My impression of the new Passive revolution. - Page 2

True, but when will 4K content come. Also, from what I read the deal between Samsung and ReadD will bring 1080P passive. I would like to see a passive plasma.

Uh, no. Have you seen an LG passive?

No, but I know how it works, every other line is for the left eye and such. This creates much worst artifacts than a checkerboard pattern. It turns out in real life a lot of stuff is vertical or horizonal i.e. tables and walls, etc. so dividing the screen either way is going to suck.

I am driven to put together some of the highest performing projection 3D systems anywhere for a few select patrons,for example one budget is 140,000 for a modded 4k projector, 40,000 for a suitable fixed lens, 90,000 for a reald d xlw polarizer, 75,000 for a teranex doremi 2d to 3d realtime conversion kit and 80,000 for a custom torus screen. I love it there is no better 3D.

That being said I hope LG puts samsung , panasonic out of business this year.

The garbage they sold consumers set me back weeks of downtime with optical nerve aches and twitching eye problems. It is a crime and they should pay for it .

What is the point of full resolution if your optical nerves cannot handle extended viewing sessions with them propeller glasses? It's the optigrab effect nightmare scenario.

With the LG I have monitored much of 700 Blu-rays for assesment of the 2d to 3d conversion and my eyes feel like new. With the samsung I was crosseyed after the first 40 hours.

Now I know Samsung is coming with a full resolution passive panel 55", not a moment too soon, they should have recalled their entire active production.

Most people don't watch 3D for a living. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean others don't enjoy it. I think all cars that aren't Mustang convertbles should be thrown in the trash compacter for being gutless cramped peices of junk with no headroom. I realize that is just me and don't suggest we all condem other cars. Well, OK, I do.

The point you missed is that I am considered a 3D expert viewer, I even had a very intense 5 minute argument with James Cameron at Cinemacon with substantial validation of my points afterwards when he sent his people to investigate my suggestion at the subsequent NAB.

Just go take a look at the 65 when it comes out and tell me in all consciousness that it does not feel like a much more organic and pleasant experience. LG is the new king of 3d, and the projector is no slouch. From a company that just 10 years ago was making dishwashers and rice cookers, it is a pretty impressive feat.

Hey I cannot believe how a rather inferior active glasses company implementation(the crystal eyes from reald has three times the contrast, MTF and separation) is what was used in Cannes this year. There is a sucker-trying-on-active-glasses-for-the-first-time every minute.

Active-shutter 3D using DLP front projection is indeed supposed to be very nice, although I have had very limited chance to see it "in action". My understanding is that the ghosting performance compared to LCD-active shutter is much better. And obviously the huge picture must be very cool. But generally speaking I think that most flat-panel purchasers are not really considering front projection as an option.

The other potential 3D variant for front projection (perhaps not real practical) would be a two-projector arrangement, using separate polarizations for the two projectors, and then the RealD-type passive glasses. Does anyone offer a "system" like that for high-end home theaters?

That is the LG CF3D projector Cineramax mentioned. Dual lcos projectors in one box shooting passively with built in polarizers and much simplified installation. 15k is just too much money for most of us though. I added 720p active 3D to my theater for $1200 or so and it looks amazing. Now, I have only watched 2 3D movies in a row, and played a few hours of World of Warcraft in 3D in one sitting, so I haven't had much of a chance to go insane.
I do want passive of course.
Remember the HDI concept? The HDI 100" rear projection unit was dual laser projectors in passive. Now that would be an amazing thing. I would trade my 120" screen for that.. well except the 15k price tag again.

I agree that most people looking for flat screens aren't looking at projection, but I think if people realized they could get amazing 120" 3D system for $1500 they would consider it.

I'm a passive polarised Dual-projector user.
There are a few companies offering Dual-projector systems but the prices are quite high.

Doing it yourself by picking the right off the shelf projectors, silver screens and polarising filters is significantly cheaper. It takes some time to learn the intricacies of polarisation and study which components you need according to your requirements.
Depending on your projector and silver screen choice, prices can be sky high as well as reach "affordable" ranges (**cough** look at my sig **cough**).

But the dual projectors are everything but practical to use. An enthusiast probably won't have a problem with it, but it definitely won't work with the wife/kids/friends factor.

With a passive set, every time I check out an active, the flicker is so obvious and disturbing.

You need to check out Panasonics then though I thought Samsung had pretty much corrected its flicker problems by nowl

Most of the time, flicker issues with active-shutter 3D are due to interactions with fluorescent ambient lighting. It's basically the room lighting that flickers, and not really the display itself. So there's not really anything for the set maker to fix... (At least that's been my experience.)

If your home lighting in the viewing room is just incandescent, this may be a non-issue for you. But unfortunately, the demo settings in Best Buy, Costco, etc., are usually entirely lit with fluorescent.

I can see flicker from sun light also. Basically when one looks away from the TV.

I've noticed more flicker when I look away from the TV and I think that when some glasses lose sync their flicker rate drops, and then the flicker becomes very noticeable. When I turn back to the screen, I do not notice nearly as much flicker. But, yes, if you see flicker, you'll see it better (worse) in full sunlight.

I kind of feel sorry for the people who are so sensitive to flicker that they object to active glasses. I'm glad there are alternatives, but I sure like what I have.

I've gamed all day long (10+ hours with very few breaks) and experience no head aches or eye strain what-so-ever, nor do I see any flickering either. I do hear of people that do however, that sucks. Thats a small part of the reason im all for passive, or will be when its full HD not half-res. Actually, Im for whatever method delivers the best picture quality with the glasses on...

Bring on the passive 4k 3D surround monitors with zero crosstalk that massage you.

I just saw an LG 3D tv add, they called active glasses "conventional".

I think everyone sees flicker and the majority of people are sensitive to it. Whether one can ignore it while watching the TV or not get eye/brainstrain is another story. One of our members thinks TV manufacturers should be sued for bringing a harmful technology (active) to market. Only time will tell. Good luck with yours.

I think everyone sees flicker and the majority of people are sensitive to it. Whether one can ignore it while watching the TV or not get eye/brainstrain is another story. I'm with Cineramax on this one. I'm concerned for peoples well being with active. Only time will tell. Good luck with yours. When a full rez passive comes out I'll check it out and if it is better, I'll buy one. In the mean time I'm watching everything converted to 3D because it looks better than any other HDTV I have in the house. Try that with your active.

On a side note, my wife prefers watching 2D on the 73" Mits CRT-RPTV and so does my son. It seems we 3D aficionados are in the minority either way. That's why they make chocolate, strawberry and vanilla.

- only peripheral vision is flicker (movement) sensitivite it helped to avoid predators in the past.

There IS NO FLICKER! Its as solid as watching my old 60hz 2d monitor. Totally, completely, solid. Totally......(say it with me) completely............solid. Something is wrong with your setup(or my brain). I do see flicker in store demo displays and was told it was because of the lighting, it was horrible, but none at a Sony demo where 3 different Tv's, all running 3D, were in a small dark room away from any lighting. I've also heard of people complaining about flicker, then solving the problem, so i'd bet there is something wrong with your setup.

I have seen flicker and glasses losing sync with active 3D setups.

The passive sets are smooth as butter.

If I was a betting man, I'd bet that active will be gone within the next two product cycles. 3D itself will probably disappear as a TV feature within 5 generations.

3D revolution? No eye strain?

You know, that our eyes are still focusing on the screen plane,
and converging in front or behind the screen?
This also produce eye strain, so the route
is still long for comfortable 3D viewing finally, like in real life.

starts at 2-300 million 'pixel elements' plus processing , good luck with that

Are you guys kidding about this horrible flicker problem!!! I have a un55c8000 Samsung 2010 model and I've never seen flicker. If I look at leds that are part of my equipment or the screen of a nearby computer monitor or sunlight through the windows, these things flicker. The image on the 3D TV screen never, I say never ever flickers. This is a trumped up problem that passive fans are pushing. I am sensitive to problems like crosstalk but flicker is not a problem, period.

I'm also sick of hearing about doomsday for 3D. I love it and hope it goes on indefinitely.

As far as brightness is concerned Samsung TVs ramp up the brightness when viewing 3D so that's another "problem" that's not a problem for me.

Well no one but you is silly enough to watch 23+ hours straight of 3D but you. So sorry active 3D gave you WEEKS of "optical nerve aches." Which stopped you from selling some poor sap with too much money a $425,000 (not including any audio or furniture) home theater.

As i said: the route is still long...

Yeah, it's passive. Whether you see it or not, I think it is harmful. BTW just saw "Pirates 4" 3D. 2 1/2 hours of great (shot with 4K Red cameras) passive, no ghosting super sharp 3D. Wife and I really liked it.

Like I said, I watch everything converted to 3D. Try that with your active and report back.

Haven't see the Passive yet, myself, but I did read the pros and cons of it in the following. Thought everyone might like to see:

http://www.hometheater.com/content/passive-3d-approach

Well I've got the Zalman Trimon, which uses similar FPR/Xpol-style interlacing. Its really not as bad as people think when they hear "half-resolution". For example, an interlaced 1080P 3D TV will still look sharper and more detailed than an active 720P set. This is because both eyes are getting half of a 1080P image at the same time. With active you get one full resolution image but only in one eye. So for any instant of time, both active and passive provide the exact same amount of pixel data. This is what most people fail to recognize. With active glasses you are looking at *absolutely nothing* half of the time! Obviously the active sets are going to have better PQ, but its not like the passive is going to look bad. Just like the whole 720P/1080P argument, some people just don't notice. More importantly are the limited viewing angles, which can be annoying. Even a deal-breaker if you can't carefully mount the TV in the right position. It can also mean some people will have a better experience than others viewing the same movie (for example, kids that aren't on the same vertical position as you are when you setup the TV). But passive has benefits like greater brightness, more "solid" looking 3D, no flickering, etc.

Also, using checkerboard on interlaced displays is not only pointless, you will actually lose quality. The thing people have to understand is that checkerboard is only a transmission protocol. You don't actually "see" checkerboard at any point, just as much as you don't "see" HDMI 1.4a frame-packing. Its all handled internally. The reason people like checkerboard is because of something called quincunx sampling. What this does is take a checkerboard input and convert that into two full resolution left/right images. And it does a pretty good job. So when you are viewing a Mitsubishi DLP 3D TV, what you are seeing is actually full resolution 1080P page-flipping, same as any other active 3D TV. And this is something that is not possible with the Vizio (or any other FPR display) since the interlacing is a physical part of the panel. If you used the checkerboard mode you would be interlacing in both directions, meaning the result would be a quarter-resolution image. Not so hot.

The 3D DLP RPTVs use a 960x1080 wobulated DLP mirror chip so you also only see 1/2 of the resolution at a time since the right eye data and the left eye data at displayed concurently. The 3D DLP Projectors do not use wobulated chips which is one reason they do not use the 1/2R Checkerboard format which is designed knowing a wobuulated chip will be used. I agree that upscaling from checkerboard to full resolution creates a better full screen then the 1/2 R SbS or TnB format