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Cary Cinema 12 - Page 7

post #181 of 375
Glowing report from one member, yet most everyone else thinks it has problems especially with the digital side of the unit.

Still sounds like a big gamble that you won't have problems.
post #182 of 375
B&WKURO: i Totally agree with you on sound quality of Cary 12, and i also using same BDPlayer OPPO 95. but i've been using Cary 12 analog bypass Mode on XLR input 1.
only thing i plan to do is to replace my computer level power cable with bit HIFI leve power cable, and expecting to have some positive differences. and i ask my friend to do a DIY powercable for me.
anyway i am really enjoying my OPPO 95 +Cary in both HT and 2 channel music. really worth for the money.
as for the known issues, based on my basic needs(HT With BD discs and 2 channel music with CD/SACD discs), either not applicable to me or not causing any inconveniences at all.
post #183 of 375
If you're using analog bypass, your Oppo 95 is providing your sound quality, not the Cary.
post #184 of 375
jianhua1975: You have to try using the Cary Dacs instead of the Oppo. I did several head to head comparisons and definitely preferred the Cary DACs, which says a lot, because the Oppo DACs are amazing.

I definitely agree with you about the issues people have had with the Cinema 12. If you have a standard home theater setup (i.e. 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1) and are using current formats like CD, SACD, bluray, or DVD, none of the issues will really affect you.

JimP: Some units have better analog bypass than others, so to say the Cary is not affecting sound quality isn't entirely true. I have used the Oppo on analog bypass with an Integra processor on analog bypass and it was noticeably less detailed than the same setup through the Cary.
post #185 of 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

If you're using analog bypass, your Oppo 95 is providing your sound quality, not the Cary.

Unless jinhua's changed Jim thats only for analog 2ch bypass

Quote:


and actually, i am also using OPPO BDP 95 via HDMI to Cary 12.
post #186 of 375
during the begining period when i got my OPPO95+Cary12, i have been struggling in how
to make Analog input from OPPO to Cary 12 works. and finally i revealed a quite stupid mistake which is the volume in OPPO95 has been lowest.
before the Analog input to Cary making sound, i've been using HDMI to Cary12, and that period, to be honest, i could not feel i was impressed regards to sound quality. maybe due to that time everything is brand new.
post #187 of 375
I currently have my system setup with HDMI from the Oppo, but only use it for bluray and not for 2 channel music. I almost exclusively use my transporter for music. I do wish the Oppo had an AES/EBU output so that I could connect it that way for stereo.

I would be curious to see if you tried it again what you thought of the sound via HDMI to the Cary.
post #188 of 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by B&WKURO View Post

I currently have my
I would be curious to see if you tried it again what you thought of the sound via HDMI to the Cary.

i'll do that , and come back soon with the comparison.
post #189 of 375
hi, i come back with my listening comparison between DSP and Analog(bypass) in Cary 12.
mainly, for DSP, i tried HDMI to Cary12 from OPPO95, and XLR to Cary12 from OPPO95(but with INput 1 set to "DSP" Mode")
for analog, i use XLR to Cary12 with Cary 12 INPUT1 set to "bypass).

repeated same music track for several times, i got following feeling, under DSP mode, Cary's gain is not enough, i must raise volume till -11DB to get good listening volume. and comparing to bypass mode, i feel warmer sound with more precize "positioning", more focusing, feel more comfortable.

for Bypass mode, gain is much biger, sounds more mighty, but harder. but the ingegration of low/mid/high frequency is much better, since under "DSP"mode, Cary is doing bass management based on my setting "Xoverpoint" together with my Sub.
except the unsatisfying low frequence area perfomance, i'd like to be more like the DSP mode sound.
post #190 of 375
Can you elaborate more between the Cary in DSP mode HDMI vs. XLR?
post #191 of 375
hi, i'll do this later, and will come back,
sorry that i've been very busy both life and working.

but i'll come back with more comparison.!
post #192 of 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by B&WKURO View Post

Can you elaborate more between the Cary in DSP mode HDMI vs. XLR?

Still not performed comparison, but to my understanding, only difference is W/Wo the
OPPO95's DAC: XLR Cary 12 is with OPPO95's DAC, HDMICary12 is without OPPO95's DAC.
Theoretically HDMICary 12 shall be better since there is less conversion process.
I'll find this out by listening.
Has been long time without time for enjoying music/movie.
post #193 of 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by jianhua1975 View Post

Still not performed comparison, but to my understanding, only difference is W/Wo the
OPPO95's DAC: XLR Cary 12 is with OPPO95's DAC, HDMICary12 is without OPPO95's DAC.
Theoretically HDMICary 12 shall be better since there is less conversion process.
I'll find this out by listening.
Has been long time without time for enjoying music/movie.

Anytime you use a DSP mode on the Cary, its DACs will come into play. I am curious as to your thoughts between the DACs on the Cary vs. the DACs on the Oppo.
post #194 of 375
post #195 of 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Guess Sean doesn't read AVS.

http://hometheaterreview.com/cary-au...viewed/?page=2

read this through, without strong comments here, except for low frequncy performance, i am not sure what system set up Sean is using, but what i am sure is that my Main+SUB is definatey in bad performance.

what i can figure out the reason shall be not the Cary 12, shall be the unalignment between my sub and main. without sound presure balance, without low&high frequency(Sub and Main) alignment through measurement. but i just bought MIc+EQualizer+soundcard, all unfinished tasks mentioned above is exactly what i plan to do in following days. i need to do the allignment between my Main and Sub first, then i can truely do testing report.
post #196 of 375
Guys, I was wondering if somebody has compared Cinema 12 with Anthem's
D2v or Cinema 12 with Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV?
These three processors are on my short list and any opinion will be appreciated. Cheers.
post #197 of 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post

Guys, I was wondering if somebody has compared Cinema 12 with Anthem's
D2v or Cinema 12 with Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV?
These three processors are on my short list and any opinion will be appreciated. Cheers.

I have not owned the Anthem, but I have demoed it and it was a very capable unit. Comparing it to the Cary, I will say that the Anthem room correction is superb while the Cary's is lackluster at best. If automatic room correction is important to you, the Anthem is the clear winner, although the Cary can be tuned manually for quite comparable performance.

For music the Cary is hands down the winner. Far more lifelike and believable music. The Anthem sounded very artificial to me when listening for music.

The features and function of the Anthem would probably surpass the Cary, but if you like a no frills basic interaction then the Cary would fill your needs.

I hope that helps with your search.
post #198 of 375
kamenoff,

Be sure to read the last few pages of this thread.
post #199 of 375
I just received my Cinema 12 in black from Cary a week ago(12/9/2011). I currently own Krell HTS 7.1 that I purchased in 2007 and though it is time to upgrade with Cinema 12. Am I ecstatic that I did.

My primary concern was quality of the sound both analog section and digital section. When I chose Krell HTS 7.1 was because of its high quality all discrete electronics and preamp section that was used in their preamp line as well. I have plenty to be concerned about because of my ancilliary high end compennts which consists of all Revel Salon2 speakers in the front, Voice2 in the center and GEM2 side and rear surrounds, three mono MBL-9007 amplifiers to power the front speakers and Spectron multi channel amp to power the surrounds. I have MSB Platinum DAC iV fed by Logitec squuezebox from NAS and Oppo BDP-05. I also bought Sharp 70in Quattron 3D 240 hz which is fed by DVDO Iscan Duo coming in from Cinema 12. I have 8 20 amp dedicated circuits with 2 BPT 3.5 conditioner to feed all of my high level components. Wiring i use is Audioquest top end SKY interconnects and K2 speaker wires.

This was a fantastic purchase. I don't much care about room correction having had bad experience with TACT 2.2XP that blew up my old pair of speakers, I tweak my room and use Audio Control 1/3 active analyzer to manually tune and equalize each speakers. Cinema 12 gives you the ability to manually tune each speaker by specifying the distance to each speaker, generate pink noise, and equalizer for each speaker. However, I don't like to employ any electronic equalization since I've found it to have deleterious effect on the sound quality. Anyway, after properly adjusting I let Cinema 12 burn in for 24 hours.

I must say categorically in every respect Cinema 12 is heads and shoulders above Krell HTS 7.1 both in terms of its analog section and its digital surround section. In analog bypass mode employing Cary's volume control, the music in stereo had removed a layer of sound that I was hearing through Krell HTS 7.1's analog section. The sound is more palapably live in its dynamic presentation, openness, subtle nuance and details, imaging that unfolded live music in front of you. This alone made me ecstatic about Cinema 12's quality electronics. I then played Blu Ray MasterHD 7.1 recoridng of Seiji Ozawa condiucting Berliner Symphony in Veinna(I was there in front middle row - paid $500 for the ticket) Beethoven #5. How sweet!!! The surround effect is none other than providing room ambience and you can hear claps around the surrounds but the difference is clearly audible. It placed you squarely in the seat I was in with its emotional impact of being involved in the live concert event that brought back memories of the sound at the concert. Analog stereo recordings puts three dimensional sound from speakers and backwards from there. This puts you in the live envent.

I spent countless hours of enjoying varous music and movie material. The quality of surrounds in any format far surpasses that of Krell HTS 7.1.

I don't have nearly any of the problems being reported on this thread. I do get switching noise especially when I switch between HDMI source between cable and Oppo BDP-95 but other than that no problems. Perhaps this latest model ironed out all of the problems. Other than the automatic room correction which I personally think is a joke having dealt with more sphisticated correction system like Tact and DEQX I applaud Cary for doing such a fantastic job with the quality of their electronics. I am in bliss listening to audio and watching all sorts of video and TV contents. The only other processor I would have considered purchasing is McIntosh MX150 with its Lingdorf(which is same as TACT) room correction but then again I am not into Mac sound and I opt for purity any day. Rest of the processors out there, I am not impressed with their sound quality.
post #200 of 375
casualgolfer,

Do you have a DVR connected and if so, any problems resynching with either a 30 second skip forward or 8 second skip backs?
post #201 of 375
Hi JimP, I'm a audiophile/videophile and don't have set top box with DVR. So your particular issue is trivial and not of concern to me at all. However, I see from all your posts that you're a pundit for this unit perhaps because you have inferior brand and may be jealous and have the overwhelming need to knock this unit whenever possible. Having possibly offended you and increased your desire to knock this unit, I can tell you that this particular issue is not unique to Cary and if very much an issue with Anthem D2V where user in Audiogon have posted his problem and is giving up on his D2V. I include his post as follows:

***

Other options than a D2v

I have a D2v and it has had a number if issues the biggest is loss of sound on almost every source when fast forwarding or rewinding. Anthum recommended using there flash eraser and reinstalling the software. Well now after the flash eraser the unit is dead. It will not load a new os, still responds to the eraser though.

So this might be the last straw I am tired of sending it for repair and being down for a month. What other options do I have in a video and audio processor that are good. I thought the Anthum was great at improving the video and maybe a 8.5 out of a 10 on the audio.

Programmergeek
post #202 of 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by casualgolfer View Post

Hi JimP, I'm a audiophile/videophile and don't have set top box with DVR. So your particular issue is trivial and not of concern to me at all. However, I see from all your posts that you're a pundit for this unit perhaps because you have inferior brand and may be jealous and have the overwhelming need to knock this unit whenever possible. Having possibly offended you and increased your desire to knock this unit, I can tell you that this particular issue is not unique to Cary and if very much an issue with Anthem D2V where user in Audiogon have posted his problem and is giving up on his D2V. I include his post as follows:

***
...snip



BS detector just went off.
post #203 of 375
BS. huh. See this link: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr...yw&zzcinema=12

So, JIMp what processor do you have that makes you such an authority?
post #204 of 375
CG.....

Either its fixed or it isn't. It doesn't get any simplier than that.

If you want to divert this discussion into personal attacks, we'll let the moderator handle it.

Have a nice day.
post #205 of 375
You single out detriment of Cinema 12 for this minute point when the issue is common to Anthem D2V and Integra DHC-80.2 and perhaps others. Why don't you go on their thread and raise stink as well.
post #206 of 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by casualgolfer View Post

You single out detriment of Cinema 12 for this minute point when the issue is common to Anthem D2V and Integra DHC-80.2 and perhaps others. Why don't you go on their thread and raise stink as well.

CG- Cary has a history which left a very sour taste in our mouths. Although, other processors may have some issues, I trust they are doing what they can to resolve them. Anthem for example, although not my favorite sounding piece for music, their support team was knowledgeable, understood the issues and I feltt comfortable they were working through the issues. Cary on the other hand, doesn't know their own product (with the exception of their analog gear). Although, I will agree when it was working, it sounded great for music. Especially for the it's price point.

Point is, they should stick with what they know. Otherwise, they will continue to hurt their reputation.
post #207 of 375
I had the C12 for a while now and had listened to many other units as well. I can now say that I have no regret of choosing the C12. Despite of its unresolved problems on the digital side, there is just no other brand that can match its performance in sound quality at that price point or come close to it. If I have to buy something today and I don't have the C12, I am pretty damn sure I will pick it again. Together with the Oppo95, they are just a match in heaven. If you have access to some Bluray Audio Only disc, try it, you will be surprise that there is no problem there. I also listened through the headphone amp. with a Sennheiser HD598, I think it is as good as the headphone can get but the volume has to turn up a lot.
post #208 of 375
I forgot to mention, I had Casablanca III with front three channels having extreme dacs(no video switching because I have DVDO) that I had paid $8K before I purchased Krell HTS 7.1. I also had a pair of Theta Citadel mono amps when I had the Casablancas. I sold Citadels because it did not sound good to me at all. It sounded dark and not worthy o fits price point. Apparently Niel the owner said he fired away the amp designer at Classe to design the circuits. So, this experience had left me prejudiced against sound of Classe even though I had not listened to any of their equipemnt. I was very dissapointed with Casablanca. Aside from being a bitch to work through menus to set up or adjust anything, it didn't sound all that great for the price. I thought Krell HTS 7.1 sounded better which is why I sold it and got Krell HTS 7.1. I constantly change gear when any improvements can be made. It just so happens that my path to audio nirvana has led me from most expensive processor to the least with great sound improvements. There may be some glitches with C12 but all the functions and surround modes work great with all the sources I've tried and both that analog and digital sections sounds fantastic. A real buy in my book. But I am an audio whore and will get any new equipment if improvements can be realized at a reasonable price. One that I got my sights set on is getting the new McIntosh MX121 that was announced at CEDIA recently that will retail for $6000. Supposedly it has new features that even their MX150 don't have. The only thing it lacks is automatic room correction a la Lyngdorf. I can definitelh live without it because I had horrible experience with TACT which is US counterpart for the same room correction equipment when it blew up my old pair of speakers with full range output glitch it had in the software. I will find a way to get MX121 and demo it on my system when it becomes available and compare with C12. For the time being, you are missing out on C12 if the past problems with this equipmet is scaring you off from its sonic nirvana. I would get your local dealer to loan you a demo and give it a try rather than believe the pundits in this thread.
post #209 of 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by casualgolfer View Post

Apparently Niel the owner said he fired away the amp designer at Classe to design the circuits. So, this experience had left me prejudiced against sound of Classe even though I had not listened to any of their equipemnt. I was very dissapointed with Casablanca.

The Citadel amps sound nothing like the Classe (at least not the current Classe amps).
post #210 of 375
Hi, Blem,

Does HDMI input have the mentioned issues related to digital input? Thanks.
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