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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 381

post #11401 of 17928
4/29/12 at 7:39pm
^^
I summarize the information members posting in this thread have received from Denon CSRs as well as information I have received from my contacts at Denon.
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post #11402 of 17928
4/29/12 at 8:07pm
hey all-

I've been thinking about getting a new Denon to replace my current 2808CI, and I just noticed that Amazon just slashed the price of the 2312CI from the list ($849) to $599. When I checked last night, the price was $849! Glad I slept on it!

The 2112CI is currently at $470, down from $649 list.

Apologies if one is not supposed to talk about price on this particular board, it's just that I figured folks who were thinking about 'em would be interested to know of this very recent price drop..

mike
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post #11403 of 17928
4/29/12 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct. Currently the sub gain is too strong so you must lower it's gain/volume such that the AVR can calibrate it to the 75db test tone.



Yes, it's very possible that with the AVR able to put out a stronger signal, will indeed resolve your current issue.

ok, by turning the gain down to about 20% it finally registered as -7.5db in audessy. I will see what happens now. After setup I upped it to -6.5db
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post #11404 of 17928
4/29/12 at 10:24pm
Well, after much deliberation, I finally settled on a 3312CI from Electronics Expo (Best price I could find). I'm excited to finally join the family after having read nearly this entire thread. Between JD and Batpig I don't think there's any question I could have that could go unanswered. They should really pay you guys.
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post #11405 of 17928
4/30/12 at 4:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitznFish View Post

ok, by turning the gain down to about 20% it finally registered as -7.5db in audessy. I will see what happens now. After setup I upped it to -6.5db

That's okay ... after running AUTO SETUP, you can raise the sub channel level via the remote up a few db to suit your preference.
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post #11406 of 17928
4/30/12 at 5:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikemomo View Post

hey all-

I've been thinking about getting a new Denon to replace my current 2808CI, and I just noticed that Amazon just slashed the price of the 2312CI from the list ($849) to $599. When I checked last night, the price was $849! Glad I slept on it!

The 2112CI is currently at $470, down from $649 list.

Apologies if one is not supposed to talk about price on this particular board, it's just that I figured folks who were thinking about 'em would be interested to know of this very recent price drop..

mike

May I ask what you are looking to get out of the 2312 that you didn't get from the 2808ci. Also I would like to hear what you think soundwise between the two after you get it.
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post #11407 of 17928
4/30/12 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitznFish View Post


ok, by turning the gain down to about 20% it finally registered as -7.5db in audessy. I will see what happens now. After setup I upped it to -6.5db


Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post


That's okay ... after running AUTO SETUP, you can raise the sub channel level via the remote up a few db to suit your preference.

Auddessy in my 889 set my Polk PSW10 to 0dB. I was thinking of dropping it by a dB or two but it does sound good. I know the PSW10 doesn't get any respect in these parts but it works pretty well for me..
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post #11408 of 17928
4/30/12 at 7:15am
In my Denon AVR 1912 my Infinity speakers model Alpha 50's are set as Large, Center 37c and Surround 20's are set as Small. In the 1912 the crossover frequency is set at 80Hz. The 1912's Bass Setting Subwoofer Mode is LFE+Main, LPF for LFE is 150Hz (default).

My Velodyne VRP1000 subwoofer Lowpass Crossover Frequency is set at 80Hz, Phase setting at 0 (other choice is 180), Volume setting at midpoint.

Since I have no idea as to the correct setting placement please help me adjust these properly.

All comments greatly appreciated
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post #11409 of 17928
4/30/12 at 9:25am
Thread Starter 
^^^ @49Merc: read through the Audyssey section of my FAQ, all your questions are already answered http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audyssey
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post #11410 of 17928
4/30/12 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post

In my Denon AVR 1912 my Infinity speakers model Alpha 50's are set as Large, Center 37c and Surround 20's are set as Small. In the 1912 the crossover frequency is set at 80Hz. The 1912's Bass Setting Subwoofer Mode is LFE+Main, LPF for LFE is 150Hz (default).

My Velodyne VRP1000 subwoofer Lowpass Crossover Frequency is set at 80Hz, Phase setting at 0 (other choice is 180), Volume setting at midpoint.

Since I have no idea as to the correct setting placement please help me adjust these properly.

All comments greatly appreciated

Follow the Auddessey Set-up instructions at the beginning of this thread.
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post #11411 of 17928
4/30/12 at 9:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorror View Post

May I ask what you are looking to get out of the 2312 that you didn't get from the 2808ci. Also I would like to hear what you think soundwise between the two after you get it.

although I don't own these models, I can make a few points.

the 2808ci has superior build quality, it's older but heavier with better amp section and internal components. In terms of "raw" sound quality it should be slightly superior, especially for 2ch music where the better components and AL24 processing come into play. But it only has 2 HDMI inputs and no Dynamic EQ/Volume.

the 2312ci has many newer features, in addition to networking of course there is HDMI video scaling, and newer Audyssey features (Dynamic EQ + Volume) and a video GUI overlay. Plus more HDMI inputs. So basically it's more feature rich and with Dyn EQ/Vol it should better for most typical listening situations (below reference volume), whereas the 2808 would sound better if you like to listen to 2ch music cranked up loud and you have nice speakers with good room acoustics.
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post #11412 of 17928
4/30/12 at 10:10am
Thanks, Batpig. I actually thought about asking the same question that Darkhorror was asking me, but wanted to do some searching first.

I must admit, I am struggling to figure out if I really "need" to get the new receiver. I was hoping that it would sound better because it was newer hardware, but I realize that both still use the same Audyssey technology for measurements (I don't know if I would use dynamic volume, no kids at this moment). It would be nice to simplify how many cables I am running to the TV and would be nice to use the iPhone app, etc, etc, but most of this stuff is about convenience, not about sound quality, which is what I hoped to gain by upgrading.

I have had a good experience with the Denon 2808CI but given the price drop of the new Denon, it seemed like a real easy upgrade, but I am concerned to find out that the older unit has better innards. I do listen to a lot of music, but not like SERIOUS listening, where I am sitting sipping tea listening to .flac files, nodding sagely (though I like the notion).

I hate to ask this, but what would would be "better" in this situation? I may hold off if I am not going to hear a real difference in my day to day listening experience (5.1 DirecTV, Blu-ray, locally streamed music)...

thanks for these notes, though. I was just about to buy it, but now I am going to think a bit more.

-mike
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post #11413 of 17928
4/30/12 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

^^^ @49Merc: read through the Audyssey section of my FAQ, all your questions are already answered http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audyssey

Thanks batpig. As you said they would be, all of my questions were answered.

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post #11414 of 17928
4/30/12 at 10:21am
Thread Starter 
^^^^ @rikemomo - Dynamic EQ is a real game changer. Doesn't sound like you are doing a lot of "critical" 2ch listening so I think you will like the SQ of the newer model. Don't confuse it with Dyn Vol which is used to keep volume swings in check (e.g. for late night listening), Dynamic EQ allows you to maintain rich, full "reference quality" sound at any volume.

Quote:


but I am concerned to find out that the older unit has better innards

you have to keep in mind that (1) you are comparing a $1200msrp to an $850msrp model and (2) as the years advance, receivers are progressively trading off build quality for "features" to meet their price points. That doesn't mean the newer stuff is junk, but if you like to open up the box and see what's under the hood you are likely to find better components in the japanese-built 2808ci (beefier caps, power supply, etc) than the newer, chinese-built 2312ci.

that said, because of Dynamic EQ, the newer model should still sound better in most listening situations. And of course the feature list is much longer.
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post #11415 of 17928
4/30/12 at 10:21am
1. I've never had an AVR that went CLICK for mute. Do I understand correctly that it's physically throwing a switch to disengage the speaker output? I use mute frequently. I am concerned that I might wear out this physical hard-switch.

Should I tend to use volume down to zero instead of mute?

2. Adjusting channel level: Is the only way to adjust the db of a speaker is to go into test tone and do it with all that noise, or is there a way to do this without disturbing my neighbors or my senses?

The issue revolves around the center channel at low volumes, and dynamic volume does not work right for me. When I tried using Dynamic Volume, all setting except Off produced too much center channel dialog.

At normal to high volumes, I can easily hear the center channel dialog. But at lower volume (i.e., when I open the window, so as not to disturb the neighbor), I need more db from the center channel.
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post #11416 of 17928
4/30/12 at 10:34am
Thread Starter 
1. yes, there is a physical relay that is causing the "click", although I wouldn't worry about wearing it out. That said, I find it annoying too, so my suggestion (what I do) is go into the Option Setup > Volume Control area of the menu (pg 116 of your manual) and set the "Mute Level" to -40dB instead of "full mute". There will no longer be a relay click, instead you get a digital attenuation of 40dB which renders it essentially inaudible.

2. No, look on your remote, under the volume buttons, see the thing called "CH LEVEL"? Press it
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post #11417 of 17928
4/30/12 at 10:35am
UPS just showed up with my 2112.
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post #11418 of 17928
4/30/12 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

^^^^ @rikemomo - Dynamic EQ is a real game changer. Doesn't sound like you are doing a lot of "critical" 2ch listening so I think you will like the SQ of the newer model. Don't confuse it with Dyn Vol which is used to keep volume swings in check (e.g. for late night listening), Dynamic EQ allows you to maintain rich, full "reference quality" sound at any volume.

...

that said, because of Dynamic EQ, the newer model should still sound better in most listening situations. And of course the feature list is much longer.

Ha--I WAS wondering about that--the 2808CI was more expensive than this newer model, and I was wondering what the deal was! I can't help but feel that the 2808 sounds a little muddy in the mids in my room (which is an acoustical nightmare, hardwood floors, hard walls, not the greatest speaker configuration)...it sounds like the more advanced processing in the 2312 could help with that a lot.

Well, I can always return if it if I don't like it. I think I will pull the trigger and give a report.

thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate it.

-mike
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post #11419 of 17928
4/30/12 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

2. No, look on your remote, under the volume buttons, see the thing called "CH LEVEL"? Press it

Thanks. Sometimes there is a simple way! And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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post #11420 of 17928
4/30/12 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikemomo View Post

hey all-

I've been thinking about getting a new Denon to replace my current 2808CI, and I just noticed that Amazon just slashed the price of the 2312CI from the list ($849) to $599. When I checked last night, the price was $849! Glad I slept on it!

The 2112CI is currently at $470, down from $649 list.

Apologies if one is not supposed to talk about price on this particular board, it's just that I figured folks who were thinking about 'em would be interested to know of this very recent price drop..

mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorror View Post

May I ask what you are looking to get out of the 2312 that you didn't get from the 2808ci. Also I would like to hear what you think soundwise between the two after you get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

although I don't own these models, I can make a few points.

the 2808ci has superior build quality, it's older but heavier with better amp section and internal components. In terms of "raw" sound quality it should be slightly superior, especially for 2ch music where the better components and AL24 processing come into play. But it only has 2 HDMI inputs and no Dynamic EQ/Volume.

the 2312ci has many newer features, in addition to networking of course there is HDMI video scaling, and newer Audyssey features (Dynamic EQ + Volume) and a video GUI overlay. Plus more HDMI inputs. So basically it's more feature rich and with Dyn EQ/Vol it should better for most typical listening situations (below reference volume), whereas the 2808 would sound better if you like to listen to 2ch music cranked up loud and you have nice speakers with good room acoustics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rikemomo View Post

Thanks, Batpig. I actually thought about asking the same question that Darkhorror was asking me, but wanted to do some searching first.

I must admit, I am struggling to figure out if I really "need" to get the new receiver. I was hoping that it would sound better because it was newer hardware, but I realize that both still use the same Audyssey technology for measurements (I don't know if I would use dynamic volume, no kids at this moment). It would be nice to simplify how many cables I am running to the TV and would be nice to use the iPhone app, etc, etc, but most of this stuff is about convenience, not about sound quality, which is what I hoped to gain by upgrading.

I have had a good experience with the Denon 2808CI but given the price drop of the new Denon, it seemed like a real easy upgrade, but I am concerned to find out that the older unit has better innards. I do listen to a lot of music, but not like SERIOUS listening, where I am sitting sipping tea listening to .flac files, nodding sagely (though I like the notion).

I hate to ask this, but what would would be "better" in this situation? I may hold off if I am not going to hear a real difference in my day to day listening experience (5.1 DirecTV, Blu-ray, locally streamed music)...

thanks for these notes, though. I was just about to buy it, but now I am going to think a bit more.

-mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

^^^^ @rikemomo - Dynamic EQ is a real game changer. Doesn't sound like you are doing a lot of "critical" 2ch listening so I think you will like the SQ of the newer model. Don't confuse it with Dyn Vol which is used to keep volume swings in check (e.g. for late night listening), Dynamic EQ allows you to maintain rich, full "reference quality" sound at any volume.



you have to keep in mind that (1) you are comparing a $1200msrp to an $850msrp model and (2) as the years advance, receivers are progressively trading off build quality for "features" to meet their price points. That doesn't mean the newer stuff is junk, but if you like to open up the box and see what's under the hood you are likely to find better components in the japanese-built 2808ci (beefier caps, power supply, etc) than the newer, chinese-built 2312ci.

that said, because of Dynamic EQ, the newer model should still sound better in most listening situations. And of course the feature list is much longer.

It seems if you wait a couple weeks you can get a 3312ci to replace the 2808 at a reduced price. I've been quoted between $800 and $900 on this unit and am fence sitting right now about it.
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post #11421 of 17928
4/30/12 at 11:43am
Thread Starter 
good point. Based on past history there should be a (short) window of opportunity where you can get the 33xx model on closeout for around $600ish. But you will have to watch the deals and pounce when it hits.
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post #11422 of 17928
4/30/12 at 12:33pm
Yeah if you or anybody comes across one, send me a PM in case I miss it.

PLEASE..
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post #11423 of 17928
4/30/12 at 12:51pm
Arghh! You guys are killing me! I've been planning on snatching up an 2112ci pretty soon to replace my perfectly working Pio 1015THX that is built like a tank but doesn't have some of the bells & whistles like HDMI, Audyssey, etc. Any idea on how the amps in the old Pio compare to the 3312? Since the 3312 has pre-outs if they would get in the $600 range I would consider getting it and using the 1015 to power 5.1 (would probably expand to 7.1 since 3312 has DSX) if that could reasonably result in better sound.
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post #11424 of 17928
4/30/12 at 1:24pm
Thread Starter 
using one mid-range receiver as an amp paired with a different mid-range receiver is sort of pointless. You'd be much better served simply selling the Pio and getting a 2ch or 3ch amp for the front speakers if you feel you need more power (and chances are you won't).

I'm willing to bet the major advances in DSP (room correction, dyn EQ, etc) will totally overwhelm any trivial differences in amp power.
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post #11425 of 17928
4/30/12 at 1:29pm
thanks batpig, I appreciate your insight, I just didn't know how that Pio stacks up with the Denons.
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post #11426 of 17928
4/30/12 at 1:32pm
Thread Starter 
First off, no $499 receiver (your Pio included) is going to be a powerhouse.

look at it this way. Let's assume "honest" ratings. Your Pio is rated at 120W/ch, and the Denon 2112ci is rated at 90W/ch. The difference in max loudness between 90W and 120W is less than 1dB! And that assumes you are actually pushing the amp to its limits, which you are likely not.

unless you listen REALLY loud, have a huge room, or have low sensitivity speakers, chances are you use less than 1-2W/ch in normal listening. Most people really overestimate how much power they need.

BTW - your Pio's power supply is rated at 480W, and the Denon 2112ci is rated at 460W draw. I again am really skeptical of any huge power difference.
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post #11427 of 17928
4/30/12 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikemomo View Post

Ha--I WAS wondering about that--the 2808CI was more expensive than this newer model, and I was wondering what the deal was! I can't help but feel that the 2808 sounds a little muddy in the mids in my room (which is an acoustical nightmare, hardwood floors, hard walls, not the greatest speaker configuration)...it sounds like the more advanced processing in the 2312 could help with that a lot.

Well, I can always return if it if I don't like it. I think I will pull the trigger and give a report.

thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate it.

-mike

The "deal" is that the 3312CI is the current successor to the 2808CI. Also note that the 2312CI doesn't have "more advanced processing" rather it simply adds a new feature Dyn EQ that boosts the sub and the surround speakers at lower volume.
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post #11428 of 17928
4/30/12 at 1:44pm
I am unable to get my 3312 to display Dolby TrueHD when playing the latest Star Trek movie, using a Sony BDP-S380 ($99 unit). Instead I get Multi In + Dolby EX.

The Sony player has HDMI set to Auto (the other setting is PCM), and it's Dolby Digital is set to Dolby Digital (the other choice is PCM). There is also a Downmix setting (surround or stereo), but neither of these settings affects my issue (I'm not sure which to choose anyway).

On the 3312 I have the Surround Mode set to Standard. Under Information>audio input signal, it shows Multi-in+Dolby EX, the signal is PCM (!), and the fs is 48kHz.

Is this a problem with the player? I was able to get Dolby TrueHD using a lower end Samsung player, so it's not a problem with the disk.
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post #11429 of 17928
4/30/12 at 2:07pm
Thread Starter 
it's the player. When the receiver isn't showing the right surround mode / input signal, that means it isn't getting it.

as you can see when you check your input signal info, you are getting a multich PCM input signal, which means the player is decoding the audio. Nothing the receiver can do about that.

most likely culprit is the Secondary Audio setting on the player.
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post #11430 of 17928
4/30/12 at 2:23pm
^^^
Pcm and the the Bd player decodes and it shows up Multi Ch Stereo on your avr.

Bitstream and the avr will decode and the true mode will show up on the avr.

Both modes are of equal quality.

EDIT;
MORE info below for your model to Bitstream.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread