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Ripping Blu-Rays II - Page 59

post #1741 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

I believe you can also use DVDFab to create 3D mkvs (I believe these are encoded though and not lossless, possibly someone could confirm?)

Not sure about DVDFab, but MakeMKV can do lossless 3D MVC MKV rips. I don't know which players that are capable of playing them, though. I was hoping my Dune HD Base 3 could play it back in 2D, but no such luck. I get sound, but no picture.
post #1742 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by trondmm View Post

Not sure about DVDFab, but MakeMKV can do lossless 3D MVC MKV rips. I don't know which players that are capable of playing them, though. I was hoping my Dune HD Base 3 could play it back in 2D, but no such luck. I get sound, but no picture.

The Dunes dont support full 3D, so no reason to think it would be able to handle a 3D mkv. Right now the only way tou can play back a 3D Blu ray on the Dune via 2D is if the disc has both the 3D and 2D image on it (some do).

I will give MakeMKV a try, see if it works with my 3D players (here is the Mede8er which I just reviewed):

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2012/10/24/review-mede8er-med1000x3d/
post #1743 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

The Dunes dont support full 3D, so no reason to think it would be able to handle a 3D mkv.

Well, the MVC extension to h.264 should be designed so that 2D players would ignore the 3D extension. Much like DTS Core and DTS HD MA. A player that doesn't understand DTS HD MA will just ignore the HD extension and play the core track.
post #1744 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by trondmm View Post

Well, the MVC extension to h.264 should be designed so that 2D players would ignore the 3D extension. Much like DTS Core and DTS HD MA. A player that doesn't understand DTS HD MA will just ignore the HD extension and play the core track.

Yeah, something seems off. I tried a test mkv from MakeMKV and same as you, audio but no video on the Dune. So I have some weird results (using The Avengers Blu-ray 3D):

- Dune - 3d mkv via MakeMKV gets audio but no video
- Dune - 3d Blu Ray ISO, does not play in 2D in either full or BD Lite mode

PCH A-300 - 3d mkv via MakeMKV gets audio but no video
PCH A-300 - 3d Blu ray ISO, plays in 2D

Mede8er X3D - 3d mkv via MakeMKV, plays in standard 2D (I need to actually select the setting to make it 3D, but is it actually using the MVC portion of the mkv or is the player doing its own simulation?_
Mede8er X3D - 3d Blu Ray ISO, plays fine in both 3D and 2D mode

So what does this all mean, no f'n clue lol:D
post #1745 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

Slysoft has said repeatedly that AnyDVD HD will not be the vehicle to defeat Cinavia. It's working on a program called Slyce which may have a workaround. I say whatever. What use is AnyDVD HD if it can't break Cinavia? None.
At least they are being honest. DVD Fab has been silent on their efforts, if any, for 2 yr and has tried to sweep it under the rug. I don't think they have any more of a clue how to remove Cinavia than Slysoft has. But just because it can't defeat Cinavia doesn't mean it is useless. I don't know of any media players that have Cinavia and unless the player seeks a BDA license, there is no reason to expect that they would implement it. Cinavia will hurt the DVD Fab disk pirates who want to burn "backups' of BD's because all the players will have it. It will also hurt all the people who buy a BD player and want to use it as an all-in-one media streamer. This could have an interesting side-effect of increasing sales of traditional media players that will play anything.
post #1746 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

At least they are being honest. DVD Fab has been silent on their efforts, if any, for 2 yr and has tried to sweep it under the rug. I don't think they have any more of a clue how to remove Cinavia than Slysoft has. But just because it can't defeat Cinavia doesn't mean it is useless. I don't know of any media players that have Cinavia and unless the player seeks a BDA license, there is no reason to expect that they would implement it. Cinavia will hurt the DVD Fab disk pirates who want to burn "backups' of BD's because all the players will have it. It will also hurt all the people who buy a BD player and want to use it as an all-in-one media streamer. This could have an interesting side-effect of increasing sales of traditional media players that will play anything.

What will be interesting, DVDFab has their own BD software player which I believe they advertise has having Full BD access. I am not sure if they are doing this without a BDA license or what???
post #1747 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

What will be interesting, DVDFab has their own BD software player which I believe they advertise has having Full BD access. I am not sure if they are doing this without a BDA license or what???
Geeze, that's right; I never thought about that. I can't say that I would honestly think that a chinese company that writes and markets DMCA-illegal software to crack copy-protections would give even a moments thought to the need for a BDA license. I'll have to take a close look at the description of that player.
post #1748 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I'll have to take a close look at the description of that player.
Just did. This is a very interesting read -- DVD Fab Media player. I encourage people to give it a look.

This will play BluRay/DVD disks, .iso files and folder structures with full menu support. To play commercial disks you would at first think they would need a BDA license for the encryption codes -- but no -- they just include their DVD Fab decryption modules in the player and crack the disk to play it.
Quote:
In-time decryption to newly released movies

Your current media player does not play the movie released last week? Don't worry, DVDFab Media Player can do this. As soon as you insert the protected disc into optical drive, DVDFab Media Player will access it and then connect its server to break the protection code in less than a minute. Keep in mind, to achieve this, you have to allow the software player to access the internet.
This will be a Cinavia-free PC player forever.

The price is steep. They want $50 for the first year and a yearly $10 license fee. But that is only if you want to play commercial disks. If you don't pay, it reverts to the "free" version which will play BD.iso and DVD.iso. That's fine with me.

At the bottom of the page is this interesting note:
Quote:
NOTE:DVDFab Media Player is powered by XBMC
The interface really looks pretty. I think I may give this a try, just because.
Edited by Kelson - 10/27/12 at 2:53pm
post #1749 of 5693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
At least they are being honest. DVD Fab has been silent on their efforts, if any, for 2 yr and has tried to sweep it under the rug. I don't think they have any more of a clue how to remove Cinavia than Slysoft has

Slysoft has a post in their forum that discusses the problems with defeating Cinavia, which is pretty funny because it is as you say: they don't have a clue how to detect it much less defeat it. But I think part of the problem is the lack of Cinavia supported players available from which they can reverse engineer. I did find a recent a recent release by a company that claims a "future proof" solution to Cinavia. BTW, I think DVDFab had a Cinavia module (may still) but my understanding is that the maker of Cinavia made an upgrade that made the module useless. I believe the problem, as I understand it, is detection of the audio watermark and then the problem with the watermark itself.
Quote:
But just because it can't defeat Cinavia doesn't mean it is useless.


Ok, that was a big of an exxageration. The point is merely that if most BDs have Cinavia and most players support Cinavia, then ripping with AnyDVD HD wont accomplish much.

Quote:
I don't know of any media players that have Cinavia and unless the player seeks a BDA license, there is no reason to expect that they would implement it.

Not yet, but your statement goes against the expectation of many others. It certainly would preclude any combo units (media/BD ROM) says Damien who wrote this in his article on Cinavia:

"My guess this is the last you will see of these hybrid players and the only type of player that will allow you to play back your unprotected content and still have access to a Blu-ray ROM drive will be an HTPC."


And he is not alone. AnandTech also wrote an article, Cinavia DRM: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Blu-ray’s Self-Destruction:

"The next generation version of these players may be forced to implement Cinavia support. Users with legitimate backups wanting the full Blu-ray experience and using such players will end up being affected."


I'm inclined to agree with Damien in the sense that Dune will cease to exist if it has to have Cinavia support. If you can't play media files, what's the point? And just in case you didn't know, the MPAA and similar associations don't like these media players at all, as is evidenced by the problems that Kaleidescape has undergone.

Quote:
Cinavia will hurt the DVD Fab disk pirates who want to burn "backups' of BD's because all the players will have it. It will also hurt all the people who buy a BD player and want to use it as an all-in-one media streamer.


It will certainly thwart a few pirates. I'd be thrilled if it stopped my pet peeve, which is people who pay $1.50 at Redbox then rip the movie to their hard-drive. But as is typically the case, the pirates don't skip a beat and those of us who obey the law more closely (excepting the process of defeating the DRM, of course) will be forced to make tough choices. Stop buying or resort to piracy. This was the case with music for a while. I know...I stopped buying. I refuse to steal so I just did without. I still find myself irritated that virtually everyone of my friends simply downloads the music from YouTube for free. And these are people who don't know anything about computers and certainly wouldn't have used P2P. Good thing RIAA shutdown Napster to keep people from having thousands of illegally obtained music files, eh?

Quote:
This could have an interesting side-effect of increasing sales of traditional media players that will play anything.


Maybe. I think it pushes just more people to stolen goods and to streaming services. BTW, I think the latter is inevitable anyways.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Just did. This is a very interesting read -- DVD Fab Media player. I encourage people to give it a look.
This will play BluRay/DVD disks, .iso files and folder structures with full menu support. To play commercial disks you would at first think they would need a BDA license for the encryption codes -- but no -- they just include their DVD Fab decryption modules in the player and crack the disk to play it. This will be a Cinavia-free PC player forever.
The price is steep. They want $50 for the first year and a yearly $10 license fee. But that is only if you want to play commercial disks. If you don't pay, it reverts to the "free" version which will play BD.iso and DVD.iso. That's fine with me.
At the bottom of the page is this interesting note:
The interface really looks pretty. I think I may give this a try, just because.


It is my impression that DVDfab has had a difficult time with Cinavia. They introduced a module to DVDFAB that was supposed to defeat Cinavia only to have the Cinavia company update the code to make the module useless.

I'm curious to see if the AACS moves against DVDFAB like they have with Slysoft. Of course, things have a tendency to get lost in small countries. But being in China makes such charges more difficult, although the U.S. can still implement financial restrictions making the purchase of DVDFAB more difficult.

Anyways, the next couple years will be interesting. I'm not the only one who things the studios are shooting themselves in the foot.
Edited by agogley - 10/27/12 at 10:12pm
post #1750 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

BTW, I think DVDFab had a Cinavia module (may still) but my understanding is that the maker of Cinavia made an upgrade that made the module useless. I believe the problem, as I understand it, is detection of the audio watermark and then the problem with the watermark itself. . . .

. . . It is my impression that DVDfab has had a difficult time with Cinavia. They introduced a module to DVDFAB that was supposed to defeat Cinavia only to have the Cinavia company update the code to make the module useless.
DVDFab actually had nothing of consequence and I think that was obvious to all but unspoken. You really can't post anything negative on the DVD Fab forum because the moderators there aggressively control the post content with an iron fist and edit or delete any posts that do not conform to the party line.

Their so-called "solution" for Cinavia was narrowly focused and simply exploited a bug in the PS3 firmware that allowed them to create a protected backup that fooled the PS3 into thinking it was a trusted source -- the Cinavia watermark was still there. These protected backups could, of course, only be played on the PS3 -- no other players can play them. It was not a surprise to anyone that as soon as Sony learned of it they would act to closed the bug -- which they did with firmware 4.1. DVD Fab doesn't have a clue how to remove Cinavia, along with everyone else -- their agents standard response now to Cinavia questions is either to not upgrade your PS3 firmware or buy a player that doesn't have Cinavia support.

As to your other points, I go back to my original statement that I believe still holds: unless a player seeks a BDA license, there is no reason to expect that they would implement Cinavia. You don't need a BDA license to play unprotected .m2ts or .mkv files. Players like the WD Live play unprotected content -- they don't discriminate where that unprotected content came from. If your player only plays unprotected content it doesn't need a BDA license and so they have no pressure to include Cinavia. Does that mean you probably won't see a media player that also can play commercial disks -- I would say so. Does that mean the imminent death of media players for unprotected content -- I would say not.

There is not lack of players with Cinavia support from which to reverse engineer. But hardware players were never a factor, they have been waiting for software players that they could disassemble. But all these players will give them is the algorithm for detecting Cinavia. There is nothing with Cinavia to decrypt, it is just a "flag" that tells the player to determine if this is a trusted source and not play it if it isn't.
post #1751 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

DVDFab actually had nothing of consequence and I think that was obvious to all but unspoken. You really can't post anything negative on the DVD Fab forum because the moderators there aggressively control the post content with an iron fist and edit or delete any posts that do not conform to the party line.
Their so-called "solution" for Cinavia was narrowly focused and simply exploited a bug in the PS3 firmware that allowed them to create a protected backup that fooled the PS3 into thinking it was a trusted source -- the Cinavia watermark was still there. These protected backups could, of course, only be played on the PS3 -- no other players can play them. It was not a surprise to anyone that as soon as Sony learned of it they would act to closed the bug -- which they did with firmware 4.1. DVD Fab doesn't have a clue how to remove Cinavia, along with everyone else -- their agents standard response now to Cinavia questions is either to not upgrade your PS3 firmware or buy a player that doesn't have Cinavia support.
As to your other points, I go back to my original statement that I believe still holds: unless a player seeks a BDA license, there is no reason to expect that they would implement Cinavia. You don't need a BDA license to play unprotected .m2ts or .mkv files. Players like the WD Live play unprotected content -- they don't discriminate where that unprotected content came from. If your player only plays unprotected content it doesn't need a BDA license and so they have no pressure to include Cinavia. Does that mean you probably won't see a media player that also can play commercial disks -- I would say so. Does that mean the imminent death of media players for unprotected content -- I would say not.
There is not lack of players with Cinavia support from which to reverse engineer. But hardware players were never a factor, they have been waiting for software players that they could disassemble. But all these players will give them is the algorithm for detecting Cinavia. There is nothing with Cinavia to decrypt, it is just a "flag" that tells the player to determine if this is a trusted source and not play it if it isn't.

^ Spot on. The DVDFab "hack" was just a workaround to trick the PS3, not an actual fix for Cinavia.

I personally think Cinavia is way overblown. It only affects people who want to play back their Blu rays with full BDLive (including full menus) or people who are trying to use commercial blu ray players as streamers (i.e. PS3). The solution is very easy, give up these two options, seems like a no brainer if you ask me. If you have an HTPC use software like XBMC or MPC HC instead of the commercial software (PowerDVD, TMT). For media players, we will probably never see the hybrid media players again but there are plenty of options.
post #1752 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

I personally think Cinavia is way overblown. It only affects people who want to play back their Blu rays with full BDLive (including full menus) or people who are trying to use commercial blu ray players as streamers (i.e. PS3). The solution is very easy, give up these two options, seems like a no brainer if you ask me. If you have an HTPC use software like XBMC or MPC HC instead of the commercial software (PowerDVD, TMT). For media players, we will probably never see the hybrid media players again but there are plenty of options.

I partially agree. Cinavia isn't really a problem right now. My resistance against Cinavia has always been the destructive potential it carries.

I've always seen the current state of Cinavia as a test. Hollywood is waiting to see if anyone is able to crack Cinavia. So far nobody has been able to make a dent. Nobody's even been able to detect it. The next logical step would be to use Cinavia on all soundtracks on all movies. Finally, they'll push for legislation that makes it illegal to sell devices that doesn't support Cinavia.

Obviously this won't happen overnight, but they are now pretty confident that they're sitting on an unbreakable and unremovable watermark technology. There's no doubt in my mind that they'll do everything they can to take maximum advantage of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 
If you have an HTPC use software like XBMC or MPC HC instead of the commercial software (PowerDVD, TMT). For media players, we will probably never see the hybrid media players again but there are plenty of options.

What if all soundcards implements Cinavia? To bypass the Cinavia on the soundcard, you'll need to use Secure Audio Path, and the only way you can do this, is to get an expensive license, where one of the requirements is that your software implements Cinavia?

(Ironically, this last scenario is probably our best chance to defeat Cinavia. Someone, somewhere, is bound to slip up and release a program that reveals the Cinavia detection routine.)
post #1753 of 5693
Thread Starter 
Kelson, I hope you are right. I really do. I'm a bit annoyed with the studios and their interpretation of copyrights and property rights. Actually, I find myself annoyed with photographers who think they own a photo of my kids in perpetuity so that I may not scan a photo I buy.

I'm a bit more pessimistic than you, however. The studios are very aggressive in forcing these things on everybody.....although..... I do agree with Anandtech that if Cinavia is everything the studios hope, it will just quicken their self destruction.
post #1754 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

This is a good suggestion and I suspect we'll see this topic come up frequently starting mid to late 2013. I'll consult with Damien because I just don't have that much experience with ripping and using 3D movies (since the Dune Smart doesn't really handle them).
Big bad Cinavia is coming to town. One reason I refuse to by Battle Los Angeles even though I was a big fan of the movie. Anyuways, HTPC users will initially be the hardest hit. They are only one software update away from not being able to play Cinavia protected movies. They can delay updates, of course, at least for a while. After a while though, it gets harder to avoid those updates. There are some workarounds like using VLC, but none of that is what any of us wants. But I can't believe Dune, Popcorn, and some of the other media makers are just going to implement it (since it would make their products useless). Kaleidescape is already in a big battle over DRM and so far it's losing. Slysoft has said repeatedly that AnyDVD HD will not be the vehicle to defeat Cinavia. It's working on a program called Slyce which may have a workaround. I say whatever. What use is AnyDVD HD if it can't break Cinavia? None.
The movie studios are trying to put themselves out of business. I buy way more movies than I would otherwise precisely because of my NAS and media player. Otherwise, I'd have less than 1/4 of the movies I have now. Virtually the only company that would make money from me is Disney (because of the kids). I can tell you right now, that if I can't rip it, I'm not buying it. Music is going away from DRM and video is doubling down. Speaking of music, I find it amusing that they worked so hard to shut down napster and now it's easier to get songs off YouTube.

HEAR, HEAR!

Movie Studio version of underwear gnomes plans for success.

1. Shoot Foot
2. Shoot it again.
3. rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif
post #1755 of 5693
Reality check here, folks. Does anybody really think that the relatively few of us with media servers boycotting titles with Cinevia will put so much as a ripple in the revenue stream for the content owners?

Jeff
post #1756 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Reality check here, folks. Does anybody really think that the relatively few of us with media servers boycotting titles with Cinevia will put so much as a ripple in the revenue stream for the content owners?
Jeff
Point taken. By the same token, we here with media players are a small blip on their radar compared to the disk pirates that Cinavia is pointed at.
post #1757 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Point taken. By the same token, we here with media players are a small blip on their radar compared to the disk pirates that Cinavia is pointed at.
Yes, and I'd guess that we are convenient splash damage nonetheless.
post #1758 of 5693
Hey guys,
I was wondering if you could tell me the best way to join the 2 Titanic 3D Blu-ray discs when ripping them for my media player? I have DVDFAB and CLOWNBD available to use. I really appreciate the help!
Edited by socwrkr - 11/2/12 at 8:52pm
post #1759 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by socwrkr View Post

Hey guys,
I was wondering if you could tell me the best way to join the 2 Titanic Blu-ray discs when ripping them for my media player? I have DVDFAB and CLOWNBD available to use. I really appreciate the help!

Maybe similar to what I did for LOTR:

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2011/07/06/when-ripping-becomes-personal/
post #1760 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by socwrkr View Post

Hey guys,
I was wondering if you could tell me the best way to join the 2 Titanic Blu-ray discs when ripping them for my media player? I have DVDFAB and CLOWNBD available to use. I really appreciate the help!

The movie is all on one disc. What do you need to combine?
post #1761 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post

The movie is all on one disc. What do you need to combine?

I think only the 3D is on 2 separate discs, the 2D is one disc., so not sure if he has this mixed up?
post #1762 of 5693
yup the 3D discs
post #1763 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by socwrkr View Post

yup the 3D discs

Cant be done, to my knowledge there are no tools that will work for 3D similar to 2D for merging together. Maybe you could try ripping each disc with MakeMKV, and then merge the mkvs together with mkvmerge (of course you then need a player that will handle full 3D mkvs)
post #1764 of 5693
Why not keep the files separate? Then it will still be like the Disc experience only you don't need to get up to change the discs.
post #1765 of 5693
True, I was just wondering if it was possible
post #1766 of 5693
OK, I find myself needing to renew my background decrypting tool. Had been using AnyDVD HD - is that still the one I want to use? Would the free DVDFab HD Decrypter do it?

Thanks,
Jeff
post #1767 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

OK, I find myself needing to renew my background decrypting tool. Had been using AnyDVD HD - is that still the one I want to use? Would the free DVDFab HD Decrypter do it?
Thanks,
Jeff

Did you already pay for AnyDVD since you had been using? If so no reason to switch

Not sure with the free DVDFab version how up to date the decryption keys are kept
post #1768 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Did you already pay for AnyDVD since you had been using? If so no reason to switch
Not sure with the free DVDFab version how up to date the decryption keys are kept

I did not pay for lifetime.
post #1769 of 5693
I run DVDFab with Wine on Linux, which perhaps hampers its operations, but I get quite a few titles that it can't do.

I keep AnyDVD on a Windows laptop as a backup and it has never failed.

-Bill
post #1770 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

I run DVDFab with Wine on Linux, which perhaps hampers its operations, but I get quite a few titles that it can't do.

-Bill

Would they be new titles?
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