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Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 58

post #1711 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

I just ordered 2x FTW21's and have a 10000Q...could I run those at full tilt too?
thanks
You should not have a problem with 2500 watts to a single 21" sub. Unless you have it in a HUGE box, other wise you will be fine.

With all this talk of the 10Q it is making me a bit worried about order my pair of 10Q's. But there is nothing that is as powerul for the money. And the four channels are perfect for my wants.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #1712 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

I just ordered 2x FTW21's and have a 10000Q...could I run those at full tilt too?
thanks

Yes, absolutely. Though remember, running 'full tilt' and not worrying about damage will depend on your system alignment and if excursion goes out of range with supplied power.

My models show the FTW-21 easily absorbing full 14k amp 4,400w peaks in a 7-8cuft sealed enclosure.... so you'll be safe enough with half that. wink.gif
post #1713 of 4389
Guys, many thanks for the replies.
I started building my cabs yesterday and will start a build thread for the 2x FTW21's
Now if only Mark can process my order and send me the subs!

They'll be in a 6cuft cab each...so I guess I'm fine sending 2000 watts to each sub.

Regards,
post #1714 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Guys, many thanks for the replies.
I started building my cabs yesterday and will start a build thread for the 2x FTW21's
Now if only Mark can process my order and send me the subs!
They'll be in a 6cuft cab each...so I guess I'm fine sending 2000 watts to each sub.
Regards,

I put my order in over three weeks ago so you may be waiting a while smile.gif

I too started building my cabs this week. My FTW cabs are just under 6 cu. ft. and my UXL cabs are just over 3 cu. ft. All four drivers will be run off a recently delivered 10000Q that seems to work flawlessly, though I don't really have a means of pushing it very hard.
post #1715 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Guys, many thanks for the replies.
I started building my cabs yesterday and will start a build thread for the 2x FTW21's
Now if only Mark can process my order and send me the subs!
They'll be in a 6cuft cab each...so I guess I'm fine sending 2000 watts to each sub.
Regards,

Oh yeah, definitely. You'd be fine sending in double that power. wink.gif Have fun!
post #1716 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Guys, many thanks for the replies.
I started building my cabs yesterday and will start a build thread for the 2x FTW21's
Now if only Mark can process my order and send me the subs!
They'll be in a 6cuft cab each...so I guess I'm fine sending 2000 watts to each sub.
Regards,

I'm running the same cabs with 1 channel of the 2 x 14K through each of the 4. I run my 14K's the same as Edogg and they have been fine. I did get one of my clones and though I was having a dip switch problem but it turned out to be the dip switch board was mounted just a little high and the switch weren't actually turning on. I popped it open, pried it down a bit and now all 4 amps are working perfect. Mark is pretty busty I bet, he does put all his subs together by hand and that includes winding his own coils and the whole shebang. I'm sure it won't be too long. Congrats by the way!!!
post #1717 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I'm running the same cabs with 1 channel of the 2 x 14K through each of the 4. I run my 14K's the same as Edogg and they have been fine. I did get one of my clones and though I was having a dip switch problem but it turned out to be the dip switch board was mounted just a little high and the switch weren't actually turning on. I popped it open, pried it down a bit and now all 4 amps are working perfect. Mark is pretty busty I bet, he does put all his subs together by hand and that includes winding his own coils and the whole shebang. I'm sure it won't be too long. Congrats by the way!!!

Thanks N8DOGG and Scott and VEXXD for the replies...I can't wait to get them and hear them...one quick question guys, did you put polyfill in your cabs?
Also, I ordered some Duratex for the finish, is there a special way to apply it?
I've never seen it before and have no experience on how to apply it.
I read to use a sponge roller
post #1718 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Thanks N8DOGG and Scott and VEXXD for the replies...I can't wait to get them and hear them...one quick question guys, did you put polyfill in your cabs?
Also, I ordered some Duratex for the finish, is there a special way to apply it?
I've never seen it before and have no experience on how to apply it.
I read to use a sponge roller

Polyfill - I will be, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

Duratex - I just ordered some the other day. I also got the Duratex foam roller to go with it. You can use any roller you want, but what you use will affect the texture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuav56tGIE4
Edited by VEXXD - 8/25/12 at 1:30am
post #1719 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by VEXXD View Post

Polyfill - I will be, but I haven't gotten that far yet.
Duratex - I just ordered some the other day. I also got the Duratex foam roller to go with it. You can use any roller you want, but what you use will affect the texture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuav56tGIE4

VEXXD,
Thanks for sharing...Man is that video ever helpful...
At the end he says it'll take a few days to fully cure.
How long do you wait before putting the sub in and letting her rip?
post #1720 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

VEXXD,
Thanks for sharing...Man is that video ever helpful...
At the end he says it'll take a few days to fully cure.
How long do you wait before putting the sub in and letting her rip?

Mine dried in a couple hours, mounted and had playing. I built a cheapo garage sub box out of OSB and coated inside and out.

Actually after seeing how far one bucket of duratex went, I cleaned off sanded and paint brushed my entire work bench and back splash with it. Then painted grey paint on top. Worked out well and took about a day of summer to dry. The paint on top took longer i'd say about 4 days. Only thing it can't hold up to and I never expect it to is weld splatter biggrin.gif
Still have a half bucket left.
Awesome stuff.
post #1721 of 4389
This guy is clipping is clone into 2-ohms!!! eek.gif
But what I find more interesting... is how quite these stock clone fans are compared to my itech, which just HOWLS!!! makes the EP's and FP's seem tame. I won't even need to mod it because it will out howl it, and besides, it will be drowned out by the music anyways wink.gif
Yeah those fans aren't very loud gents biggrin.gif
post #1722 of 4389
Eeeeefffff me, I think I just messed something up... I changed the settings to edoggs and was jamming out to a few songs trying to test the limits of my sub and all of a sudden my amp shuts off.

The amp is warm to the touch, not hot. I went to check the breaker and it's fine. Amp won't turn back on... WTF...
post #1723 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Eeeeefffff me, I think I just messed something up... I changed the settings to edoggs and was jamming out to a few songs trying to test the limits of my sub and all of a sudden my amp shuts off.
The amp is warm to the touch, not hot. I went to check the breaker and it's fine. Amp won't turn back on... WTF...

Check the fuse on the back of the amp if there is one. There is one on the back of my 10000q
post #1724 of 4389
Ok, I'll do it tonight after dinner. I'm crossing my fingers that is the case. Funny thing though is that my gain was at only about 1 o'clock and I didn't think I was doing anything really torturous. Just had one channel going too... I'd really rather prefer not having to learn how to do amp surgery at the moment...
post #1725 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I changed the settings to edoggs...........and all of a sudden my amp shuts off...........Amp won't turn back on....... WTF...
Oh $hit! eek.gif

Hopefully its something easy buddy, good luck.
post #1726 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Oh $hit! eek.gif
Hopefully its something easy buddy, good luck.

Couldn't help it so I ran downstairs really quick to check the fuse.

False alarm gents!

My dumba$$ took it upon myself to plug the amp into a surge protector. I reset the surge protector and snap. Amp came back to life!

Man, I'm so relieved. That would have jacked my weekend up for sure.

Cheers guys.
post #1727 of 4389
Well there ya go, doesnt get any easier than that. LOL!
post #1728 of 4389
Thread Starter 
Running these hard through a surge protector, you're going to have a dead surge protector. I wouldn't recommend it. I run mine through heavy duty rackmount PDUs.
post #1729 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Running these hard through a surge protector, you're going to have a dead surge protector. I wouldn't recommend it. I run mine through heavy duty rackmount PDUs.

Ditto.

Amp > direct outlet

If need surge to protect amp gear make sure your sub panel or path is grounded well. Now the rest of the rack items are plugged into APC surge strips then into the wall but they are lower current items. Even the lesser pro amps for mains I'd still plug directly as possible. Sure if your on the road there's circumstances, but permanent use in the house I'd keep the power path direct as possible.
post #1730 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Running these hard through a surge protector, you're going to have a dead surge protector. I wouldn't recommend it. I run mine through heavy duty rackmount PDUs.

$7 Surge protector from Home Depot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

Ditto.
Amp > direct outlet
If need surge to protect amp gear make sure your sub panel or path is grounded well. Now the rest of the rack items are plugged into APC surge strips then into the wall but they are lower current items. Even the lesser pro amps for mains I'd still plug directly as possible. Sure if your on the road there's circumstances, but permanent use in the house I'd keep the power path direct as possible.

I hear you guys, but since I've lived here we've had two nasty surges and I lost one of my old Yamaha AVR's. Besides that one reset, I haven't noticed any other issue keeping it connected to the surge protector. I'm attempting to err on the side of caution.

I asked my electrician about installing a whole house surge protection solution, but he gave me some BS excuse and said it would cost like $2K because I had no room to accomodate the install...
Edited by popalock - 8/26/12 at 5:44am
post #1731 of 4389
I am sure there are engineers around here that understand way more about this than me, but from what I have seen a whole home surge protector is basically just a breaker or device that provides a more direct path to ground in the event of a high voltage situation. Infact there are ones available that just pop into a breaker space. The external mount modules generally provide a higher degree of protection (higher joule and voltage capability) and of course will be more expensive to install.
post #1732 of 4389
Gents,

Forgive me for not knowing this entire thread like the back of my hand, but I have a quick question (kinda off topic?) regarding Johnson & Sanway.

I think I remember reading on this thread that Johnson was actually just a seller of this product? Pretty much a selling agent vs. the actual manufacturer? Is that safe to say?

I see that he is always answering technical questions and helping those with amp issues, but I'm just wondering what his actual role is? Is he one of those guys who sells the product and get's a cut? Or does he work directly for Sanway? I'd appreciate if anyone could shed a bit of light on this for me.

Feel free to PM me if you have any details.
post #1733 of 4389
30 seconds of google and....


post #1734 of 4389
Johnson says Sanway manufactures the amps. There address is in mainland China, but the 10000q I got recently was shipped out of hong kong. I have a feeling that There is a manufacturer for several of these clone companies there in Hongkong. However, the large capacitors in my new amp actually have sanway printed on them. Could be an OE that manufacturers for many to their specs?
post #1735 of 4389
With all due respect to the "30 seconds on Google...":

Sanway has had its own site, then it disappeared, reappeared, disappeared and same with his Alibaba (and China Trade, DhGate, Global Spec and many other trade sites) account, and could be missing from Alibaba tomorrow.

Johnson (not his real given name) Tang IS Sanway, which is the name he selected for his company, which sells various pro sound amps and speakers that are manufactured by others in Guangzhou and other Asian countries, which have a go-zillion such manufacturers.

When it comes to tech issues, JT is completely clueless. He basically acts as interpreter as virtually none of the amp engineers speak or read English. This means basically that you're on your own to troubleshoot clone amps, then order any parts you may need, as determined by yourself through whatever channels, from JT and hope they match the original parts. He has little if any leverage with the manufacturers and, especially if he doesn't know what exactly to ask the engineers, will get a "go away, we're busy" response from them.

For example, the output transistors (there are like 36 of them) might be black market copies. Many of them aren't built flat, so don't lay properly on the "copper" heat sinks. Especially with a fan mod, if they burn out they may cost as much as you paid for the amp to get authentic replacements. All of the components and boards in the Chinese amps may change without notice and JT may source different manufacturers at any time without notice.

Since the front panel and case design (which are a patent infringement, BTW) are exact copies of the LG amps, you have no way of knowing what parts are inside the amp you'll get or who manufactured it in what country, despite the fact that they all look exactly alike on the outside.

I'll repeat MO, FWIW again here:

notnyt pinged me when he first found the clones. He was looking to source from one of 2 of the 'agents' who sell the clones. I suggested that they were less reliable and suggested he ping JT. After we compared interior components pics from those 3 agents with pics from amps I had already purchased, it became obvious to us both that what you may actually receive is a crap shoot, so...

He offered to act as middle man for a small fee to receive, open, check and test the amps before forwarding to whomever wished to buy them. This means that he could use the quantities being purchased to leverage JT against any number of similar agents doing the same thing, some of whom may be better interpreters than JT or hungrier for the sales, etc, etc., etc.

There were no takers, to which I reply: W-O-W!

So, if you wish to purchase a patent-infringing clone for 1/6 the price of the real deal on your own, strictly based on the idea that everyone else is doing it and from the same guy, have at it and take what you get and go from there.

There is zero guarantee that JT will have a site next week or be able to be contacted or do anything to help you in any way. Never was. Isn't now. Never will be.

There are at least a dozen such agents who sell the same products JT sells. The amps may be built in China, Thailand, Malaysia, or other. None of the amplifiers anyone has purchased from JT say where they're made anywhere on or in the amplifier. This I know because I have a dozen versions of these switching amps from different agents and have tracked down the actual place of manufacture from all of the Asian countries mentioned.

My opinion is, and I mentioned it to not back when, that he should not have started this thread as he did and should just have made the offer to act as stateside middleman. One reason is because I knew that just what is happening would happen. There is no organization here, only info as to where and how to purchase. As one simple example, why hasn't everyone opened his amps and posted hi res pics of the PS caps, boards, transistors, fans, fuses, etc., so that everyone who purchases could look into whether or not he was hosed? How do you know you received the FP14000 and not the FP7000 or K12000?

If it's every man for himself, which is what this whole amp thing seems to me to have evolved into, so be it, but as an onlooker it pains me to see the lack of organization because it always ends with someone getting the banana when it probably could have been avoided.
post #1736 of 4389
Bossobass, will you be selling the A-14K and A-9K separately or are they only available with a Raptor or Blackbird system?
post #1737 of 4389
So here is where I'm at with Johnson... I took some measurments of the amp that is hurt, and sent him pics, and a spreasheet with the values I was getting from the various ocmponents. He replied saying that a couple components are the issue and is sending them to me free.... I do not have an electronics back ground, so I will be taking them to a tech to replace these components. I'll attach what I can to this thread so that others can be 'warned"... it's like booso says "buyer beware" there is no warranty, so if you win , you win, if you lose... you'll be where I'm at.

The most recent email
From: Johnson Tang [mailto:sales@china-sanway.com]
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 9:16 AM
To: Shane Presley
Subject: Re:Re:RE: S Presley BSS productions amp 2012080088 - problem

Dear Shane,

The A2601 or OCS boards in the amplifier boards were burned, i will send you spare parts tomorrow, please swap them as picture after received by yourself after received, OK?
Thank you,
Johnson

As an observation ( which may or maynot matter), you'll note that several of the components in the sanway photo, vs my photos have different colours of components which obviously re-enforce bosso's statements as to who is making what , and from where... personally I just want all the amps working if not for me, for someone else, as everyone is aware I cannot continue to use them for my business ventures in a professional setting. I had great luck with the first run I ordered, they didn't have any issues... now that I own 5 10K's, 1.5 of them have come up short, and I'm trying to get them fixed... hopefully the issue has been identified, and they will be repaired by the tech at a local large sound company, I'll just supply him the parts, and pay for the installation. Stay tuned



SANWAY_AMP_2012080088.xls 2687k .xls file



Edited by Heywood1969 - 8/27/12 at 9:40am
post #1738 of 4389
Good luck Heywood. I'm in a similar boat!
post #1739 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

With all due respect to the "30 seconds on Google...":
Sanway has had its own site, then it disappeared, reappeared, disappeared and same with his Alibaba (and China Trade, DhGate, Global Spec and many other trade sites) account, and could be missing from Alibaba tomorrow.
Johnson (not his real given name) Tang IS Sanway, which is the name he selected for his company, which sells various pro sound amps and speakers that are manufactured by others in Guangzhou and other Asian countries, which have a go-zillion such manufacturers.
When it comes to tech issues, JT is completely clueless. He basically acts as interpreter as virtually none of the amp engineers speak or read English. This means basically that you're on your own to troubleshoot clone amps, then order any parts you may need, as determined by yourself through whatever channels, from JT and hope they match the original parts. He has little if any leverage with the manufacturers and, especially if he doesn't know what exactly to ask the engineers, will get a "go away, we're busy" response from them.
For example, the output transistors (there are like 36 of them) might be black market copies. Many of them aren't built flat, so don't lay properly on the "copper" heat sinks. Especially with a fan mod, if they burn out they may cost as much as you paid for the amp to get authentic replacements. All of the components and boards in the Chinese amps may change without notice and JT may source different manufacturers at any time without notice.
Since the front panel and case design (which are a patent infringement, BTW) are exact copies of the LG amps, you have no way of knowing what parts are inside the amp you'll get or who manufactured it in what country, despite the fact that they all look exactly alike on the outside.
I'll repeat MO, FWIW again here:
notnyt pinged me when he first found the clones. He was looking to source from one of 2 of the 'agents' who sell the clones. I suggested that they were less reliable and suggested he ping JT. After we compared interior components pics from those 3 agents with pics from amps I had already purchased, it became obvious to us both that what you may actually receive is a crap shoot, so...
He offered to act as middle man for a small fee to receive, open, check and test the amps before forwarding to whomever wished to buy them. This means that he could use the quantities being purchased to leverage JT against any number of similar agents doing the same thing, some of whom may be better interpreters than JT or hungrier for the sales, etc, etc., etc.
There were no takers, to which I reply: W-O-W!
So, if you wish to purchase a patent-infringing clone for 1/6 the price of the real deal on your own, strictly based on the idea that everyone else is doing it and from the same guy, have at it and take what you get and go from there.
There is zero guarantee that JT will have a site next week or be able to be contacted or do anything to help you in any way. Never was. Isn't now. Never will be.
There are at least a dozen such agents who sell the same products JT sells. The amps may be built in China, Thailand, Malaysia, or other. None of the amplifiers anyone has purchased from JT say where they're made anywhere on or in the amplifier. This I know because I have a dozen versions of these switching amps from different agents and have tracked down the actual place of manufacture from all of the Asian countries mentioned.
My opinion is, and I mentioned it to not back when, that he should not have started this thread as he did and should just have made the offer to act as stateside middleman. One reason is because I knew that just what is happening would happen. There is no organization here, only info as to where and how to purchase. As one simple example, why hasn't everyone opened his amps and posted hi res pics of the PS caps, boards, transistors, fans, fuses, etc., so that everyone who purchases could look into whether or not he was hosed? How do you know you received the FP14000 and not the FP7000 or K12000?
If it's every man for himself, which is what this whole amp thing seems to me to have evolved into, so be it, but as an onlooker it pains me to see the lack of organization because it always ends with someone getting the banana when it probably could have been avoided.

I'm pretty sure most of us know that when we are buying these clones that it's a crap shoot. That being said, for the most part, the fp14K amps seem to be more reliable that the 10Q's. I currently have 3 14K's with a 4th on the way after selling my first 4th to a friend. No problems yet and if I do, then I'll deal with it as it comes.
I seen you posted again that you can't believe that people didn't take Not up on his offer.... Thats the 4th or 5th time you've said that. I'm not sure why you can't get past the idea that no one knew ANYTHING about these amps before this thread and it would be a tough sell for pretty much anyone to pay 1K for an amp that they've never even heard of. It didn't happen and it's done, thats all there is to it. Most people are just venting, a bit frustrated but knew what they were getting themselves into, they don't need a lecture from you or an "I told you so".
post #1740 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

$7 Surge protector from Home Depot.
I hear you guys, but since I've lived here we've had two nasty surges and I lost one of my old Yamaha AVR's. Besides that one reset, I haven't noticed any other issue keeping it connected to the surge protector. I'm attempting to err on the side of caution.
I asked my electrician about installing a whole house surge protection solution, but he gave me some BS excuse and said it would cost like $2K because I had no room to accomodate the install...

Installing a whole home surge protector cost me a grand total of $250 with parts and labor. I did have the panel open to access the wires without OSB on the walls so that helped with the labor part but not by $1750 by any stretch. I have the one I used linked in my build thread in the theater section if want to look at it.
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