Pioneer Blu-ray players 2011 - BDP-140/BDP-440/BDP-LX55/BDP-53FD - Page 24

I don't use iGear, so I wouldn't be able to tell hat ay

no friends with an ipod, iphone, or ipad?

just to be clear, so you didn't look to see if the pqls indicator on the VSX-32 would come on with bistreaming dsd from the BDP-52FD?

Yamaha BD-A1000/1010 is also Mediatek-based, but it does convert DSD to 176.4 PCM all 5 channels.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-50

Interesting. Thank you.

For those who can hear a difference with higher sampling frequencies as well as PQLS, imagine the double wammy of 176.4 KHz and PQLS! So I guess all we can do is wait for the BDP-53FD/LX55. I wish Pioneer would hurry up and release it because I'm already missing the functionality of the player I just returned!

The screenshot shows DSD>PCM under input, which I understand only tells us about the AVR, not the player, and can only mean the AVR is receiving DSD, not PCM. If an AVR receives PCM, there is no way for the AVR to 'know' where it comes from, or what the player does. It's like if you play a Blu-ray Disc with Dolby TrueHD and another disc with dts-HD MA, the player decodes both to MCH PCM to send to AVR, in both cases all the AVR 'knows' is it is receiving PCM, it can't work out the PCM is decoded from Dolby or dts track.

So far I cannot assume this chip is only capable of decimating to 88.2 kHz. If it is, then there's nothing Pioneer can do to increase it (except by artificially upsampling). But it might be higher at 176.4 kHz, in which case the final sampling rate - the maximum or lower - I think can be set by Pioneer with software (firmware). As the Yamaha uses a lower number (older) chip (MT8530) which can do 176.4 kHz one naturally assumes the newer one can also.


There is no uniform agreement on this personal preference. Decimation to PCM before DAC is needed if you 'want' to use any processing (bass management, speaker distance, room correction).


Big C was talking about the FS value which I commented on yesterday.

i think you are probably right, however, there are provisions to exchange data within HDMI, like PQLS that are proprietary so it is possible



i think it is fair to assume that the chip that mediatek is saying is their latest and greatest can output 176.4 KHz

unfortunately, there are no publicly accessible data sheets which means you would have to contact mediatek to get it



yes the fancy room correction stuff would be done on the PCM signal


fs should be 44.1 as i read the spec so it is not clear what the number on the panel means

there are two issues here

1) do any of the new players output 176.4 KHz as either 2ch or mch? we seem to know the answer to mch and frankly i would say Pioneer needs to do something about that - it is quite clear even in the October press releases from Singapore and Japan that it supports 176.4 KHz PCM SACD

2) can big C get his 176.4 KHz PCM signal with pqls

given that he has a pioneer VSX-32 which can take DSD and will also support the icontrolAV app

it would seem that sending the SACD as DSD might be a viable option

that would presume that the DSD was converted to 176.4 (vice 88.2) by the receiver

i think when Chris Walker said,
i think he might have meant it is hard to tell what the DSD information is converted to in the receiver

conceivably icontrolav would tell you the same thing

then there is pqls which i didn't know has different flavors

i see the VSX-32 having PQLS multichannel and see PQLS bitstream in players so not sure DSD PQLS works on the VSX-32, of course the simple thing would have been to look at the display and see if it was on while streaming DSD

i think we all agree that Pioneer should step up and clarify details on these players

if it is a bug in the firmware it should be noted and they need to tell us when it will get fixed (FLAC file extension, chapter numbers, 176 KHZ PCM SACD, SACD mode selection?)

if it was a mistake in the press release or information at a tradeshow, it should be corrected (FLAC, ISO, 176.4 KHz PCM SACD)

if there is a feature that is in the player and operational, it should be documented in the manual (i.e. NTFS, external hard disk)

this is the answer from Pio EU to my VSX-1120 occassional and sudden drop-outs problem:

"My name is Roel Donckers, I'm technical support engineer for Pioneer
Europe. Sorry to hear that you are suffering from this problem.

Ever since we received the first signs of this problem from customers in
Europe, we started investigating this. It's been a month already, but so
far we just managed to get a setup in our technical lab which has this
problem as well. Unfortunatly, it only resets approximatly 1 time in a
week. This slows down our investigation dramatically.

So far, we've found out that this problem seems to be triggered when both
AV receiver and Blu-ray player are connected to the same LAN network and
connected with HDMI (Control on/off). Disconnecting 1 lan cable seems, or
connecting AV receiver and blu-ray players in seperated networks (where
they can't see each other) seem to eliminate this problem totally.

I'm sorry that we don't have all the information yet and we can't provide
an answer, but you could help us in this investigation by confirming some
things. (We need 2 weeks to confirm whether a setting makes any
difference).

If you reconnect the LAN cable to the BDP-440 and set the BDP-440 setting:
"Network - DLNA "Disable"", does the dropouts still occur then?"

strange, isn´t it?
immediately disconnecting LAN from the BDP-440 two days ago however did help...VSX-1120 acts normally as before

It is amazing they got that far with a bug that occurs only once a week

Did you try disabling dlna like they asked?

If yours locks up quicker they can troubleshoot faster

True
I´m still at work, will try it tonite...

Well it looks like Pioneer Europe is quite serious!
Great to see a 'big' company taking support as important as it should be

A quick question regarding the bdp-140. Does it have DVD-A capabilities? The product sheet does not mention it. Thanks.

nope.
only SACD
DVD-A starts at BDP-440/52FD

Someone asked me why I would prefer to have the player to have everything converted to PCM. I told them that I'm not sure if my receiver can engage PQLS when the player is bitstreaming. Thanks to jleholeho who has a similar receiver to mine. Unfortunately, when bitstreaming, the PQLS light doesn't come on. Yet when the player is converting everything to PCM, the PQLS light does come on. I'm one of the few who hears a difference when engaging PQLS. Therefore, I need the player to convert everything to PCM. This includes SACDs. The combination of the 176.4 KHz sampling frequency and PQLS would be a double wammy, if you know what I mean. And btw, thank you, jleholeho for testing the PQLS thing for us.

Just want to chime in that in my part of Asia they offered to check out the Laser Disc player that died. I'm pretty impressed by their customer service which is not universal as in the US.

Credit where it is due.

Also in Canada. I've been buying Pioneer products in Canada since 1992 and have yet to encounter any problem with their customer service. Judging from what's reported here, the problematic one is just Pioneer USA.

I was not impressed with my sole dealing with pioneer USA customer service.

They seem to need some basic training in how to deal with people.

+1 on that. Not particularly informative & an "attitude".

I agree tat Pioneer of Asia and Europe have better support. However, when you keep asking them things a lot, they might refer your queeries to Pioneer USA if they find out you're in the US. It's a good thing that walkamo reads our posts. The fact that Pioneer USA's support isn't as good should get his attention.

maybe....

I'm not sure I'd count on it. They have been silent on the dts bomb issue that has cropped up in older players & some of the earlier SC models. Chris was told this a number of months ago, said he'd look into it, said he could duplicate it, but hasn't provided any information, nor has Pio US publicly posted any info about receiver or player FW updates to fix it.

IF you have an SC model with the problem, it's up to YOU to call and be told to take it to an auth repair shop for a FW update that may have been out since July but only one post in one other forum makes a reference to Pioneer saying they "have a fix" for receivers as of early October.

And no post here about any of this in any thread.
How's that any better?

For your weekend amusement if you didn't see it:

You're on your own with Pioneer - Customer Service is awful

Maybe I missed it but did anyone verify that the 140/440/52fd will play 1920x1080 mkv in mpeg2, h264, avc

i was perusing the japanese lx55/440/140 manual

http://www3.pioneer.co.jp/manual/man...55&chr=&page=1

still says 1280x720 for mkv and only h264 AVC but no MPEG2? The US manuals were never that specific

I'll bet you know what I'm gonna ask. Anything about SACD as DSD, PCM at 88.2 KHz, or PCM at 176.4 KHz?

No

And I am guessing no support for playing iso and with mkv limited to 720p and no mpeg2, limited or no support for DVD/bd on hard disk

Still no mention of NTFS or external hard disk either although that seems to be working

Flac for the lx55 but it appears no access to the home media gallery thru icontrolav so you would have to be in the same room and turn on you tv

It looks like the whole lineup is a bunch of nice looking over priced spinners

Interesting this sacd pcm issue.To quote a post from computer audiophile;


A really good converter as mentioned previously is not cheap and its worth noting that many sacds were created from pcm sources iirc. Remains to be seen if these players have the processing grunt to do multichannel 24/176 pcm.

I know the oppo 93/95 cant decode dts hdma 24/192 multichannel ;bitstream no problemo If your speakers are fairly equidistant ;sending a dsd bitstream to where the real processing is is worth a try for sure[ if you have dsd dacs] ; wont mention jitter as this would devolve the thread

This reminds me 2 of the 2ch pqls for the pio51 et al and the next gen managing multichannel pqls. Next gen for 24/176 multi; 2ch only for now ? Or a possible firmware upgrade as the chip can handle it ;hopefully better time wise than a certain dts hdma upgrade ..

Yes many if not most SACDs are from PCM, but say if it is from PCM 24/96 originally, then a player that only can do 24/88.2 arguably isn't good enough.

When was the audiophile quote written? Players from 2006 (Arcam DV137 and DV139) and 2008 (Sony SCD-XA5400ES) can do 176.4 kHz (I have all of these), and so can entry-level Sony BDPs from last year, so now in late 2011 if we are told players do not have enough power it doesn't hold water.


They can but only to 24/96 MCH. I took this up some time ago with 2L, the studio that makes 24/192 dts-HD Blu-rays and I was given the understanding that it would be looked into.

You are right.

Apart from that I am still waiting for a clarification from Walkamo with regard to the in player DSD>PCM sample frequency issue (and the track number display of course).


The Yamaha players have an older MediaTek-chip and can convert DSD to multichannel 24/176.4 kHz PCM according to TuenMuner here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21135590

Certainly was written a while ago [and agree about the time passing] in reference to an atlona outboard dsd 'de embedder' converter[at-hd577]. I dont regard this as a big deal as many here @ avs take this stance;


If anything Ide rather have fewer conversions and just send pure dsd to my ess dacs that have special jitter circuitry I like to think the oppo downmixes the dsd for those with lower quality 24/96 dacs ; not that their not an endangered species Oppo more than likely did listening tests before ok'ing 88.2.

The 24/96 multichannel limit would certainly be nastier with more than 3 24/192 multichannel discs out there

I e-mailed the Pioneer Asia Center in and they said that I needed to provide my country of residence so they can forward my issue to the appropriate department. If I do that, then they'd forward my message back to Pioneer USA! One thing. I have decided to purchase the BDP-53FD anyway because I actually watch movies more than listen to music. Believe me, with the MT8555 as the player's brain, it does my CDs, DVDs, and BDs total justice. For those of us who believe in DSD's full potential, yet can't afford a receiver that converts DSD straight to analog without the cutoff, we'll somehow have to stand together and let Pioneer know how we feel about that possible inconsistancy between the press release and what the actual player does. Another thing. Go to http://www.parts.pioneerelectronics.com . Do a search for BDP-52FD . Notice that the service manual is for the BDP-52FD AND the BDP-440? This further prooves my point that while the firmware may be different, the hardware is the same! Maybe I'll write a snale-mail letter to the service department about this or something. Sorry for the rant. I just feel like I'm banging my head against a wall trying to get to the bottom of this.

You already know the bottom line, it doesn't do what you want.

And so in an act of defiance, you will spend even more money on the top of the line pioneer bd player!

That should wake pioneer up.