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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 569

post #17041 of 18066
1/30/13 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spager View Post

Indio

Not sure if you want to raise your crossover to 110 if Audyssey reads at 40. I would probably set it to 80 hz as Audyssey creators suggest. The reason being that the center channel will decipher more clearly those frequencies. There is a lot of sound effects that are sent to the cc as well as some deep vocals for ex. Shwarzenegger in Total Recall that may fall into those frequencies that the cc will handle better than your sub for a more harmonic experience.

Yep, I plan to play around with various settings. Unfortunately, my "home theater" at the moment, is housed in a portion of my 25x23 foot unfinished basement. Hardly the ideal setup. I suspect one reason the center channel got set to a lower 40hz crossover point, is because it is partially housed in a cabinet, while the identical front L/R speakers are resting free in space. Perhaps once I build some walls and hang drywall, things will be better matched between the front speakers. Probably having the L/R speakers sitting in the middle of a 25x23 foot room with no wall behind them, doesn't do much to enhance their bass output, hence the AVR set their crossovers to 110hz.
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post #17042 of 18066
1/30/13 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

What you are describing is just the basics of bass management -- the whole point is to redirect frequencies below the crossover point from the speaker to the subwoofer. So when you raise the center channel crossover from 40hz to 110Hz, then YES all of that content is now going to the subwoofer.

The same is true for all your other speakers -- the subwoofer channel output from the receiver will take all of the "redirected" bass below the crossover for each channel, combine it with any LFE content (the "point 1" in 5.1), and send the sum of all these signals to the subwoofer.

I read through some of the faq - great info. But would like to get clarification on two items:
  1. The AVR (1712) has a setting for LFE crossover. Based on the faq, this setting is independent of Audyssey, and the recommendation is to set it to 120hz. For some reason my AVR had it set to 80hz, so I bumped it up to 120hz. But I noticed the LFE crossover can be set even higher. The faq mentions LFE is only produced up to 120hz. So I guess there is no reason to set the LFE crossover higher than 120hz on the AVR, even though it allows a higher crossover setting?
  2. The AVR has a setting called "LFE + Main". Based on the faq, my understanding if this is enabled, it will cause LFE to be sent to the subwoofer, and also to any other speakers that are set to "large"? But what if all the other speakers are set to "small"? I assume in that case - enabling the "LFE + Main" setting will have no effect - no LFE will be sent to the "small" speakers?
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post #17043 of 18066
1/30/13 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
So then it would seem you've tried most of the tips suggested in post #3 of this thread, except disabling the "IGMP Proxy setting" (if available) or trying a different brand of router. Also, as noted in post #6 of this thread, a firmware update was released back in Feb 2012 to resolve a similar issue of the 3312CI failing to perform a firmware update so if your unit was mfr'd prior to Feb 2012 (ie. serial number beginning with "1XXXXX", "20XXXX", "21XXX", 22XXX" and has never had a firmware update since that time, a repair facility may be your only option.

Thanks for the added suggestions.

I will try to play with the IGMP Proxy settings this evening, and try from another router/network this weekend (time allowing).

My serial number is 110xxxxxxx, so I am suspecting that my unit was mfr'ed prior to 2/12, which kind of bums me out frown.gif

I'll keep trying and reporting back.

DtF
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post #17044 of 18066
1/30/13 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dru the Fu View Post


4) I'm with you, and as a Network Engineer, my next thought was to use wireshark to see where the packets are going or not going. Especially after noticing in some of my previous attempts (using a continuous ping) that the network connection may drop for about 30 seconds while "Authenticating" to the Denon servers.


A few posts after yours Batpig mentioned that I should maybe try performing the update from another network. I may try that this weekend if time allows. Thanks for the suggestion Batpig. I saw that some folks had to go this route, but it's going ton suck to have to disconnect all my speakers and connected devices. But I'm willing.

All is not TOTALLY lost. With Airplay, we can stream Pandora from our phones. But that's just putting a band aid on the issue and not fully resolving it. I'd like to ultimately fix this firmware update issue, and at least understand why this is happening to my setup.

Had I known you are a network engineer, I would have never listed stuff that you would naturally know like the back of your hand :=)

The suggestion to try the upgrade on someone else's network is great, but certainly a PITA. Of course, after what you've been through you should have the setup down cold by now.
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post #17045 of 18066
1/30/13 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by turquoisewords View Post

Had I known you are a network engineer, I would have never listed stuff that you would naturally know like the back of your hand :=)

The suggestion to try the upgrade on someone else's network is great, but certainly a PITA. Of course, after what you've been through you should have the setup down cold by now.

Haha...yeah, I have become very familiar with the setup of this unit. I am SOOOOO glad that this device has the ability to save and load configurations. This has saved me literally hours upon hours. I had gone through the process of getting EVERYTHING set up and configured the way I like things, then saved the config file to my PC. So now every time I try this firmware upgrade process that includes resets wiping out my config, I simply load the config file back on the unit afterwards to the way things ought to be. Huge time saver and convenience.
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post #17046 of 18066
1/30/13 at 12:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by indio22 View Post

  1. The AVR (1712) has a setting for LFE crossover. Based on the faq, this setting is independent of Audyssey, and the recommendation is to set it to 120hz. For some reason my AVR had it set to 80hz, so I bumped it up to 120hz. But I noticed the LFE crossover can be set even higher. The faq mentions LFE is only produced up to 120hz. So I guess there is no reason to set the LFE crossover higher than 120hz on the AVR, even though it allows a higher crossover setting?
  2. The AVR has a setting called "LFE + Main". Based on the faq, my understanding if this is enabled, it will cause LFE to be sent to the subwoofer, and also to any other speakers that are set to "large"? But what if all the other speakers are set to "small"? I assume in that case - enabling the "LFE + Main" setting will have no effect - no LFE will be sent to the "small" speakers?


1) To be clear, the LFE setting is NOT a "crossover". As JHAz noted in his post above, a "crossover" requires two sides, i.e. the frequencies above go here, the frequencies below go there. The LFE setting is simply a low-pass filter (LPF) that puts an upper limit on the LFE channel. The stuff above that LFE LPF does not get redirected anywhere, so it's not a crossover. Anyway, bottom line is that you should set it at 120Hz and forget it. To your specific question, the reason to leave it at 120Hz and not set it higher is because the 120Hz upper limit to LFE content ONLY applies to the film industry, which adheres to strict standards. With other types of content (especially broadcast TV and multich music) they can be sloppy when mixing their stuff and forget to filter the LFE channel, so setting it higher could allow some higher frequency junk to leak into the LFE and make the sub channel boomy/muddy.

2) Your understand of LFE+MAIN is actually backwards. It's a subwoofer setting, not a speaker setting. Setting LFE+MAIN doesn't change what is sent to the speakers; the LFE channel is ONLY ever sent to the subwoofer, period. What it will do is allow the subwoofer to play "double bass" from speakers set to "large", because otherwise their bass wouldn't be redirected to the subwoofer (since large means "full range"). You are correct that the setting has no effect on speakers set to "small".
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post #17047 of 18066
1/30/13 at 5:46pm
Please forgive me if this is not the appropriate thread for this question.

I currently am using a Lexicon MC1 for my sound processor(input to Cinepro, Sampson and Hafler amps), and a monoprice HDMI switcher for swithing input to a Moome which converts HDMI to VGA input to my Marquee 8110 CRT.

Curt Palme was just here helping me calibrate the Projector and commented on the bad behaviour or the switch when chaning inputs (takes far too long to sync).

Curt suggested that a Denon AVR reciever would handle switching more smoothly, and would probably outperform the Lexicon MC1 in sound processing.

I am hoping to get a recommendation for which AVR unit would best serve my purposes and truly render better sound processing than the MC1.
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post #17048 of 18066
1/30/13 at 5:58pm
Take a few minutes to review post #2 in this thread to see a comparison of the Denon AVR-XX12 models which have been on clearance and likely difficult to obtain as they were replaced by the XX13 models last summer and in a few months the XX14 models. You can also review post #2 in the XX13 Owner's thread as well (linked in my sig).

Although if you're looking at a higher budget level, you'll likely want to consider either the newer Denon 4520CI or Marantz's new flagship pre-pro 8801, each with their own separate owner's threads.
Edited by jdsmoothie - 1/30/13 at 6:04pm
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post #17049 of 18066
1/31/13 at 6:23pm
First a little background. I have an AVR-2312. I've recently switched from AT&T UVerse to DirecTV. One of the differences (improvement IMO) is that with the AT&T STB, you just selected a resolution and it scaled everything. With Directv, there is a native setting so the STB is spitting the native resolution of each program. I have the 2312 set to scale to 1080p which works well to my eyes on my Panasonic plasma.

Now to the issue I'm having. When I've had the AVR on for a while, flipping channels, etc, the gui overlay will go out. No volume indicator, etc. If I try to bring up the AVR menu, it blacks out the screen and displays the menu (it does come back when I turn the menu off). The video playing through the avr is fine (except if I bring up the menu and then it disappears). The only way I've found to restore the GUI overlay is to turn the avr off and back on.

I haven't tried a soft reset. Is this a known issue? Should I set my STB to a fixed res so it's not switching resolutions so frequently? I never lost the gui until the switch to Directv.

Thanks in advance.
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post #17050 of 18066
1/31/13 at 6:25pm
Yes, you're generally better served setting the STB to one resolution (eg. 1080i).
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post #17051 of 18066
1/31/13 at 11:52pm

A few weeks ago I noticed my remote for the 2312 not responding even with newly charged batteries. Sometimes it would work, it was really weird. I thought my rechargeable batteries were busted or the control didn't work well with 1.2v batteries... Anyways, I bought some new Duracell coppertops and the problem was still there. Wtf!

Now im thinking i have to get it repaired. I start looking around the battery compartment and one of the contacts is rusted! I have no idea how that happened, there is no sign of liquid in there. Only the center of the contact is rusted, really weird. I was able to put a piece of foil to make contact and it works great now.

 

How can I remove the rust? I tried sanding it lightly but it didn't take much off.

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post #17052 of 18066
2/1/13 at 2:43am
Can't recall ever reading a post regarding rusting battery contacts so your guess is as good as mine. smile.gif Although you may want to take this time to consider a Harmony remote as it will likely be far more functional in your setup as it would more than likely be able to operate all of your devices to include the Denon.
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post #17053 of 18066
2/1/13 at 3:15am

Photo of the damage...You can see that the center is badly rusted but the rest looks alright. Now I'm wondering if its not rust at all and maybe has something to do with the battery I was using.

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post #17054 of 18066
2/1/13 at 3:17am
That would be my guess .... yes. wink.gif
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post #17055 of 18066
2/1/13 at 3:41am
Hi, I currently own a 55es8000 and I have all my sources connected to my denon (avr 1912) receiver with arc. I have had this tv now for 10 months with this setup. The issue I'm having is each time I turn on my tv it switches sources on my receiver like the tv is preparing to output and I have to manually change the source to cable or etc... Is anyone else having this issue or have a solution?.
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post #17056 of 18066
2/1/13 at 3:44am
Yup. Lots of solutions to problems just like this one are posted in post #3 of this thread to include the answer to your problem ...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_E5
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post #17057 of 18066
2/1/13 at 3:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

I'm answering my own Q here, but I found this info on thesatteliteguys forum.

Try 1360 code for Denon receivers. It worked for me!! Yay!

(That code is for a Dish Hopper remote)

Getting a DishTV Hopper w/ Sling tomorrow! It won best in show at CES!

Any handshake issues with Denon?

Connecting the HWS to a 3312. One of the Joey recievers will be connected to a 1912
Edited by doctorwizz - 2/1/13 at 4:00am
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post #17058 of 18066
2/1/13 at 5:28am
I just bought a refurbished 1613 a week ago (accessories4less) and if I turn on the receiver and it is already on the cable source it won't "pass through" the cable audio/video (not sure if "pass through" is the right language...no sound comes through and no signal sent to tv monitor). If I change the source to say "game" and then change it back to "cable" it will work. I know it's not a big deal and just an inconvenience but I just feel that all should be working properly and if something isn't working properly right now then I'm afraid more problems lie ahead. I'd rather return it for a different one within the 30 day window if that's what I need to do. Any suggestions?

Edit: Also, there has been a time or two where I change the source and it still won't work and takes 2-3 times. And...each time I give it plenty of time to turn on thinking it might just be a delay...but it still won't work. Thanks in advance
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post #17059 of 18066
2/1/13 at 6:17am
Cable and satellite decoder boxes are known to have the poorest HDMI implementations. HDMI/HDCP is still essentially black magic.

Often turning devices on in a particular order helps with the connectivity. Usually that is:

1. Turn on the display (TV or projector). Wait several seconds until it's ready.
2. Turn on the receiver. Wait several seconds until it's ready.
3. Turn on the source device (cable decoder or disc player).

In some cases, the opposite order works better.
In a very few cases, the order doesn't matter.

And in quite a few cases, it'll work reliably only if the cable box's HDMI cable is connected directly to the TV for video and only its audio output (digital or analog) is connected to the receiver.
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post #17060 of 18066
2/1/13 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

Photo of the damage...You can see that the center is badly rusted but the rest looks alright. Now I'm wondering if its not rust at all and maybe has something to do with the battery I was using.


dremel tool with a small wire wheel would be the most effective way to remove the rust. A tooth brush size wire brush would work too, albeit take a little more elbow grease:)
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post #17061 of 18066
2/1/13 at 7:50am
So I recently got an open box 3312. I tried a micro reset and the screen on the avr didn't blink but the standby button kept blinking when I turned it on evenwhen iI didn't do the micro reset. Is the blinking on the TV? I was able to successfully do a firmware update too. If I reset the micro does it lose the firmware as well?
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post #17062 of 18066
2/1/13 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by candy76man View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

Photo of the damage...You can see that the center is badly rusted but the rest looks alright. Now I'm wondering if its not rust at all and maybe has something to do with the battery I was using.

Looks like the results of battery leakage to me.
Quote:


Dremel tool with a small wire wheel would be the most effective way to remove the rust. A tooth brush size wire brush would work too, albeit take a little more elbow grease:)

I'm a bit more old school. Rip off a little chunk of 150 grit sandpaper and rub it around to dislodge the corrosion. For a more permanent fix, tin the freshly cleaned spring with solder, being careful to not overheat the area where the spring touches the plastic case.
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post #17063 of 18066
2/1/13 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyphos View Post

I've just updated the firmware in my brand-new AVR-2112. I checked the version numbers before and after the update so I could see what had changed. For those interested in such things, here are the current rev numbers.

Code:


Module             From factory     After update (20 Feb 2012)
Firmware           ver 0001         ver 1004
Main               0078025          01150034
Main FBL           00.16            00.16
DSP                64.19            64.22
Audio PLD          06.02            06.04
OSD                49110018         49110022



More information on the firmware can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post20422390
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyphos View Post


5/3/12
I downloaded the latest firmware (0006) this week. The overall process took about 90 minutes. This was by far my worst upgrade experience with my 2112. The first three firmware modules (Main, DSP and OSD) arrived without incident. As reported by others here, the EIMG module was a problem. Over the course of 15 to 20 minutes, it would count down from 3 minutes, to 2 minutes, to 1 minute, then start over. It took three tries before EIMG downloaded successfully.

While it was downloading, I put a sniffer on my internet connection and monitored the data transfer. The download comes from a server at 202.218.251.101, which is in Japan somewhere at least 23 router hops away. Reverse DNS entry maps to firmware.denon.jp. The download speed was about 70 kbps. (my internet connection is typically 8-10 Mbps). No TCP errors or retransmit were noted. The slow download speeds might be due to trans-Pacific network congestion, an overloaded Denon server, or some other issue. The reason for the multiple downloads of the EIMG module is unknown.

I checked the Firmware rev numbers after the upgrade process was complete. The new firmware lineup is as follows:
Firmware - 0006
MAIN - 01170036
MAIN FBL - 00.16
DSP - 64.23
Audio PLD - 06.04
OSD - 49110028

The 2112 rebooted successfully after the upgrade completed and has been working fine since. No improvements (nor new bugs) observed.

2/1/13
After several failed attempts, I was finally able to update my 2112 to Release #7 (the Dec 11, 2012 release). I encountered several authentication and connection failures, but eventually (after leaving it overnight) the update appeared to complete successfully.

The firmware lineup now displayed is as follows:
Firmware - 0007
MAIN - 01170036
MAIN FBL - 00.16
DSP - 64.23
Audio PLD - 06.04
OSD - 49110028
Ethernet FBL - 090311-bd
Ethernet SBL - B201112221012-0A
Ethernet IMG - I201212040235

Note than none of the main modules seem to have changed compared to Release #6. Unfortunately, I neglected to record the rev levels of the three Ethernet modules after the previous downloads. It seems that the only thing that changed in Release #7 might have been the Ethernet IMG. Its version number indicates it's dated 2012-12-04. According to the release notes posted by JDS, the only delta in this release was a fix for Pandora, so perhaps that fix is contained in the Ethernet IMG module. I can't access Pandora (not available outside US), so I can't tell if it works any better than before. Post-update, my 2112 seems to be working fine. And it no longer nags my wife telling her there is an update available (which was the only reason I decided to do it).
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post #17064 of 18066
2/1/13 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

So I recently got an open box 3312. I tried a micro reset and the screen on the avr didn't blink but the standby button kept blinking when I turned it on evenwhen iI didn't do the micro reset. Is the blinking on the TV? I was able to successfully do a firmware update too. If I reset the micro does it lose the firmware as well?

Alright, i got the reset to work. Since I did the micro reset after a firmware update, do i need to try and update the firmware again, or is it good to go
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post #17065 of 18066
2/1/13 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

Alright, i got the reset to work. Since I did the micro reset after a firmware update, do i need to try and update the firmware again, or is it good to go

Good to go!
Reset does not affect firmware.
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post #17066 of 18066
2/1/13 at 4:40pm
@kyphos -

There is a firmware "Notification - Update" setting (p. 94) that can be set to OFF to prevent the "update" notice from appearing.
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post #17067 of 18066
2/1/13 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

Alright, i got the reset to work. Since I did the micro reset after a firmware update, do i need to try and update the firmware again, or is it good to go

Once the unit has had the firmware updated, there's no way to go back to an earlier version.
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post #17068 of 18066
2/2/13 at 3:45pm
Well, after having 2 Yamaha's go in the last 4 weeks, I went to Best Buy after seeing a 2312 open box listed online. Once i got to the store I was informed that they didn't have any open box 2312's, but they had a new one that they would honor at the price I saw online. So...I guess I don't really have any questions, just needed to share my enthusiasm at getting this for a steal. cool.gif
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post #17069 of 18066
2/3/13 at 8:50am
Hi Everyone,

Well I just hooked up this AVR to this system: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Speakers/Home+Theater+Speakers/SP-PK51FS

A few questions:

1) What the heck does "Amp Assigned" mean? Mine is set to Zone 2 right now...I have 2 front speakers, center, and 2 surround but no subwoofer as of this moment. Is this the correct setting? I looked around for what this meant but couldn't find it.

2) Is there anyway to 'test" if I set this up correctly? Honestly the sound isnt that great, like I dont hear that much coming from the surround speakers. I ran Audyssey with a tripod just as instructed.

3) I notice a ton of stations that I thought would be broadcast in Dolby are showing on the receiver as "DTS: Neo 6 Cinema." That means I'm not getting a Dolby broadcast, right? For instance, nearly all the HBO stations are giving me this output right now. Even when I switch to a HD station that does show "Dolby" on the AVR, the sound is not all that great (specifically surround speakers).

Just looking for some guidance with setup and testing and tweaking. especially before the big game...if anyone can help it is GREATLY appreciated!

Thank you

P.S. Is there a way to manually adjust the volume level/control for each individual speaker...like if you wanted more volume from the center speaker, hypothetically speaking
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post #17070 of 18066
2/3/13 at 9:29am
Even though you may have just posted yesterday, it always helps to indicate the AVR model number you have (2112CI in this case) as we cover 7 different models in this thread. Thanks.

1. AMP ASSIGN allows you to "assign" the the Surr Back/Amp Assign speaker posts to several other settings as noted in your owner's manual. The factory default setting is Zone 2 and is the correct setting with a 5.1 or 5.0 setup.

2. Your ears? Have you read the Audyssey 101/FAQ linked in my sig to ensure you have setup AUdyssey properly?

3. The AVR can only play what it receives. Not all stations that indicate DD actually broadcast in DD 5.1. Note that when the display reads DTS Neo:6, that is just one of the simulation modes used when a stereo signal is received. The more common setting woud be DD PLII - Cinema if you want to change it by pressing the MOVIE button on your Denon remote. Note also that normally there isn't going to much audio going to the side surrounds unless you're playing an action movie with a lot of sound effeccts. For the Superbowl, you may prefer using the "Mult CH Stereo" surround mode which will play the FL/FR audio in the SL/SR speakers and is generally a better mode to use with parties or when lots of people are milling around and the 5.1 surround sound isn't so important.

4. Yes. Press the "CH Level" button on the remote (noted in yellow in image below) and select the speaker/sub you want to adjust and then adjust the volume accordingly.




5. If you do a lot of movie/TV watching, you'll want to add a comparable sub to your setup sooner rather than later. wink.gif
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread