2011 Mitsubishi DLP WD-73640 official thread - Page 33

That's about as lame an answer I have ever seen.


Also douchey and unnecessarily condescending. I asked a valid question.

These sets have been a 960 x 1080 physical array all the way back to the first DLP's I remember that were sold as "1920 x 1080" ( Sammys 2005-6?)

thhowl, I know you are taking this almost personal, but understand, its part of the tech. There is no real work around for it. They tried with their own sharpness parameters, edge enhancement.

Do what you will man. This is just how this tech is and I am going to leave it at that and go enjoy my TV till the new 4K2K sets are released. Specially now that LG and Sony have announce 4K2K Blu-ray players in 2013.

I gotta agree with you DRAVEN - and i'm outta here. My 3D glasses I hope don't suck come tomorrow and i'm going to enjoy my $650 TV either way. I'll probably enjoy the hell out of it for several years. I knew all of the pitfalls of DLP before I woke up Thanksgiving morning and saw the WD73640 for $650. Did I mention BR ISO's off the PC look SICK?... They do.

Hell, I remember paying over $700 for a "WEGA" 27"

The expression YMMV is popular for a reason. If every electronic component exhibited exactly the same characteristics to exactly the same degree, the world would be a much more predictable place. I looked carefully from a close distance--4'. Possibly from 1'-2' it would have shown wobulation, if that is what it is, but come on, a 92" display from a couple of feet? That does seem like an unreasonably high standard.

I can live with the fault but it doesn't make since that this is due to wobulation. If that were true why is it only red/white. Wobulation is done by physically moving tiny mirrors is it not? I would think that if it were due to wobulation older modles of mits dlp's as well as other dlp sets and would show the same thing.

I don't understand the vitriol being sent in Howl's direction.

He's taken a lot of time to post videos, pics and descriptions. If he's successful in getting Mits to admit to their mistakes, then we all get our TV's improved thru firmware or hardware. If not, it's not as if Howl's coming to each of your homes to kick your TV and wag his finger in 'shame' at you.

Are you guys really that sad that this thread is discussing problems with the set? Do you just want to come here and sing gospel and tell each other how great your TV is? Is that what's bothering you? *and you know who you are*

I see two sets of people here:

1) People who see a problem and want to at least attempt to fix it.

2) People who see a problem and want to pretend it's not there, that it doesn't matter... and stick their heads in the sand. And damn anyone who points out said problem. (Didn't South Park do an episode on that?)

Meh... not even worth the breath.

I did not say it was bad deinterlacing just that it looks like bad deinterlacing.

I will take a peak at my 82837 tomorrow or the next day and see if ESPN shows the same artifacting on it as well. Since the viewing distance was the same as now it would have been even less noticeable. Sadly I have now trained my eye to look for the error and saw it in a bunch of situations on ESPN tonight.

I don't know why we should be discouraged by the idea that some sets might demonstrate the error and some don't. That would suggest a component tolerance issue that can be resolved by either replacement or firmware.

It is very common in consumer electronics for an error to show up in some but not all examples in a model or serial number range. Having worked for Compaq and HP when an issue came up it was usually found to occur across a broader swath of machines then originally believed. Sometimes the range of affected models and serial numbers was expanded multiple times. The thing is that in almost every case not all units or even a majority would show the problem. I hope this is limited in scope, but we have no way of knowing at this point.

Also from working at a large electronics manufacturer they often know about issues long before they are discovered or widely reported in the field. Mits may already know about this. Sometimes when an issue represents potentially large warranty considerations there will be denials until the scope is understood and a recovery stragety is developed and readied for deployment. I have seen especially with hard drives, firmware fix after, firmware fix, that did not resolve the issue and utimately there was a large proactive recovery.

Generally there are two kinds of scenarios, one is fix on failure. In this situation if you never report, you never get the fix. The other is more of a recall, they notify you and the OEM does whatever is required to fix the problem. Hopefully, firmware can fix this and it can be pushed down and everyone who has their display internet connected will get a fix.

I am certainly appreciative of the efforts put forth to profile and categorize this error.

Again, I will look at my 82837 and see what it does.

Thanks for your post, gtgray.

I owned the 2009 65737 and used it for web browsing, PC gaming, and viewing my photography all the time. I am sure it did not have the problems my 2011 model has.

Thanks for your comments, JP32, and thanks for all the help demonstrating and explaining the problem.

I looked for and posted the problem on my set as soon as I read Howl's posts. I agree there is an issue. Furthermore I would add it does seem odd that it would be wobulation since seemingly once color is removed the issue is alleviated.

As for "vitriol", from who?
I asked a very simple question of Howl after DRAVEN noted wobulation can soften an image and TTHOWL replied "it has nothing to do with wobulation" - I asked what makes you certain? TTHOWL's response "Reading"

That is dismissive at best, arrogant, condescending, ignorant, and rude at worst.

I appreciate HOWL bringing these issues up for all of us to examine but when I ask him a simple follow up question I do not accept being dismissed rudely.

Though it took many pages to get the point across, there is some issues...

Mits in the past, has a history of fixing video and other issues when presented in a way that their tech's can see it...

It is quite clear something is going on, and also quite clear there are different 'camps' here...

But a problem is a problem is a problem.... No amount of talking about it will fix it, or mask it...

Mits just went through a series of 3-4 firmware upgrades on our unit....

The faster you get this to their attention, the sooner it will be addressed....

Waiting would NOT be a good thing....

Emperical, I decided to re-try the True Depths last night, popped in Avatar. Still green tint, put Zd101's on its gone. Please let me know how your's work out. I will see if these are still covered under warranty and send them back based on your feedback.

I did find the less bulky ZD201's at this site and will be ordering a pair to try out in a week or so. These seem to be really nice from reviews around the web. http://www.airetechit.co.uk/e-shop/i...USD&livemode=1

Well, when they get stock.

Jan J, its not a matter if they can fix it. Vertically DLP Chips are limited to 960 lines or pixels,(mirrors in this case) that basically over lap to create the illusion of 1920. Sure in paused pictures you are gonna really notice the "overlay" or blurring as you are seeing it.

But in full motion, at 10 feet away, I did not notice it at all. Last night Art Van ran a commercial that had red tag sale with white writing and it wasn't blurred a bit in motion, but when I paused, walked upto the screen you could see where it was struggling to keep the two seperated.

Myself, I don't understand why with chip technology so far along and so far shrunk down (Intel has 22nm ready go) we can't get a regular 1920x1080 DMD. Its not expesive any more as prices on chip fab are down do to great volume. Hell they could do it at 28nm.

Anyway after doing more research on Ti and its DMD chip and how the light engine works, it seems to me to get Wobulation better it would take another lens on the engine to focus the image better. But would it really? Seems like we could have a "perfect" picture if Wobble was let go.

Oh and as firmware goes, only thing I saw fixed in 13.04 was 3D stutter was gone and that was a great fix. .05, there was no increase in PQ, or 3D. This leaves me to think that was for cooling purposes as alot of people were getting random shut offs, even with the TV out from the wall. Must have updated the firmware controlling the fans for cooling purposes. Haven't had a random shut down since.

The problem is fully visible in motion. Pausing does nothing to augment it. I've never seen this complaint regarding DLP/wobulation before... but I was aware of Rainbow Effect, (generally) poor geometry, and something similar to the issue of poor "convergence" back in the CRT rear projection day, showing itself as Chroma Aberration here in DLP.

The sets are advertised as 1080p. Not "1080p, except for when there are instances of red bordering white, or white bordering black, or any other color combination that may give our software problems... in which case, false information/noise will litter the screen and ruin an otherwise fine image".

Draven... I'm not wasting my time answering your personal attacks/digs/jabs. I don't come here to have debate club level arguments... I just want facts. Fact is, most people (all?) have found the issue when they look. That's all I need to know. I'm not interested in your opinion on why we'll fail with Mits tech support. Either we get it fixed or we don't... but I will try.

More importantly, I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to test and post their results. Hopefully we can get this problem fixed. I'll be calling Mits today, if time allows.

I'm considering buying a WD73640 this weekend (to replace my 65HM167).

What store provides the best ~4 year warranty? I've read some places where hhgregg and best buy don't cover bulbs.

Also, if I pick it up from the store, should I inspect it inside the box BEFORE i take it home? I'd hate to take it home, then realize the screen has already popped loose.

thanks for any advice!

at first I though this issue was happening only on the edges, but thowls photo shows it everywehre.
Do I see it with sharpness off yes( I got the point that sharpness is not the problem).
With my sharpness set its negligble at seating distance- and for just over 600, I have things to do that register higher on my important list than to can call up Mistu and talk to some guy who is reading from a damn screen.

Not trying to be rude but if and when things calm down and I feel like it I will call em up.
I dont see why this cant be fixed with SW.

I paid $65 for a +4year from Square Trade with a 35% off coupon. Some people think their warranty is inferior but if you take the time to read any warranty they are all have a liability limit up to initial purchase price of the product covered.
Don't want to start a debate, for me ST warranty with whatever it lacks at $65 was good enough for me.

All Mitsubishi will do is set up a service call. Be forewarned. That is after they tell you to reset the TV (Menu 1,2,3, 0 ) and check the built in test image for the problem.

Just called ---

With the level 1 script-reader: had to do a simple reset, then a factory reset. I had to write down my settings before the factory one, as that resets all your info. I didn't have to use the test image, just used the ESPN logo on Sportscenter.

After being on hold for 5-8 minutes, the next guy up simply set up an appointment with a local repair shop (well, I gotta call them in an hour or so to set up appointment).

This is good news... not sure what you're "forewarning" people about, Empirical. I'll have a tech guy out here within a day or two to see the problem in person. And I have several irrefutable examples on hand to show him. That's exactly what I wanted at this stage of the game.

Geez JP I cant tell people what Mits will do? What a touchy group we have

Stop being coy. (at least I hope, for your sake, that's what you're doing).

Using the term "be forewarned" implies bad news.

Not sure what you expected. Did you think we'd call Mits, and they'd say "Yes, we've been expecting your call. Please check your doorstep for a USB drive with included firmware update. It is waiting for you under the door bell. Good bye."

Wow, you are a jerk. What I meant by forewarned is that some people don't exactly relish the idea of a service call.

It's not blurring that we are seeing, it is the tv adding red/white/black pixels/information that isn't supposed to be there. If it were blurring from wobbulation it would be perfectly even blur along a line that spans the entire screen but in this case if you pull up a 2,3,4px red line on a white background it has random "noise/pixelation) along the line not an even blur.

Okaaaaay.

BE FOREWARNED guys --- Mits will set up a free service call in an attempt to fix your TV.

It does suck, I will admit. I was hoping the TV-fairy would come in the middle of the night, while I was sleeping, and sprinkle some magic fairy dust on the set, solving all its problems, as well as bringing world peace and ending hunger everywhere.

You are really a funny guy JP, hysterical. You must be very well liked by all.

Thanks. Your praise is well received.

Back on topic... Hopefully I can post an update tomorrow afternoon with the results of the service call.

That would be swell. I opted for a Monday service call because I have better things to do on Saturday. I will certainly share my results as well.