Cary Cinema 12 - Page 12

I sold my Cinema 12 as I thought I would go back to to channel which is what I love. But my matching Cary Audio 7.125 Amp hasn't sold.

I had a few issues with the C12, not much pops but the damn HDMI inputs would not switch at times. Sound was good but compared to all the small niggling glitches which no Japanese brands have it can get frustrating.

Now I am looking into the Marantz 8801 or the Integra 80.3 but am sure sound quality wont be at par with the Cary C12, especially at the analog stages. Maybe will have to buy another Cinema 12. Almost bought a Integra 80.3 today!!!!!!!!!

For a start the cary 12 doesnt have a viable form of room eq like arc ; audyssey . It does have a good analog stage for music [without room eq though] but theres other options here ; parasound comes to mind . So its a good idea to determine where your money should go -digital or analog .

If you go for an oppo [or the new cambridge 752 ] and spend the money you save on a cary 12 on room treatments instead ; with the added advantage of one less component ; not to mention a 2nd hdmi out for a lcd say ; the 2 hdmi inputs may or may not be a factor to you Thats all Ive got got but theres ways around this

as mentioned if the cary 2ch quality appeals just partner up whatever you get with cary 2ch analog pre amp of choice. they come with ht bypass feature so will easily integrate with any ht system for best of both worlds. its as easy as that. cary make some great 2ch analog pres so no real reason you have to miss out

I know alot on here have found problems with the Cinema 12 but I wanted to mention that it was given a top pick by hometheater.com and also got rave reviews on hometheaterreview.com.

I am a little torn as I think something such as this or the Classe that does more of only audio processing of an analogue signal can be a very good thing for sound quality. I also like that they do 100% pass through of the video. However, I wish that they would separate everything still further as when you make an upgrade of any sort because a new audio format comes out you risk losing the sonic qualities that you liked before!

I guess I just need something more like the Parasound P7 but with a brain.

I would look at something other than the Cary for home theater IMO. Still too buggy.
Edited by adidino - 1/9/13 at 2:03pm

Sad, hopefully they get the bugs fixed, the audio quality that everyone raves about and the price point are both hitting the right notes...but with how many compaints about it I have read on the forums makes me agree....

I received my Cinema 12 a few months back, but I only hooked it up a couple of weeks ago. Meanwhile I've read this thread & I have to say I was worried if I made the right purchase. The C12 replaced my Arcam AV9, and is currently hooked up to my Arcam P7 7-channel power amp, which will be replaced with Cary's 7.250 shortly. I'm running ProAc D28 fronts (D38s currently in storage), ProAc D Centre & ProAc Tablette Ref Signatures with a REL Strata 5 Sub in a 5.1 system.

Only two issues initially. On the rare occasion there would be a minor pop or two when changing between HDMI inputs. Too insignificant to worry about.

The only other issue and of more concern was that when always switching to the HDMI input with Foxtel IQ2 box connected (I.e. satellite pay TV), there was initially no audio. The audio issue was fixed simply by changing the Foxtel channel or switching to the Foxtel TV guide. Switching to my HDMI inputs with my Topfield PVR or Denon Blu-ray Disc player connected did not exhibit this audio problem.

The missing audio signal issue (when switching to Foxtel), does not occur at all if I use my Logitech Harmony One remote for HDMI input switching.

Maybe I've been a little lucky from what I've read on this thread as the only issue I'm left with is very occasionally I'll get a light pop as mentioned.

I've found the C12 to be a very significant step-up in SQ over my AV9.

In my case, I'm extremely happy with the C12. I hope there are others that have had a good experience with the C12.
Edited by jimval - 1/10/13 at 5:44am

What happens when you either skip forward or skip backwards on your DVR?

I didn't notice any skip issues previously but I checked again after reading your post.

I'm relieved to report no skip forward or reverse issues using my Topfield 2460 PVR.

Using the C12 with the Topfield is not flawless though.

The volume of the Topfield FTA channels with PCM 2.0 content is low when compared to channels with Dolby Digital 3/2.1 content. I guess this can be attributed to the centre speaker coming into play for the latter, and is off for PCM 2.0, though I'm sure the front speakers are louder in the DD case too.

I hazard a guess it comes down to the type of problem(s) you might have, whether it's a deal breaker or not, and I can understand that this uncertainty will turn a lot of people off the C12. As mentioned, I was worried after reading this thread and was expecting the worst. Solving the loss of audio signal when switching to Foxtel by using my Logitech Harmony One remote helped since most of my use is pay TV.
Edited by jimval - 1/11/13 at 4:53am

Someone in the Marantz 8801 thread switched from a C12 to the 8801 and I believe he though it was actually an improvement. I personally have great experiences with Marantz (coming from a Lexicon), but not so much with Okyo/Integra.

Yep. The Marantz sounds very, very good for the money. Impressive.

For analog inputs, do those who have heard both the Cary 12 and the Classe' SSP-800 think there is a significant difference in sound quality?

Also, in what areas is the Classe' superior to the Cary?

I just received my Cary 12 and have a setup question. If I want to setup the speaker balances manually does the 12 create test tones? When I went into manual mode and circulated through each of the speakers there were no tones to measure.

Second setup issue:

I have the Oppo's 7.1 analog outputs (all RCA) connected to my Cary 12 (I don't own an 11a).

I have the Oppo's stereo XLRs connected to my Cary SLP-05.

I have the Cary 12's L/R XLR preamp outputs connected to my Cary SLP-05's cinema bypass.

I have the Cary 12's other 6 channels of preamp outputs (all RCA) connected to my subwoofer and my multichannel amp.

The issue is that when I select 7.1 bypass as my input on the Cary 12, I don't get anything coming through my main L/R speakers. However, if I select a digital input (coaxial from my DVR), I get full 5.1 sound. So, the issue isn't the basic Cary 12 preamp output since I can get full 5.1 sound. The issue seems to be that if I select 7.1 bypass input it won't pass the L/R signal from the Oppo analog RCAs to the XLR preamp output.

I have now used the Cary 12 for a week now and I am enjoying it with no issues. I have heard no pops while stopping and starting the DVR. And the unit has that typical, neutral Cary sound.

Are you using the Oppo to process the HT codec (Dolby TrueHD, DTS Master, etc) and then perform the D/A conversion? I don't use my SLP-05 with my HT set-up, so I hope I'm missing something. Clearly , the Cary C12 should be getting nothing less than the raw bitstream from the Oppo (via HDMI).

I am using the Oppo to decode the lossless formats. The Cary 12 decodes DD from my DVR.

The SLP-05 isn't used for HT. it is set on cinema bypass.

Why? If the Cary doesn't wipe the floor with the Oppo then what did you pay for!? I would urge you to get the bitstream over to the Cary and let the improvement blow your mind.

Have you done the comparison between the 2? Maybe your signature isn't current but you don't seem to own either. I could be wrong.
Edited by dminches - 2/25/13 at 4:45am

I do not, but if the Cary C12, which would go into battle against the Bryston and Classe flagships, fails to produce FAR better processing and D/A conversion than an Oppo, then Cary C12 would no longer be selling to discerning audiophiles around the globe. Why would anyone pay over $4,000 for a component and then not even use it? I am famliar with many Cary components and their DAC implementations are no joke. Of course, the "magic" is in their power supply designs and analog output designs. I do use their flagship CD/SACD player, which is a game changer for anyone who hasn't heard anything less than a Playback Designs MPS-5 or dCS Puccini. Of course, the 306 is a notch up on the C12.

Take the bitstream from the Oppo vial HDMI to the Cary. Send the analog outs (XLR, which is true fully balances and not fake balance) from the Cary to your home theater power amps. Set up the C12 properly- speakers to "small" (hoping you have a sub), etc. Play your favorite blu-ray demo clip. Fall out of your chair. The detail will be stunning. I would wager on it.

You should read up on the Oppos. Their performance is measured well beyond their price.

Also, why would the Cary have a 7.1 analog input if it wasn't meant to be used. Frankly, Cary has always been a master at analog but has been weak at digital, at least as far as their processors are concerned. I will certainly experiment with all the different combinations, but my guess is that the optimal setup is using Oppo's digital capabilities in combination with Cary's analog capabilities. In this case i am using the best of both components. To say that I am not "using" the Cary if I use the analog bypass is wrong. There is still a lot going on even with the bypass.

You do not want to set the fronts to small. You just do not want to set them to full. My Vandersteen 5As each have a built in subwoofer so I could set them to full but I don't since i also have a Velodyne sub.

Are you using a Cary 12 or a Marantz?

Cary is weak at digital? HDMI was definitely a problem for many boutique hi-end players and that's why you don't see many components from them. As for digital more broadly, the 306 is amazing and has the reputation over several years to back that up. Only a step up to the likes of Playback Designs MPS-5 or perhaps Esoteric (and certainly Puccini) at a sizeable investment will beat it. They don't design the digital stage here in the States- that is true.

The processing and D/A conversion of the C12 will kill the Oppo. I'll eat crow otherwise. Please report back.

When I said digital I did mean HDMI.

I have no reason to use the C12 for D/A conversion given my other DACs.

I don't know how you know that the C12 will kill the Oppo if you haven't heard either.

Just so you know, I love the cary stuff. I own an SLP-05, SA-500.1 mono blocks, C12, SLI-80 F1 Sig and xciter DAC. However, the Oppo units are top shelf.

Reputation and personal experience (with other models). If you switch it up after a few weeks acclimating to the current configuration and don't experience a dramatic updrade, then please let me know. I should hope that the Cary, at nearly $5,000 and targeted to audiophiles, will have a DAC implementation that bests the Oppo. I'd expect steering to be phenomenal. If the C12 is not in the game with the Bryston or the Classe, then I'd be surprised and very disappointed. I upgraded from a Transporter digital front end to the 306 (as DAC and as spinner) and, not expecting too much, was caught very much by surprise at the dramatic improvement in nearly every aspect of sound quality. The C12 has quite a reputation for delivering sound quality, notwithstanding HDMI concerns and lack of easy Audyssey type calibration.

I have a Transporter too but it has a modified tubes output stage designed by Dan Wright. There is no comparison between the stock transporter and the Modwright Transporter.

My Oppo has the same mod for 2 channel audio.

Cool. Yeah, the analog stage is a BIG DEAL. I thought about the mod route for my Transporter, but I wanted SACD. The 306 has a hi-res DAC section, so I can use the Transporter's digital outs (S/PDIF). The improvement in sound quality is, honestly, startling. Additionally, playing CDs in the Cary results in an additional incremental improvement which I believe is due to S/PDIF (jitter perhaps?).

My position on your multi channel is that the genuine, well designed fully balanced analog outs of the C12, having been fed the bitstream signal converted by the C12, will be a big win for your home theater. Balanced end to end is a plus and also the processing and DAC in the Cary darn well better be quite impressive. I'd expect the Bryston or Classe to be used the same way. And with terrific results.

I have nothing against Oppo, btw. I have nothing against Marantz either. Or Denon or Onkyo. Parts and design do matter. The fewer the compromises, the better.

Would be cool to face-off your Transporter with my 306 on redbook PCM. I've always wondered......

I am sure the Cary SACD is very nice. I have yet to hear one....yet.

FWIW, the Oppo has a fully balanced output stage which Modwright modifies.

This is an excellent forum - happy to join in. Sorry for the long response, but I have owned the Cary Cinema 11a for years and have learned a lot about the challenges of HDMI and the pros and cons of the Cary.
FYI, the primary components in my HT and 2 channel system consist of (3) Merlin TSM-mmm's for L, C, R, (1) REL Stentor III Subwoofer, (2) Morel Soundspots (Merlins use Morel drivers), (2) BEL 1001 MK V in mono for L & R, (1) BEL 1001 MK II in mono for C, (1) BEL MK II in stereo for SR & SL, Cary Cinema 11a, Oppo BDP 105, HK T65C Turntable, Grado Starement Sonata Cartridge, Sutherland PhD Phono, and most important to this forum, the new Genie DVR from DirecTV (HR 34?).
The most surprising thing I recently learned is that the HDMI handshake is just that - it requires both components to integrate well together. The Cinema 11a never had any pops with DirecTV's HR22, but always popped after I rewinded or fast-forwarded the HR24 - very frustrating!
I was do for a free upgrade from DTV and got their excellent Genie HR34 receiver (5 tuners, PIP, and 1TB) and connected it to the system in same way as the HR22 and HR24, but there are no pops at all. I believe this is the reason that some owners of Cinema 11a and 12's have pops with HDMI and some do not - it depends on the component connected to the Cary.
Large Japanese companies spend a LOT of time correcting handshake issues, but I would prefer to use DirecTVs best DVR (free upgrade) and get the SQ of the Cary. Once I confirmed that there were no pops, I connected my DVR's HDMI output to the Oppo's input, so I am watching TV via the Oppo's video section and using their DAC to output 7.1 to the Cary. I am aldo using its' balanced outputs to the Cary, as well.

The other point I wanted to discuss is the DAC in the 11a - Cary did not use the same HQ DAC design in their Cinema 11a as their high end SACD and CD players. Believe it or not, but the Oppo's have an outstanding transport, and the Oppo 95 and 105 have better sounding DACs than thd Cinema 11a.
Cary must have realized this, so the main improvements in the Cinema 12 were in the DAC section. They also added more HDMI inputs which are now HDMI 1.4a, but according to Cary, the primary improvement in the Cinema 12 was in the digital section but the analog section is identical to the 11a.

Happy listening!

Dear all,

I would like to ask does Cary Cinema 12 support 4k resolution video pass through.

Thanks.