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Ripping Blu-Rays II - Page 137

post #4081 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

What grief would it cause? As discussed before if you have something like a PCH or Dune then your container and codec are less important. But if you like being able to direct play your media on portable devices and every other device then m2ts is pretty much the worst container you can use. You can get more information here as to why mkv is a more capable container. It's the most flexible and compatible container available.

As to playing LPCM on XBMC I'd like to know.... what software did you use to mux the stream and what audio settings do you have set? I'm guessing you're using the default analog setting in XBMC which isn't bitstreaming the audio.

TsMuxerGUI is my go to although I do use Clown_BD from time to time but that still relies on TSMuxer anyway and you're guess would be wrong, I'm no rookie when it comes to this stuff wink.gif I am using the WASAPI setting in XBMC, I get TRUE-HD, DTS-MA and LPCM....3:10 to Yuma (7.1) & Black Hawk Down (5.1) play without issue. I have also had no issues playing m2ts files on ANY of my players in order of initial usage:

  • WDTV Live+ stock firmware
  • WDTV Live+ b-rad firmware
  • Panasonic BD-75
  • Micca EP-950 stock and modded firmware
  • WD-SMP
  • Panasonic BD-500
  • Mede8er 450x2....gave this to my sister in law
  • HTPC - Intel NUC i5 running XBMC Frodo

Everything used DLNA & Mezzmo with NO transcoding of course until the HTPC...didn't care for the Panasonics much as they don't allow bitstream of TrueHD over DLNA but both LPCM and DTS-MA worked fine.

If you want a digital copy just compress into an mp4 with handbrake once and be done with it.

Bill
post #4082 of 5693
Playback issues are related to the codec not the container. All the issues people report always come down a scenario similar to trying to play VC-1 or something on a Blu-ray player that only supports H.264(x264). I take a lot of videos with me on my tablet and m2ts is useless for that. With mkv I can have everything I want/need. If I could natively playback m2ts on more than a couple devices I would give it more consideration.
post #4083 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

TsMuxerGUI is my go to although I do use Clown_BD from time to time but that still relies on TSMuxer anyway and you're guess would be wrong, I'm no rookie when it comes to this stuff wink.gif I am using the WASAPI setting in XBMC, I get TRUE-HD, DTS-MA and LPCM....3:10 to Yuma (7.1) & Black Hawk Down (5.1) play without issue. I have also had no issues playing m2ts files on ANY of my players in order of initial usage:

  • WDTV Live+ stock firmware
  • WDTV Live+ b-rad firmware
  • Panasonic BD-75
  • Micca EP-950 stock and modded firmware
  • WD-SMP
  • Panasonic BD-500
  • Mede8er 450x2....gave this to my sister in law
  • HTPC - Intel NUC i5 running XBMC Frodo

Everything used DLNA & Mezzmo with NO transcoding of course until the HTPC...didn't care for the Panasonics much as they don't allow bitstream of TrueHD over DLNA but both LPCM and DTS-MA worked fine.

If you want a digital copy just compress into an mp4 with handbrake once and be done with it.

Bill

So I just looked at a screen shot of XBMC on their wiki and it includes a Multichannel LPCM capable receiver setting for bitstreaming. None of my installations of XBMC have this setting. I'm guessing you see something similar in your audio configuration. I'm now stuck wondering why my installs of XBMC aren't showing that setting? What version are you running? Their wiki only mentions the article was updated for v12. I'm running v12.2. Even if I didn't have a LPCM capable receiver connected it should still show up greyed out afaik.
post #4084 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

So I just looked at a screen shot of XBMC on their wiki and it includes a Multichannel LPCM capable receiver setting for bitstreaming. None of my installations of XBMC have this setting. I'm guessing you see something similar in your audio configuration. I'm now stuck wondering why my installs of XBMC aren't showing that setting? What version are you running? Their wiki only mentions the article was updated for v12. I'm running v12.2. Even if I didn't have a LPCM capable receiver connected it should still show up greyed out afaik.

12.2 here as well. I agree it should still show up as well but weirder things have happened, lol. What are the rest of the specs on your machine and what AVR?

I'm currently struggling to get lyrics to work for music using the CU LRC lyric script.

Bill
post #4085 of 5693
For as long, as I've been ripping my content, and tried different formats and encoding, I ended up staying with M2TS and MKV formats. At the moment, I am pretty much ripping everything as MKV container with HD and AC3 sound tracks with subs. So far MKV and M2TS have been the most reliable.

I use ClownBD + MKVMerge in the rare occasions MakeMKV can't rip a movie.
post #4086 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

12.2 here as well. I agree it should still show up as well but weirder things have happened, lol. What are the rest of the specs on your machine and what AVR?

I'm currently struggling to get lyrics to work for music using the CU LRC lyric script.

Bill

I actually completely uninstalled XBMC and reinstalled and the LPCM setting shows up now. On the HTPCs that I installed 12.2 over top of the previous major version is where the LPCM setting wasn't showing up. So... with the LPCM setting now showing up it still doesn't bitstream the audio. My AVR switches to PCM for a couple of seconds and then switches right back as if it recognized there was a PCM track to be played but wasn't able to play it. That was with a file that was ripped to wav straight from eac3to and muxed with mkvmerge. I'll have to retry ClownBD and MakeMKV to see if that makes any difference. Both of my receivers are Harman Kardon AVR 254.
post #4087 of 5693
I've stayed with using ToNMT for all my BD rips to .ts format w/any audio I choose that's available on the disc. I have many HDDVDs and ToNMT also rips them to .ts files. There's only been 2 discs I've not been able to rip: the HDDVD for Pan's Labyrinth and the BD (of all things) Drillbit Taylor.

AnyDVDHD provides the decryption.

Watch the files using our Popcorn Hours A110 & A400.
post #4088 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

I've stayed with using ToNMT for all my BD rips to .ts format w/any audio I choose that's available on the disc. I have many HDDVDs and ToNMT also rips them to .ts files. There's only been 2 discs I've not been able to rip: the HDDVD for Pan's Labyrinth and the BD (of all things) Drillbit Taylor.

AnyDVDHD provides the decryption.

Watch the files using our Popcorn Hours A110 & A400.

Doesn't .ts lack subtitle and HD Audio support?
post #4089 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

I actually completely uninstalled XBMC and reinstalled and the LPCM setting shows up now. On the HTPCs that I installed 12.2 over top of the previous major version is where the LPCM setting wasn't showing up. So... with the LPCM setting now showing up it still doesn't bitstream the audio. My AVR switches to PCM for a couple of seconds and then switches right back as if it recognized there was a PCM track to be played but wasn't able to play it. That was with a file that was ripped to wav straight from eac3to and muxed with mkvmerge. I'll have to retry ClownBD and MakeMKV to see if that makes any difference. Both of my receivers are Harman Kardon AVR 254.

Heck just toss in a movie that you know has an LPCM track and copy the single largest M2TS and try that out. When you use TSMuxer you are essentially just keeping what you want and removing what you dont inside the container, nothing else is changing.

Bill
post #4090 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

Heck just toss in a movie that you know has an LPCM track and copy the single largest M2TS and try that out. When you use TSMuxer you are essentially just keeping what you want and removing what you dont inside the container, nothing else is changing.

Bill

Yeah I can do that for a test and that could work for any movie that doesn't have seamless branching. I'm pretty sure most of them use seamless branching though. At least most of the movies I own.
post #4091 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

Yeah I can do that for a test and that could work for any movie that doesn't have seamless branching. I'm pretty sure most of them use seamless branching though. At least most of the movies I own.

I was thinking for a test, after its working use ClownBD or tsMuxer, they both handle seamless branching.

Bill
post #4092 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

What's your player? On the Dunes if you remux it to FLAC and your audio setting is bitstream then the Dune will still decode the FLAC if it finds it on a track. It's pretty slick.
Convert it to WAV if your player cannot play flac.
post #4093 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

I should correct my statement... it's not converting the audio it is actually just muxing the audio in a wav container then muxing that into the output file. The issue is that XBMC can't bitstream that. I'm not sure if other software players are able to.
There is nothing to bitstream. PCM and WAV are uncompressed.
post #4094 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

I have to ask, if you are using something that makes jumping around the file easy like XBMC then why do chapters matter? In general that never made any sense to me.

Bill
Chapters are great for demo's because you can go straight there vs multiple skip steps. Also, if the chapters are named it is easier and faster to navigate there.
post #4095 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Chapters are great for demo's because you can go straight there vs multiple skip steps. Also, if the chapters are named it is easier and faster to navigate there.

You know what works better for demos? Use tsMuxer and it's split&cut option to cut out just the part you want and create a single demo folder wink.gif

Bill
post #4096 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

You know what works better for demos? Use tsMuxer and it's split&cut option to cut out just the part you want and create a single demo folder wink.gif

Bill

Think this is how gear makers assemble demos for trade shows? They might be doing more and actually authoring the demos because they are quite elaborate sometimes.

Jeff
post #4097 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

There is nothing to bitstream. PCM and WAV are uncompressed.

I agree in theory. But why do media players have an option to bitstream LPCM? I finally got it working in Plex but it still isn't working in XBMC and there is a very noticeable difference between the LPCM being processed in XBMC and it being processed by my receiver with Plex "bitstreaming". It sounds amazing (as it should) when using Plex and it sounds dull when using XBMC. When using Plex the receiver switches to Multi-Channel LPCM 5.1 when using XBMC it stays on Logic 7. Which means XBMC is manipulating the audio stream some how. At any rate I'll take that over to the XBMC forums as this is getting off topic.
post #4098 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

I agree in theory. But why do media players have an option to bitstream LPCM? I finally got it working in Plex but it still isn't working in XBMC and there is a very noticeable difference between the LPCM being processed in XBMC and it being processed by my receiver with Plex "bitstreaming". It sounds amazing (as it should) when using Plex and it sounds dull when using XBMC. When using Plex the receiver switches to Multi-Channel LPCM 5.1 when using XBMC it stays on Logic 7. Which means XBMC is manipulating the audio stream some how. At any rate I'll take that over to the XBMC forums as this is getting off topic.

A loose meaning of the word "bitstream?"

Bitstreaming is sending the raw data stream of a codec (or MLP/DSD) for decoding downstream, e.g. a receiver or processor. With (L)PCM, the input section of the downstream component needs only to pass it on for processing like tone controls, room correction, etc., and then amplification.

Jeff
Edited by pepar - 9/22/13 at 10:40am
post #4099 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Think this is how gear makers assemble demos for trade shows? They might be doing more and actually authoring the demos because they are quite elaborate sometimes.

Jeff

Probably reauthoring although I'm sure that is how we end up with the demo discs users here are kind enough to do for the community.

Bill
post #4100 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

Probably reauthoring although I'm sure that is how we end up with the demo discs users here are kind enough to do for the community.

Bill

Duh, yes. redface.gif
post #4101 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

You know what works better for demos? Use tsMuxer and it's split&cut option to cut out just the part you want and create a single demo folder wink.gif

Bill
Yes but if you have chapter info then you won't need separate files for demos.
post #4102 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

I agree in theory. But why do media players have an option to bitstream LPCM? I finally got it working in Plex but it still isn't working in XBMC and there is a very noticeable difference between the LPCM being processed in XBMC and it being processed by my receiver with Plex "bitstreaming". It sounds amazing (as it should) when using Plex and it sounds dull when using XBMC. When using Plex the receiver switches to Multi-Channel LPCM 5.1 when using XBMC it stays on Logic 7. Which means XBMC is manipulating the audio stream some how. At any rate I'll take that over to the XBMC forums as this is getting off topic.
That's a whole different issue. I do t use Xbmc so I can't comment on that. What does it use as far as codecs go?
post #4103 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

That's a whole different issue. I do t use Xbmc so I can't comment on that. What does it use as far as codecs go?

Yeah. As I mentioned I'll take that discussion to the XBMC forum as I have other questions. The only way this related back to my ripping discussion for audio types is that the "bitstreaming" not working in XBMC caused me to be working off a flawed test case.
post #4104 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Yes but if you have chapter info then you won't need separate files for demos.

If you know where in the movie the demo material is you can just jump to it based on time code, even easier then chapters IMO...easier still is just making a demo folder with just what you want, then you can play that single folder all in a row too biggrin.gif

Bill
post #4105 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

If you know where in the movie the demo material is you can just jump to it based on time code, even easier then chapters IMO...easier still is just making a demo folder with just what you want, then you can play that single folder all in a row too biggrin.gif

Bill
My front end doesn't do time codes. It does skip steps, so chapter info is faster for me.

I tried the demo folder but I didn't like the way you had to navigate to it on my GUI.
post #4106 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

My front end doesn't do time codes. It does skip steps, so chapter info is faster for me.

I tried the demo folder but I didn't like the way you had to navigate to it on my GUI.

That is how we all ended up where we are. What front end are you using?

Bill
post #4107 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

For as long as I have been ripping BD, MKV has been the container du jour and yet it seems that just about every player will have some sort of issue with at least some MKV files -- people are posting on it all the time in the player threads. People like to say it's just a container and so should have no impact on the content, but I don't buy that. The spec. for MKV is very broad because it is meant to do so much and be the "everything" container. I don't think any player has 100% MKV support and the tools to make MKV files also have variability in the files they produce. m2ts is more narrow and well defined and is the native container for BD. It does not have all the container possibilities of MKV but it does exactly what it is supposed to do for BD video. I'm guessing that its rigidly narrow scope makes it straight-forward to implement because I have never read postings of a player that has trouble with .m2ts files. When I first started ripping BD I experimented with MKV tools and immediately ran into playback issues with some rips. I went with .m2ts, which were flawless from the start, and never looked back at MKV. In the intervening time I imagine the MKV tools have gotten more refined and debugged but people are still posting problems with some MKV files and their particular player -- you just never seem to see this with .m2ts. And aren't there still issues with having to convert BD subtitles to a different format for MKV. I suspect that a lot of attraction for MKV stems from the free perpetual beta of MakeMKV which is essentially a free BD ripper.

The only functional difference between .m2ts and MKV for BD rips is that MKV contains chapter point information whereas .m2ts does not. Chapter points in MKV aren't worth a whole lot on a player that doesn't support them (again it's that point I made about lack of 100% MKV support in players). On the other hand for players like the Live-SMP, which has skip-to-time functionality, chapter points are irrelevant and so there is no advantage to MKV.

Now, if you were to argue all the benefits MKV has for other codecs and formats, I would have no comment either way. I don't download/upload anything from/to the internet. Like others, I deal only in ripping 1:1 BD Video for home media-player playback and have the tools that allow me to rip as native m2ts. Unless you absolutely must have chapter points embedded, I see no reason to switch from native BD.m2ts and convert the container to MKV.

I have neither the history or knowledge of many on this matter, but I feel you hugely underrate the value of chapter points. Not really much more to say than that...inputting times, and FF/FFF searches are not a replacement for a few different reasons that usually become instantaneously recognizable to those going without them

I haven't had any problems with my 400+ MKV rips so I can't speak to any playback issues...if indeed they are really related to the file itself or just players that are inadequate when it comes to mkvs.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 9/25/13 at 9:52am
post #4108 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I have neither the history or knowledge of many on this matter, but I feel you hugely underrate the value of chapter points. Not really much more to say than that...inputting times, and FF/FFF searches are not a replacement for a few different reasons that usually become instantaneously recognizable to those going without them

I haven't had any problems with my 400+ MKV rips so I can't speak to any of those issues...if indeed they are really related to the file itself or just players that are inadequate when it comes to mkvs.

James

I recently just switch from using ClownBD + AnyDVD HD to just using MakeMKV. So far, everything has been working well. I changed all of my BD Folder Structure to MKV with chapters by using MKVMerge. I like having chapters biggrin.gif. If by some reason or another MakeMKV can't rip the movie, I use ClownBD to make a Folder Structure, and I then use MKVMerge + MPLS file from the movie to make an MKV with chapters wink.gif
post #4109 of 5693
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I have neither the history or knowledge of many on this matter, but I feel you hugely underrate the value of chapter points. Not really much more to say than that...inputting times, and FF/FFF searches are not a replacement for a few different reasons that usually become instantaneously recognizable to those going without them

I haven't had any problems with my 400+ MKV rips so I can't speak to any of those issues...if indeed they are really related to the file itself or just players that are inadequate when it comes to mkvs.

James

How often you you actually use the chapter points? I suppose my biggest "issue" with them is when dealing with a ripped file, unless you are extremely familiar with a movie where are you getting your reference points to jump to, I mean they aren't listed in blu-ray cases like they used to be for DVD's and you don't have a nice popup that shows a screen cap or words for each point like on disc, so why the need?

Bill
post #4110 of 5693
^ that's a fair point but I'd bet I'm a bit out of the norm in these regards...

1. I re-watch a LOT of movies, many of which I do skip a chapter or two right from the start and/or throughout...very easy and a few seconds. And for those I'm not ultra-familiar with, those chapter buttons- again- are an extremely easy, precise, and fast way to navigate a disc.

2. I do a LOT of concert BD watching and they (chapter skips) are 10/10 for jumping to and from songs...and ever moreso for skipping over some inserts and clips that more and more discs insert between live shows. Ditto all of this for demo and test discs.

I would say again that for people like me who do not encounter problems with mkv file playback it simply makes so sense to give up the ability for the sake of having a native container. If indeed they were- or become- a problem for me, I would absolutely make a switch...for as difficult and stomach-churning as that is to consider.

And lastly for me, I'm certain that my love affair started with makemkv which is so stupidly simple and fast that you'd have to really persuade me to leave it at this point. I'm getting older, less adventurous (or ambitious, I suppose) and apparently, lazier, with each passing day, I guess. biggrin.gif

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 9/26/13 at 5:36am
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