The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 110

you are correct that the 3312 is the lowest model with pre-outs. You could probably save some cash by calling around to authorized dealers and finding a 3311 model from last year on clearance pricing.

I summarize the differences between the two models in this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post20527677

no, that's simply not how it works at all.

regardless of where the volume is set, the receiver will put out as much power as is needed, which will be constantly fluctuating depending on the content. Furthermore, how much power is required to get your speakers to a specific volume is going to depend on your speakers, your room, and other factors.


there's basically no reason to ever go to max volume. You will likely never exceed "0" on the dial, and spend most of your time between -30 and -10. The Denon has a protection circuit to save itself from overheating, but you can absolutely damage your speakers by overdriving them or the amps to clipping/distortion.

rule of thumb: if it sounds good, you aren't hurting anything. As long as the speakers sound clean and undistorted, you aren't going to blow them or the receiver.

as CP pointed out, there can be a lot of gamesmanship with power ratings. It totally depends on how the rating is done -- what distortion level? how many channels driven?

Furthermore, even if the ratings were 100% accurate and apples-to-apples, the difference between 90w and 105w is negligible (less than 1dB difference in max headroom).

Entry-level Yamahas (along with Sony) are notoriously bad about overstating power ratings on entry level models. In most cases, you are better off using msrp as a rough gauge of power over the mfgr's specs. Do you really think an 18.5lb, $379msrp receiver has as much power as $1000 receivers weighing 30lbs+ which are also rated at 100-120 w/ch? The power of the new Denon unit (despite the rating) should be at least as good as the Yamaha it replaced.


most receivers will have no problem meeting their ratings with 2 channels driven. Each individual amp channel can handily meet its spec'd rating. It's when all 5 or 7 channels are going that you run into the real limiting factor -- the bottleneck of the single shared power supply.

as an example, here's a bench test of the Yamaha 463 (essentially the same as your 465): http://www.hometheater.com/content/y...-labs-measures

in stereo mode it hit 0.1% THD at 101 watts ant 1% distortion at 121 watts... so basically right at the rated spec. But with all 5 channels going, it could only manage 30-something watts per channel (only ~30% of rated power). Which is what you'd expect from a $350, 18lb entry level receiver.

Denons in general will exceed their power ratings in stereo mode, and not fall off quite so much with all channels driven. Here's a bench test of the 2311ci model from last year, which on the surface has the exact same 105w/ch rating as your Yamaha 465: http://www.hometheater.com/content/d...-labs-measures

note that it actually puts out 126 watts (0.1% THD) to 154 watts (1% THD) in stereo mode, and maintains 80%+ of its rated power with 5 channels driven. So despite the identical rating of 105w/ch, it handily outperforms the Yamaha 465 (especially in multichannel tests where it has more than double the available power). Which, again, is what you'd expect given that the Denon costs more than double the price (msrp) and weighs 30% more.

and to be clear, there is NOTHING that will let the Denon remote control the PS3, the solutions available (such as the Harmony PS3 adapter) will only work with universal remotes.

No, only the test tones will be exactly at 75dB, because they are defined at a specific volume. Actual content will vary quite a bit.

The test tones are 30dbfs (decibels below full scale), and "full scale" in movie soundtracks is defined as 105dB per channel. 105 minus 30 means the tones are designed to play at 75dB on a calibrated system -- by calibrating to this known reference, then you know that (when the volume is at "0") if the film mixer put a sound at, say, 82dB, then you will also hear it in your room at 82dB.

But it does NOT mean that the volume will be exactly 75dB. It will only be 75dB if the sound was recorded to play at 75dB. At "reference", most film soundtracks will play at approximately 85dB average level, with peaks up to 100-105dB, and softer sounds (e.g. quiet dialogue) much softer than 85dB.

yes and yes

note that with smaller rooms, "reference" volume can be painful to listen to because of the amount of reflected sound.... so even though it's the same volume as in a movie theater, which might not be painful, it may be too much for your space. Most people listen 10-15dB below reference in their homes when playing a movie loud, which is why Dynamic EQ exists to compensate for the change in tonal balance.

the "offset" value that appears on the display is an internal setting (called DIALNORM) for Dolby Digital signals, which allows the decoder to know at what level to set the track for appropriate dialogue volume and dynamic range: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialnorm

you cannot change this and it doesn't affect anything negatively, just ignore it.

to be clear, this is not to be confused with the "Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset" (found in Audio Adjust > Audyssey Settings), which IS intended to offset the effective reference level and thus lessen the strength of the "boost" that Dynamic EQ applies.