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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 504

post #15091 of 18955
Ok...but then how do i connect the tv directly to the cable box via hdmi? do i have two hdmis going to tv? (one from tv to avr via arc hdmi and one from tv to cable box via a second hdmi on the tv)?
post #15092 of 18955
Yup. smile.gif

You can use a universal remote (eg. Harmony) to make the process easier for your wife.
post #15093 of 18955
tried and didn't like the harmony. didn't work well, etc

would ideally like to have her and the kids use nothing more than the cable remote. I think the system you suggest will allow it.

But I'm still confused, and pardon my ignorance, as I know this is basic stuff to you guys

Currently I have one HDMI going from tv to Denon AVR. It is running to the arc input on back of AVR and goes to the hdmi arc in tv. I assume I should leave that in and simply add an hdmi line from tv (via, say hdmi 2) to the cable box? If so, how does the cable box tie into the avr? Is that what the optical cable does? Uses the tv to channel from cable box to avr (assuming I want to watch cable in 5.0 surround)?

Thx....
post #15094 of 18955
Correct. Leave the cable from the AVR to the TV as is so it can pass the video sources that are connected to the AVR on to the TV. The HDMI cable from the cable box to HDMI #2 on the TV will pass both audio and video for your wife's viewing. The optical from the cable box to the AVR will pass audio only to the AVR for when you want to use the 5.1 setup. You wife would select HDMI #2 on the TV and turn the cable box ON, while you would select HDMI #1 on the TV and turn the AVR ON when using other sources and surround sound from the cable box.
post #15095 of 18955
Great. Thanks JD

Is there any way to set it up so that it just defaults to hdmi 2 so that they can simply turn on the tv with the cable remote or will it always require selecting the source first? That means digging into the tv menu and doing it.

To me not a biggie, but my wife and kids want it simple (which, I realize, is why most people use / like the Harmony solution).
post #15096 of 18955
More questions on my 3312ci:

First, I'm loving this AVR. I moved to it from a Sony STR DA3ES.

My speakers are Polk bookshelves, center, surrounds and sub. (5.1).

I'm confused by the audio upscaling options. I primarily use a Panasonic DMP BDT220 bluray player, an Xbox 360 or streaming internet/LAN music. Focusing on the bluray player, I have it hooked up via HDMI to the 3312ci. I use "BD" to select it as an input source. I've run the Audyssey setup and followed the first several posts in this thread. When I play bluray disks, everything sounds great and I get full 5.1 output. However, if I put in an audio CD, then the 3312ci ignored my subwoofer and only played it as pure stereo. I had to manually change my fronts from Large to Small and then setup a custom sound profile to get the sub to work with 2 channel sound. That seems like a kludge.

I also found that the xbox 360 (hdmi into Game 1) was not using the 5.1 speaker setup when streaming netflix.

Streaming Netflix through the Panasonic DMP BDT220 bluray's internet interface, results in 2 channel sound instead of 5.1 (as listed by Netflix).

Is there a way to set up the 3312ci so that, after running Audyssey and setting up the speakers, that it will AUTOMATICALLY select the speakers I want it to use? 5.1 for games, 5.1 for bluray, 5.1 for Netflix with 5.1 sound, 2.1 for CD's, and 3.1 (front, center and sub) for Netflix without 5.1?

(I've just spent a couple hours reading through the manual and I'm overwhelmed by the ability to create custom soundfields.)

Thanks
Ken
post #15097 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulany View Post

Great. Thanks JD
Is there any way to set it up so that it just defaults to hdmi 2 so that they can simply turn on the tv with the cable remote or will it always require selecting the source first? That means digging into the tv menu and doing it.
To me not a biggie, but my wife and kids want it simple (which, I realize, is why most people use / like the Harmony solution).

I think most TVs when turned on, will be at the same input as when you turned it off. So the easiest for your family is that you remember to always switch the TV to HDMI2 before you turn it off.
post #15098 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulany View Post

Great. Thanks JD

Is there any way to set it up so that it just defaults to hdmi 2 so that they can simply turn on the tv with the cable remote or will it always require selecting the source first? That means digging into the tv menu and doing it.

To me not a biggie, but my wife and kids want it simple (which, I realize, is why most people use / like the Harmony solution).
Get a universal remote something like the Harmony 1 and you can set up "Activities". A "TV Only" activity could be set up for your wife an kids. Other activities can be set up for other combinations like "Watch TV", "Watch DVD" or "Music". You can name the activities any way that works for your family.

The Harmony remotes are easy to configure but you do need an Internet connection with a USB port.
post #15099 of 18955
I'm using a Harmony One and, like others before me, I cannot endorse it strongly enough. It takes away the entire, "Honey, if I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times: you need to change the input on this remote, select volume with this one, turn on the dvd here, and that's it."

Get one. Everyone will be happier.
post #15100 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulany View Post

tried and didn't like the harmony. didn't work well, etc
would ideally like to have her and the kids use nothing more than the cable remote. I think the system you suggest will allow it.

For who? Everyone or just the wife? Which Harmony model did you buy? I would suggest nothing lower than the 650 which has a lighted display that is easier to use to troubleshoot connection problems. Otherwise, as suggested, anytime you use the surround setup, you'll want to manually ensure you return the TV to HDMI #2. With cable box configuration suggested, you can then setup the DVD player as the "HDMI Standby Pass through" device so the AVR doesn't have to be turned on by the kids when the surround sound setup is not wanted.
post #15101 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by c3k View Post

More questions on my 3312ci:
First, I'm loving this AVR. I moved to it from a Sony STR DA3ES.
My speakers are Polk bookshelves, center, surrounds and sub. (5.1).
I'm confused by the audio upscaling options. I primarily use a Panasonic DMP BDT220 bluray player, an Xbox 360 or streaming internet/LAN music. Focusing on the bluray player, I have it hooked up via HDMI to the 3312ci. I use "BD" to select it as an input source. I've run the Audyssey setup and followed the first several posts in this thread. When I play bluray disks, everything sounds great and I get full 5.1 output. However, if I put in an audio CD, then the 3312ci ignored my subwoofer and only played it as pure stereo. I had to manually change my fronts from Large to Small and then setup a custom sound profile to get the sub to work with 2 channel sound. That seems like a kludge.
I also found that the xbox 360 (hdmi into Game 1) was not using the 5.1 speaker setup when streaming netflix.
Streaming Netflix through the Panasonic DMP BDT220 bluray's internet interface, results in 2 channel sound instead of 5.1 (as listed by Netflix).
Is there a way to set up the 3312ci so that, after running Audyssey and setting up the speakers, that it will AUTOMATICALLY select the speakers I want it to use? 5.1 for games, 5.1 for bluray, 5.1 for Netflix with 5.1 sound, 2.1 for CD's, and 3.1 (front, center and sub) for Netflix without 5.1?
(I've just spent a couple hours reading through the manual and I'm overwhelmed by the ability to create custom soundfields.)
Thanks
Ken

1. No kludge, rather that's how the whole LARGE/SMALL deal works, however, you should also have your front main speakers set to SMALL/80hz in the manual setup menu as well.


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_L25


2. Unless you have the 5.1 track selected on Netflix, all you'll get is stereo.
post #15102 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by c3k View Post

However, if I put in an audio CD, then the 3312ci ignored my subwoofer and only played it as pure stereo. I had to manually change my fronts from Large to Small and then setup a custom sound profile to get the sub to work with 2 channel sound. That seems like a kludge.

not a kludge. it's the very definition of "bass management"... wink.gif

fwiw, you should set your speakers to small (with a xover of at least 80hz) and leave them there for ALL sources...
post #15103 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

not a kludge. it's the very definition of "bass management"... wink.gif
fwiw, you should set your speakers to small (with a xover of at least 80hz) and leave them there for ALL sources...

+1. "large" really means nothing more than "do not invoke bass management." Without bass management, nothing goes to the sub from a stereo input because there's no .1 channel . . . Most receiver companies default to large/no bass management at far too high a frequency ( a fact often lemented by Audyssey's COO (or is he CTO?) when he participated here heavily.
post #15104 of 18955
^^^

yup.... chris k. basically said that speakers should virtually always be set to small... rightfully so...

life would be SO much easier for people if the avr defaulted to small (and xover of 80hz or greater), and the option to change it to large was buried WAY down deep in the menu options...
post #15105 of 18955
Are there after market replacements for Defective Denon HDMI cards for the 3312CI and 4308CI ? I've never opened any of these receivers but the ones Denon is using are not performing well.

Not only is the handshake off but the HDMI boards and ports blow too ofen and the HDMI boards in my 3312CI and 4308CI have both failed and Denon is so back ordered from defective HDMI boards that my service center can't even get a board for me after waiting over two weeks?

Are there any after market solutions that anyone knows of?

Also... How do you know if one of these defective HDMI cards is also in the current Denon receivers? Is there a way to check the version or build or type of HDMI card before you buy a Denon receiver? I don't want to buy another Denon with the same HDMI cards after my 3312CI and 4308CI both failed from the same defects

Thank you
post #15106 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by filcro1 View Post

Are there after market replacements for Defective Denon HDMI cards for the 3312CI and 4308CI ? I've never opened any of these receivers but the ones Denon is using are not performing well.
Not only is the handshake off but the HDMI boards and ports blow too ofen and the HDMI boards in my 3312CI and 4308CI have both failed and Denon is so back ordered from defective HDMI boards that my service center can't even get a board for me after waiting over two weeks?
Are there any after market solutions that anyone knows of?
Also... How do you know if one of these defective HDMI cards is also in the current Denon receivers? Is there a way to check the version or build or type of HDMI card before you buy a Denon receiver? I don't want to buy another Denon with the same HDMI cards after my 3312CI and 4308CI both failed from the same defects
Thank you
Highly doubt is there is more on the board that has the HDMI ports on it than just those.
post #15107 of 18955
The HDMI cards seem to include the network transciever, too. At least one person reported in one of the Denon threads here that when he had a network problem, the repair report said that they'd replaced the HDMI card to fix the network problem.

Aftermarket cards are highly unlikely to ever exist, in my opinion. There's not enough profit margin. Reverse engineering, designing and debugging the replacement would be quite a lot of work.
post #15108 of 18955
LOL. Wow, got hammered with the 80hz crossover. The funny thing is, Audyssey setup rated the fronts down to 30hz and the surrounds down to 40hz. Yeah, the 3312ci made those speakers sound better than the ever had. BUT THEN I SET THE CROSSOVER TO 80HZ. Or so I thought. I definitely set the sub to LFE. Somewhere was the recommendation to select LFE, NOT LFE + Main. Yet, if fronts are set to small, then LFE+Main gets used. I may've changed the sub FROM LFE+Main to just LFE. That change, in the subwoofer menu, may've changed the fronts from small to large. I was surprised that they weren't, since I'd set them there.

For the record, Netflix programming listed at 5.1 is only showing as 2 channel input on the 3312's display. Anything that may be causing that?

Thanks!

Ken
post #15109 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by c3k View Post

LOL. Wow, got hammered with the 80hz crossover. The funny thing is, Audyssey setup rated the fronts down to 30hz and the surrounds down to 40hz. Yeah, the 3312ci made those speakers sound better than the ever had. BUT THEN I SET THE CROSSOVER TO 80HZ. Or so I thought. I definitely set the sub to LFE. Somewhere was the recommendation to select LFE, NOT LFE + Main. Yet, if fronts are set to small, then LFE+Main gets used. I may've changed the sub FROM LFE+Main to just LFE. That change, in the subwoofer menu, may've changed the fronts from small to large. I was surprised that they weren't, since I'd set them there.
For the record, Netflix programming listed at 5.1 is only showing as 2 channel input on the 3312's display. Anything that may be causing that?
Thanks!
Ken
Change audio decode to Direct?
post #15110 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by c3k View Post

LOL. Wow, got hammered with the 80hz crossover. The funny thing is, Audyssey setup rated the fronts down to 30hz and the surrounds down to 40hz. Yeah, the 3312ci made those speakers sound better than the ever had. BUT THEN I SET THE CROSSOVER TO 80HZ. Or so I thought. I definitely set the sub to LFE. Somewhere was the recommendation to select LFE, NOT LFE + Main. Yet, if fronts are set to small, then LFE+Main gets used. I may've changed the sub FROM LFE+Main to just LFE. That change, in the subwoofer menu, may've changed the fronts from small to large. I was surprised that they weren't, since I'd set them there.
For the record, Netflix programming listed at 5.1 is only showing as 2 channel input on the 3312's display. Anything that may be causing that?
Thanks!
Ken

1. The lowest crossover setting is 40hz.
2. The LFE+Main setting only applies when the front mains are set to LARGE.
3. That's because it's only receiving a 2CH audio track. You must select the 5.1 track on the Netflix panel.
post #15111 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by c3k View Post

LOL. Wow, got hammered with the 80hz crossover. The funny thing is, Audyssey setup rated the fronts down to 30hz and the surrounds down to 40hz. Yeah, the 3312ci made those speakers sound better than the ever had. BUT THEN I SET THE CROSSOVER TO 80HZ. Or so I thought. I definitely set the sub to LFE. Somewhere was the recommendation to select LFE, NOT LFE + Main. Yet, if fronts are set to small, then LFE+Main gets used. I may've changed the sub FROM LFE+Main to just LFE. That change, in the subwoofer menu, may've changed the fronts from small to large. I was surprised that they weren't, since I'd set them there.

For the record, Netflix programming listed at 5.1 is only showing as 2 channel input on the 3312's display. Anything that may be causing that?

Thanks!

Ken

a distinction that needs to be reinforced here... "audyssey" does not set xovers, the avr does based upon the data that audyssey reports... if the folks who designed audyssey had their way, you would never see a speaker set to "large"...

as noted, the lowest is 40hz, so i'm not real sure where the 30hz comes from... confused.gif
post #15112 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

1. The lowest crossover setting is 40hz.
2. The LFE+Main setting only applies when the front mains are set to LARGE.
3. That's because it's only receiving a 2CH audio track. You must select the 5.1 track on the Netflix panel.

Actually- one of the times I used Audyssey and it set the speakers to LARGE and the crossover said "FULL".
post #15113 of 18955
^^
It had likely just eaten. biggrin.gif
post #15114 of 18955
Thread Starter 
that's correct -- if a speaker is "LARGE" then it's full-range by definition.

if you change the sub mode to LFE+MAIN then you have the option to set a "crossover" on a LARGE speaker but that's really just the upper limit (LPF) for the "double bass" sent to the sub.

see this note in the crossover freq section of the manual:

post #15115 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
It had likely just eaten. biggrin.gif

ok, THAT was funny... biggrin.gif i literally lol'd...
post #15116 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by cglenn View Post

I think most TVs when turned on, will be at the same input as when you turned it off. So the easiest for your family is that you remember to always switch the TV to HDMI2 before you turn it off.

Thanks JD: This is indeed what is happening, and it's working well (it defaults to HDMI 2, which essentially means that hitting "tv on" on the cable remote turns it on and it's simple

I've also found that i can stay in HDMI 2 and turn on the avr and select "tv" and it will play cable in surround sound, which is great.

I guess the only thing i'll need to switch over to HDMI 1 for is the dvd? I will set that as pass through. But just to be clear: Is that so it'll allow me to play dvds easily either through just the tv speakers or via the surround? In most cases, the wife and kids don't mind dvds in surround, since I am the one that sets it up (puts in the dvd)

And, just so you don't think my kids are idiots: They are 19 months and 4 years old, respectively.

As for the comments on the Harmony: Tried the 650 and didn't like it. In a few cases it didn't do what it was programmed to do, etc. And I didn't like the toggling, etc and found it very slow to respond (as compared the default remotes). I prefer to just swap btw the remotes I need

At any rate, thanks for all the help
post #15117 of 18955
So there are more functions performed by the HDMI BUS or the HDMI card itself?

So my defective HDMI Card in my Denon 3312CI could also be causing the USB / Network and Receiver Freezing?

I'm really at a loss here. Denon has not sent a new HDMI card yet and it's over two weeks. I think more should be done about the defective HDMI cards in Denon Receivers.
post #15118 of 18955
Actually: Just played around and realized that a) when I use the avr set to tv it's not giving me dolby on stations that should be showing that.
And also: When i switch to HDMI 1 there is nothing at all, just a buzz from the speakers

ugh

the set up is as follows:

TV to AVR via HDMI 1/ARC on tv, into the TV HDMI IN on back of AVR
HDMI from blu ray player to AVR via the BD input in back

TV to cable box via the HDMI 2 input on the tv

Digital optical from tv to cable box

Under the old set up I had the cable box looped to the avr via the set to box input on back of AVR (via hdmi)

What did I do wrong with the new set up?
post #15119 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulany View Post

Thanks JD: This is indeed what is happening, and it's working well (it defaults to HDMI 2, which essentially means that hitting "tv on" on the cable remote turns it on and it's simple
I've also found that i can stay in HDMI 2 and turn on the avr and select "tv" and it will play cable in surround sound, which is great.
I guess the only thing i'll need to switch over to HDMI 1 for is the dvd? Correct. I will set that as pass through. But just to be clear: Is that so it'll allow me to play dvds easily either through just the tv speakers or via the surround? Correct. In most cases, the wife and kids don't mind dvds in surround, since I am the one that sets it up (puts in the dvd)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dulany View Post

Actually: Just played around and realized that a) when I use the avr set to tv it's not giving me dolby on stations that should be showing that.
And also: When i switch to HDMI 1 there is nothing at all, just a buzz from the speakers
ugh
the set up is as follows:
TV to AVR via HDMI 1/ARC on tv, into the TV HDMI IN on back of AVR The video travels "out" of the AVR "to" the TV so the cable connecting the AVR to the TV needs to come from an HDMI Monitor "OUT" jack on the AVR.
HDMI from blu ray player to AVR via the BD input in back
TV to cable box via the HDMI 2 input on the tv
Digital optical from tv to cable box
Under the old set up I had the cable box looped to the avr via the set to box input on back of AVR (via hdmi)
What did I do wrong with the new set up?

Get in the habit of thinking the signal travels "from" the source (ie. cable box, DVD, etc) "to" the TV.
post #15120 of 18955
I think i need to connect cable box to avr via hdmi, correct?

duh
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