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PC gaming to make a comeback? - Page 2

post #31 of 130
There are some pretty HUGE negatives to PC gaming that people don't think a lot about:


1. No Renting - Not being able to rent games, does suck to a degree. One nice thing that the consoles have going for them, is the fact that I can run up to RedBox and rent L.A. Noire for a couple of days for 2 bucks. (rent early in the morning on Saturday, return before 9pm on Sunday). I could get a really, really, really good idea as to whether L.A. Noire is worth my time, with a quick Redbox rental.

Now, immediately PC gamers will say, "Well, there is usually a demo you can download, so you don't need to rent". Hey, Demos are cool and all, but playing a 1 level demo (or small portion of one level) doesn't give you anywhere near the insight on a game like having the full entire game, even if you only have it for a 36-hour period of time (Redbox).

So, you really can't spin the fact that we are unable to rent PC games.

2. No Legitimate Used Game Market - While the gaming industry, and publishers in particular hate the used game market, as a consumer, it's a godsend. I'm not talking about buying used games at GameStop. GameStop is a ripoff. I'm talking about finding that game you want on Craigslist for 8 bucks with no tax.

Now, I know what PC gamers are going to say about this: "Well, yeah, there really isn't a used game market because of the crazy DRM stipulations, but we don't need a used game market because the prices are so cheap anyways."

Well, I will agree that prices of PC games drop pretty rapidly, and if you're patient and watch for sales, and use the various digital download services, you can get games pretty cheap, but there are always certain games that don't seem to drop in price. Take the original Crysis. Crysis has been around for awhile now, and if it was a console game, I could get it on Craigslist for about 8 bucks. But, it's a PC exclusive, and they know that many people use that game as a benchmark for their PC's, so you rarely can find the original Crysis for super cheap. So, while I agree for the most part, there are always a few exceptions to the rule.


3. Same room Co-Op or Versus Play

Ok, I'll admit that I don't really know how this works. There aren't very many sports games on the PC, and it seems that the ones that make it over are rush job ports that aren't handled very well (NBA 2K11). I know they made Street Fighter 4 for the PC, and I'm guessing that two people can play each other if you just hook up an extra wired 360 gamepad, but I've never tried it myself. I'm assuming it's the same thing with the sports games that do get a port. I'm guessing you can play another person.

However, I'm not sure it's like the consoles, in the fact that you can have 4 or 5 friends playing the game of Fifa 10 or NBA 2K11. I'm not saying it's impossible, I've never tried it, but it's just that it seems to me like most PC games assume it's just going to be one player sitting at a desk playing the game. They don't realize that people can now play PC games on the sofa, hooked up to a big screen.

4. Patches and Configurations and incompatibilities - Yes, console games have patches too, but it's not quite the same. On the PC, you have to go into your menu and configure a whole bunch of stuff. Then you start playing and the game starts locking up on you or whatever, and you have to go back into the settings and turn off V-Sync or something. You always have to tinker with stuff to get it working right. Yes, sometimes you'll play a certain game, and all you have to do is put all the settings at max, and everything works perfectly, but more often than not, you have to adjust stuff, sometimes several times, and you have to do it each time you fire up that game.

With console gaming, everything is so standardized that you just pop in the game and play. Maybe there is a patch that needs to be downloaded and applied, but all that pretty much happens automatically, and there isn't much fussing around with all the various settings just to get the game to run.




I'm not trying to be a hater at all, and I've just spent 1 grand jumping on the PC bandwagon, but I will admit that there are some pretty huge downsides. I'm probably forgetting a few things too.
post #32 of 130
I like the hobby aspect of PC gaming, and that includes spending a little time to achieve optimal in-game settings. Furthermore, access to in-depth customizability allows us to play many older classics in proper widescreen at virtually any resolution. I do not like being completely locked-down.

You mention vsync, well, at least the PC environment allows practically all games to be played with vsync enabled. I think screen tearing is one of the biggest graphical nuisances.

As for patches, games bought through Steam automatically get patched if one is ever issued. For games bought through other methods, it is not hard nor time-consuming to download/install a patch and keep the file on a backup drive for future installs.

The used game and rental issues are minimal problems as far as I'm concerned. I have rarely been burned in this area.
post #33 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

I'm not trying to be a hater at all, and I've just spent 1 grand jumping on the PC bandwagon, but I will admit that there are some pretty huge downsides. I'm probably forgetting a few things too.

Dude, a grand is nothing.... pennies really. I could have bought a summer house in the Hamptoms with the money I have spent on PCs over the years. Just enjoy it and stop worrying about money. Remember you can not take it with you. I plan to die broke with a keyboard and mouse in my hand!
post #34 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackssr View Post

Just enjoy it and stop worrying about money. Remember you can not take it with you!

It's funny you mention that, because every time I make a large purchase that is primarily only going to benefit myself, I just think.... "Who knows how many days I have left. Anything could happen at anytime, and I could be gone in a flash. So, I should try to enjoy things why I'm here, and try to experience as many cool things as I can, but I do have obligations I gotta deal with. Mortgage, wife, kids, expenses, etc, etc.

I'm sure there are people on here that make some really nice annual incomes, but I have to admit that I'm not one of them. I'm barely making ends meet, yet I still have the taste for the finer things when it comes to audio/video. As poor as I am, I totally renovated my 3 car garage into a pretty decent home theater room with legit acoustical materials, 2:35:1 scope screen, etc, etc. I try to squeeze every bit of juice out of every dollar that comes my way to still take care of all my bills, but still have a bit of money left over for my never ending audio/video quest.
post #35 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

It's funny you mention that, because every time I make a large purchase that is primarily only going to benefit myself, I just think.... "Who knows how many days I have left. Anything could happen at anytime, and I could be gone in a flash. So, I should try to enjoy things why I'm here, and try to experience as many cool things as I can, but I do have obligations I gotta deal with. Mortgage, wife, kids, expenses, etc, etc.

I'm sure there are people on here that make some really nice annual incomes, but I have to admit that I'm not one of them. I'm barely making ends meet, yet I still have the taste for the finer things when it comes to audio/video. As poor as I am, I totally renovated my 3 car garage into a pretty decent home theater room with legit acoustical materials, 2:35:1 scope screen, etc, etc. I try to squeeze every bit of juice out of every dollar that comes my way to still take care of all my bills, but still have a bit of money left over for my never ending audio/video quest.

Hey man, you buy what you can afford. Good for you to do what you did though! Squeezing cash out of rocks is just what the internet was made for....well that and porn lol
post #36 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
These are just some of the reasons why PC gaming is a tough sell these days.

SNIP
Alot of people talk about these things and the cost of gaming but is it really that much more?

You MUST and I mean MUST have a computer now days in order to function as a reasonable human. Not having one is like not having a phone years ago. In fact now days I expect that you could skip a phone but not a computer in many peoples lives.

Buying a gaming rig is expensive if you count the whole thing but it is not if you consider the fact that you just take the money you would have spent on a console and apply it to a better computer. Or how about multiple consoles and accessories. Most people spend quite a bit of money on their consoles and accessories.

Second PCs have always been graphically superior to consoles, even when consoles are new. But no one ever said you have to run a game at full settings. If you want to save some money nothing wrong with turning the graphics down a little. I always ask people if you were willing to settle for reduced graphics and reduced abilities on your console why do you not do that when you are hard up for cash on a PC.

This arguement has always gone on and it reminds of people with Macs. They often compare a $1000 mac to a $500 PC and talk about how their mac was faster or had a better screen or something. People do the same with consoles they say in order to get a PC I need to spend $1000 so it is more expensive. Well how expensive is it when you have to buy a console with proprietory over priced controllers, and connections and a cheap PC to do the other things in your life?

If you honestly look at life, you realize that consoles have always been more popular than PCs and that will never change. But at the same time the most innovative and cool games have mostly come from PC gaming, and were eventually dumbed down and put on consoles. And sadly PCs can do everything a console can and more. But for some reason humans just can never get that. Now days the average home is full of tons of electronics that will do a small portion of what a PC does. In the end people paid alot more for all those separate electronics then they would have if they just invested a couple hundred dollars in a better PC.

Also as for configuring PC games, you almost never need to actually do that, most games auto detect hardware and put your system into a decent setting. However with consoles most settings are simply not an option. For some reason people think that consoles are better because they do not even give you a choice they just turn down graphics and lock them into place. Whatever FPS you get you are stuck with.

The only real place that consoles win is in multi person gaming, IE everyone sitting on the couch. But even that is becoming a so so point given that more and more games are not even shipping with split screen capabilities for consoles. There is also no reason it cannot work for PCs but companies do not like to do it for PCs because not alot of people do it there are various games where the code was all there and people could hack around to get split screen working but the companies hid it, and because now days companies have found the new cash cow is to sell the same person the same game 3 times. IE buy the PS3, XBOX 360 and PC version so you can play with friends on each different platform.

Anyhow for as long has humans have been creating products a very open flexible product has never been the way that companies like to go because it is less profitable to them. So we will probably never see a change. But games will never stop pouring into the PC at the same time PC gaming will never have the vast numbers as console gaming. But then again I dont really care because most console games are so nerfed they are no fun to play anyway. The only reason it bothers me is because so many companies are nerfing the PC version because of consoles.
post #37 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by PubFiction View Post

You MUST and I mean MUST have a computer now days in order to function as a reasonable human. Not having one is like not having a phone years ago. In fact now days I expect that you could skip a phone but not a computer in many peoples lives.

Buying a gaming rig is expensive if you count the whole thing but it is not if you consider the fact that you just take the money you would have spent on a console and apply it to a better computer. Or how about multiple consoles and accessories. Most people spend quite a bit of money on their consoles and accessories.

You do need a computer but you do not need a desktop PC. A cheap laptop does everything most people need, and it's more convenient. The needs of Word, Excel, and the web have not kept pace with the technology. You don't need a GeForce 580 to surf the web.

The desktop PC market is in decline. Less people are buying 'rigs' and putting them on their desk with a monitor. It's why Intel/Nvidia/AMD are sinking so much money into ULV chips. People have a laptop and use it while they watch TV in a living room. My home does not even HAVE a desk. I would have needed one 10 years ago or even 5 years ago but now I do not.

Yes there are gaming laptops but they are really expensive, have poor battery life, and are hard to upgrade. Hooking up a PC to a HDTV is nice but makes it functionally a specialized console. I wouldn't want to work on Excel or Word on my HDTV.

Fact is for many people it makes much more sense to get a laptop + console than it does to get a desktop.
post #38 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

You do need a computer but you do not need a desktop PC. A cheap laptop does everything most people need, and it's more convenient. The needs of Word, Excel, and the web have not kept pace with the technology. You don't need a GeForce 580 to surf the web.

The desktop PC market is in decline. Less people are buying 'rigs' and putting them on their desk with a monitor. It's why Intel/Nvidia/AMD are sinking so much money into ULV chips. People have a laptop and use it while they watch TV in a living room. My home does not even HAVE a desk. I would have needed one 10 years ago or even 5 years ago but now I do not.

Yes there are gaming laptops but they are really expensive, have poor battery life, and are hard to upgrade. Hooking up a PC to a HDTV is nice but makes it functionally a specialized console. I wouldn't want to work on Excel or Word on my HDTV.

Fact is for many people it makes much more sense to get a laptop + console than it does to get a desktop.

I have a DVI connection to my monitor and an HDMI running to my AVR for this very reason. I can then choose when I want to use my PC in my home theater setup, and when I don't.

I certainly appreciate your laptop argument, as that is all I have really been using for the past 3 years (until this weekend when I built a PC).
post #39 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

You do need a computer but you do not need a desktop PC. A cheap laptop does everything most people need, and it's more convenient. The needs of Word, Excel, and the web have not kept pace with the technology. You don't need a GeForce 580 to surf the web.

You also don't need a 580 to game which is my point. There is this huge myth that you need a $2000 rig to play games. When that is only the top 1% of the population that has that. I have gamed for 10 years in lots of very competitive games. I have seen the very best players in those games often run very very crappy PCs. You will not get all the eye candy but in fact it will be better than a console. And with the PC you can choose to bring it down to increase FPS. The fact is that PC gamers just expect way more out of games. When console games were running 30 FPS and telling customers that was fine PC gamers were not accepting any less than 60 and shooting for 100. But if you only played at 30 you were not any worse off on the PC. Lots of people game on laptops too, its not a problem you can hook up a mouse if you want. When I goto LANs I dont bother with a desktop I just take my work laptop.


I can tell you the only difference between a gaming computer and any other computer is usually intels garbage integrated graphics. Swap that out for a $100 video card and you can game just fine.
post #40 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by PubFiction View Post

I can tell you the only difference between a gaming computer and any other computer is usually intels garbage integrated graphics. Swap that out for a $100 video card and you can game just fine.

A $100 video card in a desktop is great. But if you never have a desktop... that's my point. People aren't buying desktops.

Some laptops are good for games. Many are not. Unless you explicitly look for a laptop with a decent GPU (and pay for it) then you're probably not going to get one. And when you buy a laptop, the CPU/GPU are fixed. There's only so much you can do.

I never said you needed to spend $2000 to game on the PC. But it's not like there is a desktop in everyone's home, waiting for a good GPU. It sort of was in the 1990's and that's why 3dfx blew up. But nowadays people buy laptops and they don't buy them with the intention of gaming.
post #41 of 130
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post


A $100 video card in a desktop is great. But if you never have a desktop... that's my point. People aren't buying desktops.

Some laptops are good for games. Many are not. Unless you explicitly look for a laptop with a decent GPU (and pay for it) then you're probably not going to get one. And when you buy a laptop, the CPU/GPU are fixed. There's only so much you can do.

I never said you needed to spend $2000 to game on the PC. But it's not like there is a desktop in everyone's home, waiting for a good GPU. It sort of was in the 1990's and that's why 3dfx blew up. But nowadays people buy laptops and they don't buy them with the intention of gaming.

I see your point, but anyone with any sort of gaming hobby is not going to buy a laptop as their main machine. If they did, they screwed up.
post #42 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

I see your point, but anyone with any sort of gaming hobby is not going to buy a laptop as their main machine. If they did, they screwed up.

This is exactly the mentality that reduces PC gaming. You do realize that millions of people buy laptops for gaming every year? And for most of them it is their only rig. What is the laptop lacking? Why is it that people spread this fud.

I have been gaming for 10 years and played in some games where my clan was #1 or #2 for much of the game. I never had SLI, never had a top end CPU, some times I played on a laptop and I never ever used a keyboard that cost more than $15. Honestly I didnt have any problems that were not my own physical or time limitations.

Is it nice to have the loaded out works? Yes it is but it is not needed at all but people are always trying to pitch this idea that you gotta have a desktop and you must have this or that when its all BS. Most console players have ****** TVs with several hundred ms of input lag and caps of 30 or 60 fps. Yet they game and no one ever tells them you cannot game on a TV. Every console game I ever played felt laggy as hell and very slow yet you do not hear those people complaining. Why is it that people hold PC gaming to a completely different standard and scare so many would be gamers away.

As far as the desktops arguement yes it is better to game on a better desktop but it is not better to game on a crappy desktop vs a decent laptop. And people can upgrade CPUs on some laptops, and most people never open any computer up ever anyway so for them its just a matter of picking a computer with a mid range graphics card from the start. All I am saying is if you are helping a friend pick out a computer doesnt matter if it is a desktop or a laptop point him toward a mid level graphics card. At least he has the option of gaming and movies or anything else which can take advantage of that card will benifit. Heck even flash is using the gpu now.
post #43 of 130
I've had a few different gaming laptops and they really don't compare with a good desktop but i mean, you can't really expect them to. Too many limitations for the laptop (though some are quite badass). Once external GPU's become more mainstream, then maybe, but until then, i only resort to my laptop if I'm away from home or upgrading my desktop.
post #44 of 130
Microsoft claims Windows 8 will start "a real new push into PC gaming."

It will probably amount to not much more than just talk, but I do want Alan Wake on the PC.
post #45 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by PubFiction View Post

Swap that out for a $100 video card and you can game just fine.

A $100.00 video card will not cut it at all for those of us that game on a 30" LCD at high resolution. Most modern games will stutter on a low end card. The magic price point for a gaming card is in the $ 199.99- $ 249.99 range. At this performance level modern games will run well at medium resolutions, anything less it pays to get a console and call it a day.
post #46 of 130
I've been gaming on PC since I got my first rat Shack XT back around 89/90 and it steadily got better as time and tech improved.
I doubt I ever spent 1k up front just to build or buy any of my systems. Most are built with much of what I already have on hand that still works fine with a newer processor or video card.
I probably have spent many thousands over the years upgrading and replacing things but the great part is I can do any game I want for the most part, plus so much more with my hex core CPU and a older 4870x2 video card.
I usually stay a generation back and end up with a lot of good used or older new stuff and can play most any game or run any program just fine. Like said if it runs too slow I can just dumb down the graphics a bit, like most of us had to do when Crysis came out, it still looked and played great with some of the eye candy disabled.
The newer console games probably wouldn't be anywhere if PC's hadn't showed them what was possible, like when the original Doom first came out...
I see no reason to waste my money on a console that I can't do a lot of other things with, or upgrade as it gets out of date.
If something on my tower PC doesn't do it anymore I can replace or upgrade the offending part and be gaming or burning DVD's/Blu Rays, watching HDTV or videos, doing my taxes, making a list of movies I own, all kinds of cool stuff.
post #47 of 130
People seem to think I am argueing that a laptop is just as good as a desktop or something. I am not doing that. Obviously if you want to jack stuff up and have a ripping setup you need a case that engulfs 4 cubic feet of volume and you need 3 30 inch monitors spread out with eyefinity and tri sli or crossfire. All I am saying is a laptop will game fine, will it be amazing, no but it will do just fine.

For the masses of people in the real world, if they simply made sure when they purchase a computer they make that $100 - $150 investment in a mid level graphics card, they will have the great payoff of allowing you to play most PC games just fine. And in fact that will probably give them better graphics and fps than any console. I have been there most of my gaming life and it has worked very well for me. The only exception to this rule is that first year when consoles come out and they are heavily subsidized, but even then it is not a fair comparison I mean the PS3 cost $600 back then, you could really upgrade a laptop or desktop for an added $600. And for that money in the console you get nothing but the console and a controller. You still need to buy a monitor or TV.

The vast majority of people in the real world whom use consoles are the people I am concerned with. They only have 1 monitor that is almost never more than 1080p, they only have 1 computer. Saving money is important to them. For those people I feel they would save more money in the long run if they used a windows computer for gaming, I dont care if it is a laptop or desktop. They would gain the side effect of everything being faster and more enjoyable on their computer by adding the GPU. Heck even flash now days is GPU accelerated. Look no company would make consoles if they were not going to make alot more money doing that then just selling you a PC. There is something in the math that just does not add up when people tell you a console is cheaper. It is not cheaper when you take everything into account. M$ knows this, console games cost an extra $10, they make people pay another $10 just to get 2 maps extra. Controllers cost more than keyboards and do less. After 2 years the console is an outdated system that you could not even sell if it was a PC.

The big problem I see is now days there is this myth that the only reason to PC game is if you are going to go for the biggest baddest system ever. When the fact is only a very very small percent of the population ever runs such systems. EVEN in PC gaming. And when I suggest such blasphamy as it is OK to game on a PC with a $100 video card and a lowly 1080p monitor people come telling me I am wrong. Why I am wrong thats the great thing about PC gaming you can do it at any level you want. But hey if that is the way people want to view it fine, you are only hurting your own gaming experience as you run around telling everyone you know that there is no way you can acceptably game on a PC unless you drop $1000 or more and only if you have a desktop. That attitude will put you squarely in the position of never having a large PC gaming community to play with and always being fed bad console ports. GL with that. Me personally I am always reccomending every person who I help picks a computer with a decent graphics card EVEN if they say they do not game, because you know 80% of the time after those people get that computer and see what it can do they start gaming.
post #48 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by PubFiction View Post
Obviously if you want to jack stuff up and have a ripping setup you need a case that engulfs 4 cubic feet of volume and you need 3 30 inch monitors spread out with eyefinity and tri sli or crossfire.
Is there any other way to game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PubFiction View Post
For the masses of people in the real world, if they simply made sure when they purchase a computer they make that $100 - $150 investment in a mid level graphics card, they will have the great payoff of allowing you to play most PC games just fine.
Low end graphics cards are $ 100-199.99 range
Mid level graphic cards are $ 199.99- 299.99 range
High end graphic cards are $299.99 and up.

A low end card will play modern games at low resolution with little detail. At this point it is better to buy a console.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PubFiction View Post
And when I suggest such blasphamy as it is OK to game on a PC with a $100 video card and a lowly 1080p monitor people come telling me I am wrong.
A $ 100.00 low end video card cannot do 1920 x 1080/1200 with all details on and run at an acceptable frame rate. It is not gonna happen, sorry. and you can forget DX11. ( MY 580 SLI rig struggles with Metro 2033/DX11 with all details on)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PubFiction View Post
The big problem I see is now days there is this myth that the only reason to PC game is if you are going to go for the biggest baddest system ever
I am sorry but I feel this way.. My system destroys the consoles. If it didn't or if I could not afford to game this way I would just use my PS3 or buy a Xbox360 and call it a day. Go big or go home. :-)
post #49 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post
Microsoft claims Windows 8 will start "a real new push into PC gaming."

It will probably amount to not much more than just talk, but I do want Alan Wake on the PC.
HA! HA! Just like GFWL was supposed to!

As long as MS sells a home console, all they'll put on the pc is "sloppy seconds".
post #50 of 130
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

Microsoft claims Windows 8 will start "a real new push into PC gaming."

It will probably amount to not much more than just talk, but I do want Alan Wake on the PC.

I'm surprised someone like ATI or Nvidia hasn't figured out a way to bypass windows all together. If you think about, most PC's have all it takes to be a gaming system. CPU, GPU,more then enough ram, Media Reader, input device, storage, display device, and Internet connection, sound card etc. We don't live in a world where there are 150 different sound cards anymore. For the most part, there is some standardization now. Creative EAX, ATI, Nvidia, Intel and so on. The problem is Windows is just full of stuff that consumes most of these resources and causes issues itself. What are these consoles if anything but a PC with a specific OS locked down for security reasons.

Think about what OS actually runs a console, and how small it really is. Why not have a game specific OS where you do a one time boot from DVD, it sets up a partition strictly for this "gaming OS", maybe another partition for game storage and profiles. From this point on, you buy or rent your games, you will have to turn off windows and boot from DVD of course, then it goes into the game OS - no windows required which means all of the system resources are available to the game and gaming OS. As for the different video cards and cpus and such, well, lets call it gaming levels. If the gaming OS detects certain hardware, you play at a different gaming level ie graphics levels. The game is still playable at lower game levels and older hardware, but as you add new hardware, things look better.

Linux distros use standard drivers for everything these days and they do just fine. Heck the PS3 was basically a PC kind of already doing this idea,just backwards as it booted into "game OS" and from there you can install "other OS" ie linux and boot to either as you choose. of course they removed it, but hey.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the xbox Os is just a stripped down version of win2k? an ATI video card and some other generic hardware. Both consoles barely have any ram and video ram. Imagine what they could do with a full 2gig video ram or 8 gig of ram and the latest multi-core cpus!

Hey, I'm bored, slow day at work...I'm just say'n
post #51 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

I'm surprised someone like ATI or Nvidia hasn't figured out a way to bypass windows all together. If you think about, most PC's have all it takes to be a gaming system. CPU, GPU,more then enough ram, Media Reader, input device, storage, display device, and Internet connection, sound card etc. We don't live in a world where there are 150 different sound cards anymore. For the most part, there is some standardization now. Creative EAX, ATI, Nvidia, Intel and so on. The problem is Windows is just full of stuff that consumes most of these resources and causes issues itself. What are these consoles if anything but a PC with a specific OS locked down for security reasons.

Think about what OS actually runs a console, and how small it really is. Why not have a game specific OS where you do a one time boot from DVD, it sets up a partition strictly for this "gaming OS", maybe another partition for game storage and profiles. From this point on, you buy or rent your games, you will have to turn off windows and boot from DVD of course, then it goes into the game OS - no windows required which means all of the system resources are available to the game and gaming OS. As for the different video cards and cpus and such, well, lets call it gaming levels. If the gaming OS detects certain hardware, you play at a different gaming level ie graphics levels. The game is still playable at lower game levels and older hardware, but as you add new hardware, things look better.

Linux distros use standard drivers for everything these days and they do just fine.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the xbox Os is just a stripped down version of win2k? an ATI video card and some other generic hardware. Both consoles barely have any ram and video ram. Imagine what they could do with a full 2gig video ram or 8 gig of ram and the latest multi-core cpus!

Hey, I'm bored, slow day at work...I'm just say'n

Pretending that we're talking about a completely new platform here, I'd rather just have a new deal consisting of an x86-based motherboard with a quad-core, eight-thread CPU/GPU hybrid like AMD's Fusion with DX10/11-capable performance, 2GB of on-board GDDR to use as shared memory, an embedded OS like the 360, an optical drive, and high-capacity user-serviceable storage (HDD or SSD) like the PS3 to store game files. Systems like that already exist in the PC world so it would be a snap to put it in a console-type setup with the right case design.
post #52 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

There are some pretty HUGE negatives to PC gaming that people don't think a lot about:


1. No Renting - Not being able to rent games, does suck to a degree. One nice thing that the consoles have going for them, is the fact that I can run up to RedBox and rent L.A. Noire for a couple of days for 2 bucks. (rent early in the morning on Saturday, return before 9pm on Sunday). I could get a really, really, really good idea as to whether L.A. Noire is worth my time, with a quick Redbox rental.

Now, immediately PC gamers will say, "Well, there is usually a demo you can download, so you don't need to rent". Hey, Demos are cool and all, but playing a 1 level demo (or small portion of one level) doesn't give you anywhere near the insight on a game like having the full entire game, even if you only have it for a 36-hour period of time (Redbox).

So, you really can't spin the fact that we are unable to rent PC games.

2. No Legitimate Used Game Market - While the gaming industry, and publishers in particular hate the used game market, as a consumer, it's a godsend. I'm not talking about buying used games at GameStop. GameStop is a ripoff. I'm talking about finding that game you want on Craigslist for 8 bucks with no tax.

Now, I know what PC gamers are going to say about this: "Well, yeah, there really isn't a used game market because of the crazy DRM stipulations, but we don't need a used game market because the prices are so cheap anyways."

Well, I will agree that prices of PC games drop pretty rapidly, and if you're patient and watch for sales, and use the various digital download services, you can get games pretty cheap, but there are always certain games that don't seem to drop in price. Take the original Crysis. Crysis has been around for awhile now, and if it was a console game, I could get it on Craigslist for about 8 bucks. But, it's a PC exclusive, and they know that many people use that game as a benchmark for their PC's, so you rarely can find the original Crysis for super cheap. So, while I agree for the most part, there are always a few exceptions to the rule.


3. Same room Co-Op or Versus Play

Ok, I'll admit that I don't really know how this works. There aren't very many sports games on the PC, and it seems that the ones that make it over are rush job ports that aren't handled very well (NBA 2K11). I know they made Street Fighter 4 for the PC, and I'm guessing that two people can play each other if you just hook up an extra wired 360 gamepad, but I've never tried it myself. I'm assuming it's the same thing with the sports games that do get a port. I'm guessing you can play another person.

However, I'm not sure it's like the consoles, in the fact that you can have 4 or 5 friends playing the game of Fifa 10 or NBA 2K11. I'm not saying it's impossible, I've never tried it, but it's just that it seems to me like most PC games assume it's just going to be one player sitting at a desk playing the game. They don't realize that people can now play PC games on the sofa, hooked up to a big screen.

4. Patches and Configurations and incompatibilities - Yes, console games have patches too, but it's not quite the same. On the PC, you have to go into your menu and configure a whole bunch of stuff. Then you start playing and the game starts locking up on you or whatever, and you have to go back into the settings and turn off V-Sync or something. You always have to tinker with stuff to get it working right. Yes, sometimes you'll play a certain game, and all you have to do is put all the settings at max, and everything works perfectly, but more often than not, you have to adjust stuff, sometimes several times, and you have to do it each time you fire up that game.

With console gaming, everything is so standardized that you just pop in the game and play. Maybe there is a patch that needs to be downloaded and applied, but all that pretty much happens automatically, and there isn't much fussing around with all the various settings just to get the game to run.




I'm not trying to be a hater at all, and I've just spent 1 grand jumping on the PC bandwagon, but I will admit that there are some pretty huge downsides. I'm probably forgetting a few things too.

You are not a Gamer anymore than a guy who rents a motorcycle on the weekend is a Biker.
post #53 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackssr View Post

A $ 100.00 low end video card cannot do 1920 x 1080/1200 with all details on and run at an acceptable frame rate. It is not gonna happen, sorry. and you can forget DX11. ( MY 580 SLI rig struggles with Metro 2033/DX11 with all details on)

Well, that does depend on the game being played.
post #54 of 130
Most really high end cards even had trouble with Crysis when it came out so very true.
My 3870x2 and quad core could play it nicely at mid level graphics but anything higher looked awesome but was unplayable.
You can play most games at mid level with most current quad core systems with a mid level video card, if you want to play at max with good frame rates get out your wallet.
That's why I stay a generation back with most of my goodies, way cheaper and still very capable of playing most things with good frame rates and mid to high video goodies enabled.
post #55 of 130
Battlefield 3 is coming - been waiting for years. I'm holding off on a new desktop build this Fall right before the game comes out. I've also had a prediction that once monitors settled around 1080p resolutions, desktop gaming would gradually get much cheaper again. We were in that resolution skyrocket for a while and games like Crisis were killing everyone that didn't have $2-3K to drop semi-regularly on a new system.

First, I need a new PC as I'm still on a now ancient platform with AGP. I want to get a bit more modern and speedy in operating systems and everything. Plus out HD home video won't play on my current machine.

Second, I'm sick of the whole laptop thing, it's a real negative in some ways especially family time and such. My wife gets on that thing in front of the television and it's like all communication shuts down (stupid HGTV house shopping and bull**** internet). I'm putting my foot down, not purely on her but as a family we aren't going this way.

Laptops enable people to wrap themselves in the internet anywhere and just vegetate into oblivion. I spend enough time on computers at work (travel a ton with a laptop) and using them as necessary but I'm really trying to wean myself off them when a lot of it is time waste. Phones are equally as bad but inconvenient for hours at a time.

Screw that - life is too short. We do a family PC (with excellent gaming capability) and anyone who wants to use it sits at a desk. I have a work laptop and will probably grab an iPad but I really want to limit the use of that. My wife's laptop is having issues - I'm not inclined to fix it at this point, I'd prefer the experience be a bit inconvenient. I really think this internet immersion anywhere is having a negative impact on people and culture, even worse than TV. I'm about done with it hence its a lot easier to rationalize a nice new desktop build (old machine will be a dedicated server which it pretty much is now anyway).

Plus, I've wanted to build a PC with my son since he was little and if PC gaming continues to decline this will probably be the last one I build up from scratch. If Battlefield 3 is anywhere like #2, it will be totally worthwhile.
post #56 of 130
Thread Starter 
Getting an iPad is only going to cause the Zombie like issues to get even worse. My woman hates PC's, yet I can't pull the iPad from her fingers.

But I'm on the other side of the fence. I like that she gets occupied by it as it gives me time to do something I need. I don't want to entertain someone 24/7.

..and if you build a new PC, and BF3 comes out...who's gonna be the vegetable then? At around that time, your going to want to pass her the iPad...trust me
post #57 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

My woman hates PC's, yet I can't pull the iPad from her fingers.

I can imagine she hates PC's because they're "complicated" or something along those lines.
Thats where Apple comes in and offers these expensive things that gives the majority of the population only what they want.
post #58 of 130
I'm trying to find out what is the cheapest computer I can get away with playing Battlefield 3 hopefully in 3d at it's highest settings on my new Panny VT30 3dtv. Hopefully it's not too too much. I'm usually a console gamer, but after I saw the jaw-dropping previews to BF3 I new that's what I wanted. Also will I be able to use my 360 controller with it. Thanks guys.
post #59 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post

I'm trying to find out what is the cheapest computer I can get away with playing Battlefield 3 hopefully in 3d at it's highest settings on my new Panny VT30 3dtv. Hopefully it's not too too much.

We'll know for sure when it comes out. But, I would imagine that you'll need a powerful GPU configuration for a smooth frame-rate at max settings in 3D. Don't be surprised if you would need something like 2 GTX 560Ti cards.

As for the CPU, the best buy is an Intel 2500K.
post #60 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post

I'm trying to find out what is the cheapest computer I can get away with playing Battlefield 3 hopefully in 3d at it's highest settings on my new Panny VT30 3dtv. Hopefully it's not too too much. I'm usually a console gamer, but after I saw the jaw-dropping previews to BF3 I new that's what I wanted. Also will I be able to use my 360 controller with it. Thanks guys.

Based on what I have seen, $ 1200.00 - $ 1500.00 should do nicely. You are kidding about the controller right?
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