or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 12

post #331 of 18969
I just picked up a clearance 791 at a good price but find I don't need the upscaling. The 1712 would run me an extra $100 when it comes out. Would it be a worthwhile investment for the jump to MultEQ XT or would the difference be slight?
post #332 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As long as the wire connections at both the AVR and speaker are visually confirmed to be connected correctly (ie. +/+ and -/-) then you're good to go. Simply ignore the warning and press SKIP to move on as the manual indicates. Some speakers are intentionally wired out of phase. ).

Understood. That is what I have done up to this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Just an FYI here .. by "change" it means to add additional speakers to the setup as changing the channel level (volume), speaker size (LARGE to SMALL which should be done for all speakers the AVR sets to LARGE if there is a subwoofer present), or increasing a speaker's crossover up to 80hz can all be done without impacting the Audyssey filters (as these settings are made by the AVR and not Audyssey).

The settings that the Audyssey calculates for my speaker set up have so far been very pleasing for both HD Cable and DVD. However, I find that the surrounds are getting much higher levels sent to them than my floor standing speakers (Paradigm Monitor 7s) when playing SACD or DVD-A music from an OPPO BDP-93 HDMI. Left to right balance is fine, but the front to rear soundstage seems to be leaning towards the rear and hence more prevelant high/mid range with some washing out of the front L/R.
post #333 of 18969
Thread Starter 
that is Dynamic EQ interacting with "non film" material. Dyn EQ boosts the surrounds but is calibrated to work with film soundtracks, which are all mixed at the same "reference level". Non-film material (especially music, cable TV and video games) often is mastered at different levels, so Dyn EQ can end up boosting TOO much.

go to Audio Adjust > Audyssey Settings and set the "Dyn EQ Reference Level offset" to 10 or 15. That should do the trick.
post #334 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

that is Dynamic EQ interacting with "non film" material. Dyn EQ boosts the surrounds but is calibrated to work with film soundtracks, which are all mixed at the same "reference level". Non-film material (especially music, cable TV and video games) often is mastered at different levels, so Dyn EQ can end up boosting TOO much.

go to Audio Adjust > Audyssey Settings and set the "Dyn EQ Reference Level offset" to 10 or 15. That should do the trick.

Much obliged for that trick! I had read it in the manual but it didn't sink in until you mentioned it. I'll give it a try later today and see how it sounds.
post #335 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by 720p View Post

mjpearce023 I have already wasted my wire when I bi-wired my speakers. I'd like to bi-amp them instead. I know its a single amp in the receiver and I won't pretend I understand how power is spread to the speakers but I know this. My current amp is rated at:
130w x 7 = 910w (dreamland figure)
When tested it did:
138w x 1 = 138w
116w x 2 = 232w
38w x 5 = 190w
Therefore in my simple mind I conclude that bi-amping must somehow make a difference even if your valid test says otherwise. Then there is also the controversial matter of it "sounding better" mainly due to claims of cleaner power to the hights as separate from the lows which are power hungry, etc.
I know it sounds pointless but my theater is one of my hobbies and the more tickering/playing available the better I say.
As an additional note my rears are lower in volume than my fronts/center, must be because of the bi-wiring of the former

I'm not saying you shouldn’t bi-amp your fronts if you already have it setup that way. I was just commenting that adding an amp would provide more power while getting a 9 channel receiver to biamp the surrounds will not as beneficial. Your receiver is still sending full range signals to your tweeter and woofer so you power is not any cleaner from bi-amping. As your numbers show, the total power of your receiver goes down as you add more channels so your receiver would be putting out about the same power overall than if you just ran 5 channels.
Your rears are probably lower because they are closer to your seating position. If bi-amping gave you more power to your fronts, the rears would have to be higher to compensate.
post #336 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDude View Post

I did hear that they were putting the squeeze on but I just recently ordered the Denon D2000 headphones from one of those retailers for $190 shipped to CA which was a massive savings over their list price.

Pretty sure you just have to "call in".

Calling is indeed the trick. I am not a terribly competitive shopper and had ordered a 2112ci from Crutchfield a couple of weeks ago at MSRP. It was supposed to arrive tomorrow. Unbeknownst to me, my wife (who didn't know I had already ordered the 2112) just bought the exact same receiver from J&R as an early Father's Day gift. She isn't much of a haggler at all but when she called in she was able to get a price slightly better than the Vann's price mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Fortunately, she spilled the beans on the gift so I was able to divert the Crutchfield delivery. So it looks like any attempt by Denon to get authorized dealers to stick to MSRP isn't working very well (assuming they are really trying).
post #337 of 18969
I have a naive question about using external AMP with 3312.

Can I connect 3312's preout to an external 3 channel AMP to drive L/C/R and 3312 itself to drive two back channels at the same time when watching movie? The reason I am asking because I just bought 3 4ohm speakers as L/C/R (good for music) and want to keep my cheap old two bookshelf (8ohm) as back since they are that important to me and only to be used during the movie.

Or I have to get a 5 channel AMP?

thanks for jds and batpig inputs.
post #338 of 18969
^^^^

You can use a 3 channel amp and let the receiver handle the surrounds. Just make sure you run audyssey so the channels will be level.
post #339 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by queequeg99 View Post

Calling is indeed the trick. I am not a terribly competitive shopper and had ordered a 2112ci from Crutchfield a couple of weeks ago at MSRP. It was supposed to arrive tomorrow. Unbeknownst to me, my wife (who didn't know I had already ordered the 2112) just bought the exact same receiver from J&R as an early Father's Day gift. She isn't much of a haggler at all but when she called in she was able to get a price slightly better than the Vann's price mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Fortunately, she spilled the beans on the gift so I was able to divert the Crutchfield delivery. So it looks like any attempt by Denon to get authorized dealers to stick to MSRP isn't working very well (assuming they are really trying).

I was considering cashing in some of my citi thank you points for J&R gift certs. I think hearing that was exactly what I needed to push the button on those.
post #340 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Ruff View Post

I was considering cashing in some of my citi thank you points for J&R gift certs. I think hearing that was exactly what I needed to push the button on those.

This is what I did and I ordered a 2112 yesterday. The guy said he only had 4 left in stock and offered me a $20 discount. I was kind of caught by surprise by his proactive discount and didn't try to haggle further, since the J&R gift cards from Citi never feel like "real" money to me.
post #341 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppddinCA View Post

Can I connect 3312's preout to an external 3 channel AMP to drive L/C/R and 3312 itself to drive two back channels at the same time when watching movie?

To add to MJP's response .. you can add external amps to some or all of the channels you have connected to the 3312CI, although the channels requiring the most power are the L/C/R so either a 2CH or 3CH amp is appropriate (most especially with 4Ω speakers). The AVR can easily drive the remaining 2-4 surround channels on it's own.
post #342 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spud View Post


This is what I did and I ordered a 2112 yesterday. The guy said he only had 4 left in stock and offered me a $20 discount. I was kind of caught by surprise by his proactive discount and didn't try to haggle further, since the J&R gift cards from Citi never feel like "real" money to me.

$20? Or 20%? Past years have seen 20-25 even 30% right out the gate...
post #343 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

$20? Or 20%? Past years have seen 20-25 even 30% right out the gate...

Myself, I'm waiting on 30%. First retailer to offer that and I'll jump on it. J&R and Electronics Expo, it's all up to you LOL
post #344 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

$20? Or 20%? Past years have seen 20-25 even 30% right out the gate...

30% ?? Really???? That seems a tad steep but maybe its just me. I mean that would drop the 3312 to around $700
post #345 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iusteve View Post


30% ?? Really???? That seems a tad steep but maybe its just me. I mean that would drop the 3312 to around $700

Yes..I recall the 3310 at that disc..
post #346 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

Yes..I recall the 3310 at that disc..

Was this a discount code, a "call in" price or some other special? That was back when the economy was really struggling, maybe they did it then to help stimulate their numbers?! I sure hope they do it again. If you see this please let me (and others ) know.....but me first
post #347 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iusteve View Post


Was this a discount code, a "call in" price or some other special? That was back when the economy was really struggling, maybe they did it then to help stimulate their numbers?! I sure hope they do it again. If you see this please let me (and others ) know.....but me first

Sure...as a note the best deal ever on the 3310(65*)4 was right in the members section of AVS. It was via Amazon and was a deal of the day..
post #348 of 18969
^^
The 3310CI was really an exception as it was overpriced at MSRP $1499 when it really should have been $1199 (like the 2809CI and 3311CI) so it was selling at 40% off MSRP within a month or two after being released.
post #349 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

To add to MJP's response .. you can add external amps to some or all of the channels you have connected to the 3312CI, although the channels requiring the most power are the L/C/R so either a 2CH or 3CH amp is appropriate (most especially with 4Ω speakers). The AVR can easily drive the remaining 2-4 surround channels on it's own.

Thank you MJP and JDS for the response. That's all I want to know and could save me a couple of hundred dollar.
post #350 of 18969
Set up my 2112CI last night, took about 20 minutes (glad I labeled everything), love the on screen menu wizards, ran Audyssey MultEQ XT setup, took about 5 minutes, no issues, sounds great and my PQ seems to have improved too, much much deeper blacks and crystal clear, thinking my old H/K HDMI switch or video processing was really messing things up because the same game (LA Noire) played Monday night looked completely different last night. Then I started watching Apocalypse Now and it was perfect. Didn't get to play too much with it as it was late, but it's already networked and internet radio works, but I couldn't figure anything else out.
post #351 of 18969
^^
Glad to hear you're enjoying your new 2112CI. The On screen Wizard is new and is designed to make the installation process much easier. Keep in mind there is no video chip installed, so the video quality improvement you're seeing is likely due to the removal of your old setup as apparently it was degrading the signal. Also, 5 minutes to run AUTO SETUP seems a bit short unless you only have 2 speakers. You'll want to run all 8 positions, with the 1st position at your main listening position and the remaining 7 positions within a 2'-3' radius around that #1 position (rather than in actual seats).
post #352 of 18969
I'm only running 5.1, but subwoofer is currently off, and I only have 2 listening positions (small room). I ran through it pretty quick last night due to the time, so I will definitely be going through it again properly tonight. It still sounded fantastic, so I can't wait to tweak it to perfection.
post #353 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

that is Dynamic EQ interacting with "non film" material. Dyn EQ boosts the surrounds but is calibrated to work with film soundtracks, which are all mixed at the same "reference level". Non-film material (especially music, cable TV and video games) often is mastered at different levels, so Dyn EQ can end up boosting TOO much.

go to Audio Adjust > Audyssey Settings and set the "Dyn EQ Reference Level offset" to 10 or 15. That should do the trick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimklo View Post

Much obliged for that trick! I had read it in the manual but it didn't sink in until you mentioned it. I'll give it a try later today and see how it sounds.


OK, so last evening I experience what George Carlin once called a "Heavy Mystery".

I checked both my surrounds at the speaker and the receiver and they were wired correctly.

Checked the channel levels and the surrounds were both around +8.5dB...a little hot but not too bad. All others were right at 0dB.

Reran Auto Setup. This time I used the same position for the main listening position and second measurement. When I've run it before, positions 3-6 were about 5 feet left/right of the main, but I moved the mic out to the perimeter of our family room, closer to each Front L/R and Surround L/R. Our family room is about 30 x 18.

Still got the out of phase warning on Surround Left, which I skipped.

Once I finished setup, I dropped the SACD of Talking Heads "Little Creatures" into the BDP-93 so I could set the DynEQ Reference Level. I listened to this SACD on Saturday and it sounded as if David Bryne singing from across an auditorium with no mic.

As soon as the disc started playing, the room was filled with the rich and wonderful sound of 5.1, perfectly balanced L/R and F/R!?!? Did not even touch the Ref Level. A few more SACD and DVD-A auditions were equally as great.

Just for good measure, I set the ref level to 5. Channel levels for the surrounds were now between +7.0-8.0 dB, and rest still around 0.

I can't imagine that the change in mic positions for setup would change the levels that drastically, or am I wrong?
post #354 of 18969
Yes, changing the mic position will indeed have an impact which is why a "tighter" grouping generally provides better results ... ie. positions 2-6 should be within a 2'-3' radius of the #1 position (rather than placed where people actually sit). Also, apparently you either have very inefficient surround speakers or they are much farther away then they ideally should be which is why the 1612 has raised their volume levels well above 0db ... normally those values would be in the negative range as ideally the "side" speakers are just off to your side and raised about 2'-3' above your head.
post #355 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes, changing the mic position will indeed have an impact which is why a "tighter" grouping generally provides better results ... ie. positions 2-6 should be within a 2'-3' radius of the #1 position (rather than placed where people actually sit). Also, apparently you either have very inefficient surround speakers or they are much farther away then they ideally should be which is why the 1612 has raised their volume levels well above 0db ... normally those values would be in the negative range as ideally the "side" speakers are just off to your side and raised about 2'-3' above your head.

That is what I'm scratching my head about. My first few setups were done in the "tighter" configuration you describe and resulted in substandard performance, but the one last night was with the mic close to the perimeter of the room for measures 3-6 and the sound is now fantastic, although the levels for the surrounds did not change that drastically.

The surrounds (Cambridge Soundworks Newton MC105s) are on-wall, slightly behind the main position and are about 2'-3' above our heads. BUT...because of the room size (30' long) and where our A/V equipment is located (about halfway down the length of the room), they are mounted at each end of the length of the room. The mains are located across the shorter width of the room, but again with L/R separated by the length of the room.
post #356 of 18969
Apparently due to the layout of your room ... the more expanded mic positions work for you. Helps to experiment for sure.
post #357 of 18969
For the Airplay feature, as long as the AVR is connected to my network, it'll stream media using my wireless router from any connected device (iPhone, desktop iTunes)? Then with the Apple Remote app, I can control everything from my iPhone?

I don't need the dock accessory or anything for this to work?
post #358 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Apparently due to the layout of your room ... the more expanded mic positions work for you. Helps to experiment for sure.
We loves our toys. Now it's time for enjoying!
post #359 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
I still am having difficulty understanding exactly what the problem is. You have yet to to clearly explain why you think there is a "problem".

- describe EXACTLY what symptoms you are experiencing and why you think it's abnormal?
- what content are you using to judge the "problem"?
- is Dynamic EQ enabled?
- when you run the test tones (system setup > speaker setup > channel level) do all speakers sound like they are playing the tones at approximately the same volume? (do this with the Audyssey set channel level volumes)
All, thanks for the great advice. I finally got the rear surrounds at a respectable volume. I wish I could say that it was a configuration issue but it appears not. Out of pure frustration I ran the auto setup 1 more time and for reasons not known to me it worked. It could have been the microphone placement - i tried several different locations as the surrounds are at the back of a large room???? Now I am struggling to get my Logitech remote to work with the 1912 - more fun!!!
post #360 of 18969
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyd1965 View Post
All, thanks for the great advice. I finally got the rear surrounds at a respectable volume. I wish I could say that it was a configuration issue but it appears not. Out of pure frustration I ran the auto setup 1 more time and for reasons not known to me it worked. It could have been the microphone placement - i tried several different locations as the surrounds are at the back of a large room???? Now I am struggling to get my Logitech remote to work with the 1912 - more fun!!!
Must have been something in the air last night.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread