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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 464

post #13891 of 18957
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

no, rather you should do as I suggested and check the INFORMATION menu to confirm what is actually happening.
again, it's IMPOSSIBLE to decode a 5.1 signal and output it as 7.1 without SOME sort of processing taking place. Those extra two channels cannot appear out of thin air.
if you want to take photos post a photo of the front panel display (5.1 in > 7.1 out) as well as what's reported in the AUDIO INPUT SIGNAL section of the INFORMATION menu in the GUI.

if the unit is on and getting a signal it's doing some sort of processing...yes, the info shows just as you said 3/2/.1 but it DOES NOT use PLIIX to output 7.2


Well, to fair I didn't say you had to use PLIIx, just that the receiver must be doing SOMETHING to extract/decode 5.1 and output as 7.1.

I just checked the manuals and if you compare the "Surround Back" parameter options (pg 99 of the 3312 manual versus pg 74 of the 3311 manual) it does appear there is something new. The 3312 manual lists a setting called "ON" (typical Denon, very descriptive! tongue.gif) which can only be used with a DTS signal and is described as such: "Convert the 5.1-channel source of the DTS/DTS-HD input signals to the 7.1-channel output recommended by DTS".

So an apology is owed as I guess *something* has changed. They don't really give any details about what actually is happening to process these two extra channels. Have you compared this mode (DTS-MSTR + SB ON) to DTS-MSTR + PLIIx? Does it actually sound any better/different? Also does it work with any DTS-MSTR 5.1 track?
post #13892 of 18957
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

I must give this a try. I don't have 7.2 but I do have 7.1.

the ".2" part is irrelevant, it's still .1 as the dual subwoofers get the same signal.
post #13893 of 18957
I think it's using Audyssey Dynamic Surround Expansion (A-DSX)
Audyssey DSX™ (owner's manual says nothing about SB channels, just height or wide channels) to generate the SB speakers...which IS a feature on the 3311, maybe my settings weren't right?

haven't compared, probably couldn't tell the differ...
post #13894 of 18957
it's worked on all the DTS-MSTR 5.1 discs I've tried, so far: VALKYRIE, Gods & Generals, Gettysburg and Thomas Misty Island Rescue...how is it different from 6.1 or 7.1? I'll try and find out...
post #13895 of 18957
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

how could you possibly have 8 channels of output from 6 channels of input without applying some form of post processing?
someone is confused... i know who my money is on... tongue.gif

who's it on now? tongue.gif

seriously I just stumbled upon that info, and wanted to pass it on
post #13896 of 18957
also works, as it well should with my HD DVD dts 5.1 copy of U-571 biggrin.gifcool.gif
post #13897 of 18957
& HD DVD Top Gun DTS ES DISCRETE 6.1 3/3/.1

and HD DVD We Were Soldiers DTS ES 8ch dscrt 3/2/.1 cool.gif
post #13898 of 18957
wrong about Top Gun and We Were Soldiers, uses discreet for SB output, but U-571 DOES use the (SB ON) eek.gif
post #13899 of 18957
2112ci here. Everything was working fine, however, now when I switch to Network as the Input, I get no display on the TV. Other sources (BD, Sat/Cbl) pass fine, so it doesn't seem to be a cabling issue. I see the network menu on the display of the device "FAVORITES", and if I hit the Menu on the Remote it toggles back to "Audio Setup" on the Menu, but still nothing displayed on the TV (it is not sending a blank screen -- the TV sees no connection). Sometimes I can scroll through the menus using the remote, other times it seems to be locked up.

Am guessing the next step is a Microprocessor reset, but wanted to avoid losing Audussey settings (haven't tried saving them out yet, but I guess that'll be next...)

Any thoughts, or microprocessor reset?

Thanks...

(FYI, am about 2 firmware releases behind, as I have the Connection Failed:25 error, that prevents new firmware from being loaded, which is apparently fixed by a later firmware update, which of course I can't load). Am thinking I should take it in and have them update the firmware -- not sure if that'll be related to this problem or not...
post #13900 of 18957
^^
The GUI not displaying with the NET/USB source selected is a known issue as noted in post #4 of this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_50#post_20422031
post #13901 of 18957
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon777 View Post

2112ci here. Everything was working fine, however, now when I switch to Network as the Input, I get no display on the TV

The 2112 I received included this defect, Denon had the hdmi/network board replaced. I'm want to give it at least a week before determining if the board replacement fixed the problem, this problem was intermittent but frequent.

When this happens no detectable video signal is being produced with the NET/USB as the source. Disabled video output using NET/USB in my mind is a bettter description of the problem.
post #13902 of 18957
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

I think it's using Audyssey Dynamic Surround Expansion (A-DSX)
Audyssey DSX™ (owner's manual says nothing about SB channels, just height or wide channels) to generate the SB speakers...which IS a feature on the 3311, maybe my settings weren't right?

not possible, DSX cannot create surr.backs (only wides and heights) and there is no reason why it would trigger automatically, and exclusively, with a DTS signal. Not the same company wink.gif

either it's something embedded in the DTS-HD/MSTR stream or the Denon is just using a basic ES matrix to generate a surr.back channel. With no info in the manual who can say?

as your tests show it still manages to trigger the DTS-ES discrete flag with 6.1 soundtracks, so it must read the flag and if it's a 5.1 track it does SOMETHING to create those surr. backs.
post #13903 of 18957
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

not possible, DSX cannot create surr.backs (only wides and heights) and there is no reason why it would trigger automatically, and exclusively, with a DTS signal. Not the same company wink.gif
either it's something embedded in the DTS-HD/MSTR stream or the Denon is just using a basic ES matrix to generate a surr.back channel. With no info in the manual who can say?
as your tests show it still manages to trigger the DTS-ES discrete flag with 6.1 soundtracks, so it must read the flag and if it's a 5.1 track it does SOMETHING to create those surr. backs.

well, that's what the 3311 manual would seem to indicate wink.gif nevertheless, it's still cool as the other side of the pillow cool.gif now, to have something similar for Dolby TrueHD smile.gif
post #13904 of 18957
I'm close to sending mine back to Amazon (3312). I've tried a bunch of times now but the unit never budges from "Authenticating...Please wait" in the firmware update process. Tried three times now, let it run for at least an hour each time and more like 8 hours this time. Tried connecting directly to the modem, Tried connecting to two different routers. No error messages...just continuous Authenticating.

Oh and tried a microprocessor reset as well...even though its brand spankin new. Internet features work (tried network streaming of audio and Accessed Flickr Internet content).
post #13905 of 18957
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Well this is weird,-
Has anyone with a 2112 had their AVR change HDMI inputs at random intervals?
Since upgrading firmware a couple of weeks ago about ten times now my AVR has flicked to HDMI2 which is currently a TiVoHD that is powered off (no power plugged in).
No HDMI control running on any device.
No other source of IR in the room that could be changing it.
I really don't want to default the Denon just yet, but wondered if this is a known issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It's been known to happen from time to time on some units. First try a soft reset (ie. unplug for 10 minutes), then if no joy, a hard reset (microprocessor reset).

Just a follow up from this:
As my TiVo is currently inactive I set the AVR HDMI input to an unused port (from HDMI2 to HDMI1) and the problem has not manifested itself since.
post #13906 of 18957
Zone 2 Issue Solved!!

The other day I wrote about an issue with low level and distorted output on a whole house audio system newly connected to Zone 2 on the 3312. A suggestion was made that I run Zone 2 from the line level outputs of the 3312 instead of with the Zone 2 speaker connections.

I tried this using a Yamaha RX-V 367 receiver. As soon as I began to turn up the receiver's volume, the Yamaha immediately reported a speaker wiring issue and shut down. That led me to do more troubleshooting.

It turned out that the Audioplex stereo to mono mixing transformer that was supposed to sum to mono and impediance match was not making either the Denon or the Yamaha happy. It was removed from the system and replaced with a Monster speaker switch box that protects the amp's impediance and allows individual speakers to be turned on or off. What it doesn't do is mix to mono. That feat was accomplished by simply telling the Denon to feed Zone 2 with a mono signal.

I suppose that I could re-run the whole house audio system feed back to the 3312. But the Yamaha has no other purpose in life and keeps the Denon amps free to worry about the 5.1 feed in the Great Room.

Now I can sit out on our patio operating the 3312 with the IOS app and enjoy clean audio at decent volumes. Ah the luxuries of Amazon Gold Box deals!
post #13907 of 18957
Follow up on my fimware update post...if i just choose to update firmware instead of checking and then choosing update it fails after 5 minutes or so with error 25. This is such a stupid problem...no firmware update has ever given me issues. I know there are l8ts of people out there with similar issues...can someone post their resolution?
post #13908 of 18957
Sorry dude, it worked ootb for me... Maybe see what server it is and try to troubleshoot with your computer. It could be actual network, host name, dns issue. Just throwing out ideas since this receiver is bad ass...
post #13909 of 18957
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

nevertheless, it's still cool as the other side of the pillow cool.gif now, to have something similar for Dolby TrueHD smile.gif

you DO have something similar for Dolby TrueHD, just like you had with the 3311 -- it's called PLIIx!! It also worked for DTS signals on the 3311 too! Or you can use EX matrixing if you don't like PLIIx.

I just don't understand why you are positioning this as though it's somehow advantageous. You initially brought this up as a "nice feature" of the 3312 vs. the 3311, yet when I asked if you thought it was "better" than the PLIIx processing the 3311 (and 3312) can do, you said you hadn't compared and didn't even think you could tell the difference.... furthermore, we don't even KNOW what it is doing.

Yet you are concerned that you don't have some mysterious thing that you don't know is better for Dolby TrueHD? Why do you wish you had "it" for TrueHD if you don't know what it does and don't know if it's better than what you already have?

not trying to poop on your parade smile.gif but the bottom line is -- despite this "mystery" Surr.Back decoding -- there is really still no fundamental difference between the 3311 and 3312 in this regard. Both can decode any 5.1 signal and turn it into 7.1 using a variety of matrix options for the surr.back channels.
post #13910 of 18957
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
The GUI not displaying with the NET/USB source selected is a known issue as noted in post #4 of this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_50#post_20422031

Quote:
Originally Posted by freakjim View Post

The 2112 I received included this defect, Denon had the hdmi/network board replaced. I'm want to give it at least a week before determining if the board replacement fixed the problem, this problem was intermittent but frequent.
When this happens no detectable video signal is being produced with the NET/USB as the source. Disabled video output using NET/USB in my mind is a bettter description of the problem.

Thanks -- will try the "unplugging" solution recommended in the post. Going to take it in at some point (service center is about 30 minutes away) to get firmware updated. Want to see if this problem is fixed / recurring as well.
post #13911 of 18957
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
The GUI not displaying with the NET/USB source selected is a known issue as noted in post #4 of this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_50#post_20422031

I've had my 2112ci about six weeks and have this problem too. It's happened about five times, which is about half the times I've selected NET/USB after using another source first. Each time, pulling the plug and waiting a few minutes has corrected the problem. However, this is getting old, fast. I have a Panasonic TC-P50ST30 and the Viera Link (same as CEC?) is set to OFF.

It seems that quite a few people are having the same problem. I haven't spoken to Denon about it yet, but I will if it happens again.
post #13912 of 18957
That's really your only option to resolve the issue ... sending it in for repair. Check Denon's website to see if there are any authorized repair centers in your local area that you can drop it off at to get fixed. You'll need your dated bill of receipt from one of the authorized resellers when presenting the AVR to the repair facility.
post #13913 of 18957
Got everything hooked up yesterday on my 3312 and got a chance to run Audyssey today. Very pleased so far.
Only issue is a ground loop hum in my subs that popped up, tried running HDMI straight to the TV and optical to Dennon- that helped some but it's still there.
Ordered a isolator from Amazon so everything (knock wood) will be straight soon.
post #13914 of 18957
Been using the 3312 for a few days now and loving it so far. Just wondering what is the consensus regarding dynamic volume? I know Denon recommends using it but are there any disavantages using it depending on the source? For example, is it better to use with lets say cable tv but not so good with bru-ray movies? If I should use it what’s the best setting (late night, evening, day)?

Thanks!
post #13915 of 18957
It's a matter of personal preference, but generally most use Dyn EQ on all sources all the time, while using Dyn Vol (Evening) for TV shows (loud commercials) and late night viewing when others are sleeping, otherwise leave it off.
post #13916 of 18957
There is always a disadvantage in using dynamic volume, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. The disadvantage is that it distorts the signal. If you are a purist, that will bother you. The advantage is that it could save your marriage.

Dynamic volume is a handy device for taming the dynamic range of your source material. Its use is more dependent on you and your environment than on the type of device you are using (cable, blu-ray, etc.)

If you want to crank up your system to get the full impact of a movie sound track and you have no neighbors who will complain, by all means, crank up the volume and turn dynamic volume off.

If you want to watch the same movie and you have a sleeping baby or wife in the next room, turn the volume down and turn dynamic volume to midnight. The other two dynamic volume options are compromises between the first two extremes.

Hope that helps,

Burt
post #13917 of 18957
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It's a matter of personal preference, but generally most use Dyn EQ on all sources all the time.

I leave mine on but I don't hear any difference whether its off or on unless I'm using Dyn Vol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by balpers View Post

Dynamic volume is a handy device for taming the dynamic range of your source material.

This has me scratching my head. The exact opposite is happening in my setup. As I said above I don't hear any difference in volume or dynamic range with Dyn EQ on and Dyn Vol OFF, but as soon as I turn Dyn VOL to any setting other then OFF the volume increases and I hear more detail and emphasis in my high/lows. This is the case with all content and sources. For example, I was watching WOTW at -8 with Dyn Vol on set to DAYS and the movie comes alive giving me much more emphasis to my overall dynamic range. Set to evenings is the same but less emphasis, and so on. But if I turn Dyn Vol OFF (Dyn EQ still on), it sounds dull in comparison. confused.gif

I have factory reset the receiver and re-ran audyssey twice.
post #13918 of 18957
I just finished reading up about Dyn Eq here.

From my understanding, IF Dyn Eq is ON, the frequency response should stay the same as volume is decreased (anything less then 0). And Dyn Vol makes volume stay within the maximum and minimum limits you set. If that's the case then I may have a defective unit right? Seems that my Dyn Eq is not working unless I set Dyn Vol on. mad.gif

Any advise???
post #13919 of 18957
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmaowner View Post

From my understanding, IF Dyn Eq is ON, the frequency response should stay the same as volume is decreased (anything less then 0). And Dyn Vol makes volume stay within the maximum and minimum limits 

 

Dynamic EQ attempts to adjust the sound (at any level) to what you would hear at reference level. As your hearing is different based on the actual sound level. As an example I believe at lower levels it increases the volume of the surrounds and boosts the low-end. Typically, I can easily hear the low-end kick in the moment I enable it... assuming the volume level is relatively low.

post #13920 of 18957
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmaowner View Post

I just finished reading up about Dyn Eq here.
From my understanding, IF Dyn Eq is ON, the frequency response should stay the same as volume is decreased (anything less then 0). And Dyn Vol makes volume stay within the maximum and minimum limits you set. If that's the case then I may have a defective unit right? Seems that my Dyn Eq is not working unless I set Dyn Vol on. mad.gif
Any advise???

From the article you cite:

Audyssey Dynamic EQ selects the correct frequency response and surround volume levels moment-by-moment. The result is something never before possible – bass response, octave-to-octave balance and surround impression that remain as they should be despite changes in volume. (Emphasis added)

To me, this means that Auddysey is messing with the frequency response to compensate for both the threshold of the ear at different intensity levels and the acoustics of the room. The graphs in the article suggest the same. (Thanks for the link, BTW. It's quite a feat.)

Subjectively, with dynamic volume off, dialog seems crisper and high frequency percussion (cymbals, wood blocks, the bongos on the Mad Men theme) seem to leap forward. At least that's how it sounds to me. A slight loss in this definition seems to be the trade off for reducing the dynamic range of the source.

I'd love to hear from others on this issue. For me, dynamic volume is an excellent compromise to meet different needs.

Burt
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