The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 114

Hi, I'm interested in purchasing an AVR1912, I'm just wondering if Denon has improved their HDMI passthrough feature to allow switching of the source while it is in Standby.

Equivalent Yamaha models will let me switch while the unit is in standby, and I believe past Denon's will only support the last HDMI input while it was powered up, or setting of a specific input to use when in standby.

The manual wasn't clear on if I can now change the input while its sitting in standby, and I've read conflicting reports on if this feature has been added.

Thanks in advance.

^^
The feature hasn't changed since the XX10 series ... either LAST or a specific HDMI jack only. The AVR must be ON to change inputs.

Experimented a bit today. Got AirPlay to work from my iPhone. Fun!

iPhone app is a little flakey, but a nice alternative for working in the dark.

Tested out my blu ray player. Horrific snow and flashing. Need to test things a bit. Its a brand new monoprice HDMI high speed cable. When I connected my pc via another HDMI, it seemed fine until i streamed video and the flashing started (and the snow remained). I'm a little concerned now. Will report back tomorrow.

The same thing happened to me at first (at the same time, the sound was cutting in and out) and I was also using two monoprice cables. I just tried switching cables around, reversing cables, and also switched one of the two monoprice ones for a cheap dell HDMI cable that I had and it eventually went away but I'm not sure exactly what the problem was. It returned a little bit at first but then I just removed and reinserted the ends that plug into the receiver and made sure I pushed firmly so they were completely in and now the problem has not returned so who knows.

I will try this. Thanks.

Okay...another (probably) really stupid question, but I don't quite understand why this is the way it is...

So, my 2112ci was working perfectly for movies (defaulting to the best Audio - like DTS HD or Dolby True HD or whatever), then suddenly neither were available.

Turns out, a setting on my crappy BD Player (Samsung BD-P 1590) changed (not sure how), but the PCM setting was enabled and as result I could NO longer play DTS or Dolby Digital anything (but may manual says I should still be able to decode Dolby Tue HD and DTS-HD Master audio) when using PCM.

It took my about 45 minutes to figure it out, after if fussed with the settings on the 2112ci it finally hit me that it was the BD Player.

So, why is it that when the PCM is enabled, I can't get those other sound formats to work? What is PCM?

Once I changed it from PCM mode to "Bitstream - Audiophile" it worked fine. DTS-HD came right up on Avatar then Dolby TrueHD came up on Robin Hood, but neither would come up when the BD player was in PCM mode.

My BD Player is connected via HDMI and Optical Cable.

All PCM means is that the BD player is decoding the audio and sending the raw stream to the receiver. When you select bit streaming, the receiver does the decoding. There should be no difference in audio quality, though.

Interesting.

So, do you think there was something wrong with my BD player since it wasn't decoding the audio?

If it said PCM on the receiver, the BD player was decoding it. Once you changed the setting to bitstream, you told the BD player to let the receiver do the decoding.

But while it was in PCM mode on the BD player, DTS-HD would not work when playing the Avatar Blu-ray disc and Dolby TrueHD would not work on the Robin Hood disc.

Once I changed the BD player to Bitstream Audiophile, they both worked fine.

Are you saying the player wouldn't let you select them in the menu? If so, it may be that your BD player can't decode the formats (although I thought all were supposed to as part of the spec).

If it's just that the receiver doesn't "show" dts-hd or dd, that's because if the player is doing the decoding, the receiver has no way to know what the originating format was (it's just receiving an uncompressed audio stream over HDMI).

This question began with the following exchange in the Speakers forum:

Can anyone recommend a good 5.1 speaker system for me?

I'm afraid I listened to too much loud music when I was young (seemed like a good idea at the time) and my primary concern is clean reproduction of dialog.

I intend to pair the system with a Denon 3312ci (unless someone has a better idea).

My upper limit for the speaker system is $1,200 (tax & shipping incl).


I received the following response:


I sent the following response:

Interesting. The room is very hard. Unfortunately, room modifications are not acceptable to She Who Must Be Obeyed.

One of the things that appealed to me about the Denon receiver was the Audyssey MultEQ XT circuitry. Do you think this might have any impact on the clarity of dialog?

Does anyone in this forum have any insight into this issue?

Thanks,

Burt

Klipsch is the way to go. RB61II+RC62II in the front and them some RS42 surrounds in the rear. Pick out a sub that's appropriate for your cubic footage of space in the room.

Horn-loaded speakers are what movie soundtracks are designed to be played back on and there is even an ISO standard for it (1169 I think?).

I recommend Klipsch for a couple of reasons:

1) Horn-loaded. Described above.
2) Because of the horn you have a very controlled and predictable directivity (90 degrees horizontally x 60 degrees vertically) so that even though the hard, reflective aspects of the room can be changed the direction of the sound can be controlled.
3) The high efficiency design of the horns is very dynamic and you get a consistent reproduction at all sound levels.

my 2112 does not let me get the gui when in NET/USB mode . Had this problem with the 1912 that i returned and found that Denon ( AS Per Customer Service TECH) is having a problem with the "12 "series. Does any one else have this problem ? As
of today I have not noticed recent problems regarding the lack of GUI in NET/USB mode..Any suggestions?

Thanks for the response. I'm going to find a place where I can listen to these speakers, but I'm afraid they are out of line with my budget. If it turns out that I like them, I'm going to face some hard decisions.

Burt

When the BD player is in PCM mode, the 2112 doesn't show dts-hd or DD. When I hit the movie button the remote, I only get the options for Stereo, Multichannel Stereo, Virtual etc...

So, I guess what you're saying is that since the BD player is doing the decoding, it will still be playing DTS-HD or DD, just not showing it on my 2112.

Maybe that is the case, but I swear that when I switched it to Bitstream and the DTS-HD showed upon on the 2112, the sound improved.

I just read it and I think that applies to me exactly... only, (maybe only in my mind) is seems to sound MUCH better when I take my BD player out of PCM mode.

I understand that your FAQ says that I'm wrong (and I probably am), but maybe it is something psychosomatic... that if I "see" the DTS-HD on the display, I feel better about the quality of the sound!

It most likely did sound better. PCM over HDMI has terrible problems with jitter and has always sounded bad. If you can hook up an input with coax digital and one with HDMI and play a CD while A/B'ing them you can here a very pronounced difference.

I believe the reason is this:

PCM is like me baking you a cake, putting it in the trunk of my car which is loaded with a spare tire, a jack, some rags and a bowling ball. I then drive as fast as possible to your house and present you with a a completely thrashed cake.

The bitstream, however, are the instructions for me driving to your house with the ingredients and the recipe for the cake. It doesn't matter what's in the trunk, I simply have to reassemble the cake as the recipe describes and you end up with a much better result.

This is the audible difference with digital audio over HDMI. PCM gets trashed and the resultant signal is decoded with all sorts of error correction applied. The bitstream (DD, DTS, DD-HD, DTS-MA, DSD, whatever) is a more robust transport mechanism that sounds better when decoded and rebuilt on the receiver side.

tl;dr: Digital ain't perfect and absolute. It gets screwed up all the time.

I've had good luck with Acoustic Sound Design (dot com) for really good prices on Klipsch speakers over the years. Call your order in for the best possible price, rather than taking the website prices at face value. And they're authorized dealers, so the factory warranty is valid.

Think Reference series, btw. Avoid the cheap Synergy, Gallery and Quintet lines.

Thanks. I'll start checking right away.

Burt

I purchased my klipsch speakers from Acoustic Sound and I suggest them aswell.

I strongly disagree with the statement that the Synergy line is "cheap" and should be "avoided". Have you heard the F-30 speakers? They are amazing, and they are by no means "cheap". When I compared them with the RFs I was pleasantly surprised. I find your comments to be WAY off base regarding the Synergy speakers, atleast the F-30 system anyway.

What you heard was the bitstream audio was a few db louder, however, not better quality at all as it is the same original audio track regardless of whether the BDP decodes it or the AVR decodes it.

Sure ... read posts #3-6 of this thread with special emphasis on post #4.

I believe the last 38yy is th 3808.

Most consider it's rplacement to be the 4311.

Are we likely to ever see a 3813 (38yy) as part of the line up again.

The 3312 is lacking some features (SACD/HDCD) I currently have and would not be prepared to forego.

The 4311 strikes me as a little more fully featured than I might need.

blairy

^^
The 4310 replaced the 3808 which has subsequently been replaced by the 4311. There will be no more 38XX series. The 33XX models replaced the 28XX models.

It's always hard to figure out what exactly to buy and where to put your money into. There are two ways to go. One is to set your budget and buy a system in that budget.

If your budget is roughly $2000. and you are thinking of a Denon Avr I would suggest the 2112 model or think about the 991 or 3311 of last year models as they are heavily discounted. It is not that the 3312 is not a superior unit, it is and with more features, rather it's all about saving money to put towards speakers which is more important.

The other way to go is to build a system, buying what you can afford now and add pieces latter. For example buy a 3312 or 3311/991 and purchase the front stage (fronts and center) and then add your sub and surrounds at a latter date,

Since clarity is your focus and I assume to hear the vocals, I would really concentrate on the center as your starting point of any system.

Anyone know if the Deremote iPhone app supports the 2112?

^^
Yes, several folks have commented using the DeRemote app with their XX12 AVR to include the 2112CI although you may want to try the Denon REMOTE app first as it is free.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems you can only turn the AVR off with the iPhone app, but not on. That's unfortunate, I suppose.