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Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 133

post #3961 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

So, is the FP14000 clone bug free ? Whats the alphabet grade off the cuff on reliability (a,b,c,d,f). Customer service ? Price shipped to the EastCoast (NY)

Sanway claims a 2% failure rate now. It is almost impossible to verify the validity of the stated figure.
However, as long as they test prior to shipment the odds are in your favor.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #3962 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

So you sold your neos in anticipation of the new neos? Has Jeff given you any idea on price and timeline?

If I wasn't so OCD about the danley SH line right now I'd be truly interested in purchasing these. There is just something about the SH-64/SH-96 that has me reading everything related to them I can dig up at the moment. But will lose the 20hz capabilities of the JTR for 2ch listening but since I haven't listened in 2ch for quite some time its moot for me.

Timeline is end if March, early April. Price between 7000$-8000$ for the pair. I heard the SH50s and they were great but I didnt feel they were a step up, more of a side step.
I wasnt planning on selling the Noesis until late march but a local guy came over for an audition and wanted them, so It worked out good that It saves him money and I had a local sale and didnt have to ship them. I usually game later at night so not having to turn on all my amps for low level listening is a good thing in my case.
Ive got my crest and an extra fp14 as well as my D-Sonic 1000 x 7 , so I have lots of power lol.
post #3963 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

AVH you just need a Jericho L/R and a SH96HO for the center. Then you should be ok for extension and spl. I think. biggrin.gif

Hey, I'm not against it like others would be but I think I'd go with 3 jerichos for lcr if went that direction. If wouldn't have to sell an apartment for them I'd do it (screw the lack of smoothness compared to the SHs). I doubt my ears would be able to tell a difference in smoothness but then again I'd hate to hear it then have the true need to build a stadium style theater to get the most out of them. I've got a large piece of flat land right out back that could house a few thousand or so..... Lol.

I've been scouring all the pro sites and auctions for some large SHs.
post #3964 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Timeline is end if March, early April. Price between 7000$-8000$ for the pair. I heard the SH50s and they were great but I didnt feel they were a step up, more of a side step.
I wasnt planning on selling the Noesis until late march but a local guy came over for an audition and wanted them, so It worked out good that It saves him money and I had a local sale and didnt have to ship them. I usually game later at night so not having to turn on all my amps for low level listening is a good thing in my case.
Ive got my crest and an extra fp14 as well as my D-Sonic 1000 x 7 , so I have lots of power lol.

The neos were really on my mind for the upgrade until I started reading about the Danleys.

So, I'm thinking correctly about bypassing the smaller SH50s when compared to the neos in your experience with the two? There should be a big jump in sound going from the SH50 to the 64 and 96. I wonder how large of a jump they would be to the neo215 though. The sub 40-50hz output of the neo might make them "seem" like a better speaker when listening without subs but then again, I'll never be doing that. I game late at night on a small LCD with headphones. My KD is too important to game on a large screen. The lack of stereo headphones for the ps4/xbox one is getting old though. Should be here any day now. I can't believe none were released earlier.
post #3965 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

The neos were really on my mind for the upgrade until I started reading about the Danleys.

So, I'm thinking correctly about bypassing the smaller SH50s when compared to the neos in your experience with the two? There should be a big jump in sound going from the SH50 to the 64 and 96. I wonder how large of a jump they would be to the neo215 though. The sub 40-50hz output of the neo might make them "seem" like a better speaker when listening without subs but then again, I'll never be doing that. I game late at night on a small LCD with headphones. My KD is too important to game on a large screen. The lack of stereo headphones for the ps4/xbox one is getting old though. Should be here any day now. I can't believe none were released earlier.

Dude, they are called Noesis!!!

Sorry AVH, I've seen you call them 'Neos' a few times previous and thought about pointing out they weren't 'Neosis', but you just short-circuited my OCD after reading that last post...it had to be done. biggrin.gif
post #3966 of 4389
Quote:
here should be a big jump in sound going from the SH50 to the 64 and 96

What makes you think that? Even Tom Danley still considers the sh50 as the flagship of the line and the most refined design biggrin.gif
post #3967 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

There should be a big jump in sound going from the SH50 to the 64 and 96.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

What makes you think that? Even Tom Danley still considers the sh50 as the flagship of the line and the most refined design biggrin.gif

Big jump in output, yes; sound quality, no.

I know you said you have lost some of your hearing capability from the years of car audio, but if 133 dB can't get it done you may be in trouble... smile.gif
post #3968 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

Dude, they are called Noesis!!!

Sorry AVH, I've seen you call them 'Neos' a few times previous and thought about pointing out they weren't 'Neosis', but you just short-circuited my OCD after reading that last post...it had to be done. biggrin.gif

Lol. I know how they are spelled. Glad I don't have OCD or "their" would be many corrections on such things as there.

I guess I'm stuck in the matrix or something.

Maybe I'm the only one that types it like that. Maybe more will follow kinda like the maelstrom became the Mal.
Edited by audiovideoholic - 2/18/14 at 3:45pm
post #3969 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

What makes you think that? Even Tom Danley still considers the sh50 as the flagship of the line and the most refined design biggrin.gif

"Sound" not Sound Quality. I've read where more than one person said the smaller SH and molded models sounded better than even the SH50 but that's just what I've read.
post #3970 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post


Big jump in output, yes; sound quality, no.

I know you said you have lost some of your hearing capability from the years of car audio, but if 133 dB can't get it done you may be in trouble... smile.gif

Well what are JTR tr 8? 129db. That is most likely at what 80-90hz? I am guessing the larger 64 and 96ho will have that capability throughout any FR range, no? And the sh50 wouldn't be near as loud from say 100hz and up? I'm just guessing totally here but think am on right track.

Yea my hearing is extremely awful. Its gotten worse in the past year. Ruptured eardrum in right ear and left is is about to rupture. My wife wants me to go back to my ear nose throat specialist (her coworker) and have permanent tubes put in but I really am procrastinating.

Edit
After some brief googling I'm still lost about a loudspeaker's max spl.

Where in general in the frequency response is this calculated? I first thought it would be in the bass drivers but saw some max spl measurements that showed it was in the CD or horn frequencies (2k-3khz). Would a max spl rating of speakers like jtr, danley, seaton, etc that use pro high mm bass drivers still be in the CD/horn or the bass driver FR?
Edited by audiovideoholic - 2/18/14 at 5:31pm
post #3971 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

"Sound" not Sound Quality. I've read where more than one person said the smaller SH and molded models sounded better than even the SH50 but that's just what I've read.

AH, the sm models. I had the sm60f's before the sh50's. They are no doubt some absolutely incredible speakers for the price, and I am interested in Tom's upcoming design he is going to release that caters more towards the HT environment. Be on the lookout. They are smoothing the response a little more, and tapering the top-end some which is traditionally preferred outside of pro audio applications.

With that said, the SH50;s absolutely blow my mind. I love em. in the same room as the sm60f's in the same place, they are more refined and overall I get a better soundstage but really, it is picking at hairs even for the most discerning listener. Sound stage is paramount for me, so I would consider the move an incredible upgrade personally, but YMMV smile.gif
post #3972 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

AH, the sm models. I had the sm60f's before the sh50's. They are no doubt some absolutely incredible speakers for the price, and I am interested in Tom's upcoming design he is going to release that caters more towards the HT environment. Be on the lookout. They are smoothing the response a little more, and tapering the top-end some which is traditionally preferred outside of pro audio applications.

With that said, the SH50;s absolutely blow my mind. I love em. in the same room as the sm60f's in the same place, they are more refined and overall I get a better soundstage but really, it is picking at hairs even for the most discerning listener. Sound stage is paramount for me, so I would consider the move an incredible upgrade personally, but YMMV smile.gif

Yea, I think I've read every post you've typed that you mentioned either speaker. And some of the posts I've read from others were pro audio guys that liked the smaller speakers sound over the 50s. I'm sure it would be hard to tell the difference when running with subs between many of his designs.
post #3973 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Yea, I think I've read every post you've typed that you mentioned either speaker. And some of the posts I've read from others were pro audio guys that liked the smaller speakers sound over the 50s. I'm sure it would be hard to tell the difference when running with subs between many of his designs.

Agreed. With both, I get a killer response at the LP with zero EQ. It can be refined more certainly, but just the native response of either have been the best by a long shot I have experienced in my space, mostly due to pattern control so far down the spectrum methinks. You'll get that with any synergy design, and in many parts, even the older unity design found in the Yorkville Unity series. The U215, while pretty ugly are crazy impressive for their price point.
post #3974 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Well what are JTR tr 8? 129db. That is most likely at what 80-90hz? I am guessing the larger 64 and 96ho will have that capability throughout any FR range, no? And the sh50 wouldn't be near as loud from say 100hz and up? I'm just guessing totally here but think am on right track.

Yea my hearing is extremely awful. Its gotten worse in the past year. Ruptured eardrum in right ear and left is is about to rupture. My wife wants me to go back to my ear nose throat specialist (her coworker) and have permanent tubes put in but I really am procrastinating.

Edit
After some brief googling I'm still lost about a loudspeaker's max spl.

Where in general in the frequency response is this calculated? I first thought it would be in the bass drivers but saw some max spl measurements that showed it was in the CD or horn frequencies (2k-3khz). Would a max spl rating of speakers like jtr, danley, seaton, etc that use pro high mm bass drivers still be in the CD/horn or the bass driver FR?

That would be horrible to have your hearing in that kind of shape with audio as a hobby...I wish you the best on that.

As to how Max Spl is rated, I haven't done much homework into that, but from what I can tell it's based on where the cabinet is loudest. Of course a smart design will have a good balance. I have a pair of Tannoy VQ60's (active cabs with the BMS 4592 coax compression driver and a pair of semi horn-loaded BMS 12's); this is how Tannoy rates them:

Rated Maximum SPL: Average, Peak

LF: 135dB, 141dB
MF: 138dB, 144dB
HF: 135dB, 141dB
Passive MF/HF: 138dB, 144dB

They seem to up-rate the system to what the midrange compression driver is capable of (118 dB sensitivity on that sucker!).
post #3975 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

That would be horrible to have your hearing in that kind of shape with audio as a hobby...I wish you the best on that.

As to how Max Spl is rated, I haven't done much homework into that, but from what I can tell it's based on where the cabinet is loudest. Of course a smart design will have a good balance. I have a pair of Tannoy VQ60's (active cabs with the BMS 4592 coax compression driver and a pair of semi horn-loaded BMS 12's); this is how Tannoy rates them:

Rated Maximum SPL: Average, Peak

LF: 135dB, 141dB
MF: 138dB, 144dB
HF: 135dB, 141dB
Passive MF/HF: 138dB, 144dB

They seem to up-rate the system to what the midrange compression driver is capable of (118 dB sensitivity on that sucker!).

That's right up the alley of a thread I just started. Info like that is what I'm searching for!

Yea, it sucks! But was16-18yrs old and breaking all kinds of records while enjoying every minute of it! There weren't very many unwelded blazers in the world that had what I did. It was like, hey I'm mr attention grabber that has something 90% of the car audio enthusiasts have never seen or heard. No matter where I went within multiple counties people were ready for a seat experience. Kinda hard to describe really. I was always building systems for friends in my town and then when I gotta huge chunk of inheritance the first place I went was to my friends car audio shop for a quote, "build me something louder than you've ever built but I want it to sound as good as it is loud." He gave me a sponsorship to do it as long as I showed up where he wanted me to be at comps. Literally was a teenager's dream come true.

Now, I only listen in moderation but still push my crumby eardrums regularly. Its done now and no going back so still enjoy my loud @ss hobby for shorter periods of time. I really can't do anymore damage than is already done unless really try to.
post #3976 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

That would be horrible to have your hearing in that kind of shape with audio as a hobby...I wish you the best on that.

As to how Max Spl is rated, I haven't done much homework into that, but from what I can tell it's based on where the cabinet is loudest. Of course a smart design will have a good balance. I have a pair of Tannoy VQ60's (active cabs with the BMS 4592 coax compression driver and a pair of semi horn-loaded BMS 12's); this is how Tannoy rates them:

Rated Maximum SPL: Average, Peak

LF: 135dB, 141dB
MF: 138dB, 144dB
HF: 135dB, 141dB
Passive MF/HF: 138dB, 144dB

They seem to up-rate the system to what the midrange compression driver is capable of (118 dB sensitivity on that sucker!).

Wow Aaron, I've noticed your avatar on several occasions, but never got around to inquiring what speaker that was. Pretty damn serious! Here is the cut sheet for any one interested. Given their -3db point is 115Hz, where do you cross your subs at?

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

That's right up the alley of a thread I just started. Info like that is what I'm searching for!

Yea, it sucks! But was16-18yrs old and breaking all kinds of records while enjoying every minute of it! There weren't very many unwelded blazers in the world that had what I did. It was like, hey I'm mr attention grabber that has something 90% of the car audio enthusiasts have never seen or heard. No matter where I went within multiple counties people were ready for a seat experience. Kinda hard to describe really. I was always building systems for friends in my town and then when I gotta huge chunk of inheritance the first place I went was to my friends car audio shop for a quote, "build me something louder than you've ever built but I want it to sound as good as it is loud." He gave me a sponsorship to do it as long as I showed up where he wanted me to be at comps. Literally was a teenager's dream come true.

Now, I only listen in moderation but still push my crumby eardrums regularly. Its done now and no going back so still enjoy my loud @ss hobby for shorter periods of time. I really can't do anymore damage than is already done unless really try to.

Well sir, now that I have the context, I see why your aholic suffix preceeds you...

What terrirotory were you approching back in the car audio days? 160db+ @ 50Hz or so? Rough guess? Cool to know that is wasn't one of those "one note wonders" and you actually cared how it sounded on a daily basis. True teenager's dream indeed!

Man, I got a taste of the Obsidian Audio CRX which TL'd at 149.5db at the dash from 20-60Hz (IIRC) and about passed out...lol. I'd need about 48 more SI 18's in my room to get to that level...first time I can truly say that I was uncomfortable from a bass shower...obviously my exposure to extremely SPL cars is limited compared to some.

Cheers man, keep rocking...there is always a Plan B out there.

biggrin.gif
post #3977 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Here is a quick snapshot of my Pioneer SC-57 vs FP10KQ running my Klipsch RF-7II's (which have been known to dip down to 4ohm when running full range)



The graph shows a very slight difference throughout the FR, but to be honest, I attribute that to my influence in the room as any small shift in body position would cause the FR to change...

Notice that I was approaching 115db at the mic down near 40Hz, so I was pushing my speakers pretty hard while running sweeps. Playing back music at the same levels (and in some cases even higher) I was not able to detect any audible difference from my mains...even running a full range signal. I have to also note that I was using NathanJ's speaker switcher, so I was able to switch between amp and AVR instantly...with no pause in playback. Made it very very easy to compare amp vs no amp.

Much appreciated...from a FR perspective - looks like it handles the highs just fine.

Any updated opinions on reliability of the 10000Q? I've been going back and forth with Johnson and he assures me that each one is tested prior to being sent out. Also, he mentioned a new HT fan setup whereby the fans don't even come on until 85 degrees centigrade is reached and then shut off at 50 degrees centigrade.

-Jim
post #3978 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Wow Aaron, I've noticed your avatar on several occasions, but never got around to inquiring what speaker that was. Pretty damn serious! Here is the cut sheet for any one interested. Given their -3db point is 115Hz, where do you cross your subs at?

They are kind of serious and would be full-on retarded to run permanently in any room of my house. I've only played them in my 30'x26' family room for about 20 minutes and yes, they can slightly overload the room. They are the 'NET LIVE' models with internal Lab Gruppen power and full DSP (both Lab and Tannoy are owned by the TC Group). Why do I have them? Because I fell in love with Tannoy gear the first time I heard it, and more importantly, have a head full of bad wiring! biggrin.gif I've mentioned a few times in the past couple years that I was considering cloning them; an opportunity presented itself for these and the old saying of "what the phuck" seemed like the best way to handle the temptation at the time. smile.gif They are a REAL beeotch to move though at 190 lbs. per, which doesn't work that well with my solitary audio hobby.

The longer term plan is to build a 4-pack of horn subs to go underneath each one and throw down righteous EDM tunes to groups of 500 or so in exchange for money. Right now, primarily because there is this giant stack of 10 LAB15's that has been sitting here unmolested for a few years, I'm leaning towards Lilmike's Microwrecker -- which is quite similar to a Danley TH-50 but will reach smoothly up to 160 Hz before encountering a big dip like the TH-50 has at a much lower point -- I can't find a curve sheet for the discontinued TH-50 and don't remember exactly where it's resonances start to get out of control, but it's upper -3dB point is only 70 Hz. 4 Micro's per side should be good to about 140 dB at 20 Hz, and mesh up well with the VQ's upper -3dB point. A pair of Othorns under each one would probably make more sense though (2 less cabs with the same output and about 5 Hz less extension), so I may sell the LAB15's and go that route.
post #3979 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Wow Aaron, I've noticed your avatar on several occasions, but never got around to inquiring what speaker that was. Pretty damn serious! Here is the cut sheet for any one interested. Given their -3db point is 115Hz, where do you cross your subs at?
Well sir, now that I have the context, I see why your aholic suffix preceeds you...

What terrirotory were you approching back in the car audio days? 160db+ @ 50Hz or so? Rough guess? Cool to know that is wasn't one of those "one note wonders" and you actually cared how it sounded on a daily basis. True teenager's dream indeed!

Man, I got a taste of the Obsidian Audio CRX which TL'd at 149.5db at the dash from 20-60Hz (IIRC) and about passed out...lol. I'd need about 48 more SI 18's in my room to get to that level...first time I can truly say that I was uncomfortable from a bass shower...obviously my exposure to extremely SPL cars is limited compared to some.

Cheers man, keep rocking...there is always a Plan B out there.

biggrin.gif

Yeah I was just a kid and enjoyed riding and pounding among other things so when I got some money went to dealership bought 4x4 4 door jimmy, put a lift on it with 32s then pulled it into audio shop garage a couple weeks later.

Was a double upside down "V" wall with 8 15s with the back seats still there. The back v had 4 total subs 2 high left and right and then another identical v in front of it.

Its unintended tune (enclosure was space limited obviously) 43hz but was rather smooth from 40-65 and not down hardly at all beyond that according to shop's meter on dash.

Western KY Non pro 501-1000 watts class running 1 ohms 155.3 was highest I recorded on dash with windows up I believe and think engine rev was limited to 1500 rpm (not sure on rev number but it was low).
post #3980 of 4389
Not to derail the car bass competition discussion, but in addition to the latest on overall "lasting" quality of the 10000Q, is there any hiss that comes through on high sensitivity speakers?

Thanks
Jim
post #3981 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdubs View Post

Not to derail the car bass competition discussion, but in addition to the latest on overall "lasting" quality of the 10000Q, is there any hiss that comes through on high sensitivity speakers?

Thanks
Jim

2 years 2 amps no probs. Older units seem to vary but supposedly they have eliminated most of the problems recently.

Can't share on noise though, sorry.
post #3982 of 4389
Is this Jdubs from DIYaudio?
post #3983 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdubs View Post

Not to derail the car bass competition discussion, but in addition to the latest on overall "lasting" quality of the 10000Q, is there any hiss that comes through on high sensitivity speakers?

Thanks
Jim

some on my fp1400 but i had it hooked to a 110db cd i think anything below 100 would be inaudible
post #3984 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Is this Jdubs from DIYaudio?

That's me!

-Jim
post #3985 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

some on my fp1400 but i had it hooked to a 110db cd i think anything below 100 would be inaudible

Good to hear...thanks!

-Jim
post #3986 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

some on my fp1400 but i had it hooked to a 110db cd i think anything below 100 would be inaudible

Lol....just to do it?
post #3987 of 4389

Anyone here got any experience running a Sanway FP10000Q with a 2.66 ohm load?

I'm planning on running one with 2.66ohm load on each channel. I dont plan on pushing it too hard, probably only around the 70% mark for the most part.

Would this be asking too much from it do you think?

post #3988 of 4389
Right now I'm using ch 1 and 3 with a 6.8ohm load and channel 2 and 4 with a 2.8ohm load and have had no problems at all.
I play my movies LOUD!
post #3989 of 4389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeys View Post

Anyone here got any experience running a Sanway FP10000Q with a 2.66 ohm load?


I'm planning on running one with 2.66ohm load on each channel. I dont plan on pushing it too hard, probably only around the 70% mark for the most part.


Would this be asking too much from it do you think?

Going a few years strong without any major issues.. On both my amps..
post #3990 of 4389
I have been running the 10q at 4 ohm with no problems. I did try it on my main speakers and the sound quality was a bit disappointing. Better for subs, that's for sure.
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