The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 349

Problem solved! I turned off Viera Link on the TV (and BRD) and have no problem anymore.

Previously, the issue seemed to be that the last device to handshake with the source took the audio, so I needs turn the tv and source in first, wait for it to finish connecting and then and only then turn on the AVR. The Harmony turned them on in quick succession (switching the order had no observable effect actually), resulting in the TV's handshake **** blocking the AVR, to be crude. Turning off VIERA Link seems to solve it for both devices. Now, to test the Xbox...

I'm loving my harmony 650 btw. Can't believe I waited this long...

Getting everything set up and fine-tuned just so can be a PITA sometimes, but once a Harmony remote has been customized just the way you like it, there's nothing better out there.

There are a lot of factors involved for a short explanation, so I'll give you the long, boring one. A compact subwoofer is usually much less efficient than a large one, all else equal. Different quality subwoofer designs can be much more efficient than other designs, not necessarily related to the price or quality of the subwoofer. Having a sub in the corner is usually more efficient than in the center of a room. Similarly, a large room will need more bass output than a small room to give the same perceived bass volume. So, 10W might be plenty for a large, efficient sub in the corner of a small room. Even though it may be rated to 200W or 400W, you may rarely use even a small fraction of that, depending on your tastes.

On the other hand, if you like extra bass, 400W might not be enough for a less efficient, smaller sub on the center of a wall in a large room. Generally, getting double the perceived volume requires 10x the amplifier output power. Knowing that, you can eat up power ratings pretty quickly. It's usually much easier to get loudness by getting an efficient subwoofer design and placing it near a corner;-) Another thing to consider is that having extra power is never a bad thing. Even if you only listen at modest levels, perhaps there is a passage with a lot of low bass that might require a peak level much higher than the average. That's even more the case if you have a true subwoofer that can reproduce well below 40Hz, for those cannons in the 1812 Overture or Master and Commander or some other movie with lots of explosions or something.

Plus, the terms gain and volume are very confusing because they can deal with references to a voltage level or to a power level, which are not the same. Sometimes the terms refer to controls that linear or logarithmic that affect the feel of the adjustment, further adding to the confusion. In the end, it doesn't matter much if you can get the level on your Denon and your sub such that you get well matched bass output (or whatever your preference is).

The sad part of all of this is that what you'd like to know about a sub, the maximum sound pressure level output at every frequency, is rarely published in specifications or reviews. That's what you need to combine that power rating and the subwoofer design's efficiency and let you know how loud it actually can play to compare to other subs. S&V mag usually publishes this, but few others do.

Otherwise, the only consideration between the gain from the subwoofer output on your Denon and the gain within the subwoofer is how it is corrected by the Audyssey system. If not for that issue, it really wouldn't matter much how you had the settings on your Denon or sub adjusted. Whether one was high and the other low or both about the same, you'd end up with it adjusted to get the right amount of bass. If you want the auto-setup to adjust it, having the subwoofer adjusted mid-way may help from what I've read here. That's probably because it is a feedback loop through the microphone. Having less gain outside the Denon unit may make it easier to compensate. Just a guess.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm actually getting good results by making sure that the AVR is unplugged (from the AC wall outlet) when the satellite box goes to make its daily update at 3:00 a.m. I think I'm going to put a timer on the AC outlet to make this isolation automatic, and call the problem "solved." It isn't the most elegant work-around, but maybe I can live with it until I update the satellite system.

Thanks again,

Hal

I don't think that's my problem / solution.

Basically, as far as I've read up on my STB, it won't output Component when it detects an HDMI source on the other end. The way(s) to get it output component are to either A) physically unplug the HDMI (bad option) or b) De-Assign HDMI3 on the Denon from any inputs... which makes the cable box think there's nothing connected on the other end.

For some reason (possibly to prevent handshake issues), the Denon seems to be "holding" a connection to the cable box even when on a different input. Does anyone know of a way to disable this functionality? so that when the Denon switches to an input (like BD, or Net/USB), it completely drops the HDMI connection as it does when you actually de-assign it?


The problem with that is that I would then lose the OSD when watching TV via HDMI. It also causes a headache when it comes to changing inputs as I'd have to program a completely different set of activities on the remote.

Sure, but what would you really miss without the OSD? Isn't that what a programmable remote is for?

No way to dis-able Hdmi except to set it to none.

If it works when it is de-assign another words set Hdmi to None, problem solved that should be a reasonable solution since your cable box will not output both. Just set component - rca 2 (if that is the one you chose) to the input your Cable box is on and toggle off (Hdmi none) when you want video to your Net/Usb and don't forget to turn it back on when your done. Also remember to set Video Select to Sat/Cable while in Net/Usb.

Jdsmoothie, why do you now recommend to get the final trim value closer to -3db? I could have sworn I had asked this question quite a while back. My final trim value was -6db and I was told (by you I believe) that re-running Auto Setup again to try and get it closer to 0db served no purpose and that as long as it was greater than -12db that it would be fine.

Ordered a 2112CI from EE via Amazon for a ridiculous price last night... should be here tomorrow

Replacing an Onkyo 607, and it'll be nice to finally have all 6 HDMIs in the rear, rather than 5 rear/1 front. Looking forward to the network configuration utility!

Hi Hal;

I doubt that the Dish Network update is playing hanky panky with your avr. If you could tell us exactly what the problem is and on what sources and about how frequent it happens that would help out.

It's not an exact science ... -6db is fine ... as long as it's < -10db you're good to go. -3db simply provides more room to lower the volume if necessary; however, most folks end up raising the volume a few db after running AUTO SETUP.

Yeah the problem is semi-solved... it's still far less than ideal to have to go into the menu every time to get the Cable video with Radio audio.... but if there's no way to change how the Denon handles inputs that aren't active, then the only other workaround seems to be an HDMI splitter, fed into a HDMI->Component converter... which sounds like a mega-pita.

Hi jfriedmann, call your cable company and see if they offer a different STB that can output both.

This is my first post here and I have found this site and the info here very usefull.
I recently purchased the 3312ci av receiver. After a few problems with hand shaking some devices that I have, Everything is working except that I am un able to figure out how to connect the Wii game console.
Could someone Please explain home to connect the game console using component(blue,green,red,-red, white)cables.

Hi QMAO, connect the Wii video cable to Component In 1 (DVD) and Wii audio cables to Audio (DVD). Go into Input Assign menu and set HDMI as "None", Digital as "None" and Component as "COMP-1".

Trying to figure out my setup on the 2112CI I recently received. I had a defective unit the first time round and had to exchange it. This setup worked on the original unit for audio. My setup is a 5.1 family room with 6 and 7 in the kitchen setup to be Zone 2. These speakers go to a volume control in the kitchen since I also have the RCA out for Zone 2 running to the basement to control the other rooms in the house that have speakers.

Previously, I had the Amp setup to power 6 and 7 in the kitchen using Zone 2. However, with the new receiver, no audio is coming out over the speakers when I turn on Zone 2. Instead of running it as a separate zone, to test the speakers, I made them part of a 7.1 system instead and audio played over the speakers at that point. I feel like I'm missing something for the Zone 2 out and I haven't started playing with the RCA output and the rest of the house yet as I want to make sure I can get the basic setup first. Anyone have any ideas for getting audio out of Zone 2? My only inputs are currently Sat/Cbl and BD (which is an AppleTV).

I did try resetting the microprocessor to see if that would help and it did not.

Thanks!

^^
In order to pass audio from the SAT/CBL and BD sources to Zone 2, you must also connect an analog RCA (red/white) cable from them to the AVR (in addition to the HDMI cable), otherwise the only sources that will pass to Zone 2 are the on board sources (Tuner, NET, Airplay). If you have an ATV2, you'll need an optical-->analog converter. If you will always be playing the same audio in the kitchen as in the main zone, try setting AMP ASSIGN to "Front B" instead of "Zone 2".

^^^
Thanks JD! I read that Zone 2 section of the setup guide twelve times I think but didn't pay attention to the words obviously. After reading your post, I went back and looked at it again and I see it all so clearly now I was not paying too much attention because previously, I had Sat/Cbl working to Zone 2 and I didn't have my ATV3 yet. What I forgot was that the Uverse guy setup the receiver with a component cable and not HDMI (which I'm using now). So because it was coming in analog, it went to Zone 2.

Thanks!

Hi, this is my first post here!

I just unboxed an avr 1912, and I'm having problem with the directv HD DVR HR22. The thing is I don't get video/audio signal to my panasonic GT30 when connecting the DVR in some of the HDMI Inputs, it only works when I connect it to the GAME2 input, I have used two differents HDMI cables, and only get AV from the GAME2 input.

Could be handshake problems only with some HDMI Inputs? or if there is handshake problems should be with all the HDMI inputs?

I've tested the DVR in these inputs with no possitive results: DVD, SAT/CBL, GAME1, TV, V. AUX, BD.

There is no defective HDMI Inputs, since I've tested PS3 and BD player in all HDMI Inputs and they work fine.

Please give me a hand here!

I am considering a 1712 too replace my Onkyo 606. I know I can get a good price if I call J&R. Has anyone bought a receiver on Ebay that is ?Manufacturer refurbished"? Saves about $70.00, just wondered if it's worth the gamble.

Also have a question about home audio distribution, and best way to handle it (with a 1712). I am buying a new house that is prewired with ceiling speakers "everywhere" (living room, Bed, Bath, and outdoors). I was planning on using Zone 2 for outdoors. What's the best way to pipe music to all other speakers (not outdoors)? Do I need a Zone 3?

Thank you for the reply.

I'm wondering...since I'm only planning a 2.1 system, will the Denon 1612 or 1712 be well suited for a 2.1 setup? In the online manual, it states something like: if using a 2.1 system,the receiver will decode the mutichannel system into 2.1. Will this obfuscate the sound at all? Would there be a better receiver to get for just the 2.1 system?
Thank you, Steve

!. Yes

2. Another Yes.

Welcome to the forum;

If you haven't already check out page 1 of this forum where there is a ton of facts and tips.


As you found out the Hdmi protocol is a fickel animal. Both Sat/Cable and Computer sources can sometimes play havoc with any brand of avr.

You also found out that different sources, ports, both avr and tv, can all react differently and cause handshake issues. You are fortunate that although it does not react positively with DVR input it does work with Game 2 as some boxes need to be hooked up to the Tv with and optical to the the avr as the hdpc protocol will not play nicely with the avr.

You can assign the Game input to DVR in the Input Assign section of the menu so all is not lost.

Yes definitely the 1712 will sound better with the more advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT that will dial in your sub for superior SQ even for 2.1. In the end you will have to decide whether that is worth it for your needs and budget compared to the 1612.

Thanks for the reply, Spager.

The symptom I was having (intermittently) was that there was (apparently) no video signal output from the AVR to the television when the AVR was in Net/USB mode. System would recover to normal operation by executing a microprocessor reset. Because I access the Net/USB function only occasionally, it took me awhile to realize that there was/is a temporal pattern to the malfunction, in that I could turn off the normally function system to go to bed at night, and wake up the next morning to a malfunctioning system. Whether it is the 3:00 am update, or some other weirdness, it only happens when the satellite box is plugged into the AVR. The fault doesn't develop when the AVR is left stand alone (also connected to the TV) or is connected to the Blu-Ray player (and the TV). I posted again yesterday, as I am getting good results by simply unplugging the AVR from the 120 V wall outlet every night. It seems that taking the unit down to a zero power state (as opposed to just the normal warm standby state) is enough to isolate it from the bad effects of whatever is happening overnight. Going to put a timer on the 120 V wall outlet this weekend, in order to automate the isolation process. I'll loop back into this discussion forum if this solution doesn't end up working.

Again, thanks for thinking about my situation.

Hal

^

If you are in the 30 day period you could just swap it out. Really make sense if you bought locally but even the online resellers should do this with no shipping but you will have to ask as some may require you to pay shipping to their facility.

If not within the 30 day call Denon support and they may advise you to send it in for service as it is a known issue.

I am also contemplating whether to by new or refurb 1712.
ecost.com has the best price on refurb (but is non returnable I guess).
Of course not too far away from what J&R will offer as new..

Thank you for your answer!

Finally I gave up... as you mentioned I got lucky that it worked with game2 input, and also with v. aux. input so I gave up and assigned the hdmi5 (default game2) to sat/cbl input.

Ok. So I'm at the point where I'm asking the internet.

My old onkyo 607 accepted my nvidia gtx 580 with no configuration changes to the input it was connected to.

I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the denon 1712 to work with my pc. Anybody else have similar issues?

Thanks