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Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 56

post #1651 of 3108
8/3/12 at 5:28pm
be careful there buddy. more power will make your drivers sound better, but can also kill them.

as for how much they can take, that depends on how they are rated. unfortunately the power specs for consumer subs are nowhere near as clearly spec'd as pro audio gear.
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post #1652 of 3108
8/3/12 at 5:39pm
I'm glad you're happy with your purchase fat shaft:). The only thing I can attribute to the deeper tighter response is the improved slew rate and dampening that the labs have in comparison to the behringers. As for over powering your speakers, I would be careful to listen for them bottoming out, as other have said, you don't want to cook the coils .. And it's a speaking you need, not xlr... Don't blow out your hearing my friend smile.gif. My real labs showed up today, I had to make a female xlr to male to male to male to male , just to get signal to all fiour channels.... It's something the clones have up on the real deal, better signal routing. Also the real lab fans are as loud as the clones that I received 52 db about 4-6 inches in front of the amp, so not difference there I did request the fan mod from sanway). Also the real labs have a 12 ga power cord, while the clone has 10( which is what is required for 30 amp connection in Canada). I am a bit disappointed spending 4 times the money as he clone, but the 6 year warranty should make up for that at some point. Happy listening
Sp
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post #1653 of 3108
8/3/12 at 6:25pm
More power won't make your subs sound any better unless you were pushing your old amps to the brink. The slew rate may make a difference I guess but i dunno lol. I've done the ep4000 to the clone and the only difference in sound is the clones will take the 10dB boost at 15 hz all day long. at normal listening levels there isn't an ounce of difference. I've had everything from rmx 5050, marathon 5050, ep 2500-4000, 14k clones, face audio, and the list goes on. The only reason I can see for them sounding better is you may have been pushing the ep close to it's limits.
Also fatshaft, you are not sending your subs full power at all times, they are not getting the full brunt of the amp. That being said, you can put way more power to any subs as long as it can thermally take it and you aren't over driving it. I've run a set of paradigm titans on 1000 watt monoblocks for years lol
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post #1654 of 3108
8/3/12 at 6:28pm
OK then please help a rookie understand...bottoming out???

The most bass intensive demo I have is the THX demo where the mushroom hits.
I could not put my volume at -20 on my HK 7550HD with the EP4000.
It would look like the subs wanted to come out! (Visually)
Sound-wise it would sound awful
Is that what bottoming out is?

Now with the 10000Q the same THX demo and the mushroom part, I can go to -15 on the HK and no problem.
The subs move like crazy still but within it's range.
I wish one of you guys can be here to see and hear it.

Today, I played GOLF with some buddies and left the music play from 9:30am to 16:00 at -12 volume with bass heavy music...I wanted to see when I got home if:
1. The amp Fried
2. The subs Fried
3. The House collapsed
4. My neighbors still talked to me

Well...nothing...nothing...touched the amp and it barely felt warm.
Subs are sounding great still.

I wanted to do a torture test as my family is on vacation and nobody's home.
I'm extremely impressed with this amp!

Heywood, you're a brave man to put down 4 large when you can get 4 of these and some change back for the same coin. that's scary but like we discussed yesterday, I understand.

Good luck and thanks again for everything and thanks for ridding of this amp.
You made me very happy! I've been toying the idea of getting one of these and you being so close to me just was the last straw for me to pull the trigger...boy what a great decision from my part but thanks to you for having it!

Regards,
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post #1655 of 3108
8/3/12 at 6:33pm
N8DOGG,

thanks for your explanation...
My EP4000 was connected in bridge mode to all 4x MFW-15's @ 4 ohms.
The dial was @ 12 oclock on the EP4000.
I could sometimes go to 1 oclock but no more.

I have the 10000Q set at 3oclock without any problems.

Could the type of subs make a difference?
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post #1656 of 3108
8/3/12 at 6:47pm
anyone in the us want to trade their fp1000q for my fp14000?

just throwing it out there before i order myself a fp1000q from sanway.
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post #1657 of 3108
8/3/12 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

OK then please help a rookie understand...bottoming out???
The most bass intensive demo I have is the THX demo where the mushroom hits.
I could not put my volume at -20 on my HK 7550HD with the EP4000.
It would look like the subs wanted to come out! (Visually)
Sound-wise it would sound awful
Is that what bottoming out is?
Now with the 10000Q the same THX demo and the mushroom part, I can go to -15 on the HK and no problem.
The subs move like crazy still but within it's range.
I wish one of you guys can be here to see and hear it.
Today, I played GOLF with some buddies and left the music play from 9:30am to 16:00 at -12 volume with bass heavy music...I wanted to see when I got home if:
1. The amp Fried
2. The subs Fried
3. The House collapsed
4. My neighbors still talked to me
Well...nothing...nothing...touched the amp and it barely felt warm.
Subs are sounding great still.
I wanted to do a torture test as my family is on vacation and nobody's home.
I'm extremely impressed with this amp!
Heywood, you're a brave man to put down 4 large when you can get 4 of these and some change back for the same coin. that's scary but like we discussed yesterday, I understand.
Good luck and thanks again for everything and thanks for ridding of this amp.
You made me very happy! I've been toying the idea of getting one of these and you being so close to me just was the last straw for me to pull the trigger...boy what a great decision from my part but thanks to you for having it!
Regards,

It's just called headroom my friend! Now you know first hand whats it's like to have headroom to spare. It's a wonderful thing isn't it? From your description, your poor ep was running on empty and starting to clip and distort. Your Dial on the ep doesn't mean much as with a max signal, you could still clip the amp at 8 oclock as long as it is strong enough.

O and BTW Heywoods extra clone is now mine!! I NEEDED IT!! lol
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post #1658 of 3108
8/3/12 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

It's just called headroom my friend! Now you know first hand whats it's like to have headroom to spare. It's a wonderful thing isn't it? From your description, your poor ep was running on empty and starting to clip and distort. Your Dial on the ep doesn't mean much as with a max signal, you could still clip the amp at 8 oclock as long as it is strong enough.
O and BTW Heywoods extra clone is now mine!! I NEEDED IT!! lol

N8DOGG,

Would it be suicide to connect my subs parallel to have a 2ohm load?
Should I be afraid to try that?

Thanks for your help btw.
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post #1659 of 3108
8/3/12 at 8:17pm
"It's just called headroom my friend! Now you know first hand whats it's like to have headroom to spare. It's a wonderful thing isn't it? From your description, your poor ep was running on empty and starting to clip and distort. Your Dial on the ep doesn't mean much as with a max signal, you could still clip the amp at 8 oclock as long as it is strong enough."

+1 having a system capable of putting 120db+ on you at the listening position doesn't mean that you are going to run it that loud. it simply means that when you call upon the system, even if just for a moment, it will be there.

car guys, or auto afficionados, understand this concept. 99% of the time, the foot is not to the floor, but that 1% really makes the difference. modern bentleys have 500-600 horsepower+, not because the driver will be "flooring it" all time, but having that "headroom" allows the driver to enjoy car in a way that a lesser motor wouldn't allow for.
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post #1660 of 3108
8/4/12 at 3:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

N8DOGG,
Would it be suicide to connect my subs parallel to have a 2ohm load?
Should I be afraid to try that?
Thanks for your help btw.

Suicide indeed...

Test have been done and the general consensus is to not go any lower than a 2.8ohm load. From wha I understand these amps do not go into "protect" mode. Them simply die and will have to be repaired.
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post #1661 of 3108
8/4/12 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Suicide indeed...
Test have been done and the general consensus is to not go any lower than a 2.8ohm load. From what I understand these amps do not go into "protect" mode. Them simply die and will have to be repaired.

Wow popalock, man thanks for the heads-up on the 2ohm rating "don't"
That is good to know.

So I gather that nobody's connected 2x 4ohm subs in parallel? Man that sucks!
Is everyone with these clones going 4ohms and 8ohms only?
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post #1662 of 3108
8/4/12 at 8:05am
I have the same amp in 220v and I am using it in 4 ohm stereo. Only using two channels so far...
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post #1663 of 3108
8/4/12 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Wow popalock, man thanks for the heads-up on the 2ohm rating "don't"
That is good to know.
So I gather that nobody's connected 2x 4ohm subs in parallel? Man that sucks!
Is everyone with these clones going 4ohms and 8ohms only?

Wow, you bought the amp before you read the thread , lol smart .
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post #1664 of 3108
8/4/12 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezmond View Post

Wow, you bought the amp before you read the thread , lol smart .

Dezmond...feel better now?
To think some people take the time to write stuff like this!
Hope it made you feel better calling me stupid!

Ya I never read any threads despite being a member here since 2001.

Everyone, please acknowledge Dezmond's post so he can feel better...
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post #1665 of 3108
8/4/12 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezmond View Post

Wow, you bought the amp before you read the thread , lol smart .

It's hard to read through entire thread sometimes. I know I'm guilty of taking shortcuts sometimes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Dezmond...feel better now?
To think some people take the time to write stuff like this!
Hope it made you feel better calling me stupid!
Ya I never read any threads despite being a member here since 2001.
Everyone, please acknowledge Dezmond's post so he can feel better...

Ahh, don't sweat it bro... I think if you would have searched like "Clone Stable at 2 ohms" on google or here in AVS and you might have found your answer. Irregardless, we're glad you asked vs. frying your gear.
Edited by popalock - 8/4/12 at 7:14pm
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post #1666 of 3108
8/4/12 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Irregardless

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #1667 of 3108
8/5/12 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Oh...
Wanted to share a little video with you guys of the Clone pushing my car sub. Man, I can't wait for the Ultra's. Just a few short weeks!
In the mean time, check out this W6 MOVE. I personally had no idea the W6 was this capable. =)

Yes the video is shot with my camera phone and yes it sounds like crap (as to all other excursion type videos), but the W6 was handling all of that power with surprising grace.
Even though I titled the video "max excursion" I didn't once hear it bottom out.
BTW, the "hummmm" you hear in the video is the noise I am going to try to isolate and address when I get home tonight. Thanks again for all of your suggestions!



How much louder would this be with a FP10000Q?
The 21's are starving from a single EP4K. I'm hoping that I could put those two on that and the SDX-15's on the other half of it. How much better would it be?
That would free up my iTech 8k to put another LMS-18 on the other channel. biggrin.gif
I measured two EP4K's on a single 15 amp breaker, it was idling at 120watts with no signal and 700watts continuous while driving the quad Daytons to xmax. I'd use the free'd EP4K for that task.

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post #1668 of 3108
8/6/12 at 3:24am
Gentlemen...

Any import-export specialist following this thread?

Say, in theory, I wanted to purchase a pallet of the FP14K Clones. Let's say 50 pieces to fill up a pallet. Would the logistics behind such a purchase raise any red-flags with customs? Obvsiously purchasing a single amp or maybe even a few amps seem to slip through without a problem. But, does anyone know if a larger purchase would cause any issues?

Is there like a threshold of tollerance with importing goods/products from China before they start to be inspected? I'm trying to read up on the subject because the last thing I want to do is drop some serious cash only for a pallet of product to be held up at port XXX or worse yet, big brother come knocking on my door asking me what the hell I was thinking.

Please PM me if you have any details.
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post #1669 of 3108
8/6/12 at 5:37am
I'm in the import / export business. I do not think you would have any problems. 90% of the items sold in this country are from China. 1000s of containers a week are imported from China. This is going to be consolidated with other freight to fill a container and then shipped on a vessel with a ton of other containers to be unloaded at one of our ports.

Are there labels or tags on these amps that falsely state that they are made by Lab Grupen? Or are they just a copy of the amp and are called something else? (Like Behringer does)
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post #1670 of 3108
8/6/12 at 6:01am
They come with little labels that say Lab Gruppen, but they are not attached to the amplifier. Perhaps for that reason....
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post #1671 of 3108
8/6/12 at 6:34am
I bet they are actually made by Lab Gruppen. I do not know if they have a factory in China but they could be over runs. They do it with a ton of products. The factory is supposed to make 5000 pieces but they actually make 5500 pieces and the guy at the top sells the extra 500 pieces on the black market.

It is a grey area with the labels. My understanding is it is not actually illegal until the tags are attached. I am not a lawyer and do not know all the ins and outs. Do not take what I write as fact. Best to do your own due diligence.
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post #1672 of 3108
8/6/12 at 6:52am
Im pretty sure the real labs are made in europe. The sanway amps ship out of hong kong even though johnson is in china. The Gisen amps have their own factory according to them. I have had mine apart several times and the components are sourced from all over. The large capa itors actually have sanway printed on them.
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post #1673 of 3108
8/6/12 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Grits View Post

I bet they are actually made by Lab Gruppen.

Nah... The clones seem to pale in comparison to the build quality and functionality of the OEM LG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Grits View Post

I do not know if they have a factory in China but they could be over runs. They do it with a ton of products. The factory is supposed to make 5000 pieces but they actually make 5500 pieces and the guy at the top sells the extra 500 pieces on the black market.

Sneaky bastards. Is nothing sacred in China!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Grits View Post

It is a grey area with the labels. My understanding is it is not actually illegal until the tags are attached. I am not a lawyer and do not know all the ins and outs. Do not take what I write as fact. Best to do your own due diligence.

Interesting concept. Say the manufactures of the original LG FP14000 were willing to ship you the product at their cost + $X fee. Would it be the boxing with the Brand Name that got you in trouble? Hummm..
I'd never do any of this... It's just interesting.
Edited by popalock - 8/6/12 at 2:39pm
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post #1674 of 3108
8/6/12 at 1:18pm
The lab's would only be assembled in Europe. Stands to reason they could use most of the same parts. I don't have a real lab so I can't say for sure but it's pretty amazing what we buy that we call "high end" and it's the same parts as something a 1/4 the cost with a different chassis.
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post #1675 of 3108
8/6/12 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Sneaky bastards. Is nothing scared in China!!!

I think you meant, "Is nothing cadres in China!!! biggrin.gif A cadre is a revolutionary in a communist movement.
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post #1676 of 3108
8/6/12 at 2:54pm
Ive used the 10k clone in my garage for testing, and I've received the real deal...the clones behave (sound) and have the same output as the real deal, but there are differences, mostly cosmetic and connectivity. I actually prefer the clone version in terms of connection I wish the lab people took a note. I do not require the network monitoring that is offered in the real lab, so sanway has added a ch1 and 3 signal pass through in these slots, allowing you to connect 4 ch using two small xlr connections... This required a fem to male to male to male to male cable on a real lab....stupid. There is also an external fuse holder that sanway uses that is not on the real lab, as well as a remote on/ off switch on the real lab, that is not on the clone. Personally except for the potential reliability issue I would have bought 8 clones to my two labs, and I will end up going with clones for my monitor rig ( the whole audience won't know if an amp dies) when it's used on monitors. When the rig is finished I'll post some power pics. Thanks to the supportive forum members and happy customers.
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post #1677 of 3108
8/10/12 at 2:42pm
Guys - Any issues with running only one side of the FP14000 hooked up, and the other channel disconnected? I'm in the market for a sub amp for a single LMS 5400. Sounds like running this amp in bridged mono @ 4 ohms isn't an option. That's fine since all I need (for now) is the power of one channel, but I never tried running a pro amp in stereo mode, but with only one channel being used. I wouldn't think this is an issue so long as their no input connected to that channel and the gain is 0'd out, but wanted your thoughts. Not sure if this a good idea or not, or whether I should just find a different amp that can handle 4 ohm bridged mono.
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post #1678 of 3108
8/10/12 at 3:31pm
Yeah, sure. Absolutely. The other half of the amp (power transistors) will just sit idling at most. There is no danger of only using half the amp at a time.
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post #1679 of 3108
8/10/12 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat2950 View Post

Guys - Any issues with running only one side of the FP14000 hooked up, and the other channel disconnected? I'm in the market for a sub amp for a single LMS 5400. Sounds like running this amp in bridged mono @ 4 ohms isn't an option. That's fine since all I need (for now) is the power of one channel, but I never tried running a pro amp in stereo mode, but with only one channel being used. I wouldn't think this is an issue so long as their no input connected to that channel and the gain is 0'd out, but wanted your thoughts. Not sure if this a good idea or not, or whether I should just find a different amp that can handle 4 ohm bridged mono.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Yeah, sure. Absolutely. The other half of the amp (power transistors) will just sit idling at most. There is no danger of only using half the amp at a time.

+1

Plus it makes upgrading to that second Ultra that much easier when the time comes!
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post #1680 of 3108
8/10/12 at 4:14pm
Damn right!
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