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Ripping Blu-Rays II - Page 116

post #3451 of 5693
Quote:
Ask 20 people on this board how long it takes THEM to transcode a ~30 gig film. Oh that's right, you'd be hard pressed to find ten, never mind twenty people on these boards do it for their entire collections (hundreds or thousands of files). Still, I'm 100% positive that the ones that do are going to relay MUCH longer times...but they're (DotJun included) prolly all doing it wrong. Go figure.
My personal transcodes take between 10-30 hours depending on the source. One that only takes 8-12 hours looks pretty damned good though. You really should have a look yourself. There's plenty of great examples at doom9.

I will agree that if you are talking about the torrents then yes those mostly look like trash. Most people that spend the time to actually learn how to properly encode their movies don't go about posting them up for torrent sites.
post #3452 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

See what I mean? Now why did you have to characterize that as "ridiculous" with all that it implies about the claimant?

I'm always amused how people are willing to concede that the PQ of Internet-streamed HD movies, with their highly reduced bitrates, are inferior to watching the original BD transfer -- yet when they are the ones doing the bitrate reduction the result looks just as good.
There's a difference there though. Internet streamed movies are reduced with smallest bitrate as the focus while those that backup for personal use are going for pq as their focus.

I'm not trying to smash my movies to as small as I can get them. I am trying to reduce the size as much as I can while retaining "perceived" pq.
post #3453 of 5693
I see that we continue to talk about transcoding vs 1:1 (main movie) rips. I think we should leave at: DO WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY.
post #3454 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I see that we continue to talk about transcoding vs 1:1 (main movie) rips. I think we should leave at: DO WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY.

This is genuinely the most sensible and agreeable post I've seen, on this forum. biggrin.gif
post #3455 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric View Post

Thanks for all the info!

For all my testing I used The Hobbit on Blu-Ray.

I went ahead and just tried DVDFab since it has a free trial, though I was less than please with the results.

With my initial testing I used CUDA, which I eventually found to provide a less quality video. After running in software mode with 1-pass and high quality, I found that CUDA hadn't even been saving time. It actually took the same amount of time using software and provided a better quality video, however I still wasn't happy with the results. Videos were pixelated, especially in dark scenes being the worst (grey pixelation in areas that should be much darker compared to the original source).

After, I ran many tests with handbrake, using various suggested settings I was able to find around the forums and other sites. Ultimately, I still was not too pleased with the results.

My goal was to take some 1080p Blu-Ray movies and convert them to 720p (4-6gb) for ones that I am not too concerned about quality and retain 1080p (7-10GB) for movies I am picky over. I tried both 720p and 1080p conversions but the results were similar to DVDFab, although not as bad.

Last night, I just let a final attempt run with Handbrake. I setup as follows:

High Profile
Mkv Container

Anamorphic: Strict
Cropping: Automatic
Detelecine: Default
Decomb: Default
Deinterlace: Off
Denoise: Off
Deblock: Off
Grayscale: Unchecked

Video Codec: H.264
Framerate: Same as source with variable ticked
Constant Quality 18 RF
Use Advanced Tab instead: Unchecked
x264 Preset: Medium
x264 Tune: None
Fast Decode: Unchecked
H.264 Profile: High
H.264 Level: 4.1

Audio Track Source: DTS-HD MA
Codec: Auto Passthru

No subtitles

Chapter Markets created


The result was an almost 11GB file with quality that doesn't even match many other 720p files I have seen, let alone 1080p. My biggest grip is just the pixelation, I am not sure what I am doing wrong at this point.

Any advice?

Thanks!
I don't use handbrake at all so I'm not able to give you full help on this, but I do see from your settings you aren't downsizing to 720.

Also try it with these options: crf 19, preset slow, tuning film.

For 99% of people those params will work out well enough. You shouldn't be getting any pixelation. Can you copy/paste the x264 command line?
post #3456 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric View Post

You even left even the x264 preset at medium??

I just tried again moving it to very slow at q 22 and the picture was much better, I might move to 20 now and compare.
Your original looked bad because you used Cuba. Gpu encoding is still not very good.
post #3457 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

Using the Very Slow setting will often allow you to use a higher quality setting while retaining a smaller file size. Doesn't work with every video though. Some videos just blow up around 16-15 RF and end up being double the size of the source.
The reason for this IMO is grain. A movie with huge amounts of grain is not going to compress well at all. I am also clumping noise in with this.
post #3458 of 5693
Oh man I was late to the party. Apologies everyone lol I just started at the last spot I read from and worked my way forward. I didn't know there was a cease and... Anyway, my bad, let's all get back to helping those in need smile.gif
post #3459 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Oh man I was late to the party. Apologies everyone lol I just started at the last spot I read from and worked my way forward. I didn't know there was a cease and... Anyway, my bad, let's all get back to helping those in need smile.gif

Talking about it is OK. It's when people make personal comments or comments that call into question something about those who do (or to be balanced, do not) reduce file size by compression/re-endoding/whatever. And *that* conversation goes downhill quickly. It's the downhill aspect that pushed me to snap. I'll read the posts about the subject and might even learn something, but otherwise I ignore them.

Jeff
post #3460 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Talking about it is OK. It's when people make personal comments or comments that call into question something about those who do (or to be balanced, do not) reduce file size by compression/re-endoding/whatever. And *that* conversation goes downhill quickly. It's the downhill aspect that pushed me to snap. I'll read the posts about the subject and might even learn something, but otherwise I ignore them.

Jeff
I agree with you 100%. I compress my vids and am willing to share what knowledge I have over this matter with anyone asking, but I just don't understand why my comments would get shot down when I do this, especially since I never make claims like "compressing your stuff is way better than not compressing your stuff you bunch of Neanderthal newbs" smile.gif
post #3461 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

I agree with you 100%. I compress my vids and am willing to share what knowledge I have over this matter with anyone asking, but I just don't understand why my comments would get shot down when I do this, especially since I never make claims like "compressing your stuff is way better than not compressing your stuff you bunch of Neanderthal newbs" smile.gif

While we are in dialog mode, some questions for you. smile.gif

Do you retain a "mother rip" in a 1:1 state, or only have the compressed version?

What are your circumstances that you would perform a process tha takes 10-30 hours per movie? I ask because I grouse about the 20-30 mins per movie it takes me to rip main movie, lossless audio and English subs (when needed).

Thanks,
Jeff
post #3462 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

While we are in dialog mode, some questions for you. smile.gif

Do you retain a "mother rip" in a 1:1 state, or only have the compressed version?

What are your circumstances that you would perform a process tha takes 10-30 hours per movie? I ask because I grouse about the 20-30 mins per movie it takes me to rip main movie, lossless audio and English subs (when needed).

Thanks,
Jeff
Yes, the mother rip would be the actual disc smile.gif I rip not because I don't own the disc. I do it because manipulating discs, especially when you have kids, is a pita. As I said before also, to myself, my encodes are every bit as good as the source. Maybe my eyes aren't as good as others' though biggrin.gif but I would love it if people actually tried my parameters for themselves instead of comparing what I do to some random torrented file.

Just so you know also, I only keep one audio file unless it is an anime or something in which case I keep both the native language and the English dubbed one. Regardless, I always choose the highest quality file. I do not compress the audio unless it is PCM which I then convert to flac.

The circumstance is always. Every movie and every TV episode is compressed to my parameters. I do understand that most people will think it crazy but really once I encode a movie, that's it, done and over. It isn't like I'm getting 20 new movies a week. The most daunting time was when I first started of course but that was years ago and I have long since caught up to where I'm only encoding new movies bought.

Anymore questions are welcome smile.gif
post #3463 of 5693
Thanks. Was your original motivation to compress because of storage space?

So far, I always have owned the movie. I rip to get the movies onto a media server for the convenience of selecting something to watch and then to getting right to it skipping all the crap, and to avoid physically handling the disc. These conveniences are multiplied because I have (or will have) Popcorn Hour players in more than one system around the house. I have 300-400 movies and buy a few each month, with no TV series in my library. So my storage requirements are quite low relative to someone with a thousand movies and dozens of TV series.

"A Tale of Two Rippers"

Jeff
Edited by pepar - 7/14/13 at 8:44am
post #3464 of 5693
I can tell you my motivation was storage space. When my girlfriend and I got together we each had about 800 DVDs and about 500 BDs. Subtracting the duplicates we still had about 1200 DVDs and over 900 DBs. That includes TV shows and documentaries and other videos. My goal was to get everything on the server so we just didn't have to deal with the discs and also so we could view remotely. I first started ripping when my PS3 died and I decided not to replace it so at that point we couldn't watch BDs in every room.
post #3465 of 5693
There are our three backgrounds that led us each to where we are. Judgements that I am wasting space or DotJun has poor eyesight smile.gif are completely baseless.

Jeff
post #3466 of 5693
I applaud those who stand by their decision to compress, but the expense of time to compress a single movie is heartbreaking.
post #3467 of 5693
I ordered and received The Hunger Games, and popped it in and ran some tools in an attempt at understanding how to determine which playlist is correct when "playlist obfuscation" is employed as a way to discourage copying. AnyDVD HD reports the following. Note the somewhat confusingly phrased "Java BD protection good playlists: 665". Also note that this screen was the same whether SpeedMenu was on or off.



Next is Clown BD. The first time it ran, up popped a Sony ScreenPass notice. Note the "665" again.



Saying "Yes" results in Clown BD going directly to a playlist, though there is no indication of *which* playlist is being used.



Saying "No" results in Clown BD displaying all playlists ... all? #665 is not there ... puzzling.



BDRB looks like this. Again, it offers 665 as the main movie.



Comparing BDRB and Clown BD (after "no"), the 665 playlist has the exact same segments as 76. I googled ScreenPass and found Slysoft and DVDFab have defeated it. With this, I would guess that I should say "Yes" to Clown BD when it offers the "movie location."

Anybody else confirm this workflow or have a different solution?

Jeff
Edited by pepar - 7/14/13 at 1:50pm
post #3468 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Anybody else confirm this workflow or have a different solution?

Jeff

Your flow is correct. The reason 665 doesn't show in ClownBD list is because 76 is the exact same, so ClownBD assumes there's no reason to show it.

ClownBD gets its ScreenPass info (the 665 playlist number) from AnyDVD HD (through the disc.inf file it creates).
post #3469 of 5693
Thanks. Are there any "obfuscated" playlist titles that do not use ScreenPass and does AnyDVD HD cut through the BS and list the correct playlist in the "Java BD protection good playlists: xxx"" statement?

Would I be correct in guessing that the disc.inf will always list the correct playlist?

Jeff
Edited by pepar - 7/14/13 at 3:33pm
post #3470 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Thanks. Are there any "obfuscated" playlist titles that do not use ScreenPass and does AnyDVD HD cut through the BS and list the correct playlist in the "Java BD protection good playlists: xxx"" statement?

Would I be correct in guessing that the disc.inf will always list the correct playlist?

Jeff

Pretty sure AnyDVD HD should handle all known obfuscation schemes. Barring brand-new discs that are designed to fool AnyDVD, it should always show the correct playlist. Any new twists are usually fixed by the AnyDVD developers within a few weeks max.
post #3471 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Thanks. Was your original motivation to compress because of storage space?

So far, I always have owned the movie. I rip to get the movies onto a media server for the convenience of selecting something to watch and then to getting right to it skipping all the crap, and to avoid physically handling the disc. These conveniences are multiplied because I have (or will have) Popcorn Hour players in more than one system around the house. I have 300-400 movies and buy a few each month, with no TV series in my library. So my storage requirements are quite low relative to someone with a thousand movies and dozens of TV series.

"A Tale of Two Rippers"

Jeff
I originally started this whole thing because my kids at the time were under 5 years old. Well, being kids they did three things when it came to watching movies: 1) unorganized the DVD rack. 2) scratched the discs. 3) didn't put discs back and if they did the discs would usually end up in the wrong box.

This prompted me to put together an htpc to end the disc nonsense. At this time I was ripping straight to iso without compressing because even at the time, a little over a decade ago, storage was cheap.

As my kids and I started not only watching movies but tv series I was hit with multiple episodes on a single file. What's the problem you ask? Well the problem is for example, after watching a single file with let's say episodes 1-4, my media center front end thinks I've only watched episode 1. So I found a way around it by renaming the file to something along the lines of "episode 1-4" in which case my front end would correctly identify all four episodes watched when I watched this single file.

That only fixed part of the problem though because my media player had no way of knowing where to start if I wanted to watch episode 2 of 4 when it is a single file. Again I found a solution to this newest problem. I just split the vob using a vob editor. Well a new problem happens when you do this, actually two new problems. One is that the audio could and often went out of sync and two there is no way to split a vob to the exact frame you want. You can only split by gop's.

So in the end the only solution for me was to encode. This gave me full control of how I fed data to my front end. It made for the cleanest setup. I'm sure I'm in the minority when it comes to stuff like this, but I abhor non-tidy file systems smile.gif oh one more thing, compression does save me a lot of space. To those that run hardware raid like I do will appreciate that because even though hdd's might be cheap, raid cards surely aren't if you keep the mentality of just adding more and more hdd. I can't even use 4tb drives with my card because it isn't supported.
post #3472 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post


That only fixed part of the problem though because my media player had no way of knowing where to start if I wanted to watch episode 2 of 4 when it is a single file. Again I found a solution to this newest problem. I just split the vob using a vob editor. Well a new problem happens when you do this, actually two new problems. One is that the audio could and often went out of sync and two there is no way to split a vob to the exact frame you want. You can only split by gop's.

So in the end the only solution for me was to encode. This gave me full control of how I fed data to my front end. It made for the cleanest setup. I'm sure I'm in the minority when it comes to stuff like this, but I abhor non-tidy file systems smile.gif oh one more thing, compression does save me a lot of space. To those that run hardware raid like I do will appreciate that because even though hdd's might be cheap, raid cards surely aren't if you keep the mentality of just adding more and more hdd. I can't even use 4tb drives with my card because it isn't supported.

Wow, good stuff here!

What are others doing as a solution to the multiple episodes/single file/sync issue?

Perhaps a software RAID is all you need? They work with (relatively) inexpensive and simple multi-port SATA cards.

Jeff
post #3473 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

What are others doing as a solution to the multiple episodes/single file/sync issue?
For DVD, I don't find it to be an issue since just about every player supports full DVD menus and most will write a bookmark to remember the position you left off. I rip all my TV series disks as full disk .iso. When I play the image, I use the menu to select the episode. When it finishes playing it returns to the menu with the next one highlighted. When I return to that image at a later date the menu pops up with the next episode highlighted just as I left it.
post #3474 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

My personal transcodes take between 10-30 hours depending on the source. One that only takes 8-12 hours looks pretty damned good though. You really should have a look yourself. There's plenty of great examples at doom9.

I will agree that if you are talking about the torrents then yes those mostly look like trash. Most people that spend the time to actually learn how to properly encode their movies don't go about posting them up for torrent sites.

I'm merely speaking of the time it takes to transcode a file. When someone tells me they get 20+ done a day let's just say I'm skeptical. I don't need to transcode anything. I don't steal/hoard media that really accomplishes little other than prop up ego-driven "look at all the media I have" hype-sessions, so I have plenty of space for ~400 movies.

One thing that I quickly discovered when I began ripping is how much stuff I don't need. Now granted, it was only a handful of titles for me that I chose to not rip, but going over my wife's collection, she easily dropped a few dozen of her hundred or so. Honesty: if you haven't watched a given movie in 3+ years, why would you archive it? Just for the sake of having it? No thanks...I think I'd actually be embarrassed by many of the titles that pass for "entertainment". rolleyes.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif

I'm glad I wised up early on and stopped buying discs of films I really had no clue as to whether they would ever be watched again...it was just plain stupid on my part. And if I discover I'm not watching some of those I have ripped, l'lll delete those in a heartbeat with no reservation.

I'm not saying YOU do this (steal/hoard content), btw, just that tons of others do. In re to transcoding: the amount of time it takes to manipulate these files is absolutely nowhere near equitable for most...simple as that. Everyone else can do as they please, of course.

thanks
James
Edited by mastermaybe - 7/15/13 at 8:03am
post #3475 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

For DVD, I don't find it to be an issue since just about every player supports full DVD menus and most will write a bookmark to remember the position you left off. I rip all my TV series disks as full disk .iso. When I play the image, I use the menu to select the episode. When it finishes playing it returns to the menu with the next one highlighted. When I return to that image at a later date the menu pops up with the next episode highlighted just as I left it.

So, evidently it is BD licensing issues that keep players from doing BD menus?

Jeff
post #3476 of 5693
So, I popped in The Amazing Spider-Man (2012) and ran the tools. Looking in the PLAYLIST folder, there are 154 MPLS files. AnyDVD HD does not report any playlists, nor does the disc.inf list one. Clown BD does not offer the window where one would select a playlist; it goes directly to the window where one selects video/audio/subtitles. BDRB, set for main movie only, displays 0001.mpls.

Apparently, this is not a movie with playlist obfuscation? Why are there 154 playlists?

Under subtitles, there are three "unspecified" English subtitles. For anyone who has watched it, what are these subtitles and are they needed?

Under the audio section, is it necessary to select the core DTS or does selecting the Master Audio extension include the core by default?

Thanks, Jeff

post #3477 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I'm glad I wised up early on and stopped buying discs of films I really had no clue as to whether they would ever be watched again...it was just plain stupid on my part. And if I discover I'm not watching some of those I have ripped, l'lll delete those in a heartbeat with no reservation.
 

+1

At least there are two of us!

I was starting to wonder for a while there. wink.gif

Michael

post #3478 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

So, I popped in The Amazing Spider-Man (2012) and ran the tools. Looking in the PLAYLIST folder, there are 154 MPLS files. AnyDVD HD does not report any playlists, nor does the disc.inf list one. Clown BD does not offer the window where one would select a playlist; it goes directly to the window where one selects video/audio/subtitles. BDRB, set for main movie only, displays 0001.mpls.

Apparently, this is not a movie with playlist obfuscation? Why are there 154 playlists?

Under subtitles, there are three "unspecified" English subtitles. For anyone who has watched it, what are these subtitles and are they needed?

Under the audio section, is it necessary to select the core DTS or does selecting the Master Audio extension include the core by default?

ClownBD will ignore any playlists shorter than about 20 mins, iirc. If it doesn't even allow you to choose a playlist, that means there's only one that's longer than that.

For subs, you can demux then load them up with BDSup2Sub to see what they are. Sometimes one is only subtitles, one will include descriptions of sound effects (SDH), and one will be subs for the commentary track. But it can vary from one title to the next.

You do not need to select the core audio, assuming your playback equipment supports the HD audio.
post #3479 of 5693
^ Yeah LBNL, lol, it's a posturing, ego thing with a lot of guys, no doubt about it. No different than the stilt with a 500,000 song itunes library who hasn't listened to 98% of it. You'll hear a lot of of plug-ins attempting to describe it as something else, but when it's not played back it has absolutely no value to the user.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 7/15/13 at 9:13am
post #3480 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Apparently, this is not a movie with playlist obfuscation? Why are there 154 playlists?
Most are associated with extras or the menu structures.
Quote:
Under subtitles, there are three "unspecified" English subtitles. For anyone who has watched it, what are these subtitles and are they needed?
They could be "normal" subtitles; subtitles for the hearing impaired; directors commentary, etc.
It is rare that I rip a BD title with only a single english subtitle stream. I typically run the demux stage of Clown_BD first with only the english subtitles selected -- this is fairly quick to extract the subs. Then I look at the individual steams with SupRip to see which is the one I want and if there are any forced subs. Then I'll go back and run the full extraction with the proper subtitle stream selected.
Quote:
Under the audio section, is it necessary to select the core DTS or does selecting the Master Audio extension include the core by default?
Not necessary to select core DTS -- it's included with DTS MA.

edit: I see my post is redundant.
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