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Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 81

post #2401 of 4398
Quality pro amps sound just as good (just as transparent) as any high end consumer amp. I'm driving my two bi-amp'd electrostatic loudspeakers with a pair of QSC PLX2502 amps and they sound wonderful. Of course you have to deal with the balanced inputs but that's not a problem if you have a preamp with balanced outputs.biggrin.gif

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post #2402 of 4398
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by levyte357 View Post

I'm seriously considering FP13000.

Have pretty much read the entire thread, over the last few months, just need quick summary regarding any improvements on the units since August 2012.

Find it a little strange, people using high powered amps like these on home cinema systems.

IMHO, doesn't really qualify as a test of functionality.

Testing the amps in 4/2.66 ohm stereo, with 800W-1000W drivers, and bass heavy material, HPF=35hz, would be more relevant scenario for me, as
this is how I intend to use them.

This again? FP14000 or go home.

serious
post #2403 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

I came here with a lot of experience in the pro audio world.

Perhaps you're underestimating what it takes for reference level playback of the LFE spec (3hz-120hz), including all redirected bass management. Not too many fully grasp what a system is facing to achieve ref levels and cover the spec.

Hit 120dB plus peaks at the LP. Be mindful of the EL curves and audibility threshold of LF/ULF. Our hearing just does not stop at a certain point, it just requires much greater SPL to achieve audibility. Remember, loudness, and sound pressure are entirely different and frequency and level dependent.

About 20hz, 75dB is needed for audibility. At about 16Hz, 85dB is needed. At 10Hz, about 100dB SPL, and an octave lower at 5hz, audibility threshold is about 110dBSPL.

Consider a sub system with a given performance SPL level at a given frequency. Now, every octave lower requires a quadrupling of like powered drivers to maintain a certain dBSPL. This elevates system requirements incredibly, when merely attempting to cover the LFE spec at reference level. Thus, you see the high power 8 driver (on up) sub systems. Myself, I've got four 18s, four 15s. Add in LT EQ'ing, to properly shape the response of a small sealed box, the power requirement climb significantly.

High performance HT is another world from performance pro audio.

Thanks

Point taken.

Obviously, I'm nowhere near as serious about HT as you guys.

A JBL MPX1200 powering a 2x15" sub, and 4x satellites, is about as serious as I get with HT.. Probably sacrilege in these parts, but I have neighbors..

Joined this forum as this thread is "probably" the most informative on the web.. Cash is itching in the pockets, waiting to take plunge..

I'll be using the amp to provide sub for 400-600 people, at events with DJs, and absolutely cannot afford for sub to disappear, and be replaced with burning smell, and magic smoke escaping from the amp..

So I'll sit tight and monitor things for a little while longer.wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

This again? FP14000 or go home.

serious

Seeing as I'm a newbie here (but not on other forums wink.gif, care to explain that !?

Been a while since I read the complete thread, is there something relevant I missed?

IIRC, The FP14000 differs only in 2 ohm rating to the FP13000, and as we're talking Chinese cheapie here, would only be trusting that at 4 ohms on sub, with my very expensive 18" pro audio drivers.
Edited by levyte357 - 1/9/13 at 5:48pm
post #2404 of 4398
You'll be the guinea pig for the FP13000 and the price difference is likely negligible for a slightly less powerful amp.

Just buy the FP14000 we all know it works.

As far as this amp for home use? I don't use mine stricly for home theater use as it gets pretty good doses of music as well especially some weekends playing for 3-4 hours at full tilt. Thus far I've yet to have any issues and drives my 2 Ultra 5400s to pretty rediculous levels.
post #2405 of 4398
I am going to try my mains on my FP14k to see how it sounds compared to my Ada amp.
post #2406 of 4398
hmm got my fp10000q today, tested it out 2 channels at a time and seems to work ok, definitely not sunon fans, as loud or louder then my fp14000 that i received over a year ago.

atleast the power cable is proper now, 10awg i believe, old one version used 14 awg

current packaging consists of many layers of thin bubble wrap, covering the amplifier which is very inadequate, the rear part of my amplifier got mangled a bit. the older packaging was heavy cardboard, same as my behringer ep4000 packaging which was a ton better.

tried these with my yorkville u215 speakers, and while it adds some dynamics to my speakers, after listening for 15 mins, my ears were about to bleed from the how harsh my speakers sounded! although it might be the new cables i had and tried them with. but dang my ears were about to bleed.
Edited by ufokillerz - 1/9/13 at 11:24pm
post #2407 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan87 View Post

You'll be the guinea pig for the FP13000 and the price difference is likely negligible for a slightly less powerful amp.

Just buy the FP14000 we all know it works.

I see.. The mist clears...

Has anyone here used the FP14000 for "pro" audio use? E.g. powering 2x 1kw 18" drivers, per channel on sub, with HPF approx 38hz ?

For strong amplifiers like QSC PL380/QSC PL6.0, the above is walk in the park, for Chinese lightweights, could be little more demanding.
post #2408 of 4398
I've seen folks here with the LG clones do crazy things to poor LMS 5400s....one day I'll be able to do the same!
post #2409 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

..although it might be the new cables i had and tried them with..

Yeah that's probably it.

Seriously: a better solution would be to check your frequency response and/or overall volume.
post #2410 of 4398
Plan on using the FP14k in my new dedicated room. Designing the house plans now, figuring out how many circuits I need for the theater room. Can this amp run on a normal 20amp circuit or does it need more?
post #2411 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel 48 View Post

Plan on using the FP14k in my new dedicated room. Designing the house plans now, figuring out how many circuits I need for the theater room. Can this amp run on a normal 20amp circuit or does it need more?
plenty of people use them on 20amp circuits with no problems. although i do have a dedicated 20 amp circuit for it now.
unless your are playing a outdoor concert where you really crank it up, a normal 20 amp circuit will work fine.
post #2412 of 4398
Sweet, thanks for the response.
post #2413 of 4398
Hello there 357... When I first found this thread, I ordered an FP10K, and an FP14000 - which I was going to use on my personal band rig ( KF650 over yorkville TX-9 ( 2x18")) I tested both amps in my garage and I was really impressed with the output in comparison to the QSC PLX3402 I was using at the time. I was however concerned about the failure rates that were listed on here ( even though boht amps I got ran fine), I was concerned about longterm road use, so I sold them. I then decided from the price they were hard to beat, so I ordered 5 FP10K's for my bi-amp monitor kit, (Bi-amp EV XW15 + XW12) and orderded REAL lab gruppen 10Q's for my mains and subs. So far the clones have held up, although I received two out of box failure units out of 5 pieces.... 5 dead channels over two amps. I've since had them fixed, and I sold one. So I guess it would be up to your discression on if you want to buy the clones and risk the smoke show, or not... I am using the clones on monitors, and I have 2 real labs in case of clone faliure. I would say the output and tonanilty of clone vs real is on par, I haven;t done any scientific testing, but when I do I'll post it on youtube for everyone to check out. If i were you, I'd order 3 amps, one as a spare in case any of the others smoked, and you'd still be $1000 cheaper (or more) than buying just one real lab.

BTW - I don't know if it was me, or if I didn't bother setting them up the same, but I didn't feel the 14K has much more umph than the 10K did....
Edited by Heywood1969 - 1/10/13 at 10:29am
post #2414 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel 48 View Post

Plan on using the FP14k in my new dedicated room. Designing the house plans now, figuring out how many circuits I need for the theater room. Can this amp run on a normal 20amp circuit or does it need more?

I've powered up my clone on a 15amp before, just don't expect full output. I only needed half-output (at the time), and it worked fine. I wouldn't recommened doing what I did though (because you can burn down your house biggrin.gif )
In my new theater I'm in the process of building, all of this is since resolved. (I have it on a 30amp.)
post #2415 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywood1969 View Post

BTW - I don't know if it was me, or if I didn't bother setting them up the same, but I didn't feel the 14K has much more umph than the 10K did....

Uh oh... Say it ain't so. eek.gif I was placing future chips on it... If that's the case, I'll just stick with my Crown iTech 8k's (because I know those can.)
post #2416 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

To answer your question, 100v won't affect the clone. I have one clone I bought in the early days FP14000 @ 115v type (went with the real clones for my setup) and they work well on 100v mains. I believe they have a pretty wide range in regards to voltage.

These amps DO NOT like low line voltage when put under pressure.. Anything less and it will start to pop speakers unlike a QSC PL6 or PL380 that will play all night on less than stellar voltage with no audio artifacts..
post #2417 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by levyte357 View Post

I see.. The mist clears...

Has anyone here used the FP14000 for "pro" audio use? E.g. powering 2x 1kw 18" drivers, per channel on sub, with HPF approx 38hz ?

For strong amplifiers like QSC PL380/QSC PL6.0, the above is walk in the park, for Chinese lightweights, could be little more demanding.

I have two fp14ks used for testing. One powering 6 RCF LP300s and the other 6 TBX100 18 inch speakers. The only problem i have is venues that have inadequate power..
post #2418 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason kiDD View Post

I have two fp14ks used for testing. One powering 6 RCF LP300s and the other 6 TBX100 18 inch speakers. The only problem i have is venues that have inadequate power..

Ooh... That's my kinda' talk.

Did you perform any mods, before getting it this strong?

People are advising me to not buy unit till I get schematics, then upon unit arrival, take straight to good amp dude (before switching on or using in gig) for upgrades.

Are there any known mods absolutely required? Fan noise is least of my issues, TBH. rolleyes.gif
post #2419 of 4398
No mods just plugged in and put them to work. Only problem i ever have is tripping the 30amp breaker..cool.gif
post #2420 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason kiDD View Post

These amps DO NOT like low line voltage when put under pressure.. Anything less and it will start to pop speakers unlike a QSC PL6 or PL380 that will play all night on less than stellar voltage with no audio artifacts..
I Have pushed mine to its limits and have never experienced what you say.
I suppose it goes to show how much they differ even though they are the same.
post #2421 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

I Have pushed mine to its limits and have never experienced what you say.
I suppose it goes to show how much they differ even though they are the same.

I, on a regular basis, crank the crap out of my FP10000Q and have NEVER experienced any problems.
I, on a regular basis, crank it to just before the clip lights come on and could be playing music between 1-2 hours straight.

I have also tried to blast the music to try to get my breaker to pop and never did. this is connected on a 20amp circuit!
I really think if you get a good working unit that these are really worth the price and risk.

That's just me.
post #2422 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywood1969 View Post


BTW - I don't know if it was me, or if I didn't bother setting them up the same, but I didn't feel the 14K has much more umph than the 10K did....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Uh oh... Say it ain't so. eek.gif I was placing future chips on it... If that's the case, I'll just stick with my Crown iTech 8k's (because I know those can.)

The difference between the FB10 and FB14 is what, 3dB? You wouldn't normally expect to hear a big difference in 3dB unless there is more to the story.
post #2423 of 4398
Can anyone recall last Sanway manufacturing revisions to FP 14000 model ?

Except output devices, missing networking & monitoring, and possibly dubious copper heatsinks, what are the other differences from original LG FP14000?
post #2424 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

I Have pushed mine to its limits and have never experienced what you say.
I suppose it goes to show how much they differ even though they are the same.

Its the same for my other amps that crave voltage anything near 96v and they will start to produce audio artifacts or just go into protect mode.. Again this is only under low line voltage. Under normal means they will play all night long..
post #2425 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

I, on a regular basis, crank the crap out of my FP10000Q and have NEVER experienced any problems.
I, on a regular basis, crank it to just before the clip lights come on and could be playing music between 1-2 hours straight.

I have also tried to blast the music to try to get my breaker to pop and never did. this is connected on a 20amp circuit!
I really think if you get a good working unit that these are really worth the price and risk.

That's just me.

What type of music do you play, and what was the speaker load you had attached to the Amp, HPF setting?

I often play heavy Roots Reggae, with param eq boost 40-50Hz, HPF=37hz.

With the V&A metering on my 3PH distro, have seen QSC PL9.0 pull 17A@240V, powering 4x 1x18" Subs (4 ohm stereo). wink.gif
Edited by levyte357 - 1/11/13 at 12:01pm
post #2426 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by levyte357 View Post

What type of music do you play, and what was the speaker load you had attached to the Amp, HPF setting?

I often play heavy Roots Reggae, with param eq boost 40-50Hz, HPF=37hz.

With the V&A metering on my 3PH distro, have seen QSC PL9.0 pull 17A@240V, powering 4x 1x18" Subs (4 ohm stereo). wink.gif

I listen to psybient(Ambient) chill music...that's 98% of the music I listen to.
It is very bass hungry music...go to psychedelikdotcom (yes it's spelled right) and click on ambient 192KB stream to see what I'm talking about.

I have about 4000 songs (162GIGS) of FLAC of this kind of music!

I have my 10000Q bridged and connected to 2x 21's in series for a 8ohm load per channel.
The amp barely gets hot and that is blasting music for hours!

I love my 10000Q and wouldn't trade it for anything.
I have also eq'd my subs except I'm boosting the crap out of my low end
+7db on the 13hz, +5DB on the 22HZ, + 3DB on the 35HZ, +1DB on the 50HZ, -6BD on the 75HZ and -9DB on the 80HZ.

I like it this way.
post #2427 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason kiDD View Post

Its the same for my other amps that crave voltage anything near 96v and they will start to produce audio artifacts or just go into protect mode.. Again this is only under low line voltage. Under normal means they will play all night long..

When I used my clone, it was on a dedicated 30a breaker. I get between 97-103v @ the wall. Mine never went into protection mode even when running ULF test tones @ the amps limits. BTW I am talking about the clone 14000. I am not using the clone any more and just have it sitting in the rack right now.
post #2428 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

The difference between the FB10 and FB14 is what, 3dB? You wouldn't normally expect to hear a big difference in 3dB unless there is more to the story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

I have my 10000Q bridged and connected to 2x 21's in series for a 8ohm load per channel.
The amp barely gets hot and that is blasting music for hours!

I was gauging it off of the amount of excursion I was seeing and comparing it to the output LEDs.
Just for kicks I'll have to measure the SPL difference between two subs with an IT8k vs FP10kQ one of these days.

That's how I run mine, but I only had two subs hooked to it.
I just find it not quite loud enough for my tastes and a bit amp limited.

As you can see...
My iTech barely gets above it's -20db LED but the 10kQ is maxed out just short of VPL'ing (-4db or more).

It's loud... but not 4000watts loud, like the iTech is (and 14K probably is).
If I can pin it like that, then it is pretty obviously amp limiting my system.
When I push the 10kQ any further than this it starts distorting the music, so I'm fairly sure those channels are fully maxed out at the 4200watts into 8-ohm it's rated for.

post #2429 of 4398
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

When I used my clone, it was on a dedicated 30a breaker. I get between 97-103v @ the wall. Mine never went into protection mode even when running ULF test tones @ the amps limits. BTW I am talking about the clone 14000. I am not using the clone any more and just have it sitting in the rack right now.

That's a lot of voltage drop for a dedicated circuit. Sounds like the service there isn't so hot.
post #2430 of 4398
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post


I was gauging it off of the amount of excursion I was seeing and comparing it to the output LEDs.
Just for kicks I'll have to measure the SPL difference between two subs with an IT8k vs FP10kQ one of these days.

That's how I run mine, but I only had two subs hooked to it.
I just find it not quite loud enough for my tastes and a bit amp limited.

As you can see...
My iTech barely gets above it's -20db LED but the 10kQ is maxed out just short of VPL'ing (-4db or more).

It's loud... but not 4000watts loud, like the iTech is (and 14K probably is).
If I can pin it like that, then it is pretty obviously amp limiting my system.
When I push the 10kQ any further than this it starts distorting the music, so I'm fairly sure those channels are fully maxed out at the 4200watts into 8-ohm it's rated for.


Then there is something wrong with the Sanway or the ratings are bogus etc. The IT8K is ~3dB more than the bridged FB10k, which is twice as much power, but in terms of volume shouldn't be big difference. That's established fact, so something is wrong if there is a big difference between the two.

The -4dB LEDs represent ~1700W so if you're just tickling them you're not even to rated power.
Edited by whoaru99 - 1/11/13 at 8:24pm
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