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Latest Ceton InfiniTV 4 Info Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 4754
My understanding is that Ceton now supports streaming from a PC with their tuner to client PCs. If my interpretation of this is correct, it essentially means Ceton internal tuners can replicate what the pending Silicondust HD Homerun Prime will do from the start. I know I will want 6 to 8 tuners ultimately to feed 3 to 4 rooms. I already have the client HTPCs required for these rooms so the only question now is to go with Ceton or the HD Homerun Prime. I already have a Ceton (yes I paid full pop for it a couple of months ago ) and it works well, but it's currently installed my living room HTPC which I really envision as a media client. Thus, I like the idea of a tuner-server but I'm wondering if it makes more sense to build a dedicated Windows-based tuner server and add another Ceton, or sell the Ceton and just go with the six-tuner HD Homerun Prime? Here are the pros and cons I can think of:
  • Implementing the 6 tuner HD Homerun Prime will ultimately cost less than a 8 tuner Ceton solution
  • Implementing the HD Homerun solution should be less labor intensive, as it would just be a matter of installing/configuring the device. With the Ceton I'd have to buy a rackmount case and build a new PC to accommodate two Ceton tuners. This isn't a big deal, but it is a factor.
  • OTOH, my understanding is that the Ceton will allow a user-determined number of tuners to be assigned to specific PC clients. I find this very appealing because I can prevent guests from potentially becoming tuner hogs. I don't know if the HD Homerun Prime can do this.
  • I've already invested in the Ceton, so why take the inevitable hit on sale?
  • Though the 8 tuner Ceton solution would definitely be more expensive up front, it would also be more potentially scaleable with a single box because I can ensure the PC mobo and processing power supports a third card in the future if necessary. I don't envision this in the near-term but one never knows.
A couple of potentially related factoids:
  • I will have a large NAS (36TB) running MS WHS v1 running by the end of the week which would have plenty of room for TV recordings. All HTPC clients will run WHS connector software.
  • I do have a dedicated room for the NAS with a rack, UPS, and single Gb Ethernet port. The "core" Ethernet switch, router, and cable modem are located in another room. Unfortunately because of the way the home is arranged and wired, I can't co-locate the NAS or tuner-server there.
So what do you all think? Sell the Ceton and go with HD Homerun Prime or build a Ceton tuner server?
post #152 of 4754
My Ceton is arriving tomorrow via UPS. I was curious about how to best go about making it play nice with my existing system which currently uses 2 HDHomeruns.

What's the best way to get them setup and working nicely together in the guide? I want my existing local channels to have the same guide information as from the Ceton. Will just running the TV setup in Media Center again work okay once I get the cablecard installed? Should I clear out all my existing guide information first using various guides on the internet?

Anyone have first hand experience they'd care to share?
post #153 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

I don't and never use any codec within WMC.

I will strongly advise you NOT to install Network Tuner Sharing unless you are sharing the tuner with other HTPC. You might open up another can of worm.

It sounds like you have a working/tweak WMC box and then add Ceton in, right? Remember in order for Ceton working with MS approve/comply all the policies, I am sure they are design/building the hardware and software based on MS and FCC regulations. Please remember that we are just a very small % in the picture and I'm sure they are aiming this to a much bigger retail market out there maybe Dell, Lenovo... the average home users and soccer moms. With that said, all the codec and modifications you have done most likely are causing the troubles with Ceton, fighting with the very tight and straight standard. If you want to have a problem free STB in your HTPC using Ceton, you might want to consider to have a clean OS install and hangs off the box. I can tell you that I have only Ceton as TV player and AnyDVD, VCD, TMT5, MyMovies for DVD/BD player in this box, OC Asus P8Z68 V PRO + i5 2500K, it is working flawlessly, 99%+ uptime.

Haha what? What else would I share the tuners with? My cat? The InfiniTV 4 is in my main rig/theater room. I will keep 2 of the 4 tuners there, and share out 1 each to my family room and bedroom Win7 HTPC's.

As to the codecs, all my HTPCs have been fully operational with local QAM HD channels in WMC with the Shark codecs. I found them to be the best/easiest solution for getting MKV playback and HD audio bitstreaming in WMC/mediabrowser.
post #154 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcSparks View Post

Haha what? What else would I share the tuners with? My cat?

You could install the software and not share it with anything.
post #155 of 4754
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcSparks View Post

Haha what? What else would I share the tuners with? My cat? The InfiniTV 4 is in my main rig/theater room. I will keep 2 of the 4 tuners there, and share out 1 each to my family room and bedroom Win7 HTPC's.

I did not see you mention any your set up and I thought you are just trying to fix your problem using the share tool. All I am trying to say is you might be better off to focus fixing one problem now before adding other things into the mix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcSparks View Post

As to the codecs, all my HTPCs have been fully operational with local QAM HD channels in WMC with the Shark codecs. I found them to be the best/easiest solution for getting MKV playback and HD audio bitstreaming in WMC/mediabrowser.

I agree and notice that many people are happy with the WMC/MKV MB bitstream set up. But as the reasons I stated in my reply, I went different route and not using codec to bitstream instead I back up my BD/DVD to ISO and bistreaming them via TMT5. In this case, I don't need any 3rd part codec and make sure my Ceton not fighting any WMC codec internally.
post #156 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by NNate View Post

My Ceton is arriving tomorrow via UPS. I was curious about how to best go about making it play nice with my existing system which currently uses 2 HDHomeruns.

What's the best way to get them setup and working nicely together in the guide? I want my existing local channels to have the same guide information as from the Ceton. Will just running the TV setup in Media Center again work okay once I get the cablecard installed? Should I clear out all my existing guide information first using various guides on the internet?

Anyone have first hand experience they'd care to share?

I aussume you are talking about using the HD Homeuns for ATSC from antenna. If so is is seamless.. no special accomodations are required. Cable uses only a channle number say 645 CNBCHD on my area Comcast. Our local PBS is 8.1,8.2, 8.3 etc. so the live together in the Media Center guide without any effort. It is automatic when you setup TV signal...
post #157 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post

My understanding is that Ceton now supports streaming from a PC with their tuner to client PCs. If my interpretation of this is correct, it essentially means Ceton internal tuners can replicate what the pending Silicondust HD Homerun Prime will do from the start. I know I will want 6 to 8 tuners ultimately to feed 3 to 4 rooms. I already have the client HTPCs required for these rooms so the only question now is to go with Ceton or the HD Homerun Prime. I already have a Ceton (yes I paid full pop for it a couple of months ago ) and it works well, but it's currently installed my living room HTPC which I really envision as a media client. Thus, I like the idea of a tuner-server but I'm wondering if it makes more sense to build a dedicated Windows-based tuner server and add another Ceton, or sell the Ceton and just go with the six-tuner HD Homerun Prime? Here are the pros and cons I can think of:
  • Implementing the 6 tuner HD Homerun Prime will ultimately cost less than a 8 tuner Ceton solution
  • Implementing the HD Homerun solution should be less labor intensive, as it would just be a matter of installing/configuring the device. With the Ceton I'd have to buy a rackmount case and build a new PC to accommodate two Ceton tuners. This isn't a big deal, but it is a factor.
  • OTOH, my understanding is that the Ceton will allow a user-determined number of tuners to be assigned to specific PC clients. I find this very appealing because I can prevent guests from potentially becoming tuner hogs. I don't know if the HD Homerun Prime can do this.
  • I've already invested in the Ceton, so why take the inevitable hit on sale?
  • Though the 8 tuner Ceton solution would definitely be more expensive up front, it would also be more potentially scaleable with a single box because I can ensure the PC mobo and processing power supports a third card in the future if necessary. I don't envision this in the near-term but one never knows.
A couple of potentially related factoids:
  • I will have a large NAS (36TB) running MS WHS v1 running by the end of the week which would have plenty of room for TV recordings. All HTPC clients will run WHS connector software.
  • I do have a dedicated room for the NAS with a rack, UPS, and single Gb Ethernet port. The "core" Ethernet switch, router, and cable modem are located in another room. Unfortunately because of the way the home is arranged and wired, I can't co-locate the NAS or tuner-server there.
So what do you all think? Sell the Ceton and go with HD Homerun Prime or build a Ceton tuner server?

If you paid full price for the Ceton and sell now, you're going to end up losing some money based on the current pricing. I'm not sure what Ceton plans on doing passed June 30th (end of the instant rebate) with their pricing since HD Homerun Prime is coming out soon after. They will surely have to do something to compete? Don't forget the Homerun Prime 6 tuner will also require you to have a two cable cards, and two coax connections which is rather inconvenient IMO.

With the Ceton, I think (and I could be wrong here) you can only assign the tuners manually to each specific HTPC like you mentioned, I'm not sure if the HD Homerun has this capability since its connected through the network. You might be better off waiting it out for Ceton to release their 6 tuner version so you will only need one cablecard/coax connection, but who knows when that will be and pricing. My guess is if their MSRP remains $399 on the 4 tuner, then the 6 tuner will run $599.
post #158 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I aussume you are talking about using the HD Homeuns for ATSC from antenna. If so is is seamless.. no special accomodations are required. Cable uses only a channle number say 645 CNBCHD on my area Comcast. Our local PBS is 8.1,8.2, 8.3 etc. so the live together in the Media Center guide without any effort. It is automatic when you setup TV signal...

I'll be using the HDHomeruns for Clear QAM cable.
post #159 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

I did not see you mention any your set up and I thought you are just trying to fix your problem using the share tool. All I am trying to say is you might be better off to focus fixing one problem now before adding other things into the mix.



I agree and notice that many people are happy with the WMC/MKV MB bitstream set up. But as the reasons I stated in my reply, I went different route and not using codec to bitstream instead I back up my BD/DVD to ISO and bistreaming them via TMT5. In this case, I don't need any 3rd part codec and make sure my Ceton not fighting any WMC codec internally.


Sorry I thought it would be implied if I was talking about setting up Network Tuner sharing, that I'd actually be doing network tuner sharing. That works well so far by the way.

My issue is resolved sort of, and it was the Shark Codecs. I had it set to use FFDshow for audio instead of the default MS audio codec. That fixed whatever issue it was causing with WMC DRM and I can watch HBO now.

The reason I had that is because that was the only way I could get DD 5.1 to play for live and recorded TV in WMC. So now I'm back to 2 channel audio for that. All my MKVs and various movie files with DD, DTS, DTS-HD, etc playback fine in full surround. So I'm sure I'm just missing something setup wise to get full surround for TV and recordings. Didn't have time to play around with the settings.
post #160 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post
OTOH, my understanding is that the Ceton will allow a user-determined number of tuners to be assigned to specific PC clients. I find this very appealing because I can prevent guests from potentially becoming tuner hogs. I don't know if the HD Homerun Prime can do this.
The Prime will be able to do this. Waiting for CableLabs approval on this was probably one of the things that held up the Prime's release date.
post #161 of 4754
Just curious how much RAM everyone has in their HTPCs with a Ceton Card? I'm having some performance issues here. I have 4GB of ram and when I open WMC and watch any premium channels (hbo/cinemax etc.), the used memory creeps up to high 90s/100% within a few minutes and then I start getting stuttering issues on the picture/sound. If I press stop on live TV the memory is still used until I close WMC and then its freed. Any ideas?
post #162 of 4754
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAYER6669 View Post
Just curious how much RAM everyone has in their HTPCs with a Ceton Card? I'm having some performance issues here. I have 4GB of ram and when I open WMC and watch any premium channels (hbo/cinemax etc.), the used memory creeps up to high 90s/100% within a few minutes and then I start getting stuttering issues on the picture/sound. If I press stop on live TV the memory is still used until I close WMC and then its freed. Any ideas?
ASUS P8Z68-V PRO, i5 2500K, G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) RAM. I do OC a bit and never above 15% CPU usage, watching live TV and recording few shows at the same time. Watching Live TV usually about 4% or less.
post #163 of 4754
Where's the cheapest place to pick up the ceton? Also does anybody know if use this with mythtv oar sagetv?
post #164 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeydrunk View Post
Where's the cheapest place to pick up the ceton? Also does anybody know if use this with mythtv oar sagetv?
Check out this thread:

http://www.missingremote.com/forums/...nitv4-282-ebay

The InfiniTV4 will not work with MythTV. It will only work with SageTV for channels that are flagged as copy freely. You need to install the SageDCT utility along with SageTV V7.0 or later in Windows 7 to use the InfiniTV4 with SageTV.
post #165 of 4754
You make a good point about the current Ceton pricing being promotional and perhaps temporary? I'll wait a month or two and see what the future permanent pricing will be. I can certainly get by with 4 tuners for now but I know I'll need 6 to 8 eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAYER6669 View Post

If you paid full price for the Ceton and sell now, you're going to end up losing some money based on the current pricing. I'm not sure what Ceton plans on doing passed June 30th (end of the instant rebate) with their pricing since HD Homerun Prime is coming out soon after. They will surely have to do something to compete? Don't forget the Homerun Prime 6 tuner will also require you to have a two cable cards, and two coax connections which is rather inconvenient IMO.

With the Ceton, I think (and I could be wrong here) you can only assign the tuners manually to each specific HTPC like you mentioned, I'm not sure if the HD Homerun has this capability since its connected through the network. You might be better off waiting it out for Ceton to release their 6 tuner version so you will only need one cablecard/coax connection, but who knows when that will be and pricing. My guess is if their MSRP remains $399 on the 4 tuner, then the 6 tuner will run $599.
post #166 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

The Prime will be able to do this. Waiting for CableLabs approval on this was probably one of the things that held up the Prime's release date.

Thanks for the info Vladd. This definitely raises the stock price of the HDHRP relative to my near-term needs.
post #167 of 4754
Just for reference, this was posted by Jason from Silicondust:

Quote:


Each tuner can be used by one PC at a time. The tuners are not tied to a specific PC when they are not in use, so you could have 5 PCs and the 3 tuners in the HDHomeRun PRIME, and any 3 of the PCs could be watching live TV at the same time.

http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9494
post #168 of 4754
Ceton would be crazy to raise their price back to $399. Once the promo runs out then the regular price will be $299.
post #169 of 4754
I'm interested in someone grabbing hold of one, though, because unless my math is super shaky, supporting 6 feeds out would basically necessitate gigabit connectivity from the SiliconDust to be reliable if multiple HTPCs were to touch it
post #170 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmservo View Post

I'm interested in someone grabbing hold of one, though, because unless my math is super shaky, supporting 6 feeds out would basically necessitate gigabit connectivity from the SiliconDust to be reliable if multiple HTPCs were to touch it

That's why it has gigabit ports (2x) and they recommend using a GigE connection.
post #171 of 4754
Also remember that it only has to support 3 feeds out. The 6-tuner version is a dual 3-tuner in one case: 2 coax connections and 2 network connections.
post #172 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

Also remember that it only has to support 3 feeds out. The 6-tuner version is a dual 3-tuner in one case: 2 coax connections and 2 network connections.

The GigE requirement for the 6 tuner version would come into play on the HTPC's LAN connection if multiple tuners were being used since it would only have a single LAN port.
post #173 of 4754
You're HTPC only has a single LAN port???

Seriously though, yeah, I didn't think about that. I also completely missed the "(2x)" in your post above.
post #174 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

Just for reference, this was posted by Jason from Silicondust:


http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9494

I read this thread and as a result I'm not sure the HDHRP can do what I want after all. Jason specifically stated that tuner allocation between multiple PCs will be done dynamically, and that said allocation will happen on a first come-first serve basis. Thus, as an example if I only had a 3 tuner HDHRP to feed three PCs, and one user decided to watch one show and record two others simultaneously (which I do on occasion), the other two PCs would not have access to any tuner until at least one of them was released by the user tasking all three of them.

There's nothing wrong with dynamic tuner allocation per-se, but it would be nice to be able to define the maximum number of tuners a individual PC could tap simultaneously.
post #175 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post


Check out this thread:

http://www.missingremote.com/forums/...nitv4-282-ebay

The InfiniTV4 will not work with MythTV. It will only work with SageTV for channels that are flagged as copy freely. You need to install the SageDCT utility along with SageTV V7.0 or later in Windows 7 to use the InfiniTV4 with SageTV.

Thanks, man I can't believe that, I can get it for $268 shipped.
post #176 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post

I read this thread and as a result I'm not sure the HDHRP can do what I want after all. Jason specifically stated that tuner allocation between multiple PCs will be done dynamically, and that said allocation will happen on a first come-first serve basis. Thus, as an example if I only had a 3 tuner HDHRP to feed three PCs, and one user decided to watch one show and record two others simultaneously (which I do on occasion), the other two PCs would not have access to any tuner until at least one of them was released by the user tasking all three of them.

There's nothing wrong with dynamic tuner allocation per-se, but it would be nice to be able to define the maximum number of tuners a individual PC could tap simultaneously.

When you do tuner set up in MC you don't have choose all available tuners, for the above mentioned you could just setup 1 or 2 of the 3 available tuners.
post #177 of 4754
I am running a Gigabyte h67a-ud3h-b3, i5 2500k with 8gb RAM and a c300 64gb SSD/ 2TB WD green combo, and I have similar problems watching HBO, etc. It takes longer for the stutter to manifest, given the greater amount of RAM, but I get the same stutter, and it will ultimately end up crashing WMC. Re-enabling the page-file makes "getting through" an entire episode of Game of Thrones feasible, but there are frame drop-outs still. Streaming the same exact episode to an Xbox from that machine is seamless and stutter free.

I'm pulling my hair out, because I wanted to replace a 3 DVR DirecTV system, but the wife will have none of it at this point. I'll try a complete rebuild after GoT has run its 1st season course - and we've watched them all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAYER6669 View Post

Just curious how much RAM everyone has in their HTPCs with a Ceton Card? I'm having some performance issues here. I have 4GB of ram and when I open WMC and watch any premium channels (hbo/cinemax etc.), the used memory creeps up to high 90s/100% within a few minutes and then I start getting stuttering issues on the picture/sound. If I press stop on live TV the memory is still used until I close WMC and then its freed. Any ideas?
post #178 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevbrad66 View Post

I am running a Gigabyte h67a-ud3h-b3, i5 2500k with 8gb RAM and a c300 64gb SSD/ 2TB WD green combo, and I have similar problems watching HBO, etc. It takes longer for the stutter to manifest, given the greater amount of RAM, but I get the same stutter, and it will ultimately end up crashing WMC. Re-enabling the page-file makes "getting through" an entire episode of Game of Thrones feasible, but there are frame drop-outs still. Streaming the same exact episode to an Xbox from that machine is seamless and stutter free.

I'm pulling my hair out, because I wanted to replace a 3 DVR DirecTV system, but the wife will have none of it at this point. I'll try a complete rebuild after GoT has run its 1st season course - and we've watched them all.

Ouch, well that doesn't inspire much hope. I also had WMC crash once the memory hits 100%. I figured maybe it was just because those channels maybe needed a bit more ram and what's another $40 for another 4gb after all I've spent at this point. I certinly can't blame your wife, its pretty unacceptable to have to deal with that potential issue every time you want to sit down and watch your shows. What would you do differently on the next build though? You already have the i5 + 8 gb ram which should be more then sufficient for watching TV. Something else must be going on here.
post #179 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAYER6669 View Post

Ouch, well that doesn't inspire much hope. I also had WMC crash once the memory hits 100%. I figured maybe it was just because those channels maybe needed a bit more ram and what's another $40 for another 4gb after all I've spent at this point. I certinly can't blame your wife, its pretty unacceptable to have to deal with that potential issue every time you want to sit down and watch your shows. What would you do differently on the next build though? You already have the i5 + 8 gb ram which should be more then sufficient for watching TV. Something else must be going on here.

weird, did you guys contact ceton? See none of this stuttering and i only have 3gb of ram available as i'm running win 7 32 bit.
post #180 of 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemyram4x4 View Post

When you do tuner set up in MC you don't have choose all available tuners, for the above mentioned you could just setup 1 or 2 of the 3 available tuners.

Hmm... I'm not sure. Though I've gone through set up twice with my Ceton (once due to major hardware change, the second due to CC failure), I recall that MC conveyed the number of tuners it found, but I can't recall if setup offered an option to only use a subset of the four tuners available.

If I remember the article I recently read on Ceton streaming correctly, it will allow specific tuner assignment per client PC, so at least I know this option exists. I was just wondering if the HDHRP can do the same thing. I've posted the question within Silicondust's forum so hopefully I'll know one way or the other soon.
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