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Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 60

post #1771 of 4387
LOL.......I asked Mark if he could build a 21 before everything was started. When Exodus was going I realized there weren't going to be any more. I contacted IA and IST. IA was a pain to get emails back from and Mark was easier. SO Mark asked if I would start a thread and see if anyone out there was interested. If we could get enough interested and committed he said he would try and make the subwoofer. I ordered and then AVH and SVR got the thing rolling and it ..........went from there. I was there in the beginning and, what a surprise, I am here in the end. rolleyes.gif

Bosso wear are you dang 15's biggrin.gif

If shipping was not the killing factor for me I would have bought eight 15's. So I was going to settle for two 21's then add another pair. But with the increase in price that idea wont be happening. Will end up going with multiple 15's added later.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #1772 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

LOL.......I asked Mark if he could build a 21 before everything was started. When Exodus was going I realized there weren't going to be any more. I contacted IA and IST. IA was a pain to get emails back from and Mark was easier. SO Mark asked if I would start a thread and see if anyone out there was interested. If we could get enough interested and committed he said he would try and make the subwoofer. I ordered and then AVH and SVR got the thing rolling and it ..........went from there. I was there in the beginning and, what a surprise, I am here in the end. rolleyes.gif
Bosso wear are you dang 15's biggrin.gif
If shipping was not the killing factor for me I would have bought eight 15's. So I was going to settle for two 21's then add another pair. But with the increase in price that idea wont be happening. Will end up going with multiple 15's added later.

Ok, I remember now. Ya the shipping thing sucks but the subs are awesome! i still remember when I got my mal-x 21's, Mark laughed at me... biggrin.gif
post #1773 of 4387
Tally so far

FP10000s 8 total with 4 bad ones for 50% failure
FP14000s 12 total with 1 bad so about 8% failure

I didnt add Keager to the tally since didnt know if was good or bad?

There are more out there but only counting from last two pages foward. Will try to keep adding them up as people post.
post #1774 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Tally so far
FP10000s 8 total with 4 bad ones for 50% failure
FP14000s 12 total with 1 bad so about 8% failure
I didnt add Keager to the tally since didnt know if was good or bad?
There are more out there but only counting from last two pages foward. Will try to keep adding them up as people post.

I bought Keagers old FP14k. It's good.
post #1775 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Bosso wear are you dang 15's biggrin.gif

I'm actually working on a DIYers page with 18s (which will be exclusively for DIY, I don't use 18s), signal shaper built for the 18s and amps. Maybe ready this fall. 18s target price is around $300.

The 15s are NFS. smile.gif

Here's a composite of several boards that show the differences I've encountered (and lifted from other's posted pics) in the boards, layouts and components for the clone amps:

CloneAmpBoards.jpg

Should give an idea how they can change at will.
post #1776 of 4387
WOW.....thats crazy how they change at will. Seems like what ever parts they have around is what they use.

I figured you would keep the best woofers for yourself......LOL

Has anyone tried to use the FP7 or 9K from Sanway?

I think Bosso mention using the 9k but not sure. I might have to just get high powered two channels and save myself the heart ache of the four channel 10Q.
post #1777 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Tally so far
FP10000s 8 total with 4 bad ones for 50% failure
FP14000s 12 total with 1 bad so about 8% failure
I didnt add Keager to the tally since didnt know if was good or bad?
There are more out there but only counting from last two pages foward. Will try to keep adding them up as people post.

I have had intermitant issues since day one with my 10000q. However, it sounds different than most of the other failures.
post #1778 of 4387
Here's a comparo of a pic sent to not before he bought his amps and an amp I bought a year earlier that was badged an FP-9000:

fp9kvsfp14k.png

Note the board reads; K 12000 on the channel board of the "FP 9000" I bought. The 'K' series is the actual platform these amps are all built on, but some enterprising fella or group decided to put a LG front on them and the rest is history.

Point is, these are not LG clone amps. The only patent they violate is the cosmetic patent LG has for the front panel, which is a near-exact copy, but all of the agents offer the same amps with completely different front panels, including Sanway. I wish it were true that "everyone already knows all of this" but it isn't.

All I'm saying is that this buying from JT deal should have its act way more together by now. You can get whatever you need from him or switch to one of his competitors who will give you what you need. I've gotten entirely new boards and cases when a component has failed and/or discounts on the next amp. No way I'm soldering parts, nor should anyone else, unless he chooses to.

There is only risk if everyone acts as an individual instead of part of a group and that risk increases the longer you all continue to admit publicly that you knew going in you might get hosed, which, quite frankly, blows my mind.

This is the last I'll post on the subject, so take it for what it's worth or ignore it completely. I really don't care to argue about it because it isn't my opinion, it's just the way it is.
post #1779 of 4387
Sorry, here's one more, because it's important and something everyone can easily check visually, Here's the Power Supply boards of an amp I bought and a 10000Q:

PSboardComparo.jpg

Note the heat sinks, mine has 16 fins and a smaller heat sink next to it and the 10KQ has 12 fins and no smaller sink. Also, it's easy to note the values of the caps and post what they should be so that anyone can check quickly to see if he got the correct size caps. Note the heat sink next to the caps as well; mine is thicker and larger and with these high output amps, heat sinking is everything to long life of the components they aim to keep cool.

In the previous comparo of the boards I posted, note that one of them has open fins as opposed to the radiator-like heat sinks that should be there instead. You may have to look underneath the shield, but it's better to unscrew a board and carefully flip it upside down to inspect the heat sinks. All of the output transistors are mounted directly on the channel boards heat sinks and they get hot and will croak if not kept cool enough.
post #1780 of 4387
I myself would prefer to have a different front panel if I can get one.

Once again thanks so much for the helpful info and pics Bosso.
post #1781 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

I'm actually working on a DIYers page with 18s (which will be exclusively for DIY, I don't use 18s), signal shaper built for the 18s and amps. Maybe ready this fall. 18s target price is around $300.

O RLY??!?!
post #1782 of 4387
Bosso, When I say "everyone already know's this" I'm referring to buying amps from China, from some guy, from some place etc and possible getting screwed (if someone doesn't know thats at least a possibility, I can't imagine them getting to far in life) . It doesn't matter whats inside as you can see, it's a complete gamble what you may get. Although different color pcb and different types of caps, resistors doesn't mean the designs are totally different. It also doesn't make them any less reliable from an electronics standpoint. We are not dealing with a solid NA brand here. I'm sure they bid on parts just like everyone else.
post #1783 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I bought Keagers old FP14k. It's good.

Scratch that. One of the channels is clipping for no apparent reason (to me anyway). I'm not the type to double post videos, but I thought this was relevant to this thread.


I'll be searching through this thread over the next few days to see if there is any fix to my issue, otherwise I'm just going to have to take it in for repair.
post #1784 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Here's a pic of how my dip switches are setup on both my 14k's. smile.gif
234376de.jpg

Hey guys, I'm not seeing a switch for bridge mode. Also, question about bridge mode, do both channels have to be level matched if I am running both subs in 8ohm series through the amp?
post #1785 of 4387
switch 4 is for bridge mode. it needs to be up to engage bridged mode.
post #1786 of 4387
And i beleive the top gain dial is the one that is active in bridged mode. The other one should be turned all the way down. Just going by memory though
post #1787 of 4387
Has anyone had any experience with other LAB clones mark? Ho-Young, Gisen, Jensen Audio, MerrySound, etc...... ??
post #1788 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by winny32 View Post

Has anyone had any experience with other LAB clones mark? Ho-Young, Gisen, Jensen Audio, MerrySound, etc...... ??

Bosso has looked a few others IIRC, as well as Not, but I cant be positive either of them ended up purchasing from the others.
post #1789 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

switch 4 is for bridge mode. it needs to be up to engage bridged mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

And i beleive the top gain dial is the one that is active in bridged mode. The other one should be turned all the way down. Just going by memory though

Alright gents...thanks.

I'll try that tonight. I'm assuming the bridge mode light will come on in the front and rear of the amp, correct? Or is that just for show as well?
post #1790 of 4387
One other guestion guys. I found a shop that can do the repair for me.

I'm still learning a lot about amps in general, but I was wondering if it would be an asinine request to ask for a few upgrades when the repairs are done.

I just don't know if my requests would even be possible?

For instane, our Clones have been verified to be stable to around 2.8ohm. Would it be pointless for me to ask if anything can be done to get it stable down to 2ohm like the OEM LG? Also, would it be possible to have them install any type of protection mode (like an auto shut-off) to save my from frying my amp?

Would these request be possible and/or feasible?
post #1791 of 4387
I also have a clone but mine is from a company called CVR...i bought this from a guy who brings them in down here in Barbados for his personal uses. Mine is the 1302 which i think is more along the lines of the fp6400 since its rated at about 2200 watts in 4ohm. I opened it up and saw that its basically the same board ya'll mentioned above...the k12000 or something. I'm experiencing some weird issues with the amplifier. Used it once and everything was ok....tried to plug up and use it again and now the fans are on a high rev with the mute lights on constantly...nothing connected to the amp. Anyone else experienced something similar?
post #1792 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

One other guestion guys. I found a shop that can do the repair for me.
I'm still learning a lot about amps in general, but I was wondering if it would be an asinine request to ask for a few upgrades when the repairs are done.
I just don't know if my requests would even be possible?
For instane, our Clones have been verified to be stable to around 2.8ohm. Would it be pointless for me to ask if anything can be done to get it stable down to 2ohm like the OEM LG? Also, would it be possible to have them install any type of protection mode (like an auto shut-off) to save my from frying my amp?
Would these request be possible and/or feasible?
been building my own amps for a few years now.

to answer your question no it's not feasible to do that kind modification to the design. not impossible, but not really feasible to do. sometimes just a simple swap of the output transistor/mosfet and you'll get the amp to stable at lower load but without knowing the design there's no way of telling how the output device are operating. you could find the datasheet of the output device and get a replacement that operate at higher voltage and are capable of handling higher current but sometimes the amp will go unstable through a circuit before the output device. and even if the amp is stable driving lower load (higher current), the circuit board (trace) might not be able to handle such high current and burn.

you need to do an extensive test after such modification to properly understand the result. such a hassle that it's easier to start with a design that's stable at lower load from the start. but still, not an impossible thing to do.
post #1793 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by paskal9 View Post

been building my own amps for a few years now.
to answer your question no it's not feasible to do that kind modification to the design. not impossible, but not really feasible to do. sometimes just a simple swap of the output transistor/mosfet and you'll get the amp to stable at lower load but without knowing the design there's no way of telling how the output device are operating. you could find the datasheet of the output device and get a replacement that operate at higher voltage and are capable of handling higher current but sometimes the amp will go unstable through a circuit before the output device. and even if the amp is stable driving lower load (higher current), the circuit board (trace) might not be able to handle such high current and burn.
you need to do an extensive test after such modification to properly understand the result. such a hassle that it's easier to start with a design that's stable at lower load from the start. but still, not an impossible thing to do.

So if I can get Sanway to provide me datasheet of the output device would that be a good start? I ask because if these modifications are possible for, let's say $300-400, it would behoove me to go this route. Especially if the amp shop is willing to warranty their work. Stability @ 2ohm = less components my wife will see = higher possibility of me negotiating 2 more subs... smile.gif

This shop specializes in amp "upgrades" so it seems as though they would be very efficient at verifying the impact of any mods.

I do understand they would need accurate data and (maybe)? a schematic of the amp architecture to start with, so I will see if Johnson can accomodate.
post #1794 of 4387
Thread Starter 
Get the idea out of your head, you would need to replace most of the transistors on the amp. Load the amps properly and there isn't a problem. You don't need as many amps as I'm running per sub, I like to over-engineer things. Also, just my $0.02 here, but you should buy or do whatever you want if it makes you happy without negatively impacting something else. If that is the case and you still get grief for it, something else is wrong.wink.gif If you require stable @ 2 ohms, buy a real LG. It only costs five times the price, but hey, it will have a warranty.
post #1795 of 4387
Understood.
post #1796 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

So if I can get Sanway to provide me datasheet of the output device would that be a good start? I ask because if these modifications are possible for, let's say $300-400, it would behoove me to go this route. Especially if the amp shop is willing to warranty their work. Stability @ 2ohm = less components my wife will see = higher possibility of me negotiating 2 more subs... smile.gif
This shop specializes in amp "upgrades" so it seems as though they would be very efficient at verifying the impact of any mods.
I do understand they would need accurate data and (maybe)? a schematic of the amp architecture to start with, so I will see if Johnson can accomodate.
at the current price that you guys are getting the amp for, i reckon it's better to just buy another unit. that is, if there's anymore reliability in them. looking at the current crop of problems that people are reporting i think it's best to look elsewhere.
post #1797 of 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by paskal9 View Post

at the current price that you guys are getting the amp for, i reckon it's better to just buy another unit. that is, if there's anymore reliability in them.

Not for me, it wouldn't. But yes, something entirely different (and reliable) as the first choice would be better.
post #1798 of 4387
Does anyone know what a "good" price is for B stock or used real LGs?

These junky amps really had me hooked 6 months ago but now looking for something different. I'm going to keep posting the failure rate tally that I started just to keep everyone aware of how these amps are taking a turn for the worse. I have a shop near me that will look at my faulty amp(it works but just not 100%) whenever I decide to pull it out of the rack but will either wait for QC issues to get straightened out or source something different.
post #1799 of 4387
The 14k's success rate is still good. The issues are with the 10q. I think people need to understand that. Also if any mods like a 220v cord or board are added, this is where other issues have been showing up.
post #1800 of 4387
So Keager/Papa modded the 14?
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