How big a step down is optical from HDMI?

Optical is absolute crap.

BluRay lossless audio cannot pass over optical.

Buy a new 1.4 a receiver, which you should have done in the first place.

You'd likely want to connect your source to the receiver directly, not through the TV. The HDMI handshake between the player and TV almost certainly will tell the player that the TV needs a stereo signal. Once it's stereo to the tv, you'll never get surround back out of the TV into the receiver.

Actually, after typing the below, it occurred to mo that you might be able to split the DHMI signal via a relatively cheap unit from somebody like monoprice, and have the best of both worlds (but I don't know exactly how the vagaries of the HDMI handshake would be handled in that case). Meanwhile . . .

Opinions vary about the audibility of the differences between HDMI and optical. HDMI can transfer multichannel PCM (normal full-resolution digital sound) as well as the lossless versions of Dolby Digital and DTS. Optical cannot transfer multichannel PCM or the lossless DD and DTS. So you lose some resolution going to multichannel through optical.

But the good news is that on BluRay, both DTS and DD, in their lossy versions, are normally encoded at higher bitrates that, from everything I've read here, makes it very hard to distinguish between lossless and the lossy you'd get over optical

In short, optical straight to the receiver, (or split the HDMI). Unless you're going to sit and worry about whether there's some occasional instance in which maybe you'd hear a difference if you had lossless, you're fine going optical from source to receiver.

I'm in a similar boat - strongly considering purchasing a 3D tv but only have a PS3 for a blu-ray player. Because the PS3 cannot output lossless audio and 3D from the HDMI cable, I'm going to purchase a new 3D player (potentially an Oppo) as well as a new receiver. To me, lossless audio is simply too fantastic to step down. I'd rather spend the money and do it right

I strongly disagree!

Optical passes DD 640 kbs and DTS 1.5 Mbs from Blu-ray discs. While this is not lossless, it's very high quality.

I would guess it's nearly impossible to distinguish DTS 1.5 Mbs from lossless.

DD 640 kbs is very good, but some people might be able to tell the difference.

I'm using a PS3 for a 3D bluray player and I can't tell much of a difference. It still sounds really good over optical. My biggest problem is I don't like not having onscreen display so I will probably get a new receiver and a 3D bluray player at some point.

I disagree too. Optical doesn't sound like crap, at least not on my receivers. While optical (or digital coax) isn't as good as lossless audio from HDMI it is still very good. Especially at the higher rates for Blu Ray.

I thought the PS3 slim can output Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA? Eh whatever, I'm using a Dune HD D1 anyway streaming from an unRaid server.

How many 3D devices do you plan to have? If you don't have a 3D blu ray player yet get one with dual HDMI outs and that way you can send lossless audio to the receiver and 3D video to the TV.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...amsung-bdd6700

What receiver do you have by the way? speakers too?

I did not think the PS3 could output both optical and HDMI at the same time. If that's true, I am not sure how you are going to get 3D through a receiver without an HDMI splitter.

I don't think it's going to work sending HDMI to the TV, and then optical from the TV (based on these forums, that usually does not work as expected.)

Yel - the PS3 slim can output video and DolbyTrueHD and dtsHD MA via HDMI at the same time. It cannot, however, do 3D video and the formats at the same time (hence the reason the OP would need to do optical). I'm not stating that Dolby Digital or DTS don't sound good. I am saying that when I invested thousands of dollars into my M&K speaker system I want them to sound as good as they possibly can - I am absolutely blown away at how good lossless sounds on them. That means I have no problem spending $150 to get a dedicated 3D blu-ray player

Maybe that's why your friends are picking on you? You really need to upgrade the speakers in the Onkyo HTIB.

That'll help way more than sending lossless audio to your current setup.

These would be a major improvement.
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search

I strongly disagree with your disagreement

The PS3 had a firmware update roughly Oct 2009 that allows "Multi Audio Out" (HDMI + optical or analog) and a firmware update in Oct 2010 allowed 3D video but restricts audio to lossy DD/DTS so the connection would be HDMI (video) to the 3D TV and optical (audio) to the HDMI 1.3 AVR. Although as has been pointed out, the better option (if not upgrading to an HDMI 1.4 AVR) is to upgrade to a dual HDMI 1.4 BDP to get the lossless HD audio to the AVR.

Well, [E]va, if you have not shown that you can reliably distinguish lossless from high bit rate lossy in a level matched ABX test of otherwise identical mixes, then your opinion and a nickel will leave you with a nickel.



AJ

Wow. This thread is all over the map.

Issue 1 (the one the OP asked about): Is there a big difference between optical and HDMI?
> There's no difference for any source other than lossless on Blu-ray. The audio output of the cable box and the Xbox will be the same either way. So, the OP can feed his 3D video from those devices direct to the TV over HDMI and use optical or coax connections from each device to the receiver for audio without any loss in quality.
> Optical cannot do the lossless codecs on Blu-ray. But, I believe the prevailing wisdom says the high bitrate lossy codecs on BD rival lossless in quality. That is my personal experience, although you'll get different opinions from people like ps24eva. Of course, the OP does not need to rely on the opinions of others. He can simply connect his existing equipment up both ways and see whether it makes a difference to him.

Issue 2: What Happens When Using the Optical Output from the TV?
That was part of the original post and it is a non-starter for audio quality. Most TVs do not pass DD 5.1 from the HDMI inputs and none do DTS. So, connecting the PS3 to the TV to get 3D and feeding the audio from the TV to the receiver for sound will limit the output to stereo. That's not a restriction of optical. It's a limitation of the TV.

Issue 3: How Does the PS3 Work?
> There's no ambiguity in the documentation about 3D and lossless with the PS3. You get one of the other, not both. So, even if the OP had an AVR with HDMI 1.4, he would not get lossless and 3D when running the HDMI signal through the receiver. He will get the same lossy audio using HDMI through the AVR and using an optical connection from the PS3 to the AVR.
> It is possible to connect the PS3 to the display for 3D video while using optical for audio direct to the receiver.

Issue 4: What About an HDMI Splitter?
There are no splitters that will feed HDMI 1.4 to a display and 1.3 to a receiver. It would be great if there were such a device. But, every post I have seen from people trying them so far indicates they don't work that way.

Given that blaket81 doesn't plan on buying a new player with dual HDMI outs, I recommend connecting each 3D capable device to the TV using HDMI and running optical or coax connections from each device to the receiver for audio. Then, get a decent remote like a Harmony to simplify switching.

And upgrade your speakers!

TBH if there is or isn't an audible difference between lossy and lossless sound they won't be heard on HTIB speakers anyway.

What's funny is that some movies audio tracks will sound better in lossy than lossless and the other way around as some are mixed differently. Why those movies aren't identical tracks encoded appropriately is beyond me (top gun dts sounds better than the lossless track from what I hear). Of course we all know that some movies aren't transfered to blu-ray very well (when the 5th element came out, gladiator). I guess picture/sound quality aren't the studio's #1 priority.

Have you compared the two options carefully? It can be tricky, as you have to ensure levels are the same and such.

They sound the same to me, actually. But I don't have a good way to switch back and forth between them reliably.

I interpret crappy as equaling a clear difference, though. And there's no clear and obvious difference.

The only medium I know with lossless compressed audio is Blu-ray.

Correct. Your Xbox and set top box are limited to lossy codecs, which are fully supported over optical. As for Blu-ray, it's debateable whether lossless sounds better than the high bitrate lossy codecs on Blu and, if so, by how much. This is an interesting read on the subject:

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby...compressed_PCM


You shouldn't need that switch. All of your devices can feed optical audio along with HDMI.


Correct. The PS3 can do both, but only one at a time. I gather your standalone doesn't do 3D.