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Samsung D7000 & D8000 Settings/Calibration Thread - Page 97

post #2881 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Is it known what gamma the +1 gamma setting represents?


kj,

For the D7000 with default settings for the 10 point intervals, a +1 gamma setting is about equivalent to a gamma of 2.2. Each tick in the gamma control changes this by about 0.1. (I think the zero gamma setting on the D8000 is the same as the +1 on the D7000.)

Larry
post #2882 of 3298
Sorry if this is a strange request, and if it is please just tell me why. I'm looking for good starter settings for watching a movie on a 59D8000 (with the latest online firmware) with the source being the SmartHub, specifically using the app Plex (or in Netflix). Ideally I'd want those settings to be rooted in the Picture Mode "Standard" because I know we'd want different settings for "Movie Mode" which inherently looks good watching AllShare/DLNA sources, but not in Plex or Netflix. Does this make sense?

Yes, this requests stems from my other posts about a gray haze/poor blacks in fw later than ver 1015 that only seems to affects playing videos in SmartHub apps (not DLNA).
post #2883 of 3298
Ok, so it appears I have fixed the green/cyan inaccuracy issues on my pn51d7000, but here is what is odd....I did it by turning xyVCC on and recalibrating with it on. I know the xvYCC isn't even supported by most sources, including BD, but for whatever reason, when I accidently turned it on the other day, I noticed that it changed the greens and reds. So I decided to do a little experiment using my Spyder 2 meter and HCFR software. When I enabled xvYCC in Movie mode, warm2 (my calibrated mode) and ran a grayscale check, I noticed that my grayscale measurements did not change (no change in black level either), but when I took color measurements, everything was off, so I recalibrated colors using custom color space (CMS) adjustments and found that I was able to get all primary and secondary colors nearly perfect in delta xy and delta lum (and therefore very low Delta E). I am attaching my results.... The question I have is should I trust the resultst? Everything looks good, especially skin tones and vegetation looks much more realistic, but how is this possible? Also, does it mess up something that I can't measure? Feel free to give this a try and let me know what you think. CIE.jpg 148k .jpg file RGB.jpg 146k .jpg file temp.jpg 105k .jpg file gamma.jpg 145k .jpg file luminance.jpg 98k .jpg file

If this is legit, this TV is by far better than my old panasonic plasma, though I must admit, I had to go through samsung replacing two d7000s with bad video boards (one had a garbled horizontal bar and the other one had a thick black horizontal bar on one side of the screen) last fall before finally getting one that worked.
Edited by jsb4g - 7/26/12 at 5:23pm
post #2884 of 3298
Good afternoon jsb4g, could you please post your settings? I would like to try them on my PN51d7000.
post #2885 of 3298
For those that have asked, here they are. In my experience, each panel is different, so YMMV.

Movie Mode
Cell Light: 20
Contrast:95
Brightness:57
Color: 50
Tint: G51/R49
Sharpness: 0
Screen Picture Size: Screen Fit
Advanced and Picture Menus
Everything else off.
Gamma: 0
xvYCC: On

White Balance
R-Offset: 29
G-Offset: 30
B-Offset: 16
R-Gain: 8
G-Gain: 29
B-Gain: 43

10 pt White Balance (Interval: R, G, B)

1:0, 1, -4
2: -2, -2, -3
3: -2, -2, -3
4: -4, -5, -4
5: -2,-2, -6
6: -1, -1, -4
7: 1, -1, -2
8: 1, 0, -1
9: 0, 0, -2
10: 2, -1, -1

Color Space:

Red: R61, G65, B100
Green: R71, G38, B0
Blue: R0, G80, B43
Yellow: R52, G37, B87
Cyan:R88, G47, B46
Magenta: R87, G100, B90
post #2886 of 3298
jsb4g it's interesting that your 'movie' mode settings are almost exactly what mine are on my E450.
your Brightness:57 ( mine looks washed out beyond 50
Don't you think these new Sammys are very bright?
Now that it has close to 700 hrs even Dynamic mode is starting to look ok in the day time.
The heat has gone WAY down but i still don't think the panel-phosphors are 100% settled.
I do have the color at 55 and did play with the tint but put it back to 50/50.
had the G-Offset: 28 now at 25
G-Gain: 27 now at 25
post #2887 of 3298
Sony, I don't mean to hound you, but how are you making these adjustments on your TV, by eye? If you use a test disc to set color and tint, there is only one correct combination of these settings, and they don't appear to be changing over the life of the TV. There is also no real evidence I am aware of which shows a plasma will run cooler with age. Seems this idea is spreading around the internet with absolutely no reference to its source (that wiki is also from 2007, which is ancient in terms of plasma tech), but maybe you have one? Or is this just based on your own observations? All I know is my TV is just as bright and just as warm at hour 2000 as it was the day I first powered it up.

Based on relatively credible information I've read, on modern plasmas, loss of brightness due to phosphor degradation isn't something that becomes significant until you've racked up 10s of thousands of hours (manufacturers are claiming half lives of around 100,000 hours). Even with degraded phosphors, the brightness of the panel isn't the only contributor to heat, there is also the power supply which is then driving a less efficient panel (meaning you'll probably jack brighness to compensate, which may even mean you're running hotter than ever).
post #2888 of 3298
AvidHiker great question.
Long story short I left my e450 on for the first 10 days.
It's on the stand 20" high apox 3 feet from the back wall.
On day 6 I noted a slight but definite decrease in heat from the screen.
After the 10th day the heat has continued to slowly drop each week.
Yes there is a big difference from those first 5 days to now.
I have aprox 700 hrs on it and the picture has improved slightly.
I would not say the panel/phosphors are 100% settled yet
and it's reached it's 'normal' operating temp.
Could be another week or longer.
It's my POV that a stabilized conductive heat output = 100% break in.
post #2889 of 3298
No comments? I'm still enjoying the calibrated settings with xvYCC on. Again, used Spyder with HCFR software.
post #2890 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsb4g View Post

No comments? I'm still enjoying the calibrated settings with xvYCC on. Again, used Spyder with HCFR software.

Why did you choose the D7000 over the E7000?
The 2012 E6500 and up use the new 'Pro' Real Black Filter.
The 'Pro' filter is an upgrade to the glass itself and the software is upgraded also.
post #2891 of 3298
I do plan to try xvYCC mode when I next calibrate - just retweaked my greyscale recently and could see my CMS is in need of attention. It's an interesting observation for sure, and I see no reason not to use it if you're confident in the measurements. I see your red and blue gains are pretty extreme - was that normally where you needed them before trying this? With values like that, I might consider setting white point in the SM first to prevent the possibility of clipping, although I don't know how xvYCC mode would affect the process.
post #2892 of 3298
I have a question about calibrating your tv with the xvycc mode turned on. The only way I have been able to get the vxycc to not be grayed out is by watching a bluray on my ps3. I have att uverse as my provider and have not been able to get xvycc mode to be usable(not grayed out). So my calibration would only be good for watching blurays and not watching regular tv or is there a way to enable the xvycc mode on regular tv?
post #2893 of 3298
All devices in the HDMI chain must support xvYCC for it to be enabled. Since, just like deep color, there is no source material that actually makes use of it, I wouldn't expect a cable box to support it. So yes, the calibration would only be valid for your BD player. xvYCC is a full/extended range format, so maybe you could try selecting RGB or PC (full) color space on your box if available.
post #2894 of 3298
thanks avidhiker,
I was hoping there was maybe some secret menu on the att uverse box that someone might now about. The uverse box sends out the signal in rbg only. I know this because the hdmi black level control is on(not greyed out)and for xvycc to work it has to be a ycbcr signal.
post #2895 of 3298
i got my tv before the e series came out.
post #2896 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

I do plan to try xvYCC mode when I next calibrate - just retweaked my greyscale recently and could see my CMS is in need of attention. It's an interesting observation for sure, and I see no reason not to use it if you're confident in the measurements. I see your red and blue gains are pretty extreme - was that normally where you needed them before trying this? With values like that, I might consider setting white point in the SM first to prevent the possibility of clipping, although I don't know how xvYCC mode would affect the process.

Yes, the gains did not change with xvYCc on. What is going on with the gains is i set contrast at 95 which created a red push at the higher end of the scale. The disparity in gains corrects it. I went in with a specific luminance goal and acheived it with contrast 95 and gains where they are. I have no clipping.

One other point...for whatever reason, iam actually able to enable xvycc with my dish box as the source. Not sure why.
post #2897 of 3298
Interesting, usually 95 is considered max recommended for the D series but should still be ok. Before my main board was replaced, I had no clipping (aka, pinking) problems with my 59D7000 right up to contrast of 100, and I could calibrate without major changes in gains or offsets. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with those settings, but what matters is you are happy with the results, so just forget I said anything. wink.gif

My new main board did not have ADC/WB correctly set, so I was forced to do a service menu calibration. Based on the work of janos666 (he spent a lot of time tinkering in the SM), this is the best method of calibration anyway because you can ensure all WB adjustments remain within a "safe" range. I believe he claimed that in going beyond this range, while obvious signs of clipping are not visible in test patterns, you will end up with other artifacts beause the video processor can't operate optimally. Anyway, I was never able to conclusively confirm this myself, but I do think my picture quality is the best it's ever been now.

I just have to thank god for this forum, because the Samsung technician had absolutely no clue what he had done and flat out denied the possiblilty of any such issue arising from a main board swap.
post #2898 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Interesting, usually 95 is considered max recommended for the D series but should still be ok. Before my main board was replaced, I had no clipping (aka, pinking) problems with my 59D7000 right up to contrast of 100, and I could calibrate without major changes in gains or offsets. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with those settings, but what matters is you are happy with the results, so just forget I said anything. wink.gif
My new main board did not have ADC/WB correctly set, so I was forced to do a service menu calibration. Based on the work of janos666 (he spent a lot of time tinkering in the SM), this is the best method of calibration anyway because you can ensure all WB adjustments remain within a "safe" range. I believe he claimed that in going beyond this range, while obvious signs of clipping are not visible in test patterns, you will end up with other artifacts beause the video processor can't operate optimally. Anyway, I was never able to conclusively confirm this myself, but I do think my picture quality is the best it's ever been now.
I just have to thank god for this forum, because the Samsung technician had absolutely no clue what he had done and flat out denied the possiblilty of any such issue arising from a main board swap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Interesting, usually 95 is considered max recommended for the D series but should still be ok. Before my main board was replaced, I had no clipping (aka, pinking) problems with my 59D7000 right up to contrast of 100, and I could calibrate without major changes in gains or offsets. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with those settings, but what matters is you are happy with the results, so just forget I said anything. wink.gif
My new main board did not have ADC/WB correctly set, so I was forced to do a service menu calibration. Based on the work of janos666 (he spent a lot of time tinkering in the SM), this is the best method of calibration anyway because you can ensure all WB adjustments remain within a "safe" range. I believe he claimed that in going beyond this range, while obvious signs of clipping are not visible in test patterns, you will end up with other artifacts beause the video processor can't operate optimally. Anyway, I was never able to conclusively confirm this myself, but I do think my picture quality is the best it's ever been now.
I just have to thank god for this forum, because the Samsung technician had absolutely no clue what he had done and flat out denied the possiblilty of any such issue arising from a main board swap.



Yeah, i read that too, but 95with gain/offset defaults produces obvious pink in the whiteeven on the eyeball pattern on avchd.but i have 51d7000, not 59.regardless of what i think, i think my meteris more trustworthy than my eye. I could lower the contrast to 92 and bring the gains back closer together, but that would require me to recalibrate all grayscale settings. Given the results i posted, which are the besr i have seen posted for this model, i dont think messing with it further is worth it. i got video of a place nearby and i can now say affirmatively that green is nearly perfect, and comsiderably more realistic than previously with xvycc off. I cant explain it other than to say that it must change color in a way other than simply permitting xvycc color space which none of the content supports.


Yeah, i saw that too, but e
post #2899 of 3298
Here is the latest -- and probably the last -- version of the methodology for using HCFR and the i1 LT (D2) or i1 Pro meters to calibrate the D7000 and D8000 models. Other links to this document have been modified to point here.
HCFR & Dx000 & i1 calibration 08112012.pdf 346k .pdf file



Larry
Edited by LarryInRI - 8/12/12 at 3:16pm
post #2900 of 3298
Hello, is it possible to change red&blue cut and red&blue gain in service menu for movie mode using samsung RUcommunicator?
post #2901 of 3298
The gains and offsets specific to movie mode can be displayed with the remote emulator, but cannot be changed. You need a serial connection to access the TDM where those values can be edited.
post #2902 of 3298
Wow, I have been working through my first calibration using a rented i1Pro with Calman4 on my 16 month-old PN59D7000. Even after spending many hours on this, I still feel I am not getting it right. I say this because the gray bar scale shows hints of cyan (in the mid range) and pink (at the white end). The subjective color on BR movies seems okay, though. However, I am tempted to restart this though.

Could I ask for some feedback on my results?

One consideration I have is that the initial choice of best gamma as a starting point seems to be -3, a seemingly extreme value. I did start from factory defaults and all extra processing options turned off and with recommended starting values of Cell=20 and Contrast no more than 95. I did not think to remeasure Gamma after the whole process. (1 Gamma -3 start.jpg)

I moved on to setting the White Balance (Offsets then Gains, using 30% and 80% grays) and then the 10 point gray scale. Should the higher Gamma Point bars for the 100 bins be corrected? (2 Gray scale.jpg)

Then, I adjusted the Color Gamut. I have to shift the Custom Color settings quite a bit to get the Red and Green to closer to optimum. (3 Color gamut.jpg)

How do these look? Should I restart with a more "typical" Gamma level of -1 or 0, even if they do not show the closest match to the flattened ideal curve?

Thanks.




Edited by B0) - 8/21/12 at 9:34am
post #2903 of 3298
I restarted and achieved a better end point but I still have the same issue with the gamma setting "wanting" to be a large negative number. I left it at a value of -1 this time.

I got a much better feel for the color adjustments and got all points very close to target.

Are the gamma, white balance and color gamut steps supposed to iterate several times to get a flat gamma curve?

Thanks.
post #2904 of 3298
Just a tip for anyone suffering line bleeding like this:




I was able to completely remove it from my 51D450 by increasing Vs a little bit (about 1/8th turn clockwise). I now have no line bleeding whatsoever. White backgrounds are as good as LCD smile.gif

Also I get much better skin tones if I select xvYcc, but then the gamut is of course wrong. Weird.
post #2905 of 3298
Howdy everyone. I just updated Calman to 4.6 and updated the firmware on my 59D7000 and figured I would do a calibration tweak using cell light 20, as suggested here. I have the Display3.

Anyway, my grey scale settings are acting a bit strange. I have not had this issue before. I go and do the offset/gain initial settings with the AVS disk and 75% slides. The problem is that i can't get IRE 90 Red to come down far enough with the gain set to 0. Red is just off the charts at that brighter range. 80 is also funky. Once I start the 10 point white balance adjustments, I can get a somewhat uniform 6500 reading from 10 until about 80. That's where I run into trouble. I have a feeeling it is related to the cell light increase and resulting contrast change.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to why Red is all out of whack at that level?

I have my set with these settings as I begin to calibrate:

Movie Mode
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 91
Brightness:59
Color: 51
Tint: G51/R49
Sharpness: 10
Screen Picture Size: Screen Fit
Advanced and Picture Menus
Everything else off.
Gamma: 0
Temp: Warm2

White Balance (started at all 25 but these are where I got to with my baseline greyscale setting at IRE 30 and 90)
R-Offset: 34
G-Offset: 30
B-Offset: 29
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 16
B-Gain: 10

10 pt White Balance (Interval: R, G, B)

zeroed out as I default it to redo greyscale

I actually had to tick down my gamma setting, as well, as the red in IRE 80+ was way low.
Edited by Rob67 - 8/26/12 at 8:54am
post #2906 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob67 View Post

Howdy everyone. I just updated Calman to 4.6 and updated the firmware on my 59D7000 and figured I would do a calibration tweak. I have the Display3.
Anyway, my grey scale settings are acting a bit strange. I have not had this issue before. I go and do the offset/gain initial settings with the AVS disk and 75% slides. The problem is that i can't get IRE 90 Red to come down far enough with the gain set to 0. Red is just off the charts at that brighter range. 80 is also funky. I can get a somewhat uniform 6500 reading from 10 until about 80. That's where I run into trouble. Does anyone have any suggestions as to why Red is all out of whack at that level?
I have my set with these settings as I begin to calibrate:
Movie Mode
Cell Light: 20
Contrast:94
Brightness:59
Color: 51
Tint: G51/R49
Sharpness: 10
Screen Picture Size: Screen Fit
Advanced and Picture Menus
Everything else off.
Gamma: 0
Temp: Warm2
White Balance (started at all 25 but these are where I got to with my baseline greyscale setting at IRE 30 and 90)
R-Offset: 34
G-Offset: 30
B-Offset: 29
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 16
B-Gain: 10
10 pt White Balance (Interval: R, G, B)
zeroed out as I default it to redo greyscale

You should only be worrying about setting your 30/80 IRE so that RGB are close to 100% with gain and cuts, then when this is done, flatten your grayscale using 10pt adjustment for each remaining 10IRE intervals.
post #2907 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by B0) View Post

I restarted and achieved a better end point but I still have the same issue with the gamma setting "wanting" to be a large negative number. I left it at a value of -1 this time.
I got a much better feel for the color adjustments and got all points very close to target.
Are the gamma, white balance and color gamut steps supposed to iterate several times to get a flat gamma curve?
Thanks.

Can you post your resulting gamma graph with individual colour breakouts?
post #2908 of 3298
FWIW I managed to achieve this with Calman 4 after several attempts and frustration might i add! Used a profiled i1D3 from an i1Pro. Calman 4 Results.png 207k .png file
post #2909 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndaa75 View Post

You should only be worrying about setting your 30/80 IRE so that RGB are close to 100% with gain and cuts, then when this is done, flatten your grayscale using 10pt adjustment for each remaining 10IRE intervals.

Yes, that is what I am doing (except I used 90 IRE based off a suggestion I read from Larry). The issue is I can't even get 80 IRE flat as the red is coming in way too much at 80 IRE and above.

Even when I attempt to flatten it with the 10 point, the results are skewed at those higher levels.
post #2910 of 3298
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsb4g View Post

Yeah, i read that too, but 95with gain/offset defaults produces obvious pink in the whiteeven on the eyeball pattern on avchd.but i have 51d7000, not 59.regardless of what i think, i think my meteris more trustworthy than my eye. I could lower the contrast to 92 and bring the gains back closer together, but that would require me to recalibrate all grayscale settings. Given the results i posted, which are the besr i have seen posted for this model, i dont think messing with it further is worth it. i got video of a place nearby and i can now say affirmatively that green is nearly perfect, and comsiderably more realistic than previously with xvycc off. I cant explain it other than to say that it must change color in a way other than simply permitting xvycc color space which none of the content supports.
Yeah, i saw that too, but e

Interesting...my recent calibration tweak was attempted to change cell light to 20 and redo greyscale...I noticed the same "pink" push you mentioned.

Are you saying you use xvycc mode for all your devices (TV, BD, etc.)?? I have a PS3 and DirecTV and I am using the same calibration settings on for each through the same input.
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