Latest Ceton InfiniTV 4 Info Thread - Page 38

It will work for the Ceton, but for the PC it might not.
You won't be using your Nic's Mac address once you set up the bridge. The Miniport Bridge will make up a new Mac address. I don't know if this virtual Mac address sticks after a reboot.

I never even thought about this until looking at this thread. Was getting really annoyed having to reset up my tuners any time the power went out! Static IP it is tonight!

Yes, the Ceton is a different story. I don't have mine networked so it is only used by the host HTPC.

Read my previous posts on this subject if you aren't sure of all the details. Not rocket science, but there are some things to be aware of.

For me, it works for both the Ceton and the Miniport Bridge. After identifying the MAC adress for each, simply configured the router to assign a static address to each. That being said, I am not sure whether the MAC address for the Miniport Bridge is assignable or fixed. For me, at least, the MAC address for the Miniport Bridge has remained constant after many reboots and has always been assigned the same IP address.

To confirm, setting the host PC and ceton card to a static IP will solve the issue of having to reboot client PC's in the event the Host PC is rebooted? I have the host connected to UPS, but I'm using MCE Standby tool to automatically reboot the host once a week, as a result, I need to reboot the client PC manually after the Host auto reboot to avoid the "no signal" blue screen, resulting in missed recordings, etc. If some one could confirm a static IP for the host and ceton will solve the issue stated above would be great.

I'll need to schedule a maintenance windows to make the changes.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815706002

finally, I can use a gift card I have...

So whats the benefits of the usb version? That you dont have to have the other computer on all the time? what if i was planning on using my main PC plus 2 media center extenders?

1) Doesn't use up a slot in the PC. This makes it easier to use it with smaller form factor PC's (or laptops) that have very few (or no) expansion slots or in larger PC's that already have all slots in use.

2) Keeps the heat from the card away from the rest of the PC.

3) Has a full-size coax connector, so there's no adapter cable needed.

The PC would still need to be on all the time if you're sharing some of the tuners to other PC's (I assume that's why you asked) as the tuner data has to go from the USB bus to the PC, then to out to your home network via the PC's network port.

If you're using media center extenders, the host PC has to be on for the extenders to extend it as they basically run a remote desktop connection to the host PC.

If I reboot my host, the client PC will typically display the "no tuner available" message for a few seconds, but will then tune and display the requested channel. It is my understanding this is normal behavior.

I am not sure if this is what you are refering to, or if your blue screen is permanent until a client reboot.

The latter case I believe would be fixed.

PS - "maintenance window" ?? LOL. It's not a corporate network, reboot it whenever you want

Why wouldn't they just make it ethernet? I guess you would still need a PC on full time for storage.

Have to get approval in advance from management (aka the wife)?


Not sure, but I'm sure they have their reasons.

If the external tuner used an ethernet interface and they implemented it as a true standalone tuner device that just makes tuners available over the network, you would only need to have a PC on if you wanted to watch or record something on that PC. I'm assuming this is how the Silicondust tuner is supposed to work.

Yep, no ceton, no TV, well except for what I get via the TV's buil t in quam tuner but that has to be watched live, and we don't usually start our evening TV watching unitl 8:30-9, so we are always watching something recorded, and yes, I can't do any changes to the host PC until I receive approval for the CTO, aka the wife.

I just did a reboot of the host, and the client was in standby, after waking the client I can change the channels and view the guide menu but I'm getting the message "service unavaliable" on every channel, but after a reboot of the client, all is well. Maybe I can find another program to do scheduled reboots, vs. the MCE tool, which is more or less random.

I don't want to allocate time setting up the static IP unless there's some added benefit, as side from the host reboot issue, I have no problems related to the ceton that is, and waf is at an 8, once I get around to getting a haromony remote, i'm sure I'll achive a 10 out of 10.

So if anyone can confirm if the static IP solves the host reboot problem requiring a client reboot would be much appreciated.

Read my post again.

Thanks, I misread it the frist time around, thanks, I'll give it a go.

If you're referring to leaving the client powered up while the host goes through a reboot, apparently that does not work. I don't leave my clients on 24/7, so I never see that issue.

Apparently that is something for Ceton to fix. I'll submit a bug.

Edit: Ceton says there is no way around the host reboot issue, although you can restart the media center service instead of the PC.

"When you share a tuner out, and a client pairs with that tuner across the network they become tied. If they host is reboot your client is going to go down, there is no way to avoid this.

Try restarting the media center service (ehRecvr) on the client instead of rebooting and see if that helps."

The InfiniTV does use an active internal splitter, and should work off a cable jack that provides an adequate signal without another amplifier. Without knowing more information about your situation, I can't say if you have experienced a hardware failure, or had wiring issues. In our experience, many houses have sub-standard wiring, and this is even more profound with two-way devices (TAs).


Reaktek drivers are some of the (likely the) buggiest drivers on the market. Intel NICs are *FAR* superior.

Just for comparison my Tivo HD worked fine on the same cable jack without any amp. It was only a 3 tuner device but other than Comcast specific issues it worked fine on the existing wiring, not so the Ceton.

I am now stable with the beta drivers, the September Realtek drivers, UPS at the router and also on the Ceton host. I have the Motorola +15 dB amp. I have intel nics in most of my clients. I changed a coax drop that would cause cut out when shaken vigorously... I was surprised there was no change in my roughly -0.xx dB signal and SNR of 36.2 dB after the replacing the coax drop

In any case I now have a stable tuner. Of course Comcast has their typical Friday issues and there is the occasional channel that it is only 34.xx SNR those are Comcast specific issues as far as I can tell.

All is now well aside from minor pixelization at times, again, likely Comcast.

I like everybody else hate the messiness of the host/client reboots.

I have not used a Silicon Dust HD Prime, but I have 2 dual tuner HD Homeruns that are some 4 years old now, they may have a simpler task, but they are a hundred times more forgiving in everyday use. No host PC, they just work and because they are dynamic you are never out of tuners. The Ceton would be a much better device with dynamic tuner assignment.

I agree, and this may be a software/firmware change.

If Ceton were to consider enhancements to an already-great product, this should be at the top of the list.

I suspect the host/client reboot issue is something that needs to be addressed by Microsoft.

So how does that work when you have a couple people watching live TV in the house (or just the wife leaving a TV on in multiple rooms as wives seem to do) and the DVR wants to record something. Does it boot off other users from the tuners? Do you not get the recording? Sharing tuners always seems kind of dangerous to me unless you have more tuners than outlets +3 or 4.

Thanks for following up with Ceton, while this is not a deal breaker for me, would have keep things simple for the fam, I'll schedule a task for the weekly reboots, and have the client come up 10 minutes or so after the host, problem solved.

Here's ver 1.4 of my scripts to let both the Ceton InfiniTV4 media server and clients of the media server SLEEP during periods of inactivity without breaking the network tuner configuration (thus avoiding the need to reboot and or reconfigure the network tuners).

What's new is I added an automatic installer as requested to simplify things.

The underlying scripts are good, I've been using them for months now without problem.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/8ij5jv...SleepMod16.zip

Eric,

Those of us out in the trenches have either had smooth sailing, a nightmare or something in between. You can't control what Comcast does. We have had a a little rain over the last two days and I have lost internet for short periods yesterday and today. This would have taken dow the Tivo as well so obviously I don't blame Ceton for that.

I am telling you though that the Tivo would lock to an unboosted signal and ran fine for 3 years. I still have pixelization and blue subscription screens with the Ceton and the amp. My up time is acceptable now.. but I can't say the Ceton would be something I would recommend to anyone who wasn't a PC type.

I can't speak to an HD Prime but their ATSC tuners are suitable for non PC types. I never think about them.. they are as close to appliances as you could expect PC TV tuners to be. I will at some point buy an HD Prime and test it along with the Ceton.

There is plenty of wiggle room on the part of Ceton to blame everyone else if things aren't going well for a certain customer. Having seen the two approaches to doing network TV tuners I vastly prefer the Silicon Dust approach. Is the HD Prime as well implemented as HD Homerun probably not yet. The HD Homerun has had years of refinement in software and firmware. You can bet though that there is so much carry over in code and design strategies that it won't be long before the Primes are as rock solid as their underlying tuner circuitry and Windows DRM mess allows.

I am ready for a second cable card tuner and I would be doing myself a huge injustice not to try the competition after what I felt was major pain in arse with the Ceton. Considering I bought the Ceton 9 months after most of the pre-orders had been filled when I could logically expect it to be more the appliance I was expecting. The software and firmware updates seem to be few and far between unless you are on the secret decoder handshake. Silicondust puts public betas out all the time.

I think you miss the point when your design was built for the optimal case. I don't know what that is. I have a single 2 way splitter outside and then from the wall I go straight to a very good quality Motorola BDA +15 dB amp and then to the Ceton. I can't make my wiring any simpler or my provider any better than they are. But successful designs try to make up for something like the worst case. It is clear to me that there isn't much tolerance in your design for what Comcast thinks is a good enough signal.

Again case in point, the Tivo worked unless Comcast was completely down and that was minus the Motorola adding a very cliean +15dB. Truth be told the Ceton without the Motorola amp is a door stop with my provider's signal.

I have done and continue to do every optimization I can. I am essentially stable, but I sure would not want to be in the business of selling PCs and Cetons as a Value added reseller in a Comcast market, at least not in the Houston Comcast market. Maybe they are better somewhere else but this one of the swap city that TWC and Comcast traded like baseball cards.

To update on the above:

1) I swapped out the 6 way splitter with a 2 way splitter and my signal levels went from roughly -3.0 to roughly +3.0 (the exact values vary from channel to channel).

2) I installed the Motorola 15db signal amp and the signal strengths went up to roughly +20.0 (some as high as +26.0 or so). That was clearly too strong, so even though I was able to tuner channels, I decided that it probably wasn't a good idea to leave the amp hooked up. If I get a few minutes free, I may try putting the 6 way splitter back in with the Motorola amp inline before it and see what I get for signal strengths, but I suspect they'll still be too high.

3) I also tried a Channel Vision CVT-2/8PIA-II, which is an amplified 8 way splitter. IIRC, the signal strengths were around +15 or so with this, which was also a bit higher than what we've heard the Ceton cards prefer to work with.

So far now, I have the cards hooked up with the 2 way splitter. I also forgot that the output from the FIOS ONT box goes to a coax passthrough on my APC S20 UPS before it goes to the splitter so that everything coming into my system is covered by surge protection.

So the connection is:

FIOS ONT -> ~15' coax -> APC S20 coax passthrough -> 4' coax -> 2 way splitter -> the 2 Ceton cards.

So far this week, I've only seen the "signal too weak" message once and that was at the very beginning of a recording.

The other change I made was that I turned Aero off. I saw a post from someone else a page or so back who turned it off and found it solved some problems similar to what I've been running into. I don't see any downside to turning Aero off as this PC is used pretty much exclusively for Windows Media Center. On the other hand, turning it off has definitely not completely eliminated the "signal too weak" message (nor had I really expected it would).

At this point, I suspect there's something that occasionally glitches in my FIOS TV feed as everything else seems to be good. I'm really not sure what else to try either. Naturally, it had been working without any issues for about a year and the problem just suddenly started happening a few months back. The PC is setup for manual updates, so it definitely wasn't caused by any Windows updates (I generally only install updates if they'll fix or add something I care about on a system like this one).

GSR,

Without being at your house with some tools I can't tell for sure what is going on. But as an RF/Microwave engineer I want to point out some simple truths:

1) There is no such thing as a "clean" 15 dB amplifier. Some are better than others, all will contribute to noise figure and possibly impedance match issues. An amplifier is no substitute for quality, low loss cable, correctly installed, with a minimum of power dividers. A single two-way should be sufficient for a Ceton-tuned house, right? 1 for cable modem, 1 for Ceton. TV is ethernet now, right?

2) Your signal levels, if correct, with good impedance match and not the result of Voltage Standing Wave Ratio (VSWR) caused by 4 other unterminated runs of cable with open circuits at the end, are more than sufficient. I get signal levels (as measured by Ceton) in the -10 to -12 dB range and it works fine. I don't use an amplifier.

Having read all your complaints, and comments about intermittent reception and bad cable drops (that you have actually found), I wonder if your coax wiring isn't your own worst enemy. It sounds like you are on the right track with a two way splitter (make sure it is top-quality and has a bandwidth of 1 GHZ, with less than 1.2:1 VSWR from 1 MHz to 1 GHz).

I would further emphasize the importance of quality RG8 coax cable from your house to the cableco amplifier using SOLID TEFLON dielectric, not the crap expanded foam that breaks down over the years. This is probably what you have in your house. Replace it. Make the cable co measure loss through the line from their amp to your house (they probably used solid teflon, as opposed to what is in your house). Also use only the cableco style weatherproof crimp connectors, not the junk you find at home labyrinth.

I suspect you can (and possibly have already gone some ways towards doing so) fix your problems with proper coax and quality, single 2-way splitter.

Good luck,

Edit: What is an "APC S20 coax passthrough"?

Oh, is that one of those surge-suppressor things? Unless they provide bandwidth and impedandce match measurements I would be suspicious. You need good RF performance, and I do not know that they provide it. Try bypassing it and see if it improves things.

I realize that amps amplify both the good and the bad (and have other potential issues), but since I was having problems, I figured I'd give the amp a try.


What cable modem - I've got FIOS . There are 2 Cetons in the PC, which is why I need the 2 way splitter for now. And that is indeed sufficient until another drop is needed (certainly not for the time being).


Since there's only a 2 way splitter and both outputs are connected to Ceton tuner cards, there definitely aren't any unterminated runs.


I think you're confusing me with gtgray - he's the one who found bad cable drops by wiggling the connections.


The splitter I'm using is a Channel Vision 1GHz splitter - I've used their splitters for years and never had any issues attributable to their splitters.


Again, I've got FIOS, so there's fiber coming into the house.


Inside the house, I use Belden RG-6 (I don't recall the exact cable part #), Thomas & Betts Snap N Seal compression connectors, and the recommended IT1000 crimp tool for them.


APC S20 UPS

It's a fairly high end "surge-suppressor thing" with UPS (MSRP is around $2k, but I paid about 1/4 of MSRP at Tweeter when they were going out of business). With a 2nd battery module connected to it, it gives everything (including 2 PC's) in my equipment rack in the basement about 2 hours of runtime if the power goes out. It has occurred to me that it could possibly be contributing to the problem I'm running into, though everything was running fine for about a year, including going through the passthrough on the S20. It would be easy enough to bypass that connection for a week or so and see if the problem goes away, but keeping it hooked up bypassed would potentially subject all the electronic gear in the house to lightening damage that wouldn't be covered by APC's equipment protection policy (for whatever that's worth - I've never had to use it, so I have no idea how much of a hassle that would end up being anyway).

Here is a little writeup on it:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/power...ry-review.html

and here is the info from APC:

http://www.apc.com/products/apcav/pr...ase_sku=S20BLK

Read to your heart's content.

Yep, he was the one with constant problems that seem to not be seen by other users.

There is no information on the RF performance of the coax transient suppression port.

While it is not possible to add protection to an RF port without some impact on matching and loss, it could be done reasonably well at frequencies of 1 GHz and below. That does not, of course, mean that they did it properly.

Rolodomo, that's a nice write up, but the WOL from the client requires manual intervention, is there a way to run a windows tasks to wake the server after the client resumes from sleep? If the Client wakes up to record a show, the server will not wake, is that correct?