AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › 2 Channel Audio › The Van der Heide way of listening
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Van der Heide way of listening

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Hi,

When I started with the audio hobby, 4 years ago, I would never have thought that it would end this way.
My set sounds as natural as can be now, just because some guys here in Holland have developed a way to get the music from it.
One of them, who calls himself B.Gehakt, but whom I know as a real human being, has written an article about the technique, first in Dutch, which is my native language, and now also in English. He asked me to publish it on the AVSForum, which I'm glad to do.

You'll find the English version in the attachment.
For Dutch speakers, here is the link to the Dutch version: http://www.audiofreaks.nl/index.php?...&articleid=206

Have fun,
Marc

 

Even terug in de tijdENGELS.pdf 93.359375k . file
post #2 of 27
No offense, but I learned nothing. It's either genius above my level, or pseudo-science. I won't pretend to know which.
post #3 of 27
Thread Starter 
Michael, it is no science, just experience. I guess there are about hundred people that have experienced it, and do so daily.
The science behind it might come, or not.
Anyway, experience becomes before the science in most occasions.

Marc
post #4 of 27
People's "experience" told them that the earth was flat, that demons caused sickness and that Justin Bieber is worth listening to. I don't always trust people's experience.
post #5 of 27
Thread Starter 
Right. And you know how long it took before they realized and accepted that the earth is round?
My experience tells me that the music industry is still in the Earth is Flat stage.
This new invention tells me otherwise.

Marc
post #6 of 27
What a load of pseudoscientific hooey.
post #7 of 27
Let's not be too harsh on this audiophile piece.
It does appropriately start with "Once upon a time...."
Making no pretense as to what it actually is....and who are to believe it.
If I were to grade it as a paper, I'd give it a "Stereophile Class A"

cheers,

AJ
post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsoft View Post

Right. And you know how long it took before they realized and accepted that the earth is round?

Does this mean that Justin Bieber will sound good if given enough time?




Honestly, the "article" read like the pitch of a snake oil salesman; It had a lot of useless sentences, lots of fluff and no tangible substance. The crux of it (the numbered list) very much reminded me of how Bose might describe their "direct/reflecting" signature sound. And no, I don't hate Bose, but the article just about put me to sleep with it's very anticlimactic ending.

But hey, you promised your friend you'd post it, and you did. You can now collect your pieces of silver .
post #9 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsoft View Post

My experience tells me that the music industry is still in the Earth is Flat stage.


We will have to disagree on the state of the audio world. There has been enough science behind audio the last 30 years to make your head spin. There is enough measurements today and measurement tools today for the even hobbiests like some of us to do as much scientific discovery as possible.

The "earth is Flat" stage was long, long, long gone. Many now fully understand the science behind audio and utilize it daily to improve the real SQ of their systems.

FWIW, I never understood the link very much it seems like many holes are left on purpose (Yes, its translated). I think it will go nowhere and it definitely will never be accept by AES (You know who they are do you not).

I would follow links like this instead
http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2011/0...-training.html
post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

Let's not be too harsh on this audiophile piece.
It does appropriately start with "Once upon a time...."
Making no pretense as to what it actually is....and who are to believe it.
If I were to grade it as a paper, I'd give it a "Stereophile Class A"

For some reason, that... umm... "paper" reminded me of this poem - especially the poem's last sentence.
post #11 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rock_bottom View Post

For some reason, that... umm... "paper" reminded me of this poem - especially the poem's last sentence.

Lovely reading.
It seems to me that most, if not all, audiophiles are just like Roy in the poem.
When someone tells them: here is what you are looking for, it is in yourself, they just won't believe it.
And on and on goes the never ending struggle for the 'real' sound.

I wish them luck.

Marc
post #12 of 27
This was written in one of those smokey cafes right?
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

This was written in one of those smokey cafes right?

Dunno where it was written, but Shel Silverstein was also an author of children's books .
post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by rock_bottom View Post

Dunno where it was written, but Shel Silverstein was also an author of children's books .

Nahhh, I was talking about the listening PDF.
post #15 of 27
So why are you maligning smokey cafes, Chu?
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

So why are you maligning smokey cafes, Chu?

Yeah! Next he'll be maligning Heineken and Grolsch. Geez........
post #17 of 27
Heinekein, being in green bottles, is almost always skunky the small amount of times I have had it. Which suggests people who say they like it, may like skunky beer. Sad thought.

All green bottle beers have this problem, such as Rolling Rock. Unless you get it pretty soon after it was exposed to the light, it's never going to taste right. Sometimes I have seen rolling rock in full cases where it does not get light, and it tastes fine.

I won't even discuss clear bottled beer...ack.

Brown bottles will keep beer pretty well even in brightly lit bar cases.
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Heinekein, being in green bottles, is almost always skunky the small amount of times I have had it. Which suggests people who say they like it, may like skunky beer. Sad thought.

Well, 12 packs and cases do not see sunlight, so it's basically from 6 packs. And count me among the millions who love skunky beer! In fact, I used to buys 12pks and set them outside, open box, for a couple of hours to get the skunk result. I'm quite serious.

While I love Sam Adams beer (truly!), Kim's commercials (the first to discuss skunky beer) are a simple case of telling the public that skunky beer is a bad thing, where in reality, tens of thousands like myself, love it. But then, I haven't met many beers that I don't like .

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Brown bottles will keep beer pretty well even in brightly lit bar cases.

My oldest son is a Sr at GT, and he brews his own in his apt....and always used brown bottles. But then, this is a tad different from major brewing.
post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 
I don't like beer at all. Not even Grolsch.

Marc
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsoft View Post

I don't like beer at all. Not even Grolsch.

Marc

I knew there was something wrong with you.
post #21 of 27
Thread Starter 
Of course there is something wrong with me. I love music. That's weird. I love to have the music performed by my set as real as possibly can be. That's very suspicious. I have let undergo my set the 'gehakt' modifications, which makes me nuts altogether. I admit.
Usually, one find such creeps among utterly rich audiophiles, that spend tens of thousands at their gear, break their house to have separate powerlines, buy stuff like PS Audio powerplant, experiment with cables that don't sell under 1000 bucks a meter and so on. Just read Michael Fremer in the June edition of Stereophile. With some luck these high spenders get it right: "The DAC3.5VB trully excelled in two areas: soundstaging and quietness. It produced broad, deep soundstages on which there was great separation between instruments, and the proper perspective of texture between instruments miked closely and those farther off." (Erick lichte on the Bel canto e.One DAC3.5VB & e.One VBSI (about $ 5000 together))

I just have a modest Dacmagic, although one that was modified electrally and given a better powersource (about 700 together), which just does the same. Just imagening things, me.
To have clean power I sprinkled some drops of so called Trollensnot on the powercables entering the house, just to show that I am complete nuts.
Some people that came to listen declared things like "you can walk round the instruments", "The first time streaming convinced me", or "If this set was on a audio-show, no-one would bother to have a look at it, but meanwhile Marc can recreate the rain wood with the baka People, a concert hall with the Concertgebouworkest, or the intimacy of - there you have it - a smoky cafe. With such smooth highs, and a bass that only lacks the lowest organ pipes, and a soundstage that is not altered when he walks through the room"

Yes, definitely there is something wrong with me, not spending thousands and thousands. Thinking that this invention might shed some light on the ongoing search for better, truer music reproduction, which everyone in the audio-industry is looking after, and does not know where to look for it.

Yes, I am complete nuts. To speak with Sam tellig: I laugh my evil laugh.
And I leave you with a quote from him "We measure not what we hear, which it what counts, but what we can."

M rc
post #22 of 27
Quote:
Of course there is something wrong with me. I love music. That's weird.

What's weird is you believe that's weird.
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsoft View Post

Just read...... the June edition of Stereophile.

Well, there lies your problem . I quit subscribing to those wankers 2 decades ago. SNL could do a great skit with Gordon. But I digress....

I'm sure you know I was kidding about you being weird, but I also hope you realize you posted an article that is built-up from the beginning, and then, leads to nothing at the end? IOW, there is no real content or definitive conclusion of any sort. Your last post, which is excellent sarcasm, demonstrates that you're intelligent (imo). So, would you like to decipher for us just wtf you posted to start with?
post #24 of 27
Thread Starter 
I started to take music reproduction seriously only some years ago. So, my subscription with stereophile is only 2 years old. I love to read this magazine, especially with the knowledge I have now about music reproduction. It's great fun.
Regarding the article, I can't tell it better than that. Of course I know more about the way it works than is given by the article, but you wouldn't believe it.

I can imagize that anything related to this matter is hardly believable. It still puzzles me. The only way to get over it, would be, to hear it. At least, that is what I did. I went to 4 or 5 people with a modified set, and I heard 4 or 5 different sets, with their own characteristics, but also what popped up as the unified character. The ability to, so to say, give one the impression that you were there at the recording venue.
That was just what I was after, when I started to upgrade my humble, mediocre set.
So, I tried to get the modifications for myself, which proved to be easy. The way it is done is still in a experimental phase, but I regard this experiment as one of the best things I have encountered in 40 years of music reproduction.
Sorry, there is no science involved, it's all just done by trying, failing, and succeeding.
Eventually, some natural and technical explanation will be developed, but not by me.

If someone is willing to come to Leiden, he might hear what I'm talking about.

Marc
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Sorry, there is no science involved, it's all just done by trying, failing, and succeeding.
Eventually, some natural and technical explanation will be developed, but not by me.
I suspect we already have some perfectly good scientific explanations. But you wouldn't like them.
post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsoft View Post
Sorry, there is no science involved, it's all just done by trying, failing, and succeeding.
Like transmuting lead into gold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsoft View Post
Eventually, some natural and technical explanation will be developed, but not by me.
Someone has already explained this phenomenon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsoft View Post
If someone is willing to come to Leiden, he might hear what I'm talking about.
No psychologists locally?

cheers,

AJ
post #27 of 27
Great link AJ but do you realize it was also explained by Goethe when he wrote. Faust?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: 2 Channel Audio
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › 2 Channel Audio › The Van der Heide way of listening