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Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 45

post #1321 of 2960
3/16/12 at 8:45am
Thats why I want to see what voltage is coming out of the amp.
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post #1322 of 2960
3/16/12 at 8:52am
I'm getting a 100A sub panel installed in my equipment closet. This will make adding circuits for future equipment upgrades easier. I plan on ordering an FP14000. Would it be better to get the 240V or 120V version and what amperage will I need for the one I choose? My electrician needs to know what types of receptacles and breakers to install for me.
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post #1323 of 2960
3/16/12 at 8:58am
Im still wondering if there might be a wiring snafu somehow. Looks like his amp is in bridged mode. If the drivers are run in parallel the amp would see a 2.2 ohm mono load.
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post #1324 of 2960
3/16/12 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Im still wondering if there might be a wiring snafu somehow. Looks like his amp is in bridged mode. If the drivers are run in parallel the amp would see a 2.2 ohm mono load.

He has them running in stereo, everything looks good except why 195 V? You can run 195V on say a 115-120 V circuit? I just selected the one that was close to 120 V. Maybe I am doing something wrong? I don't clip though. These woofers are very power hungry and maybe he just needs to run one bridged amp per sub? It will go from 4400 watts to 14000 watts. So now he goes from clipping to the ability of melting the coils?
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post #1325 of 2960
3/16/12 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Why use 195V? I picked what ever was closest to my outlets, do you have 220 V's or something? I have 120 V and picked whatever was closest to that. Mine are also on soft clip but never changed it or clipped to matter.

I havent seen anyone else do it that way, everyone else seemed to have them set the same way I am, but that doesnt mean it is the right now. I know Not chimed in on a similar layout of mine and said it was right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Beast when you say the amp is clipping at +5 and -10 master what material are you using? Music? What kind? Those drivers wont ever sound stressed with most music you will melt the coils first same as an LMS. You might get some excursion out of dubstep or whatever.

Have you tried something like XMen 1st class or wotw? If you are running one of those and not getting much excursion then something is wrong. Try couple of demo scenes.

What type of ac line do you have the amp plugged inti Maybe its a 120v 15A that is sagging really bad under load which would limit the power. Just an idea.

Music that I saw clipping on was some rap. specifically Young Jeezy - put on. Ive seen the level get up there some with dubstep. that is really what I listen to most of the time right now, im giving metal a break, but listening to that, it never comes close to clipping.

Ive watched FOTP and WOTW and with dyn eq off, MV at -10 and the subs flat, I am ok, but the bass just isnt there when I do this. To get boost the subs 5db's im back to clipping, the subs definitely move, but still not like I was anticipating.

I do have the 120v 15a plug on it as this is the way Johnson sent it to me and after Husker's issues with the 220 version, I wanted to go with the sure-fire option for it to work out of the box, then adjust accordingly once I got it and measured it. Im able to pop in a 220plug if needed, and then put a new cord on the amp. Is that part hard to do or something I could do myself? is there anything else in the amp that needs to be adjusted to do this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Vai_rules View Post

Thats why I want to see what voltage is coming out of the amp.

Im working on that, I havent really messed around in the theater this week, too much BBall and nice weather

MK is right above, I DO have it in stereo, and the sub wiring is correct. + of one VC to - of other VC and the other two left going to once channel of the FP. Ive double checked that
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post #1326 of 2960
3/16/12 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I havent seen anyone else do it that way, everyone else seemed to have them set the same way I am, but that doesnt mean it is the right now. I know Not chimed in on a similar layout of mine and said it was right.



Music that I saw clipping on was some rap. specifically Young Jeezy - put on. Ive seen the level get up there some with dubstep. that is really what I listen to most of the time right now, im giving metal a break, but listening to that, it never comes close to clipping.

Ive watched FOTP and WOTW and with dyn eq off, MV at -10 and the subs flat, I am ok, but the bass just isnt there when I do this. To get boost the subs 5db's im back to clipping, the subs definitely move, but still not like I was anticipating.

I do have the 120v 15a plug on it as this is the way Johnson sent it to me and after Husker's issues with the 220 version, I wanted to go with the sure-fire option for it to work out of the box, then adjust accordingly once I got it and measured it. Im able to pop in a 220plug if needed, and then put a new cord on the amp. Is that part hard to do or something I could do myself? is there anything else in the amp that needs to be adjusted to do this?



Im working on that, I havent really messed around in the theater this week, too much BBall and nice weather

MK is right above, I DO have it in stereo, and the sub wiring is correct. + of one VC to - of other VC and the other two left going to once channel of the FP. Ive double checked that

I am thinking you just need more power so try to bridge the amp on one sub and see what happens. Be very careful as you can melt the coils or something with that much power. If that is the case you need more amps or even better, more subs to run the way they are. Ricci should know, how much power can these drivers take. From his responses it seems 4400 watts should be doing some more than what is going on so maybe something is wrong with the amp?
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post #1327 of 2960
3/16/12 at 10:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am thinking you just need more power so try to bridge the amp on one sub and see what happens. Be very careful as you can melt the coils or something with that much power. If that is the case you need more amps or even better, more subs to run the way they are. Ricci should know, how much power can these drivers take. From his responses it seems 4400 watts should be doing some more than what is going on so maybe something is wrong with the amp?

One channel should bottom out a UXL 18 with ease. He has other issues here.

Perhaps there's a problem with the VCL, do as Johnson said and try in soft mode.
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post #1328 of 2960
3/16/12 at 10:10am
What is your AVR level at? not your main volume but the gain for that channel? Do you have Audyssey?
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post #1329 of 2960
3/16/12 at 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post


One channel should bottom out a UXL 18 with ease. He has other issues here.

Perhaps there's a problem with the VCL, do as Johnson said and try in soft mode.

He had the RE XXX I thought?
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post #1330 of 2960
3/16/12 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

One channel should bottom out a UXL 18 with ease. He has other issues here.

Perhaps there's a problem with the VCL, do as Johnson said and try in soft mode.

Its dual xxx18's

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

What is your AVR level at? not your main volume but the gain for that channel? Do you have Audyssey?

sub trim at 0, and main volume I usually see clipping at -10

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

He had the RE XXX I thought?

yep yep
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post #1331 of 2960
3/16/12 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Why use 195V? I picked what ever was closest to my outlets, do you have 220 V's or something? I have 120 V and picked whatever was closest to that. Mine are also on soft clip but never changed it or clipped to matter.

Guys keep in mind that the 195V is for the output limiter. It has nothing at all to do with the input voltage but instead is the limit in voltage that each channel will output. Since beast set his to 195V it should be setting the limiter to its highest setting which should allow the max output from the amp.

MK, you may even gain some output by changing your limiter to 195.
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post #1332 of 2960
3/16/12 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

He had the RE XXX I thought?

He does...But that doesn't change anything...I have experience with a lot of big nasty amps and use amps with the same amount of power as this on my 3x's and they can make the cones go bananas to the point that I'm worried something might break on the drivers. At about the time my amps clip the drivers are soft bottoming. Huge excursions not "some". Beast says that there is "some" excursion but then the amp clips. That just does not seem right. He should be starting to worry about breaking them by the time the amp starts clipping like Notnyt is saying.

Beast the actual cord on the amp doesn't matter. What sort of ac line and breaker is it plugged into 15A, 20A? Straight into the wall correct? Is there other equipment on it? Still even on a bad 120V line the amp should still be able to burst a ton of power in short spurts... I don't know it is difficult troubleshooting over the internet.

How are the drivers wired to the amp? Can you take a picture at the amp and one at the cabinets? Have you tried it with the amp and subs hooked up in plain old stereo config, one per channel? For some reason I keep coming back to thinking that there has to be something about using bridged mode and the wiring.

EDIT: One other idea...Are you EQing the subs Audyssey or otherwise? Maybe there is a certain band with a lot of boost that is sucking up all of the power from the amp and making it clip when there is content in that range. Just another shot in the dark.
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post #1333 of 2960
3/16/12 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post


After more experimentation looks like it was more J River than the AVR

Didn't even think about jriver
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post #1334 of 2960
3/16/12 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

He does...But that doesn't change anything...I have experience with a lot of big nasty amps and use amps with the same amount of power as this on my 3x's and they can make the cones go bananas to the point that I'm worried something might break on the drivers. At about the time my amps clip the drivers are soft bottoming. Huge excursions not "some". Beast says that there is "some" excursion but then the amp clips. That just does not seem right. He should be starting to worry about breaking them by the time the amp starts clipping like Notnyt is saying.

Beast the actual cord on the amp doesn't matter. What sort of ac line and breaker is it plugged into 15A, 20A? Straight into the wall correct? Is there other equipment on it? Still even on a bad 120V line the amp should still be able to burst a ton of power in short spurts... I don't know it is difficult troubleshooting over the internet.

plugged into a 20a type plug, but its on a 30a breaker with a 10ga romax so I could go to 30a plug should I want to. It is direct into the wall.

How are the drivers wired to the amp? Can you take a picture at the amp and one at the cabinets? Have you tried it with the amp and subs hooked up in plain old stereo config, one per channel? For some reason I keep coming back to thinking that there has to be something about using bridged mode and the wiring.

Not running bridged, always have been in good ole stereo mode

EDIT: One other idea...Are you EQing the subs Audyssey or otherwise? Maybe there is a certain band with a lot of boost that is sucking up all of the power from the amp and making it clip when there is content in that range. Just another shot in the dark.


Ive thought of this but after looking at my before and after results with audyssey, it doesnt seem that is the case either, at least in the bass spectrum.

In bold above
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post #1335 of 2960
3/16/12 at 11:23am
Maybe you just got a lemon like me.
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post #1336 of 2960
3/16/12 at 11:29am
Just curious, when these amps clip BOTH the VPL and the CPL lights turn on correct??
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post #1337 of 2960
3/16/12 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Maybe you just got a lemon like me.

I dont really think so, because it is definitely working, and I can get ref level bass just fine, it just seems the subs dont move like I anticipated, and i get to clipping too easily. another thing too, when the lights on the front panel light up, does the light of one spill into the others on yalls amps? like when the first light on the amp lights up for me, it doesnt just light that one little square, it spills over to the others on either side of it. Only reason I could tell clipping was happening was obviously that the clip light is red while the others are green...
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post #1338 of 2960
3/16/12 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I dont really think so, because it is definitely working, and I can get ref level bass just fine, it just seems the subs dont move like I anticipated, and i get to clipping too easily. another thing too, when the lights on the front panel light up, does the light of one spill into the others on yalls amps? like when the first light on the amp lights up for me, it doesnt just light that one little square, it spills over to the others on either side of it. Only reason I could tell clipping was happening was obviously that the clip light is red while the others are green...

The lights on mine do not spill as you described, they function as you would expect....when the hard beats hit, they move accordingly, as well as when you adjust gains....
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post #1339 of 2960
3/16/12 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

The lights on mine do not spill as you described, they function as you would expect....when the hard beats hit, they move accordingly, as well as when you adjust gains....

so lets just say you are running the amp just hard enough to light the first light on the left, the next light in still stays perfectly dark? it doesnt have any of the green spill from the first light filling it in just not as bright as the first light?
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post #1340 of 2960
3/16/12 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

so lets just say you are running the amp just hard enough to light the first light on the left, the next light in still stays perfectly dark? it doesnt have any of the green spill from the first light filling it in just not as bright as the first light?

On my amp the lights behave as you descibe them beast.
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post #1341 of 2960
3/16/12 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

On my amp the lights behave as you descibe them beast.

There are obvious differences in the brightness of the indicator lights, but it functions similar to what you are describing.

You know, kind of like if you are watching winamp or whatever and the bars float up and down but don't stay and hit on specific lines...

Sounds like we all have the indicator lights as they are intended...
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post #1342 of 2960
3/16/12 at 12:59pm
agreed then. yea like the old winamp is kinda what I was describing.
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post #1343 of 2960
3/17/12 at 12:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I do have the 120v 15a plug on it as this is the way Johnson sent it to me and after Husker's issues with the 220 version, I wanted to go with the sure-fire option for it to work out of the box, then adjust accordingly once I got it and measured it. Im able to pop in a 220plug if needed, and then put a new cord on the amp. Is that part hard to do or something I could do myself? is there anything else in the amp that needs to be adjusted to do this?

What issues have there been with the 220v units? I know RDKing has 2 of them and didnt report anything but thats all I've managed to weed out of this huge thread.
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post #1344 of 2960
3/17/12 at 7:42pm
Only one right now. Will have another very soon No problems at this point. As far as amperage goes, a 15/20 amp standard plug will have no problem supplying the power for a 220v amp. It is incorrect though. If a standard 110v receptical is wired for 220v a 110v appliance still could be plugged into it, which would be bad. Is the amp in question a 220v version?
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post #1345 of 2960
3/17/12 at 9:12pm
RD

What type of plug comes on the 220v from sanway? Need to have electrician finish my 3 outlets next time he is here.
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post #1346 of 2960
3/19/12 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDKing2 View Post

Only one right now. Will have another very soon No problems at this point. As far as amperage goes, a 15/20 amp standard plug will have no problem supplying the power for a 220v amp. It is incorrect though. If a standard 110v receptical is wired for 220v a 110v appliance still could be plugged into it, which would be bad. Is the amp in question a 220v version?

nope it is a 110 version right now, just standard ole plug, What I was wanting to know is, is it just as simple to put a 220v plug type on it and remove the 110v plug version or is there other stuff inside that I would need to do to make it 220v compatible? all the stuff on my wall will already be capable to 220v, I would just have to switch out the breaker.
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post #1347 of 2960
3/19/12 at 8:48am
typically there are fuses to change internally, and a dip switch inside as well when things can be converted over.
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post #1348 of 2960
3/19/12 at 8:54am
Your settings on your amp are correct for your use...

Stick with the voltage that your amp uses just make sure that its at least 30amp if you plan on running it full out.

Like someone else mentioned the actual plug is more for safety reasons that anything else. And noyts amps use a lower gauge that 10a and he doesnt seem to be having any problems so cant say necessarily that there is an issue there..

Next I would look into making sure you are wiring the speakers correctly. Input signal, and finally any leaks in whatever box the speakers are loaded into..
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post #1349 of 2960
3/19/12 at 9:17am
beast, stay at 110V. Typically an amp is built for a specific voltage. For 110V one of the legs is a common and the other is the line voltage(110V). For 220V in the US each of the legs is line voltage(110V X 2=220V). This is in contrast with the majority of the world where the 240V is one common and one 240V leg.

If you feed our 220V to your amp you will probably short the one leg to ground and trip the breaker in your panel.
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post #1350 of 2960
3/19/12 at 9:23am
Audiovideoholic - the plug that Sanway shipped me on the 220v FP14K was a European 220V plug - Italian if I remember right. I chopped that off and replaced it with a North American 220V/20 amp plug. See NEMA-6-20P here : http://parkwaymarina.com/nemachart.htm

Depending on how hungry you think the FP14K is, I guess you could go with higher amperage ? Not sure what the limits are of that. Mine has been working on the 240V (measured 246V), 20 amp dedicated circuit quite well.
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