AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 465

post #13921 of 17929
6/23/12 at 4:17pm
Been using the 3312 for a few days now and loving it so far. Just wondering what is the consensus regarding dynamic volume? I know Denon recommends using it but are there any disavantages using it depending on the source? For example, is it better to use with lets say cable tv but not so good with bru-ray movies? If I should use it what’s the best setting (late night, evening, day)?

Thanks!
Reply
Reply

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #13922 of 17929
6/23/12 at 4:50pm
It's a matter of personal preference, but generally most use Dyn EQ on all sources all the time, while using Dyn Vol (Evening) for TV shows (loud commercials) and late night viewing when others are sleeping, otherwise leave it off.
Reply
Reply
post #13923 of 17929
6/23/12 at 4:56pm
There is always a disadvantage in using dynamic volume, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. The disadvantage is that it distorts the signal. If you are a purist, that will bother you. The advantage is that it could save your marriage.

Dynamic volume is a handy device for taming the dynamic range of your source material. Its use is more dependent on you and your environment than on the type of device you are using (cable, blu-ray, etc.)

If you want to crank up your system to get the full impact of a movie sound track and you have no neighbors who will complain, by all means, crank up the volume and turn dynamic volume off.

If you want to watch the same movie and you have a sleeping baby or wife in the next room, turn the volume down and turn dynamic volume to midnight. The other two dynamic volume options are compromises between the first two extremes.

Hope that helps,

Burt
Reply
Reply
post #13924 of 17929
6/23/12 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It's a matter of personal preference, but generally most use Dyn EQ on all sources all the time.

I leave mine on but I don't hear any difference whether its off or on unless I'm using Dyn Vol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by balpers View Post

Dynamic volume is a handy device for taming the dynamic range of your source material.

This has me scratching my head. The exact opposite is happening in my setup. As I said above I don't hear any difference in volume or dynamic range with Dyn EQ on and Dyn Vol OFF, but as soon as I turn Dyn VOL to any setting other then OFF the volume increases and I hear more detail and emphasis in my high/lows. This is the case with all content and sources. For example, I was watching WOTW at -8 with Dyn Vol on set to DAYS and the movie comes alive giving me much more emphasis to my overall dynamic range. Set to evenings is the same but less emphasis, and so on. But if I turn Dyn Vol OFF (Dyn EQ still on), it sounds dull in comparison. confused.gif

I have factory reset the receiver and re-ran audyssey twice.
Reply
Reply
post #13925 of 17929
6/23/12 at 7:05pm
I just finished reading up about Dyn Eq here.

From my understanding, IF Dyn Eq is ON, the frequency response should stay the same as volume is decreased (anything less then 0). And Dyn Vol makes volume stay within the maximum and minimum limits you set. If that's the case then I may have a defective unit right? Seems that my Dyn Eq is not working unless I set Dyn Vol on. mad.gif

Any advise???
Reply
Reply
post #13926 of 17929
6/23/12 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmaowner View Post

From my understanding, IF Dyn Eq is ON, the frequency response should stay the same as volume is decreased (anything less then 0). And Dyn Vol makes volume stay within the maximum and minimum limits 

 

Dynamic EQ attempts to adjust the sound (at any level) to what you would hear at reference level. As your hearing is different based on the actual sound level. As an example I believe at lower levels it increases the volume of the surrounds and boosts the low-end. Typically, I can easily hear the low-end kick in the moment I enable it... assuming the volume level is relatively low.

Reply
Reply
post #13927 of 17929
6/23/12 at 7:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmaowner View Post

I just finished reading up about Dyn Eq here.
From my understanding, IF Dyn Eq is ON, the frequency response should stay the same as volume is decreased (anything less then 0). And Dyn Vol makes volume stay within the maximum and minimum limits you set. If that's the case then I may have a defective unit right? Seems that my Dyn Eq is not working unless I set Dyn Vol on. mad.gif
Any advise???

From the article you cite:

Audyssey Dynamic EQ selects the correct frequency response and surround volume levels moment-by-moment. The result is something never before possible – bass response, octave-to-octave balance and surround impression that remain as they should be despite changes in volume. (Emphasis added)

To me, this means that Auddysey is messing with the frequency response to compensate for both the threshold of the ear at different intensity levels and the acoustics of the room. The graphs in the article suggest the same. (Thanks for the link, BTW. It's quite a feat.)

Subjectively, with dynamic volume off, dialog seems crisper and high frequency percussion (cymbals, wood blocks, the bongos on the Mad Men theme) seem to leap forward. At least that's how it sounds to me. A slight loss in this definition seems to be the trade off for reducing the dynamic range of the source.

I'd love to hear from others on this issue. For me, dynamic volume is an excellent compromise to meet different needs.

Burt
Reply
Reply
post #13928 of 17929
6/23/12 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Dynamic EQ attempts to adjust the sound (at any level) to what you would hear at reference level. As your hearing is different based on the actual sound level. As an example I believe at lower levels it increases the volume of the surrounds and boosts the low-end. Typically, I can easily hear the low-end kick in the moment I enable it... assuming the volume level is relatively low.

Agreed,

Unfortunately Dyn EQ is not adjusting my sound at all (at any level) unless I enable Dyn Volume (min, med,max). Any suggestions??
Reply
Reply
post #13929 of 17929
6/23/12 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by balpers View Post

From the article you cite:
Audyssey Dynamic EQ selects the correct frequency response and surround volume levels moment-by-moment. The result is something never before possible – bass response, octave-to-octave balance and surround impression that remain as they should be despite changes in volume. (Emphasis added)
To me, this means that Auddysey is messing with the frequency response to compensate for both the threshold of the ear at different intensity levels and the acoustics of the room. The graphs in the article suggest the same. (Thanks for the link, BTW. It's quite a feat.)
Subjectively, with dynamic volume off, dialog seems crisper and high frequency percussion (cymbals, wood blocks, the bongos on the Mad Men theme) seem to leap forward. At least that's how it sounds to me. A slight loss in this definition seems to be the trade off for reducing the dynamic range of the source.
I'd love to hear from others on this issue. For me, dynamic volume is an excellent compromise to meet different needs.
Burt

I'm clear now and understand how it works. Dyn EQ is a great feature. I listen to all my content between -22 and -8 depending on the source/content. I'm just upset that my Dyn EQ is only working when using the Dyn Vol settings to suppress the effects. I would like to be able to enjoy the Dyn EQ feature without using the Dyn Vol feature.

I'll try another factory reset when I get home. I love audyseey but hate running it, takes at least 30 minutes to complete. I'm wondering if this issue is worth the hassle of going through a RMA with Amazon if I continue to have this problem. I know I sound like I'm nit picking and I hope I'm not doing something wrong. Can someone else test this maybe? Watch your favorite bluray with the volume set to -20, toggle Dyn EQ on/off and tell me if you hear a difference. Also test if you hear a difference with Dyn Vol off/on (any setting).

Thanks for any help on this.
Edited by plasmaowner - 6/23/12 at 7:55pm
Reply
Reply
post #13930 of 17929
6/23/12 at 8:01pm
Okay I figured this might be the best place to ask. I am looking to get a new receiver. I have intrest in possibly getting a 3312ci or marantz sr6006. I have read that these are pretty close. I can get them within 100 buck price difference depending roughly. I was wondering what your guys opinions on both are. I am more of a novice with home theatre and learn as I go. My set up will have a 5ch/200w/per amp. that will power my infinity P363's & PC350 and depending on which I go with P163 or Dv62si. Leaving a pair of one of those 2 bookshelf speakers to be powered by the receiver. I am not worried about features atleast right now. I don't hook it to the internet and pretty much only watch blurays/3d blurays and tv with my sound system all video and audio running through the receiver's hdmi directly. I may use it a bit for music but not much. So I have a few questions 1-which one would be a better fit for my needs&system? 2-which one is in general better? And 3-which One would you recommend?
Thank You.
Reply
Reply
post #13931 of 17929
6/23/12 at 8:07pm
Thread Starter 
they're basically the same thing... so the buy the one that's cheaper or maybe the one that looks nicer wink.gif

for more details read my post in this thread where someone asked the same thing: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1417012/denon-3312ci-or-marantz-sr6006
Reply
Reply
post #13932 of 17929
6/23/12 at 8:10pm
Thread Starter 
@ plasmaowner -- try it at -40 instead of -20.. put on some bassy music and toggle Dyn EQ on/off.
Reply
Reply
post #13933 of 17929
6/23/12 at 9:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

@ plasmaowner -- try it at -40 instead of -20.. put on some bassy music and toggle Dyn EQ on/off.

Thanks batpig, I'll try this when I get home and report back within the next hour.
Reply
Reply
post #13934 of 17929
6/23/12 at 9:55pm
Thread Starter 
it's worth noting that Dyn Vol is much less subtle than Dyn EQ, which is why I asked that you try it at a lower volume where its effect will be more pronounced. The lower the volume, the more "boost" Dyn EQ applies.
Quote:
Dynamic volume is a handy device for taming the dynamic range of your source material.
Quote:
This has me scratching my head. The exact opposite is happening in my setup. As I said above I don't hear any difference in volume or dynamic range with Dyn EQ on and Dyn Vol OFF, but as soon as I turn Dyn VOL to any setting other then OFF the volume increases and I hear more detail and emphasis in my high/lows.

many people mistake LOUDNESS for DYNAMICS. Dynamic Volume will usually make things louder because it's COMPRESSING the distance between the loudest and softest sounds. So with a typical scene, with dialogue and basic ambient noise, Dyn Vol will lift the volume up making it easier to hear. But if you were to listen to a very loud scene, it would bring things down. A lot of people are confused that things can sound so much louder when they turn Dyn Vol on because their preconception is that it's about controlling loud commercials, thus it will make the volume softer. But it only makes things softer when there is a dynamic peak, which it will try to damp down.

so, for example (picking arbitrary numbers for illustration) without Dyn Vol you may have to turn up the volume to -15 to hear the dialogue... but then when an explosion happens it is uncomfortably loud so you jump to grab the remote and turn the volume down.... but then you can't hear the dialogue clearly any more, so you turn it back up, and so on. With Dyn Vol engaged, it might make the dialogue audible at only -30 or -25, so your master volume is starting out 10-15dB softer. then, when the explosion happens, Dyn Vol will further damp down on the peak.

Dyn EQ on the other hand doesn't mess with the volume at all, it simply fills in the freq response to try and maintain tonal balance.
Reply
Reply
post #13935 of 17929
6/23/12 at 10:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmaowner View Post

Thanks batpig, I'll try this when I get home and report back within the next hour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

it's worth noting that Dyn Vol is much less subtle than Dyn EQ, which is why I asked that you try it at a lower volume where its effect will be more pronounced. The lower the volume, the more "boost" Dyn EQ applies.
Quote:
Dynamic volume is a handy device for taming the dynamic range of your source material.
Quote:
This has me scratching my head. The exact opposite is happening in my setup. As I said above I don't hear any difference in volume or dynamic range with Dyn EQ on and Dyn Vol OFF, but as soon as I turn Dyn VOL to any setting other then OFF the volume increases and I hear more detail and emphasis in my high/lows.
many people mistake LOUDNESS for DYNAMICS. Dynamic Volume will usually make things louder because it's COMPRESSING the distance between the loudest and softest sounds. So with a typical scene, with dialogue and basic ambient noise, Dyn Vol will lift the volume up making it easier to hear. But if you were to listen to a very loud scene, it would bring things down. A lot of people are confused that things can sound so much louder when they turn Dyn Vol on because their preconception is that it's about controlling loud commercials, thus it will make the volume softer. But it only makes things softer when there is a dynamic peak, which it will try to damp down.
so, for example (picking arbitrary numbers for illustration) without Dyn Vol you may have to turn up the volume to -15 to hear the dialogue... but then when an explosion happens it is uncomfortably loud so you jump to grab the remote and turn the volume down.... but then you can't hear the dialogue clearly any more, so you turn it back up, and so on. With Dyn Vol engaged, it might make the dialogue audible at only -30 or -25, so your master volume is starting out 10-15dB softer. then, when the explosion happens, Dyn Vol will further damp down on the peak.
Dyn EQ on the other hand doesn't mess with the volume at all, it simply fills in the freq response to try and maintain tonal balance.

Okay just played some bassey music and some scenes from Saving Private Ryan with the volume set to -40 and toggling between Dyn EQ ON/OFF (dyn vol set to off) and yes I do hear a difference now. The volume didn't really increase but I definitely could here the difference in my surround sound, highs and lows. Turned on Dyn Vol and set to DAYS and everything gets louder (total volume, surround sounds, highs and lows). You explanation above makes a lot of sense to me now however!

"many people mistake LOUDNESS for DYNAMICS"

This is exactly what I was doing. Thanks batpig for taking the time to clear things up for me.
Reply
Reply
post #13936 of 17929
6/24/12 at 5:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antimatter81 View Post

Okay I figured this might be the best place to ask. I am looking to get a new receiver. I have intrest in possibly getting a 3312ci or marantz sr6006. I have read that these are pretty close. I can get them within 100 buck price difference depending roughly. I was wondering what your guys opinions on both are. I am more of a novice with home theatre and learn as I go. My set up will have a 5ch/200w/per amp. that will power my infinity P363's & PC350 and depending on which I go with P163 or Dv62si. Leaving a pair of one of those 2 bookshelf speakers to be powered by the receiver. I am not worried about features atleast right now. I don't hook it to the internet and pretty much only watch blurays/3d blurays and tv with my sound system all video and audio running through the receiver's hdmi directly. I may use it a bit for music but not much. So I have a few questions 1-which one would be a better fit for my needs&system? 2-which one is in general better? And 3-which One would you recommend?
Thank You.

unless you have already bought it (and can't return it), you can save the money you were going to spend on the amp, as it will be unnecessary...
Reply
Reply
post #13937 of 17929
6/24/12 at 7:19am
Hey guys, quick question. When I play music (CD, internet radio, via air play) I seem to be getting way too much bass out of all of my speakers.

The sub plays some pass but it seems like my sound is distorting through my speakers because I've got too much bass coming out of them.

Here is some of the relevant info:

2112ci

All 5 speakers set to "small".

Ran audyssey quite some time ago, never fiddled with settings (I imagine it has always sounded like this but I guess I'm noticing it more now).

Speaker config is set properly according to how my room is set up.

I've used various listening modes and nothing really reduces the bass from the regular 5.

Ideas?
Reply
Reply
post #13938 of 17929
6/24/12 at 7:37am
^^^

ensure that all your xovers are set to at least 80hz...
Reply
Reply
post #13939 of 17929
6/24/12 at 7:55am
What do you mean by "all your crossovers"?

I believe mine are set at 40hz, which means nothing to me. What does a higher/lower number mean?
Reply
Reply
post #13940 of 17929
6/24/12 at 8:08am
Okay, higher number means it cuts out more bass? I set them to 110, seems to have done the trick.
Reply
Reply
post #13941 of 17929
6/24/12 at 8:10am
^^^

the xover determines which frequencies go to the sub and which go to the speakers...

set to 40hz, your results are what they should be...

set to 80hz (or higher), your results will be what you want...
Reply
Reply
post #13942 of 17929
6/24/12 at 9:30am
After searching and reading through dozens and dozens of pages of this thread I think I'm more confused then ever haha.

Wondering if I can accomplish my home a/v distribution with a couple of AVR-XX12s.

I'd like them to the centre piece of a home a/v system. Both would reside in a machine room in the basement. Both would be connected to a gigabit switch. The first would provide functionality to the main floor, the second to the upper floor.

Essentially I want to be able to have each zone playing at the same time with different content. To accomplish this, I'd like to use 2 D-link Boxee Box units - each connected to one of the AVR-XX12s. That should handle video. For audio, I'd like to use a PC running JRiver Media Center combined with a multi channel audio interface that feeds each AVR-XX12. This should handle multi-zone audio nicely. I want to control everything with Roomie Remote on my iPad and our iPhones.

My questions are:

  1. Are the AVR-XX12's capable of say playing 5.1 content to the living room while playing music (from a separate source) to the kitchen?
  2. Does Roomie support the multi-zone capabilities of the AVR-XX12s?
  3. What considerations should be made when choosing in-wall/in-ceiling speakers for each zone?

Does this setup even make sense? Are there better options to accomplish the same thing?

AVR-XX12 #1

  • Provide functionality to the main floor of the house
  • Sources: D-link Boxee Box for video, JRiver Media Center for music


Living Room
5.1 setup -- in wall speakers (yet to be determined)

Kitchen
Stereo in-ceiling speakers (yet to be determined)


AVR-XX12 #2

  • Provide functionality to the upper floor of the house
  • Sources: D-link Boxee Box for video, JRiver Media Center for music


Master Bedrom
L +R 2 Channel -- in wall speakers (yet to be determined)

Master Bath
Stereo in-ceiling speakers (yet to be determined)
Reply
Reply
post #13943 of 17929
6/24/12 at 11:05am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razal View Post

Hey guys, quick question. When I play music (CD, internet radio, via air play) I seem to be getting way too much bass out of all of my speakers.

The sub plays some pass but it seems like my sound is distorting through my speakers because I've got too much bass coming out of them.

Here is some of the relevant info:

2112ci

All 5 speakers set to "small".

Ran audyssey quite some time ago, never fiddled with settings (I imagine it has always sounded like this but I guess I'm noticing it more now).

Speaker config is set properly according to how my room is set up.

I've used various listening modes and nothing really reduces the bass from the regular 5.

Ideas?

you should read up in the Audyssey section of my FAQ: http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audyssey

in addition to raising the crossovers (which will take the bass from the speakers and redirect it to the sub) you need to adjust the Dyn EQ reference level offset parameter because music will get too much bass boost from Dyn EQ if you don't offset it. I explain this in my FAQ so check out the link.
Reply
Reply
post #13944 of 17929
6/24/12 at 11:13am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by memmo View Post

After searching and reading through dozens and dozens of pages of this thread I think I'm more confused then ever haha.

Wondering if I can accomplish my home a/v distribution with a couple of AVR-XX12s.

I'd like them to the centre piece of a home a/v system. Both would reside in a machine room in the basement. Both would be connected to a gigabit switch. The first would provide functionality to the main floor, the second to the upper floor.

question: if the second AVR will provide audio only to the upstairs (master bedroom + bathroom) and you are going to buy a second boxee box for it anyway, why not just have it upstairs? it seems you really have two distinct setups. I would assume the boxee box or a similar media streamer would allow you to access all the media content in the main PC server downstairs. Then at least when in bed you can control it with a normal remote if you want.

anyway, if you've been doing reading I assume you know that the big limitation will bet that Zone 2 will only play ANALOG sources, so whatever source that is feeding the AVR that you want to play in the secondary stereo zone must have an analog audio connection paralleling the digital audio connection.

I don't know anything about Roomie but if it has any "learning" function worst-case you should be able to teach it the zone 2 commands from the factory remote.
Reply
Reply
post #13945 of 17929
6/24/12 at 11:20am
I currently own the 2312CI which replaced my 2310CI mainly to add 3D bypass and Network capability. Just recently I finally connected to my network and I am getting notification of a firmware update available. My problem is that nothing I do will allow me to click on the icon to continue and the notice disappears. I'm sure this may be a stupid question but is there a way to get to the update?
Reply
Reply
post #13946 of 17929
6/24/12 at 11:21am
Question: I am only getting "multichannel in" when playing a DTS movie through HDMI from my HTPC. The computer detects the device on the HDMI as the Denon AMP and shows DTS as an option, but when I play something it's either stereo or "multichannel". With my old receiver (Onkyo rc160) it would show as "DTS" when playing but not now. Is there something I'm missing?
Reply
Reply
post #13947 of 17929
6/24/12 at 11:26am
Thread Starter 
Answer: http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audio
Reply
Reply
post #13948 of 17929
6/24/12 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbal52 View Post

I currently own the 2312CI which replaced my 2310CI mainly to add 3D bypass and Network capability. Just recently I finally connected to my network and I am getting notification of a firmware update available. My problem is that nothing I do will allow me to click on the icon to continue and the notice disappears. I'm sure this may be a stupid question but is there a way to get to the update?

Try pressing "AMP" before pressing "Enter". As an alternative, try following the procedure on p. 115 in your Owner's manual. Also try a "soft" reset (ie. unplugging the AVR for about 10 minutes).
Reply
Reply
post #13949 of 17929
6/24/12 at 4:08pm
Hello,

I apologize if this is elsewhere in this thread, but I searched and could not find it. I recently purchased a 2312 and have a question. What I would like to do is upconvert my audio to 5.1 regardless of if it is a stereo signal or not. My old receiver made this very simple -- basically one button and that was it. Of course it was not "real" 5.1, but I much preferred it to just stereo.

My setup is a Windows 7 64 bit PC with built-in Realtek HD Audio, and then an Nvidia 560Ti. I have this going out over HDMI to the 2312, and then from there to my monitor (an aging Panasonic TH-50PX60U), again over HDMI.

This is most problematic when I try to use Netflix, but if I play any video with only stereo sound (like with vlc), the same thing occurs. I cannot find any way to acceptably upconvert it. From the documentation, and what I have been able to research, I think it should be as simple as selecting (for instance) "Movie" and then Dolby or something to force it to 5.1. But I do not see that even as an option in any of the Movie, Game, Music options. The only options I do see are Stereo, Multi Ch In, Multi Ch Stereo, Mono Movie, and Virtual. Only "Multi Ch Stereo" gives any sound out of the other speakers, but that's just the same signal and not what I am looking for. There are also no Dolby options under Surround Parameters.

The Audio signal shows up as MULTI CH IN, PCM, 48kHz, 3/2/.1.

If I play a game, or a video file with actual 5.1 audio, then everything works fine.
Reply
Reply
post #13950 of 17929
6/24/12 at 4:20pm
Wondering if anyone else has gotten a "server error" when accessing the Internet Radio. I have gotten this error for the last few weeks. Thought it might be my bridge (D-Link DAP-1513) that my Denon 2112 is connected to so that it can access my wireless router. But I connected my laptop to this bridge and was able to access the internet and in the network settings denon was able to set an ip address. I have no problem accessing my network to access my media devices and play music from it. Can someone help me with this because I'm getting really frustrated with this? Thanks in advance.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread