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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 587

post #17581 of 18978
from MONOPRICE "Note that HDMI Cables with RedMere are directional. One end must be connected to the source device (e.g., blu-ray player) and the other end to the sink/display (e.g., HDTV). Hooking them up backwards will not damage anything, they just won't transmit a signal. Also note that these cables are fully compatible with switches, splitters, matrix devices, etc. They can be used in any application in which a normal HDMI cable can be used and many applications where HDMI extenders would otherwise be required!"

directional being the operative word...
post #17582 of 18978
methcat,

I suspect it's the same restriction as Windows has: you can't update a device's driver software if the device's driver software is currently in use. When "network standby" is On, the network device's driver software is in constant use.
post #17583 of 18978
Why does my 2112ci not like my router? (WRT54G2) I know it's old but it's stable. My 360 likes it, my laptop likes it, and everything else that connects to it. When I try to listen to internet radio, after awhile it it disconnects. What routers work?
post #17584 of 18978
makes sense...
post #17585 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by douglas-b View Post

Why does my 2112ci not like my router? (WRT54G2) I know it's old but it's stable. My 360 likes it, my laptop likes it, and everything else that connects to it. When I try to listen to internet radio, after awhile it it disconnects. What routers work?

Recommended routers/bridges .....

Router
Cisco WRT-100
Cisco E3200
Linksys BEFSX41
Netgear N600 3400v2
Netgear WNDR-3800
Netgear WNDR4500
Airport Extreme

Bridge (connected to AVR provides wireless connection to the home's wifi router)
Cisco WRT-54G
TRENDnet TEW-640MB
Airport Extreme
Airport Express
Linksys WET610N
Netgear WN2000RPT - 4 port
Netgear WN2500RP

Other
Netgear XAVB5004 Powerline Network Adapter (4-port) (on AVR set Network Standby/IP Control to ON/Always ON)
D-Link Powerline Adapter
post #17586 of 18978
Thanks jdsmoothie.
post #17587 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by methcat View Post

the hdmi board was for a 2809 and was in the 300-400 dollar range. i don't know how much they cost for the 12's but i seem to remember seeing a thread where someone was going to be charged closer to 600 for (with labor). i happened to find a loose board online for $100, and just swapped it myself. worked fine. the boad on that unit was a little tricky because of a few daughter cards that made it tought to remove, but not too bad. i'd have junked it otherwise.

they also told me in general they do not repair hdmi boards, only replace.

Thx

Yup looks like HDMI board cost about $459 WTF

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/8U6331007600D

Don't throw away your dead AVRs! Sell the parts! biggrin.gif
Edited by doctorwizz - 4/2/13 at 5:53pm
post #17588 of 18978
As has been noted before in this thread, Monoprice has a "branded" 5.1 setup for a low price and now Amazon has the Monoprice setup on an even better sale for anyone looking for an inexpensive, but quality 5.1 setup especially for smaller rooms.....

http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-5-1-Channel-Satellite-Speakers-Subwoofer/dp/B007YLQUWK
Edited by jdsmoothie - 4/3/13 at 3:14am
post #17589 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
If the Blu Ray player has a "Deep Color Output" setting, set it to OFF. Cable boxes often have HDMI handshake issues (audio and/or video) so the best configuration is HDMI from the box to the TV with optical from the box to the AVR. PCs can be tricky as well. Give the tips in the below post a try ....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_L12

Also try powering on the devices in a different order, although TV, wait a few seconds, AVR, wait a few seconds, then source device generally works best.

Also give the HDMI HDCP reset a try as well ...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_L11

Thanks JD, I will check those settings when I can wrestle the TV off the family, I also think I did the HDMI reset first up before buying another cable but it can't hurt to do it again. Would the system reset not be the same thing?
The annoying part is the video might not drop out for a 2 hour movie or DVD, and other times I swear I am going to wear out my remote. I still haven't worked out the by-pass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

If your problem is related to excessive handshake requests caused by a poor HDMI cable setup it's important to realize that HDMI has it's own logic. In addition to the excellent suggestions you've already received, you need to take a different approach with your HDMI cables. Think of each HDMI path from your source devices to your display as a complete HDMI string. Handshake problems can be triggered at any point along that total HDMI string including all HDMI connections.

One source of HDMI caused repeated handshake problems is poor connections. Heavy and/or stiff HDMI cables can cause poor connections because of the strain they put on each connection. HDMI cables can also cause excessive handshake requests if they aren't high speed cables and your bandwidth requirements are too high.

If your HDMI cables seem stiff or heavy to you, it might be worth trying a couple of these Redmere cables for your Blu-ray connection to the 3312, and for the connection from your 3312 to your display.

RedMere - High Performance HDMI Cables

Cable boxes and personal computers can both be flaky. I would try to solve the Blu-ray to display path first. As suggested earlier, you could reroute both the cable box and the PC direct to the display with audio going to your AVR via coax or optical from the source.

I will concentrate on the Blu-ray player,

I looked up the prices on the Redmere cables, they are not too bad but the cost of postage/shipping to Australia $37 or $39 eek.gifeek.gif That really bumped the price up. My cables are heavy and they have to change direction several times. Another cost to bear I guess, but smaller lighter cables would be much better. Also the lighter cables appeal to me, I prefer lighter hardware.
post #17590 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post


How did you set Dynamic Volume? Were you playing audio with dialogue at the level you wanted to listen at when you enabled it?...

this is an old post in here, but, i didn't realize it mattered at what volume you implement DV. i thought it was just a % compression across the spectrum. Is there any info on this listed somewhere?
post #17591 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorwizz View Post

Thx

Yup looks like HDMI board cost about $459 WTF

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/8U6331007600D

Don't throw away your dead AVRs! Sell the parts! biggrin.gif

yeah, and that's for the 2312. the 3312 is 514....(540 at pacparts)

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/8U6331007800D
post #17592 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Power View Post

I looked up the prices on the Redmere cables, they are not too bad but the cost of postage/shipping to Australia $37 or $39 eek.gifeek.gif That really bumped the price up. My cables are heavy and they have to change direction several times. Another cost to bear I guess, but smaller lighter cables would be much better. Also the lighter cables appeal to me, I prefer lighter hardware.
Australia!! I keep forgetting. redface.gif

Here is a source for Redmere technology in Australia. I'm not sure that it's cheaper.

Cut Price Cables

It might be simpler to test your HDMI chain with some kind of temporary setup to insure that there is minimum strain on the connections, and also do some tests that reduce bandwidth demands to verify that your cables are performing as high speed cables. If you can set your Blu-ray player to send 1080i, 720p or 480i to your display and it works, that would be an indicator that your cables aren't high speed cables.
Edited by htwaits - 4/3/13 at 12:23pm
post #17593 of 18978
Sorry if this has been asked, but 587 pages is too much to look through, and a search did not give me the answers I was looking for. Wondering if it is possible to watch the screen with say, a football game on it without sound, and use zone2 to play pandora, i have a projector set up and 5.1 audio now, but plan to add 2 speakers in the rear of my room which is a bar area, so instead of listening to the program that is on I could play pandora on the 2 rear channels? or play both audio sources at once, but in the 2 separate zones? It is a 1912 by the way. if I can do this, is there a special way I have to wire it? right now I have all of my devices ran through the receiver, and one hdmi running to the PJ.
post #17594 of 18978
Thread Starter 
Yes, this is possible. You would configure AMP ASSIGN as Zone 2, which converts the Surr.Back amps to an independent Zone 2. Then you can fire up Pandora or Internet Radio or whatever in Zone 2 while something else is happening in Main Zone.
post #17595 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrader View Post

Sorry if this has been asked, but 587 pages is too much to look through, and a search did not give me the answers I was looking for. Wondering if it is possible to watch the screen with say, a football game on it without sound, and use zone2 to play pandora, i have a projector set up and 5.1 audio now, but plan to add 2 speakers in the rear of my room which is a bar area, so instead of listening to the program that is on I could play pandora on the 2 rear channels? or play both audio sources at once, but in the 2 separate zones? It is a 1912 by the way. if I can do this, is there a special way I have to wire it? right now I have all of my devices ran through the receiver, and one hdmi running to the PJ.

Post #3 of this thread covers many questions to include your Zone 2 question (although already answered by batpig).

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_M
post #17596 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Post #3 of this thread covers many questions to include your Zone 2 question (although already answered by batpig).

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_M

I love to watch a ball game & listen to pandora or the local sports broadcast on zone 2 (surround back)
post #17597 of 18978
Another Zone 2 question. Using the Denon 2312CI SURR.BACK/AMP ASSIGN to run the Z2 speakers (ie not using PreOuts). First time I've done this, and I can't get it to work reliably.

At one point I got them to play, I believe I changed to another input while remote in Z2, then back to correct input. Zone 2 speakers played beautifully. Cannot get this to recur.

2312CI. Speakers connected to SURR.BACK/AMP ASSIGN. AMP ASSIGN set to ZONE 2. Analog source (from headphone jack of external mp3 player; volume is Up) to CD In RCAs (or to Front V.AUX RCAs, same issue). Sound plays fine on Main system. With the remote, select ZONE SELECT - Z2. (Also then press AMP). ZONE/DEVICE I and amp display indicates ZONE 2 On and Z2 shows top of display. Remote display shows (green flash) outputs on Z2. Amp display indicates the remote successfully adjusting Volume for Zone2 (without changing Main system volume) - but no sound from Zone2 speakers. Correct input is selected while in Z2.

I'm sure speaker wiring is good eg when I unplug the Z2 speakers from amp rear and measure DC resistance to each speaker, the readings make sense (a bit over 4ohms in each case).
Amp has been without power overnight several times.

Am I missing something obvious?
Try factory Reset to Factory Defaults and then network reload the saved Config?
Cant think what else to do.
Thanks !
Edited by chrisbbb - 4/6/13 at 2:59am
post #17598 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Australia!! I keep forgetting. redface.gif

Here is a source for Redmere technology in Australia. I'm not sure that it's cheaper.

Cut Price Cables

It might be simpler to test your HDMI chain with some kind of temporary setup to insure that there is minimum strain on the connections, and also do some tests that reduce bandwidth demands to verify that your cables are performing as high speed cables. If you can set your Blu-ray player to send 1080i, 720p or 480i to your display and it works, that would be an indicator that your cables aren't high speed cables.

Just did a price compare. As I am looking at 5 cables cheaper to buy from the States, Boy do I feel ripped off when I look at your prices, But that is the price we pay for being under populated..

Just doing the other checks now as they don't require cable replacement.

Thanks for your help on the cables as well.
post #17599 of 18978
Just done two dvd's with out the video dropping out, changed the setting to 1080i,

time to buy new cables

Thanks for help
post #17600 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Power View Post

Just done two dvd's with out the video dropping out, changed the setting to 1080i,

time to buy new cables

Thanks for help
Your welcome. It's too bad the Redmere ultra slim cables cost so much to ship. One more thing, the advise I've been reading recently is that it's best to use 6' HDMI cables or longer. The ports that you connect the cables to have been optimized for 6' or longer cables.
Edited by htwaits - 4/7/13 at 12:20am
post #17601 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisbbb View Post

Another Zone 2 question. Using the Denon 2312CI SURR.BACK/AMP ASSIGN to run the Z2 speakers (ie not using PreOuts). First time I've done this, and I can't get it to work reliably.

At one point I got them to play, I believe I changed to another input while remote in Z2, then back to correct input. Zone 2 speakers played beautifully. Cannot get this to recur.

2312CI. Speakers connected to SURR.BACK/AMP ASSIGN. AMP ASSIGN set to ZONE 2. Analog source (from headphone jack of external mp3 player; volume is Up) to CD In RCAs (or to Front V.AUX RCAs, same issue). Sound plays fine on Main system. With the remote, select ZONE SELECT - Z2. (Also then press AMP). ZONE/DEVICE I and amp display indicates ZONE 2 On and Z2 shows top of display. Remote display shows (green flash) outputs on Z2. Amp display indicates the remote successfully adjusting Volume for Zone2 (without changing Main system volume) - but no sound from Zone2 speakers. Correct input is selected while in Z2.

I'm sure speaker wiring is good eg when I unplug the Z2 speakers from amp rear and measure DC resistance to each speaker, the readings make sense (a bit over 4ohms in each case).
Amp has been without power overnight several times.

Am I missing something obvious?
Try factory Reset to Factory Defaults and then network reload the saved Config?
Cant think what else to do.
Thanks !

If status shows the "CD" source is selected for Zone 2 and it's still not working, they try a factory reset after first using the Web Control feature to SAVE your config file to a PC.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_E10

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_M
post #17602 of 18978
jdsmoothie, thanks, Factory Reset coming up.
post #17603 of 18978
I am currently using my PS3 for blu ray and games. I am able to get my AVR 3312 to display Dolby TrueHD when I play blu ray. However, my games are showing up as multi channel. Is this normal?
post #17604 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by denon3312 View Post

I am currently using my PS3 for blu ray and games. I am able to get my AVR 3312 to display Dolby TrueHD when I play blu ray. However, my games are showing up as multi channel. Is this normal?

Yes.
No audio quality is lost.

Seeing "multichannel" just means that the audio is being sent over HDMI as multichannel PCM, which is the easiest audio format to generate. If the audio were compressed using either Dolby or DTS encodings, the game companies would have to pay royalties to Dolby and/or DTS, and the receiver would have to decode the audio into PCM anyhow.

Of course, sending multichannel audio over an optical or coax digital audio connection has to be done using either Dolby or DTS. I don't know how they handle the licensing for that. My assumption is that it's handled by the manufacturer of the game console hardware, with all of the gaming software companies paying a share.
post #17605 of 18978
Can anyone clarify on the way Denon rate the power ratings?
I just read this thread, where guys are complaining about Denon's 3313 power:
Quote:
125 wpc for 2 channels but dropps to like 79 wpc in 7 channel mode they made it sound like 125 per channel which it is not..
deceptive marketing.. but all the companys do it..

i added an external amp wow what a difference in the sound quality...
Quote:
Denon rates their AVRs like everybody else, 2 channels = X, 7 channels = X * 0.6 (appr.).

By the way, I have a Denon 3312.
post #17606 of 18978
Thread Starter 
Most of the people in that thread don't know what they are talking about.

Denons will meet or exceed their power specs with 2 channels driven, and fall short of the rated spec with 5/7 channels driven, just like any other receiver.

What exactly is your concern? Are you having problems or are you just looking for something to worry about based on some guy complaining on an internet forum? wink.gif
post #17607 of 18978
Each channel has the ability to put out it's rated output on it's own if it's the only channel operating but not in tandem with other channels. Denon and almost everybody else rates their stuff like this. Unless You are willing to drop some big bucks on higher rated gear I wouldn't worry about it.
post #17608 of 18978
Thread Starter 
The important thing to understand is that the spec is perfectly accurate, as each amp channel IS identical and discrete, and capable of putting out the rated output individually. The limitation is the POWER SUPPLY of the receiver which can't sustain the current to allow that full level of output to all channels simultaneously.

Also, it's worth keeping in mind that these "all channels driven" tests are useful as a benchmark but are not really indicative of real world use. You aren't going to get that kind of identical, full output to all channels simultaneously with real content.
post #17609 of 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Most of the people in that thread don't know what they are talking about.

Feel free to pop in and sort us out then. wink.gif
post #17610 of 18978
Thread Starter 
I said "most" not "all". smile.gif In retrospect thought that was too harsh, I was really only referring to a few of the posters.

My overall point is that the alarmist tone of some of the posts is overwrought and unnecessary. All consumer AVR's play the same game with their rated power specs, but it is really not very meaningful in real world use. 80 watts vs. 120 watts is maybe a 1-2dB difference in max headroom. Nothing to be bitter or pissed about. Denons do as well or better in bench tests than any other comparable brand.
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