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Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 59

post #1741 of 3012
8/28/12 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I'm pretty sure most of us know that when we are buying these clones that it's a crap shoot. That being said, for the most part, the fp14K amps seem to be more reliable that the 10Q's. I currently have 3 14K's with a 4th on the way after selling my first 4th to a friend. No problems yet and if I do, then I'll deal with it as it comes.
I seen you posted again that you can't believe that people didn't take Not up on his offer.... Thats the 4th or 5th time you've said that. I'm not sure why you can't get past the idea that no one knew ANYTHING about these amps before this thread and it would be a tough sell for pretty much anyone to pay 1K for an amp that they've never even heard of. It didn't happen and it's done, thats all there is to it. Most people are just venting, a bit frustrated but knew what they were getting themselves into, they don't need a lecture from you or an "I told you so".

Nor do I need a lecture from you. Especially a load of BS.

No one cares if you've had no problems, knew what you were getting into (you didn't), or any of your irrelevant rant.

If you have amps, post interior pics. The more info, the less of a crap shoot. It would be nice to know if all 5 amps have the same boards, caps, PS config, transistors, etc.

You have no idea what "people knew". Please don't patronize me with what anyone knew before this thread or what people know today or tomorrow. That's the point of my post. I'm positively sure that most people do not believe their purchase is a "crap shoot".

Venting is a waste of time and painful to read. Add something to the thread besides how knowledgeable a purchase agent you are and how fortunate you have been in purchasing 4 amplifiers.
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post #1742 of 3012
8/28/12 at 10:58am
I think what the bargain hunter in us all wanted to think CLONE was the same as OEM. Sometimes they are but in this case it appears they are not from what I have read. LG would not tolerate this level of service, part swapping and failure rate.

Here is some simple math in risk of violating SOP here on the forum.

My distributor cost (not direct LG dealer) on the LG is as follows:
FP1000Q - 4120
FP14000 - 4235

Distributors normally work on 15% (sometimes more but this is average, all they do is take an order and foward it to manf...). That said distributor cost is as follows:
FP1000Q - 3500
FP14000 - 3675

If Sanway was the OEM the LG cost of goods is around 27% and that is low based on my info from other related items.

My guess LG BOM (bill of material) cost is around $1450 - $1650.

Means nothing I know...
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post #1743 of 3012
8/28/12 at 11:19am
Can someone PM me, or point me to, the Sanway LG Clone Price List. I can't seem to find in on this thread. I know I've seen it!
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post #1744 of 3012
8/28/12 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Can someone PM me, or point me to, the Sanway LG Clone Price List. I can't seem to find in on this thread. I know I've seen it!

It's at the bottom of the very first post of this thread. wink.gif
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post #1745 of 3012
8/28/12 at 12:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

I think what the bargain hunter in us all wanted to think CLONE was the same as OEM. Sometimes they are but in this case it appears they are not from what I have read. LG would not tolerate this level of service, part swapping and failure rate.
Here is some simple math in risk of violating SOP here on the forum.
My distributor cost (not direct LG dealer) on the LG is as follows:
FP1000Q - 4120
FP14000 - 4235
Distributors normally work on 15% (sometimes more but this is average, all they do is take an order and foward it to manf...). That said distributor cost is as follows:
FP1000Q - 3500
FP14000 - 3675
If Sanway was the OEM the LG cost of goods is around 27% and that is low based on my info from other related items.
My guess LG BOM (bill of material) cost is around $1450 - $1650.
Means nothing I know...

The cost of materials is low, the cost of R&D time is high. Obviously these are not the same as original LG's, if you read the information posted, this would be obvious.
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post #1746 of 3012
8/28/12 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

It's at the bottom of the very first post of this thread. wink.gif

Was looking for something more along the lines of pricing for higher quantity purchases... I thought I saw pricing for the Clones for like a 10 or 100 quantity.
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post #1747 of 3012
8/28/12 at 2:37pm
Not,

But wasn't it kinda sorta implied they were one in the same? Maybe maybe not...

Not trying to argue far from it.

Even to me clone suggested duplicate but not to what extent of course.
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post #1748 of 3012
8/28/12 at 7:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Was looking for something more along the lines of pricing for higher quantity purchases... I thought I saw pricing for the Clones for like a 10 or 100 quantity.

Someone mentioned buying multiple for a discount and found out that there is not any discount. I know its been suggested before some where in this thread. You would probably have to buy at least a few 100 or something for them to come down in price. Now I dont know for sure but thats what I gathered.
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post #1749 of 3012
8/28/12 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Someone mentioned buying multiple for a discount and found out that there is not any discount. I know its been suggested before some where in this thread. You would probably have to buy at least a few 100 or something for them to come down in price. Now I dont know for sure but thats what I gathered.

I know that when I tried to get a group buy going at the beginning of the year the discount was around $20 if I remember right. That was for around 20-25 amplifiers. At the end of the day it really wasnt worth it.
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post #1750 of 3012
8/28/12 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Nor do I need a lecture from you. Especially a load of BS.
No one cares if you've had no problems, knew what you were getting into (you didn't), or any of your irrelevant rant.
If you have amps, post interior pics. The more info, the less of a crap shoot. It would be nice to know if all 5 amps have the same boards, caps, PS config, transistors, etc.
You have no idea what "people knew". Please don't patronize me with what anyone knew before this thread or what people know today or tomorrow. That's the point of my post. I'm positively sure that most people do not believe their purchase is a "crap shoot".
Venting is a waste of time and painful to read. Add something to the thread besides how knowledgeable a purchase agent you are and how fortunate you have been in purchasing 4 amplifiers.

Give me a break, everyone that's read this thread and bought and amp knew what they were getting themselves into. I'd bet 99% of the people that bought a clone only did so because of THIS thread. When Not was posting what he "may" have found, everyone was interested in it and waiting to see what results he had. You say that I'm venting but whine that no one to Not up on his offer for the 5th freaking time, get over it. If you are such the "MAN" why don't you offer the service to test out the clones? Since you say you have more info that we all do, put your money where your mouth is...... cool.gif
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post #1751 of 3012
8/29/12 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Give me a break, everyone that's read this thread and bought and amp knew what they were getting themselves into. I'd bet 99% of the people that bought a clone only did so because of THIS thread. When Not was posting what he "may" have found, everyone was interested in it and waiting to see what results he had. You say that I'm venting but whine that no one to Not up on his offer for the 5th freaking time, get over it. If you are such the "MAN" why don't you offer the service to test out the clones? Since you say you have more info that we all do, put your money where your mouth is...... cool.gif

No breaks for you.

I get plenty of requests for info on these amplifiers, so no, not everyone cares to wade through this mostly useless (thanks to posts like yours) thread.

I mentioned the VPL problem early on. If Sanway were the manufacturer, why does he suggest the purchaser measure diode values and then send him the diodes he professes are the fix instead of just sending a working VPL board to exchange, fix the bad one and install it in the next amp? Because he isn't the manufacturer, and that's what I responded to.

Either way, he should be pressured into sending the guy a new diode array board. Changing out diodes from mislabeled pictures and baloney instructions, or paying some tech to do it for you is unacceptable and unnecessary. He should also be passing along the fix and notice to double check the VPL boards to the manufacturer and he should post their response in an email.

Your "Oh well, we all knew this might happen when we sent our money up front" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read in this forum, and zero help to the folks getting hosed. I know no such thing, and wouldn't send anyone a dime if I thought that going in, so there is no "we" or "everyone" in your silly claim.

As far as your objection to how many times I repeat that it could have... and most likely still can... be avoided altogether goes... don't tell me what to post. I positively have more information than you do, but that isn't saying much. notnyt did his homework and any problems were properly diagnosed and corrected with no whining for assistance in a forum and that's simply because he's far more capable than most in this area and, more importantly, had enough interest in the subject to post this thread and make the offer he made. Only a fool or someone who wasn't here when the offer was made would have missed that.

No, I'm not at all interested in offering what not offered, especially through Sanway. I'm suggesting people ping him to reconsider his offer. I'm also suggesting that if no one does, or if not is no longer interested, these problems will continue and likely increase. And, I'll make that same suggestion as often as I like because it bears repeating, far more so than your opinion to the contrary.
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post #1752 of 3012
8/29/12 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

No breaks for you.
I get plenty of requests for info on these amplifiers, so no, not everyone cares to wade through this mostly useless (thanks to posts like yours) thread.
I mentioned the VPL problem early on. If Sanway were the manufacturer, why does he suggest the purchaser measure diode values and then send him the diodes he professes are the fix instead of just sending a working VPL board to exchange, fix the bad one and install it in the next amp? Because he isn't the manufacturer, and that's what I responded to.
Either way, he should be pressured into sending the guy a new diode array board. Changing out diodes from mislabeled pictures and baloney instructions, or paying some tech to do it for you is unacceptable and unnecessary. He should also be passing along the fix and notice to double check the VPL boards to the manufacturer and he should post their response in an email.
Your "Oh well, we all knew this might happen when we sent our money up front" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read in this forum, and zero help to the folks getting hosed. I know no such thing, and wouldn't send anyone a dime if I thought that going in, so there is no "we" or "everyone" in your silly claim.
As far as your objection to how many times I repeat that it could have... and most likely still can... be avoided altogether goes... don't tell me what to post. I positively have more information than you do, but that isn't saying much. notnyt did his homework and any problems were properly diagnosed and corrected with no whining for assistance in a forum and that's simply because he's far more capable than most in this area and, more importantly, had enough interest in the subject to post this thread and make the offer he made. Only a fool or someone who wasn't here when the offer was made would have missed that.
No, I'm not at all interested in offering what not offered, especially through Sanway. I'm suggesting people ping him to reconsider his offer. I'm also suggesting that if no one does, or if not is no longer interested, these problems will continue and likely increase. And, I'll make that same suggestion as often as I like because it bears repeating, far more so than your opinion to the contrary.

So you buy grey market amp, that is a complete ripoff of LG other than internal quality and you expect to have it all? You actually expect to not have any problems buying from a third party in China with "questionable build quality" as you say? Give your head a shake, buying these amps are no better than gambling and thats all their is to it. Some win and some loose but it's a good gamble for what you get for the money. For the guys that are not reading the thread and buying these amps, that's their deal, the info is there for the reading.
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post #1753 of 3012
8/29/12 at 7:36pm
I'm just going to say this. I knew there was a risk when I bought the 10000s but I was one of the first to get a bad 10000. Now that more people have bought them it seems like they are getting worse and worse. I cant say the same for the 14000s and if the quality control had been anywhere near what it is now with the 10000s I definately would NOT have purchased them. I think anyone who buys the 10000s after reading this thread is out of their mind!!!! A used real LG would be a much smarter purchase at the rate these amps are coming state side right now.

And I tend to disagree with Bosso on a lot of his long winded posts but this time he is 100% correct. If I had one inkling of the knowledge needed to take mine apart and see if they are even the same I would do so for the thread. It just appears JT has found "us" and is ripping the **** out of us very knowingly. These 10000s we are getting are most likely not the same as the earlier ones he was selling us would be my guess too. He has found more profit and bending us over. The sad thing is I still may get some 14000s as long as they keep making it here in good working order.

And as far as Not and offering the deal he did, I just think everyone was ignorant to what he was offering since they were so new to more than just the majority of us. If he had kept the offer up for a few more months I bet it would still be going if he didnt get too burnt out with the orders. But, I also bet JT would be sending working amps right now too!

I would love to see a side by side chart of the real LG and the ones we are getting. It could even be better buying the real thing spread out to more subs (fewer amps for the same output).

Anyone know how many bad 14000s have been listed on here?
Anyone know how many bad 10000s have been listed on here?

Me, one 10000 clips on channel 1 really early then spreads out to the other channels. My cure is to turn down channel one on the front pannel. Not a very good cure for anyone without 10 subs!
My other 10000 seems ok even though I can drive it to clipping very easily. It does push the 4 FTW 21s very well before reaching its limits though.
Edited by audiovideoholic - 8/29/12 at 7:48pm
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post #1754 of 3012
8/29/12 at 7:48pm
Well, if we want inside pics of the 10000's, Id say heywood is the only one that I know of that has 5, Maybe when he takes out all the units to sell, he can pop the tops off for a look, then at least you'd get a good idea..... As for the 14K's, when i get my new one next week, I'll take the tops off all mine and post up pics. It's our own faults if we get crap, though like has been said before, looks like the 14K's have been doing pretty well so far.
I think we can safely say, the easiest solution is just not to buy them, buy something locally or find another source...
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post #1755 of 3012
8/29/12 at 8:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Well, if we want inside pics of the 10000's, Id say heywood is the only one that I know of that has 5, Maybe when he takes out all the units to sell, he can pop the tops off for a look, then at least you'd get a good idea..... As for the 14K's, when i get my new one next week, I'll take the tops off all mine and post up pics. It's our own faults if we get crap, though like has been said before, looks like the 14K's have been doing pretty well so far.
I think we can safely say, the easiest solution is just not to buy them, buy something locally or find another source...

Yeah, it is our own fault for getting crap but when I bought mine there had only been one bad 10000 reported on here and since then the numbers have been so bad that they arent even worth buying (atleast thats how I see it).

And, like I said, "if I had one inkling of the knowledge". That doesnt mean just pop the top and take a pic I wouldnt think. Couldnt the parts look exactly the same but be totally different? I'm sure pics could point out some things, if there is anything to point out, but they wont tell us everything by any stretch. Am curious what his/your pics could show.
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post #1756 of 3012
8/29/12 at 10:23pm
O, it's not that I don't think it sucks to get a dud, more that I actually expect some to be turds. I mean it's China, They could care less what a few guys on a audio forum think, I'm sure we are almost not even worth bothering with for sales we make up so little BUT in the end, they know if we get a dud, it's of no concern to them really, they got their money. I mean I've spoken with JT many times over the last few months, who knows what the real story is with that guy or the company. I like to gamble, i took my chances as well as lots of other guys. I would be interesting to put up a poll for the 10 and 14 and see how many have had good units to problems. Heck the one on it's way could be a dud for all I know.....tongue.gif
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post #1757 of 3012
8/29/12 at 11:25pm
I had a good 10k, and my 14k is working great.
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post #1758 of 3012
8/30/12 at 12:13am
Put me down for 2 fully functioning 14k's.
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post #1759 of 3012
8/30/12 at 12:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Put me down for 2 fully functioning 14k's.

I knew it! The bug strikes again! You're not going to stop until you hurt yourself...lol
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post #1760 of 3012
8/30/12 at 1:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I knew it! The bug strikes again! You're not going to stop until you hurt yourself...lol
No silly, I was just replying to N8's poll. lol
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post #1761 of 3012
8/30/12 at 5:25am
lol

I am very disheartened to hear about the bad 10Q's. I was going to buy a two 10Q's ad a 14 for my setup soon but these failing 10Q's has me worried. That being said I would have to spend something like 2000 for me to equal a single 10Q.

AVH.....I still have not gotten my 21's yet. They are hear in Australia but paypal is being a pain plus I have another 267 dollars in fees to pay......AAARRRGGHH!!!

Has anyone opened up the 10Q's to see if they can be fixed by us DIY folks?

I dont mind soldering or falling a check list to find out how to fix something but wondered if anyone could help with that sort of thing. I think the 14K seems good to go. And with Bosso and Not we seem to be able to fix any little problems that may occur with the info they have provided.biggrin.gif
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post #1762 of 3012
8/30/12 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

lol
I am very disheartened to hear about the bad 10Q's. I was going to buy a two 10Q's ad a 14 for my setup soon but these failing 10Q's has me worried. That being said I would have to spend something like 2000 for me to equal a single 10Q.
AVH.....I still have not gotten my 21's yet. They are hear in Australia but paypal is being a pain plus I have another 267 dollars in fees to pay......AAARRRGGHH!!!
Has anyone opened up the 10Q's to see if they can be fixed by us DIY folks?
I dont mind soldering or falling a check list to find out how to fix something but wondered if anyone could help with that sort of thing. I think the 14K seems good to go. And with Bosso and Not we seem to be able to fix any little problems that may occur with the info they have provided.biggrin.gif

Just a reminder. I will have all of mine for sale at some point. I have 3.75 working and and 1.25 not smile.gif I'm working on getting the defective channels working with a professional audio service tech. The parts are in the air supposedly according to johnson. After sept 16th, there will be 3 working / tested 10Qs for sale at $1000 cdn. Some of you have raised your hands and are in line ( hopefully still) - Chrapladm, I'm letting you know that what you would be getting will at least have been tested. If I manage to repair the hurt amplifiers, I would let the party purchasing know that they previously had a repair done, I would hope someone would do the same for me... BTW - oddly I was more impressed with the 10Q for output than the 14K that i had, that was wierd for sure...
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post #1763 of 3012
8/30/12 at 6:30am
1 tested 10000Q no issues
2 tested 14000s no issues
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post #1764 of 3012
8/30/12 at 6:37am
I have my 10000q apart as we speak. I will take several pics and post them so others can compare.
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post #1765 of 3012
8/30/12 at 7:06am
OH YOU WANTED PICTURES LOL !!







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post #1766 of 3012
8/30/12 at 7:57am
Nice pics Heywood!. I've had 4 fully great FP14's with no issues and one still on the way. A friend of mine has 2 fp14 that are also good to go.
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post #1767 of 3012
8/30/12 at 9:55am
1 FP10000 up and running with no issues
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post #1768 of 3012
8/30/12 at 10:45am
1 FP10k & 1 FP14k , Both needed repairs (Diodes, resistors & a few caps) Sold them a year ago but have been working since. They weren`t from Sanway...
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post #1769 of 3012
8/30/12 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

lol
I am very disheartened to hear about the bad 10Q's. I was going to buy a two 10Q's ad a 14 for my setup soon but these failing 10Q's has me worried. That being said I would have to spend something like 2000 for me to equal a single 10Q.
AVH.....I still have not gotten my 21's yet. They are hear in Australia but paypal is being a pain plus I have another 267 dollars in fees to pay......AAARRRGGHH!!!
Has anyone opened up the 10Q's to see if they can be fixed by us DIY folks?
I dont mind soldering or falling a check list to find out how to fix something but wondered if anyone could help with that sort of thing. I think the 14K seems good to go. And with Bosso and Not we seem to be able to fix any little problems that may occur with the info they have provided.biggrin.gif

Thats sad to say the least! First person that ordered and yet still no subs.
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post #1770 of 3012
8/30/12 at 4:24pm
He wasn't the first one that ordered, That goes to your truly lol. Chap, did you pay the entire amount up front when Mark was thinking about making the drivers? or was it after when he finally got the parts to start building?
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