to "something else" but give you more "red" headroom in the user controls.

Calibrate movie mode/warm2 using the 2pt and 10pt controls.

3. Calibrate the SM WB settings to D65. This will set cool to a 2-pt D65

Calibrate movie mode/cool using the just the 10pt controls.
post #2579 of 3298
Thanks for the clarification, zoyd. For me, #1 worked just fine before my main board swap. Afterwards, #1 and #2 required very extreme adjustments via UM (which made the rest of the calibration a complete mess). Only #3 will work for my situation.

Janos' exact procedure for #3 is posted on the previous page if anyone is looking for it. Apparently I annoyed him into writing it out for me .
post #2580 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Movie R-Offset = 125
Movie B-Offset = 130
Movie R-Gain = 144
Movie B-Gain = 93

I believe that is your problem - those must be redder than the 1st board you had.
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