2011 Mitsubishi DLP WD-73640 official thread - Page 39

You know, I looked at the ESPN LOGO Picture a few posts up..... and you know what I'm seeing?

A Y/C Chrominance delay of +1H (Eyeball guess of one horizontal line.) Where C is delayed +1H more than Y.

Chrominance information that stops on one horizontal line, followed by Luminance only video below it, and the delayed chrominance appears over the luminance.... It is easier to detect this issue when Cromanance is delayed, as opposed to leads (which would appear as above instead of below).... Perfect Y/C timing results in NO Lead or Lag in Chromanance over Luminance.

The fact that enhancement hides this, is due to the nature of enhancement containing both H & V content.. I'm guessing your selection of Enhancement (Detail) addition cancels out the Chroma Delay based upon the bandwidth of the (offending) signal..
By this I mean Large (Vertical) based Chroma to Luminance Transitions have lower bandwidth (being Vertical in nature), compared to smaller (Vertical based Chroma to Luminance Transitions.... which by nature are higher in frequency, but still based around vertical rate of the sweep frequency, which would be 29.97fps(1080) vs. 59.94(720) Times a multiplier of whatever tricks that Mits is doing with DLP Chip.

How to verify this is happening.... I believe we end user's can do this to verify it is happening.... Since the frequency of 720P (59.94) is twice that of 1080i(29.97) I'm guessing that the amount of detail needed in 720P would also be greater than the amount of detail in 1080i to mask the same issue..
If this is the case.... In order to mask the vertical issue, we would be over-enhancing the horizontal video....
(Horizontal based enhancement appears on Vertical video content, and Vertical based enhancement appears on Horizontal video content)
As you increase Enhancement, you are adding a H & V content to the edge of the Luminance... By artfully selecting the Enhancement value, you NULL OUT (CANCEL) the Chroma Delay by COVERING it with Enhancement (Luminance based Enhancement).....
Another issue that affects the amount of enhancement needed to cancel this is the Color you are trying to mask.
Note that different colors have different luminance content... So.. The Enhancement number that "works" for Red (If I am right) will be less than the same number to cancel out a large block of Green (which has a higher luminance content! --- Blue less than red, so Blue would need a lower number of Enhancement).
That's why the Enhancement value for ESPN Logo is fixed, and consistant day to day.... The Logo is consistant red, not varying... That is also why flesh colors seem to be fixed by this value..... as flesh is more or less red, but also explains why detail in faces is less, since the Y/C is out of 'time' the image detail is blurred, softening the image....

And Again I must ask howl to contact Mits



What did Mits say?

Thanks for the tech info, JanJ, that's exactly the type of thing I had been hoping for since I started posting pics.

I'll bring this up on the next round of Mits support when I start up again (authorized tech hasn't called back about the main board yet, so I have an excuse to continue harassing them).

Which in short all comes back to wobulation. As long as we are at 960x1080, you have two mirrors overlaying each other on the vertical plane. Focus is lost no matter what the software in processing tells it.

My whole issue is: Why in this day and age of cpu process technology being as low as 28nm and Intel now working on 22nm, we can't get a full 1920x1080 DMD chip from Ti? Are they staying with wobulation in the 4K2K projectors they have out or are those actual 3840x2160 chips?

Maybe with the advent of 4K2K resolution this is the case with chip technology being where its at. Mits could be moving on after this years model and being done instead of improving on DLP 1080p? I wish there was more on this technology out there for public to see and/or Ti had something more concrete on the 4K2K DMD itself. If in deed they stay with wobble and put it at 1920X2160 I know I won't be back, as with how technology has jumped in last few years there is no excuse to. These TV's are screaming for a True 4K2K resoluition. IMO as always.


P.S. Guys, just imagine how crisp of a picture we would have compared to other tech out there if they ran a true non-wobulated DMD chip. It like they are purposely holding themselves back for some reason.

Here's where I can provide some insight, DVraven72.....

Back in the Mits 62525 forum, I was pushing Mits to fix the Digital Audio ouput issue: (Clock outputted on Analog output only -- preventing Supsequent audio devices to switch between Digital and Analog audio feeds... --- Which the eventually fixed, by the way...)..

But also during this time, there was someone else who was complaining about blurred pics, and he got his issue fixed in firmware, and I DID NOTICE a picture clarity improvement from that firmware update....

So This Issue does have some history in prior version DLP 62525....

OK... Been thinking about this. The pictures that have been posted are Far Too Complex to prove any issue...

Here's a description of what I think will prove the issue once and for all...

Someone make this and test... I stink at Photoshop.... I'll use 8 bit video numbers...

Make a picture horizontally split in four equal areas... We'll call them Top, Row 2, Row 3 and Bottom.

In Row 2 and Bottom put no chroma, Luminance 128 (Grey) That's all for Row 2 and Bottom. This will show Y/C delay + as error on bottom of color patches, Y/C Delay - as error Above the color patches...

On Top and Row 3, cut each vertical area into 9 equal horizontal partitions....
In the partitions of each row, put in this order.... Dark Blue, Red, Green, mid Blue, Red, Green, Light Blue, Red, Green. In each color, have it be as HIGHLY SATURATED as Possible...

Now, put this on the mits, and set enhancement for as low as it will go. Do you see Delay? Above or Below the color patches? If you see an error, it proves Y/C Delay.

If so, continue on... Slowely raise enhancement level until Dark blue (ONLY DARK BLUE) loses it's Y/C delay... At that point, compare Dark Blue to Medium Blue and Light Blue.. Is just Dark Blue masked? or, Are all three blue's Y/C error equally masked, and, is Red and Green still showing Y/C error? (I suspect it will be dark blue only masked... I'm not certain what will happen)
If all blue's are masked as well as Red(s) and Green(s), I'm wrong... the issue is somewhere else.... but if only dark blue is masked.. this proves my Luminance based Y/C error is masked by specific Enhancement values, and Further Proves the issue... Please continue on..
If Only Dark Blue Y/C is masked, increase enhancement till Mediumt blue Y/C is masked, and then report what happens to Dark Blue... as I don't know what to expect.... Then continue on and mask Light blue with enhancement, report on Dark and Medium video artifacts, and then post all data, and continue on with RED (Depending on the luminance contents of Medium and Light Blue, you MAY see Equivalent Luminance levels of Red and Green change with Your adjustment of enhancement for Mid and Light Blue... This will depend on Luminance content in the Red's and Green's compared to the luminance content of dark, mid, and Light blue.... Hope you understand this....

If I'm right, this test should show prove the luminance content of Y/C error can be nulled out by enhancement values... And (I Believe) Proves the existence of a Y/C error...

^^^ Thank God, I have been focusing on Audio side of things lately. And I thought Audio was confusing lol.

I have a quick question if anyone can quickly answer... Just got this set which so far I love... I was never interested in 3D but I figured I would try it, I have a Samsung BD-C6900 and would be interested in Blu 3D so could I use DLP link glassed like the ZD101 everyone is talking about or must I get an emitter because after some research im not sure the samsung will work with DLP link/checkerboard format if it matters?

Thanks for any help

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/blu-...d/BD-C6900/XAA

Can't see any reason this player wouldn't work with DLP Link.
1.4a / 1.4 Same so should be good

Thanks ... I'll give the ZD101 a try. It just seems like there was no direct answer and so much talk about dlp link and checkerboard and players that are not compatible with DLP

Vanishing Red Lines - A Mitsubishi Trick:



Above: Image on LCD (crop)

Below: Same image on 2011 Mits DLP (crop)



Above: Image on 2011 Mits DLP (crop)

Below: The actual source image (crop)

My thoughts on the Y/C sync possibility: Y/C out of sync would cause a generalized blur, and the defect in 2011 Mitsubishi DLPs is not a generalized blur. (As we've long said. Even the FIRST time wobulation was brought up.)

The "blur" is specific to certain combinations of colors in proximity. And it's actually not blur, as in some misalignment or lack of focus: it's just wrong color output for some of those pixels.

This causes "blur" / "erasing" of details - like fine facial details: creases in skin, in lips, etc - as I and others have amply descibed earlier in this thread.

Nonetheless, here are pictures everyone can try on their TV:


Above: The full image from which the prior post was made. Try it on your set. Certain shade of red lines disappear, and none of the other colors do.


A non-compressed version. The razor sharp edges are unlike any normal content - which is why the slightly blurred / compressed ones are more relevant.


My rendition of Jan J's description. It reveals nothing except what I had previously described about the AVSHD 709 DVD: a thin dark line (near black) at the edge of the red block.

I see DEAD PIXELS...

Anyways, when I watched the SuperBowl (wish my Texans were in it), everything looked and sounded awesome, even Madonna.

Just sayin'

I like it!

I saw lots of the red/white pixelated smearing on the various logos.

I downloaded the ISO, burned it to a DVD using the recommended software on my PC, and obtained a disc that won't load on my Panasonic BD player.

Sorry for your trouble. I'd be glad to help troubleshoot, as I've tried the download and had success burning from it.

Using your PC and looking at the disk with Windows Explorer, can you confirm that the DVD contains a folder, "BDMV" ?

What type of burnable DVD did you use (DVD+R, DVD-R, DVD-RAM, etc.)?

I am looking for a Houston area 2011 set that the owner feels does not exhibit the problem thhowl has described in excruciating detail. I am interested in taking the fight to Mitsubishi but to do that I need to see and personally verify a unit exists that does not have the adjacent color bug.


I am in the Cypress area near Barker Cypress if someone such as yourself does not have the issue I cane use that evidence to prove it is not a "limitation of the set" but indeed a defective piece of hardware in my 92840. This is the missing link in our situation here.

If you feel your set does not have the problem and are willing to allow me to spend 15 minutes with your set then we may be able to move this fiasco off dead center.

If you have the issue or just don't want to be bothered, I understand. Anyone else in the North or West of Houston who is convinced their set it free of this error and would grant me the time to take a quick look it would be oh so helpful to our community.

You might also try posting this on the 740/840 thread. There are more owners on that thread, which would increase your odds of finding someone nearby.

I had the same problem (also a Panasonic)....but I was able to play it on my PC using WinDVD11 ...having burned it to a DVD-R. But of course viewing it on the PC doesn't accomplish anything.

gtgray if you had it to do over, would you still get your 2011 model? The reason I ask is that I wanted a 73640 or 73740 but now I really don't know. The only other hdtv I would look at would be a 60" or 65" panisonic plasma ST model. But that camp is not very happy with their sets either

Really? I almost got the 65" ST30 (or ST25, something like that). What are the problems with them??

This

The DVDs that I burn shows up as having no files at all. I've looked at it on 3 different computers. The .ISO fiel is a good way to make coasters!

Of course, under normal conditions, there are no problems reading or burning normal CDs or DVDs on the same drive, which is an Optiarc AD-7621S.

arnyk, something beside the ISO itself is wrong if your DVDs show no files at all. Perhaps the download had errors.

Downloaded it several times, got identical files.

Burned it on two different PCs.

Burned it with 3 different pieces of burning software.

Darn man, pretty soon I will have made a buck's worth of coasters! ;-)

This is by far the best and easiest to use burning software I've found and it's free. Give it a shot http://www.imgburn.com/

Been there, done that already.

Try different blank discs. Different brand, and/or try +R if you're using -R, etc.

I prefer...

http://www.poweriso.com/