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NAS & Content Streamer Buying Decision!

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
After weeks of research and of course, 50,000 PMs to the master, dbone1026, I finally ventured into the foray that is network storage and content streamers.

This thread is so that others may benefit from what I've learned. You may also find my original thread useful "Which NAS should I buy, what should I use to back it up"

First, the NAS I purchased was a Western Digital MyBookLive, 3TB. It is reviewed here for you to see.

1.) I know there is a lot of discussion about what NAS to get. Honestly, it was a tough decision. It seems that a huge consideration is whether you are going to have some data protection by running a raid configuration (presumably RAID 1 or RAID 5)

(Click here to understand RAID). If you don't run a RAID configuration you always have the possibility of (A) losing your data via hard disk failure or (B) having to re-rip your entire video library if that's all your using your NAS for. But if you do decide to go with a RAID configuration, you've just doubled your expenditure on hard drives. Most small NAS that you can buy on a limited budget only come with two bays. That means you could wind up paying $350 to $500 for 1TB to 3TB of total storage space. A lot more than that if you want to touch 4TB and up. Ouch. So I decided, I'd risk it and go with a single drive solution allowing 3TB. I'll backup personal pics, etc. via Crashplan and just re-rip my library if necessary. I got my 3TB unit for much less than $350. Plus, IMHO, 6 and 8TB solutions should come down in price over the next couple years allowing me a clearer upgrade path.

2.) If you think 1 or 2TB is going to cut it, think again. I've been ripping BR ISOs and they range from 13GB to almost 50GB in some cases.

Kingdom of Heaven was about 42GB for the clown_Bd stripped down version. 1TB will go quick.

3.) Check out reviews of your NAS on smallbuilder.net. They have charts showing the various speeds as well as the features of each unit. It's an excellent way to see if the inexpensive Synology unit is going to be as efficient as say a Buffalo (not saying it isn't, just saying the site will give you the information...so don't flame my thread).

For a content streamer, I chose to go with 2 Dune HD Smart B1s. For me, the only real choices were one of the Dune units or the Boxee. The Popcorn just didn't have me from the start. The Boxee, unfortunately, was nearly the same price as the Dune Smart B1 because I would have had to add an extra IR USB adapter because my components are all hidden in an armoire. The Dune, IMHO, is superior to the Boxee if you are matching dollar for dollar.

1.) Reviews - CNET has some reviews as does some other sites. But again, dbone's blog is the place to go:

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/. He has pictures of the various players and in depth reviews that most other places can't match. He also uses these players himself on a regular basis (or so I gather based on reading his numerous articles and PMing him).
post #2 of 17
You exaggerate, we have probably only hit 47,000 PMs to date

Overall, how has the experience gone for you (aside from the learning curve which I am sure can seem overwhelming at times)?
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
My experience overall has been absolutely incredible. I'm still amazed by the results. Fortunately, I haven't been overwhelmed at all. I think part of that has to do with how much research and learning I did ahead of time. The other part was your help, most especially your reviews and guides.

I do think it can be rather overwhelming, however, if one just jumped into it without doing the amount of research I did. The hardware was actually the simple part, although I did not have to deal with a RAID setup. The amount of software I had to install made me nervous though. Fortunately, some it I've used before to rip DVDs for my Iphone (for my daughters to watch when we fly someplace) and to make bootable flash ISOs (for BIOS flashing). All together, I've installed Handbrake, PowerDVD Ultra, AnyDVD HD, IMGBRN, Clown_BD, DIVX codecs (to play MKVs on my computer), Slysoft Virtual drive (to mount ISOs for playing in PowerDVD), Western Digital software for setting up the NAS, Zappiti (video jukebox for Dune). All that software makes me nervious especially when its freeware. But, no problems so far.

Once you've got it up and running though...WOW. WOW. My wife will love not having to find and change DVDs for my kids. We'll finally be able to figure out what box sets of old shows we have (Kung Fu, Emergency, Bonanza, Star Trek and the like). And I wont have stacks of movies everywhere still waiting for me to organize in a book someplace. I also have to say that playing them on the Media player is faster than playing on the BD player, especially when you strip out all the extras.

The one thing that I am trying to sort out are the best storage structure for my movies on my NAS (basically how many layers of file folders to have) and making advanced changes to Zappiti (changing icons on the menu screen, etc.) I've found almost no support for that at all.

I'll also say that some of your guides could use an update note. For example, Zappiti fixed "scrap" to "scrape." But thanks again for all your help.
post #4 of 17
Ok. I'm jealous you have the Emergency box set.

oh- enjoy the new gadgets! What is your plan when you blow past the 3TB size?


btw, nice shortcut to dbone's profile!
post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

My experience overall has been absolutely incredible. I'm still amazed by the results. Fortunately, I haven't been overwhelmed at all. I think part of that has to do with how much research and learning I did ahead of time. The other part was your help, most especially your reviews and guides.

I do think it can be rather overwhelming, however, if one just jumped into it without doing the amount of research I did. The hardware was actually the simple part, although I did not have to deal with a RAID setup. The amount of software I had to install made me nervous though. Fortunately, some it I've used before to rip DVDs for my Iphone (for my daughters to watch when we fly someplace) and to make bootable flash ISOs (for BIOS flashing). All together, I've installed Handbrake, PowerDVD Ultra, AnyDVD HD, IMGBRN, Clown_BD, DIVX codecs (to play MKVs on my computer), Slysoft Virtual drive (to mount ISOs for playing in PowerDVD), Western Digital software for setting up the NAS, Zappiti (video jukebox for Dune). All that software makes me nervious especially when its freeware. But, no problems so far.

Once you've got it up and running though...WOW. WOW. My wife will love not having to find and change DVDs for my kids. We'll finally be able to figure out what box sets of old shows we have (Kung Fu, Emergency, Bonanza, Star Trek and the like). And I wont have stacks of movies everywhere still waiting for me to organize in a book someplace. I also have to say that playing them on the Media player is faster than playing on the BD player, especially when you strip out all the extras.

The one thing that I am trying to sort out are the best storage structure for my movies on my NAS (basically how many layers of file folders to have) and making advanced changes to Zappiti (changing icons on the menu screen, etc.) I've found almost no support for that at all.

I'll also say that some of your guides could use an update note. For example, Zappiti fixed "scrap" to "scrape." But thanks again for all your help.

Yeah, the Wife/Kid factor is huge. That was one of the main reasons why I got started in all of this, was to make sure my kids never damaged a disc (can't damage if you don't use!) and my wife has easy access to all our media. We are about 99% diskless (including the kids Wii which all games are on an attached USB drive).

As far as guide updates, it is definitely a challenge. I usually try to make changes where necessary and if something in particular changes, but inevitably some things will fall through the cracks.
post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbryanr View Post

Ok. I'm jealous you have the Emergency box set.

oh- enjoy the new gadgets! What is your plan when you blow past the 3TB size?


btw, nice shortcut to dbone's profile!

LOL, I may have to go into the witness protection program!
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
You'll be answering PMs all day everyday now!
post #8 of 17
Go with RAID5, it doesn't cost much more than no raid.
You'll be glad you did.

In my NAS, a Qnap TS-419, I have 4 x 2TB HDs in a raid5 configuration. Gives about 6TB of storage and allows for a single disk to fail. Once you replace that bad disk, it'll automatically rebuild. It'll also give you options to auto back up it all or sections to an external eSata or USB drive.

You can get open box systems pretty cheap on newegg. Get a 4 disk unit, even if you only put two HDs in to start, it'll be expandable.
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
A 4 Bay solution runs about $400. IF you went with the least expensive 1TB drives on Newegg, you'd run another $200 for 4x1TB drives. You'll run about $320 for 4x2TB drives. So with that Raid 5 solution you're now running at around $600 for roughly 2-3TB of space or $720 for 6TB as you suggested. And I'd suggest that for a better system with more thoroughput, you'll spend another $200.

So while I really got interested in a Raid 5 setup, it was a bit more than I wanted to invest into something to start out with. I rather like my solution right now, because as I said, I think I can double my storage capacity in a year or two for the same money I'll pay for 6TB today. Plus, by then I'll have a better understanding of what I'm doing and what my network needs are.

I don't want anybody to get discouraged to try a RAID arrangement, but I also don't want people to be afraid to start out with something smaller and simpler.
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

You'll be answering PMs all day everyday now!

He can move to Canada where there are low caps on internet usage

philip
post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

I don't want anybody to get discouraged to try a RAID arrangement, but I also don't want people to be afraid to start out with something smaller and simpler.

It seems to me that RAID is for a very select few. It is not suitable for backup in any case which is probably more important.

philip
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinj View Post

Go with RAID5, it doesn't cost much more than no raid.
You'll be glad you did.

In my NAS, a Qnap TS-419, I have 4 x 2TB HDs in a raid5 configuration. Gives about 6TB of storage and allows for a single disk to fail. Once you replace that bad disk, it'll automatically rebuild. It'll also give you options to auto back up it all or sections to an external eSata or USB drive.

You can get open box systems pretty cheap on newegg. Get a 4 disk unit, even if you only put two HDs in to start, it'll be expandable.

I haven't messed much with RAID of late, does RAID 5 have the same limitation where you can only use the HDD space equivalent of the smallest drive in your array? So for example if you have 3 x 1TB drives and 1 x 2TB drive, for the 2TB drive you are only able to use 1TB of it? I don't know if QNAP has a workaround for this, but one of the things I like about WHS is I can pop in any size drive I want which is particularly useful since when I first started with WHS I was using 500GB drive, but over time I have slowly migrated to 2TB drives.
post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

I haven't messed much with RAID of late, does RAID 5 have the same limitation where you can only use the HDD space equivalent of the smallest drive in your array? So for example if you have 3 x 1TB drives and 1 x 2TB drive, for the 2TB drive you are only able to use 1TB of it? I don't know if QNAP has a workaround for this, but one of the things I like about WHS is I can pop in any size drive I want which is particularly useful since when I first started with WHS I was using 500GB drive, but over time I have slowly migrated to 2TB drives.

Most raid configurations that offer data protection use calculations based on the smallest drive. Raid 5 is no different. The capacity of a RAID 5 array is the size of the smallest drive multiplied by one less than the number of drives in the array. In other words if you have three drives you get 2 times the smallest drive (or 2/3). In your example, you'd get 3TB of size (4x1TB -1TB=3TB). That is one of the problems of RAID, but remember you are getting data protection if one of the drives fails. If one of the drives fail in Raid 5, you simply replace it and keep going.
post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

It seems to me that RAID is for a very select few. It is not suitable for backup in any case which is probably more important.

philip

Right, it's not suitable for a backup. The only thing Raid gives you is protection from failure of a single hard-drive.
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

Most raid configurations that offer data protection use calculations based on the smallest drive. Raid 5 is no different. The capacity of a RAID 5 array is the size of the smallest drive multiplied by one less than the number of drives in the array. In other words if you have three drives you get 2 times the smallest drive (or 2/3). In your example, you'd get 3TB of size (4x1TB -1TB=3TB). That is one of the problems of RAID, but remember you are getting data protection if one of the drives fails. If one of the drives fail in Raid 5, you simply replace it and keep going.

Same with WHS, I get data protection if a drive fails. The trade off is less efficiency in HDD space since duplication is essentially RAID 1, but I at least know I can use any size drive I want and have my server grow as my needs grow. There will always be some sort of tradeoff though, so each persons needs will vary
post #16 of 17
Thread Starter 
Yes. Raid data protection usually costs quite a bit more though. I mean at best you have to buy 4 drives to only use three. In other RAID you only get 1/2. Money becomes an issue quickly.
post #17 of 17
I have been in the hobby for many years now and this is my evolution

1. Started in 2001 with the Roku HD1000 Photobridge streamers (first HD streamer product made) and used a windows pc along with an Infrant (now NetGear) x6 4 bay NAS (raid 5)

2. Replace the hard drives in the x6 with bigger ones, sold the smaller ones and added a TViX 6500 streamer (the TViX box never was very good)

3. Sold the x6 4 bay and purchased a ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer 6 bay NAS with raid 5 and iscsi (excellent unit)

4. Purchased a NetGear EVA9150 streamer (lousy unit).

5. Purchased a Popcorn Hour c-200 (returned it shortly after... didn't do anything correctly)

6. In 2009 Purchased a Dune 3 Prime and Dune 3 Base

7. Created a Media Server pc with windows 7, NFS server software 2 SanDigital 8-bay disk towers and a rocketraid 2314 e-sata controller. Raid 5 with a hot standby. Subscribed to Crashplan for backup

So today I have a media server that acts as a NAS, ripping station, metadata gathering station and backup server. All of my videos are stored on this device. My ReadyNAS stores my photos, audio, and personal documents. It is also iscsi attached to the media server.

I use my movies for metadata and video database, musicnizer for audio metadata and collection, photoshop elements for photo album metadata, calibre for ebooks and the mymovies ipad app for navigation and remote control.

It is hard to believe but my original Rokulabs HD1000s still do the best job for photos and had done gapless audio since day 1. Then again, it was the only streamer with an ATI chip instead of Sigma or Realtek.
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