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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 274

post #8191 of 18955
^^
No, you should not have to reload the config.dat file after a firmware update.
post #8192 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahesh.sri View Post

Hi Jdsmoothie

Nope. I don't use the quick select button to power on the AVR. I use the red power on button on the remote.

In fact, i just observed that this behavior has not occurred since the last firmware update I did in Dec 2011. I am not able to say if this happens all the time OR it happens only at specific times. I will need to wait and watch if this happens again now.

I searched this thread and found another user (mjh) complaining about the same issue with a 1312. Its strange that this is not commonly faced by all users. Could it be a defect in the specific piece?

Thanks
Mahesh

If the issue doesn't present again, it could have been resolved by the firmware update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahesh.sri View Post

I have been observing this behavior for quite some time and find that my 1912 AVR keeps resetting the channel volume levels to the default (as set during AUDYSSEY setup). It seems to happen almost each time i switch off and switch on the AVR's power.

Were you just going to Standby mode or were you physically disconnecting power from the AVR (eg. by turning power strip off)?
post #8193 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by darshanjoshi View Post

I had borrowed and have experienced my friends Denon 1912 with my Energy RC50 Setup. WIth Multi XT at my place, it sounded good but somehow i felt something is still missing.
So I am planning to get Pioneer 1021. But I understand MCACC does not Eq Sub. I wanted to know how does Denon Eq a Sub?...

What do you mean by "i felt something is still missing"? If you did a reasonably proper Autosetup, Audyssey was then smoothing your bass. My suspicion is that you may be one of those folks who experiences Audyssey as initially sounding sparser or less full as what it is "missing" is some peaks in the bass that you've become quite used to in your room. When those are flattened to approach more reference-like bass response, it can take some getting used to. Also, the use of Audyssey Dynamic EQ when listening at low levels enhances the bass by bringing it up towards reference level. So I recommend that you try that, but note that for non-film sources it requires tweaking with the RLO so it doesn't boost too much.

If you don't mind, I will use your post as a jumping off point to summarize some of the discussion about MCACC vs Audyssey brought up in the last few pages. First let me say that DSP RC is a big breakthrough for HT. MY own experience has been with Audyssey and each time I move up to a higher level (MultEQ->MultEQXT->MultEQXT32) I can hear significant SQ improvements. See the Audyssey website detailed chart here. Audyssey 2EQ, which I never tried, does not EQ the sub channel and in that sense is most like MCACC. I've come to find out that Pio owners serious about DSP RC and disappointed with MCACC often add some form of additional external EQ to the sub channel. A few spend a considerable amount to get Audyssey's superb stand-alone sub channel unit, the AS-EQ1! The sub channel is so crucial because those freqs are the ones most affected by our rooms, which cause lumpy bass by the effect of room modes.

Of course the higher versions of Audyssey are generally are found in more expensive AVRs and are best matched with more refined speakers for best effect. Compared to TV speakers or "Bose"-like tiny satellite HT-in-a-box setups, once you've gotten any halfway decent HT system in place, like the Energy speakers/Denon 1912 and a real subwoofer for ex., you will generally have to spend far more $ for each increment of SQ improvement above that. So my recommendation is to get the best Audyssey you can afford in the context of your overall HT budget. Do a sub crawl and if possible get two smaller subs rather than 1 larger as 2 subs can be well-positioned to effectively cancel room modes, giving Audyssey a better bass situation to start with and yielding superb results IME.

Now for most folks the affordable version is NOT XT32, but MultEQ or MultEQXT. For those interested in the best SQ, who have good speakers and who have the budget for a AVR4311 ($1.5K street), I say go for it and I've included a detailed comparison of XT vs XT32.

This is my understanding of why XT32 is an advance in several ways over XT and by all reports audibly so. First is the sheer power of the greatly increased filter resolution (individual correction points available) on the sub channel (512 vs 128X). And the increased filter power on every satellite channel (512 vs 16X) can be very significant in improving SQ as well. It may be helpful to view the comparison chart linked above.

1. XT32 is more powerful than XT in the bass channel in # of correction points available (512X vs 256X). Thus it deals with room mode problems in the sub channel more effectively, which in most rooms results in an audible improvement with tighter smoother bass. Also note that better bass has a beneficial effect on SQ throughout the whole spectrum, with improved clarity, imaging, surround bubble and integration of subs to sats. One is well advised to do a sub crawl to find the best spots for sub(s) prior to running Audyssey.

2. In the same way, XT32 is more powerful than XT in the sat channels, as it brings equal power there as it does to the sub channel (512X vs 16X). This is important, as there are usually significant room mode problems above the crossover and below the Schroeder Freq., which must be handled in the sat channels. The filter points will be preferentially allocated to deal with the midbass band from the xover (usu 80 or so) up to the Schroeder Freq (usually 200 Hz or so) and then the remainder are assigned to the relatively easier higher freq corrections if needed (see 3).

3. Through improvements in processing strategy, XT32 uses a smarter fuzzy logic to identify problems and is more effective in allocating the filter points, focusing its power where most needed (in those freqs below the Schroeder Freq in the sat channels, for ex.).

4. XT32 assists in setting up 2 subs by individually pinging them for level and distance. It then EQs them together (as does MultEQ and XT) which is the right way, as the net result of two subs firing together and interacting with the room is what you hear and is what should be EQ'd, not the subs firing alone.
post #8194 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
No, you should not have to reload the config.dat file after a firmware update.


Thanks JD any idea how to translate the update notes from post #6 into layman's terms?
post #8195 of 18955
^^
Sorry, but no ... as I indicate at the bottom of post #6.
post #8196 of 18955
I just received my 2312 yesterday and I was up to the wee hours of the night trying to get it set up. I am observing some very strange behavior with the onscreen menu.

I have my cable DVR connected to Cable/Sat. When I am on this source and I press the menu button on the remote, the on screen menu will almost never come up. The volume display works fine but 90% of the time I can't get the full menu to display when I am on this source. On any other source the full menu display comes up fine. Also, if I am on the Cable/Sat and I press the source button, the display of all the source icons come up and while this display is up pressing the menu button will finally bring up the full menu display. This is very buggy and strange behavior. Do I need to do a full reset? I hope I don't have to go through set up again.

Thanks.
post #8197 of 18955
Hi, I am new to this forum. So sr if I am repeating a question. I recently bought Denon 3312ci. I bought the mirage 5.1 nanosat speakers to go twith it first... wasnt impressed with the sound so replaced them with Energy classic 5 satellite speakers and the Energy VSW10 10" 300W Veritas Series subwoofer. The sound is ok... I tried Audyssey setup in different ways, but no significant change in sound quality. The vocals are not that clear and crisp. I compared the sound quality with the pioneer 1021 k with the same setup and speakers in the same room. the Pioneer sounded bit better. i am a Denon fan, though this is the first time I am purchasing a customized setup. Not sure, if I am doing the wrong settings on the receiver or the speaker/receiver combination is not correct. the 3312ci is supposed to be far better than the pioneer 1021k but still the pioneer is sounding better... So, now I am confused and dont know what to do to get things corrected to et good SQ from my setup. Any ideas... changes... settings that might work out for me?
post #8198 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstea View Post

I just received my 2312 yesterday and I was up to the wee hours of the night trying to get it set up. I am observing some very strange behavior with the onscreen menu.

I have my cable DVR connected to Cable/Sat. When I am on this source and I press the menu button on the remote, the on screen menu will almost never come up. The volume display works fine but 90% of the time I can't get the full menu to display when I am on this source. On any other source the full menu display comes up fine. Also, if I am on the Cable/Sat and I press the source button, the display of all the source icons come up and while this display is up pressing the menu button will finally bring up the full menu display. This is very buggy and strange behavior. Do I need to do a full reset? I hope I don't have to go through set up again.

Thanks.

You need to press the "AMP" button before pressing the "MENU" button as noted in the "GUI/MENU" section of post #3.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...?p=20422026#B2

Take a look at posts 3-6 as well when you get a chance.
post #8199 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashdriver View Post

Hi, I am new to this forum. So sr if I am repeating a question. I recently bought Denon 3312ci. I bought the mirage 5.1 nanosat speakers to go twith it first... wasnt impressed with the sound so replaced them with Energy classic 5 satellite speakers and the Energy VSW10 10" 300W Veritas Series subwoofer. The sound is ok... I tried Audyssey setup in different ways, but no significant change in sound quality. The vocals are not that clear and crisp. I compared the sound quality with the pioneer 1021 k with the same setup and speakers in the same room. the Pioneer sounded bit better. i am a Denon fan, though this is the first time I am purchasing a customized setup. Not sure, if I am doing the wrong settings on the receiver or the speaker/receiver combination is not correct. the 3312ci is supposed to be far better than the pioneer 1021k but still the pioneer is sounding better... So, now I am confused and dont know what to do to get things corrected to et good SQ from my setup. Any ideas... changes... settings that might work out for me?

Welcome to AVS Forum. You need to run AUTO SETUP (Audyssey) in order for your speakers to get setup correctly. Also note that the 3312CI is overkill for your speakers ... generally you want the speaker purchase to be at least 2-3X as much as the cost of the AVR, not the other way around. Why did you purchase the 3312CI over the 1712 or 2112CI? What feature did you need in the 3312CI that the lower models don't offer as sound quality will be very similar?
post #8200 of 18955
I bought the 3312ci for the 3 zone function. i wanted to get the 2312ci but again the diff. was a few $$$. As for the speakers. I would like to go higher... but later in the stage when I am able to understand how the system works out. most probably i wont upgrade the receiver.... but just upgrade the speakers. And my requirement is of small speakers... (wife doesnt like the towers). energy speakers had the best reviews, so went with them. was going to get the def.tech. 800, but thought that the energy might be good. So, coming back to my question. I tried the audyssey setup several times without luck(i.e. no improvement in sound quality). So, should I get the 2312ci or lower end receiver ? I got the 3312ci thinking that, though the power might be too much for the speakers... it should not matter.
post #8201 of 18955
the speakers are the foundation of sound quality...

yes, that avr is way overkill for those speakers, because there's nothing it can do (vs. a much cheaper model) to make them sound any better...

you are approaching this completely backwards...
post #8202 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Welcome to AVS Forum. You need to run AUTO SETUP (Audyssey) in order for your speakers to get setup correctly. Also note that the 3312CI is overkill for your speakers ... generally you want the speaker purchase to be at least 2-3X as much as the cost of the AVR, not the other way around. Why did you purchase the 3312CI over the 1712 or 2112CI? What feature did you need in the 3312CI that the lower models don't offer as sound quality will be very similar?

Which speakers would you suggest for this receiver in the satellite speaker category?
post #8203 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashdriver View Post

I bought the 3312ci for the 3 zone function. i wanted to get the 2312ci but again the diff. was a few $$$. As for the speakers. I would like to go higher... but later in the stage when I am able to understand how the system works out. most probably i wont upgrade the receiver.... but just upgrade the speakers. And my requirement is of small speakers... (wife doesnt like the towers). energy speakers had the best reviews, so went with them. was going to get the def.tech. 800, but thought that the energy might be good. So, coming back to my question. I tried the audyssey setup several times without luck(i.e. no improvement in sound quality). So, should I get the 2312ci or lower end receiver ? I got the 3312ci thinking that, though the power might be too much for the speakers... it should not matter.

No, the additional power in the 3312CI as compared to the lower models will be moot unless you have a really large room or are playing the audio at really loud volumes ... in fact, on average the speakers are only drawing about 5W/CH. Do you need an independent source to Zone 3 or can it be the same audio as in Zone 2. If you simply want the same background music in multiple rooms in your house, then you can pick up a multi zone impedance matching speaker selector and connect it to the Zone 2 speaker posts (Amp Assign/Surr Back) on the AVR.

Also, how large is your room? Review the Audyssey Setup Guide linked in my sig to ensure you are properly setting up the mic for better results. Make sure to have Audyssey Dyn EQ set for all sources.
post #8204 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

the speakers are the foundation of sound quality...

yes, that avr is way overkill for those speakers, because there's nothing it can do (vs. a much cheaper model) to make them sound any better...

you are approaching this completely backwards...

yep. agreed, but what I observed is that the the receiver is not giving me the sound quality of the pioneer 1021k with the exact same settings. i can return the existing speakers and go a bit higher... but what if I experience the same problem?
post #8205 of 18955
^^
I would caution about replacing the speakers until you can determine whether you're just not used to what Audyssey does for speakers .. give it least a week or two after you are confident you have performed the Audyssey setup correctly and have the speakers all properly placed.
post #8206 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashdriver View Post

yep. agreed, but what I observed is that the the receiver is not giving me the sound quality of the pioneer 1021k with the exact same settings. i can return the existing speakers and go a bit higher... but what if I experience the same problem?

a) it's highly dubious that you have the auditory memory to make any conclusions to begin with (hint: none of us do)...

b) how can you possibly have the "exact same settings" on the pio and the denon?
post #8207 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

a) it's highly dubious that you have the auditory memory to make any conclusions to begin with (hint: none of us do)...

b) how can you possibly have the "exact same settings" on the pio and the denon?

hahaha.. Sorry, I messed up with the words... I meant to say the speaker locations and room remained the same and I did the Audyssey for Denon and mcacc for pioneer before playing music.
post #8208 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

No, the additional power in the 3312CI as compared to the lower models will be moot unless you have a really large room or are playing the audio at really loud volumes ... in fact, on average the speakers are only drawing about 5W/CH. Do you need an independent source to Zone 3 or can it be the same audio as in Zone 2. If you simply want the same background music in multiple rooms in your house, then you can pick up a multi zone impedance matching speaker selector and connect it to the Zone 2 speaker posts (Amp Assign/Surr Back) on the AVR.

Also, how large is your room? Review the Audyssey Setup Guide linked in my sig to ensure you are properly setting up the mic for better results. Make sure to have Audyssey Dyn EQ set for all sources.

My room is about 12ft(L)x9ft(b). I will try the settings as per the audyssey guide in the next 2 days and get back to you guys with results. Till then one last question. What would be the reaason for not getting crisp vocals? I get the hiss sound (or rather "ssss" or whistling) while listening to music. i.e. at the end of the sentence in the song... This thing did not happen with pioneer. (for the same song). I am using 14G wires to connect to speakers.
post #8209 of 18955
I toggle the audio between Amp and TV a bit. When watching TV, I really don't need the Amp playing the audio. So I pass it through the TV, which has a soundbar.
When I'm home alone playing video games or watching a movie, I'll play the sound through the AVR.
I can't seem to find, it may not even exist, a button on the remote to do this quicker. I always have to navigate through the menu and change it under the HDMI settings in the GUI.

Thanks in advance.

One other thing. Is it possible to set the sources differently. ie XBOB plays through AVR, SAT/CBL would pass-through audio to TV/Soundbar?
post #8210 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashdriver View Post

My room is about 12ft(L)x9ft(b).

So, then a really small room ... definitely no need for a higher powered AVR. Do you want networking? Do you need independent audio to Zone 3? If you can determine whether a lower level model will just as easily meet your needs, you'll have more money for better quality speakers should you decide to go that route.
post #8211 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaskiller73 View Post

I toggle the audio between Amp and TV a bit. When watching TV, I really don't need the Amp playing the audio. So I pass it through the TV, which has a soundbar.
When I'm home alone playing video games or watching a movie, I'll play the sound through the AVR.
I can't seem to find, it may not even exist, a button on the remote to do this quicker. I always have to navigate through the menu and change it under the HDMI settings in the GUI.

Thanks in advance.

One other thing. Is it possible to set the sources differently. ie XBOB plays through AVR, SAT/CBL would pass-through audio to TV/Soundbar?

You can pass an HDMI audio source through to the TV/Soundbar with the AVR in Standby by setting HDMI Control to ON and setting the Standby Source to either a specific HDMI jack or the LAST source used. Another option is also just connecting the the sat/cable box HDMI directly to the TV with optical from the box to the AVR.
post #8212 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

So, then a really small room ... definitely no need for a higher powered AVR. Do you want networking? Do you need independent audio to Zone 3? If you can determine whether a lower level model will just as easily meet your needs, you'll have more money for better quality speakers should you decide to go that route.

ok. Actually money is not much of a problem(not that I will spend more than 1700 on speakers), i just wanted to start with cheaper speakers, to experiment with lbasic good speakers and then move on to higher end. As far as receiver capabilities... I wanted airplay, and mutlizone with diff. source options for zones. any other receiver that would fit the needs? And any other satellite spekaers that are good/better ?
post #8213 of 18955
^^
Well, then yes, the 3312CI would be the only XX12 model that offers independent sources to each of 3 different zones. As far as speaker recommendations go, you would be much better served posting in the Speakers forum with your budget, room layout, etc.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=89
post #8214 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Well, then yes, the 3312CI would be the only XX12 model that offers independent sources to each of 3 different zones. As far as speaker recommendations go, you would be much better served posting in the Speakers forum with your budget, room layout, etc.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=89

Thanks! you have helped clear some of tyhe questions that I had. will post after I try out new things/settings with the receiver.
post #8215 of 18955
My Denon 3312ci keeps freezing too on the Net/USB usage. The only way to get it going agin is to unplug it. This is also and issue with the 4308ic but the 4308 has a master switch.

With the 3312ci in a rack this is a real pain.

I wish Denon would find a fix for this issue. So many people are saying the same thing. Way too many.
post #8216 of 18955
Thread Starter 
Denons track record with network integration ain't so hot.
post #8217 of 18955
I'm having a weird issue with my 2112 and a vcr (I know). My wife occasionally likes to preview a tape for school. Some will play fine, some won't. It doesn't seem to be a quality issue, as a few pretty bad tapes play, and some nice looking ones do not. Audio always works fine. I only have an hdmi running to the tv, for a quick fix, I just bypassed the avr altogether. Running through the settings, I was looking for a way to not up-convert the picture but just to pass the vcr signal through to the tv at 480i to see if that makes a difference. I remember doing this on my 2807, but couldn't figure it out quickly with my wife waiting for her educational material. I will poke around a bit more later tonight, but any quick hints or ideas would be appreciated.

thanks
post #8218 of 18955
Denon 1612 here. Have had it for about 3 weeks now. I have not had time to do the Audessey setup yet, hopefullythis weekend. I live in an apartment so the loud tones will need to be done during the day.

Quick question, from the htpc many sounds are loud others soft.....tv same thing. as we all know programs are fine once volume is set, but adds are too loud.

is there any option for "normalizing" the volume so the difference between loud and soft is not that great? Dynamic volume from what i understand is the setting, but its unavailable right now. Will this option be only available once the audessey calibration is done?

thanks.
post #8219 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.pope View Post

I'm having a weird issue with my 2112 and a vcr (I know). My wife occasionally likes to preview a tape for school. Some will play fine, some won't. It doesn't seem to be a quality issue, as a few pretty bad tapes play, and some nice looking ones do not. Audio always works fine. I only have an hdmi running to the tv, for a quick fix, I just bypassed the avr altogether. Running through the settings, I was looking for a way to not up-convert the picture but just to pass the vcr signal through to the tv at 480i to see if that makes a difference. I remember doing this on my 2807, but couldn't figure it out quickly with my wife waiting for her educational material. I will poke around a bit more later tonight, but any quick hints or ideas would be appreciated.

thanks


You mean "upscale" rather than "upconvert" and unlike the 2807, the 2112CI doesn't have the setting so there is no "upscaling" feature and the "upconverting" is done automatically. Older devices can be finicky, so your best option may very well be direct connect to TV (video) and audio to AVR.
post #8220 of 18955
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliaskary77 View Post

is there any option for "normalizing" the volume so the difference between loud and soft is not that great? Dynamic volume from what i understand is the setting, but its unavailable right now. Will this option be only available once the audessey calibration is done?

thanks.

Yes, both Dyn EQ and Dyn VOl will be available once you run AUTO SETUP.
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